Dell drops Ubuntu PCs from website...

[HappinessNow]

Dell has stopped selling consumer PCs preloaded with Ubuntu from its website, and doesn't know when they're coming back.PCPRO Article (http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/359740/dell-drops-ubuntu-pcs-from-website-for-now)

[Excedio]

Just saw this on /.

How lame. But lets be honest with ourselves...they never really put a lot of effort in to trying to sell their Ubuntu based lappys.

[HappinessNow]

Just saw this on /.

How lame. But lets be honest with ourselves...they never really put a lot of effort in to trying to sell their Ubuntu based lappys. Exactly, let's hope they are more enthusiastic with Chrome OS

[Excedio]

Exactly, let's hope they are more enthusiastic with Chrome OS
Oh i'm sure they will be. Because it says Google on it.

[Shining Arcanine]

Just saw this on /.

How lame. But lets be honest with ourselves...they never really put a lot of effort in to trying to sell their Ubuntu based lappys.

With Dell's marketshare, even selling Ubuntu on 1% of its systems would have been enough to give Ubuntu Linux a significant market advantage over other Linux distributions. Considering that Ubuntu Linux gained a considerable amount of marketshare after Dell announced it would sell systems with it, I think the marketshare Ubuntu Linux has today is mostly thanks to Dell. Ubuntu Linux and more owes a great deal to Dell, because it would not have had the third party support it does have had without Dell's assistance.

[cprofitt]

http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?oc=dncwzl1&c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19

US site still has Ubuntu laptops.

[Shining Arcanine]

http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?oc=dncwzl1&c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19

US site still has Ubuntu laptops.

Sadly in the USA, Dell does not give offer Ubuntu on as many system as Dell offers Windows.

Edit: Dell is charging $210 for "Ubuntu Version 9.10 with 1 year of Standard Support". Why do they charge so much?

[cprofitt]

Edit: Dell is charging $210 for "Ubuntu Version 9.10 with 1 year of Standard Support". Why do they charge so much?

What does Canonical charge for support?

From what I found it is $218 for one year of support. I would imagine Dell is offering it for a bit less due to a deal with Canonical.

[neu5eeCh]

//Edit: Dell is charging $210 for "Ubuntu Version 9.10 with 1 year of Standard Support". Why do they charge so much? //

This is something I pointed out in a post a month or two ago. DELL was giving zero (or minimal) price point advantage to Ubuntu users and no, they can't justify it though support. They only offered support on the hardware, not Ubuntu. Other members found rationalizations for the pricing, but I never bought the explanations.

DELL was never in it for the love of Ubuntu. They saw an opportunity to pocket your cash by charging the same for an Ubuntu laptop as a Windows laptop. Why should anyone buy an Ubuntu laptop from DELL when, for the same price, they can get a Windows laptop? It's absurd. I use Linux 100%, now, but I sure as heck wouldn't buy an Ubuntu laptop from DELL.

If I'm going to pay the same price, or if the difference is excessively minimal, I'll buy the laptop with Windows and install Ubuntu myself. In the future, I would advise Canonical to offer Dual Boot systems with, perhaps, a version of GRUB specifically designed for the seller (in other words, not a text screen from 1983). Just get Ubuntu in the hands of users. Let *them* decide.

[earthpigg]

http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?oc=dncwzl1&c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19

US site still has Ubuntu laptops.

would someone care to reconcile those two blue boxes i added with the two red boxes in the attached screenshot of that website?

<-- isn't sure if he is or is not going insane


EDIT:

and, clicking around, i see nowhere that they actually discuss what their support entails.

do customers of the 'standard support' get an ubuntu ninja on-call for telephonic support from 9-5 monday through friday?

is 'support' just another word for 'hardware warranty'?

i am confused as hell. who is in charge of Dell's Ubuntu stuff anyways?

[pwnst*r]

You should feel lucky that they even offered to sell an Ubuntu system.

[neu5eeCh]

You should feel lucky that they even offered to sell an Ubuntu system.

Who says "they offered"?

Who approached who? I would want to know exactly what kind of contract they signed with Canonical before making assertions like that.

[Shining Arcanine]

Who says "they offered"?

Who approached who? I would want to know exactly what kind of contract they signed with Canonical before making assertions like that.

They offered Ubuntu Linux systems to their customers. That much is a fact. Whether or not they offered Canonical a special partnership is irrelevant from the perspective of their customers.

[pwnst*r]

They offered Ubuntu Linux systems to their customers. That much is a fact. Whether or not they offered Canonical a special partnership is irrelevant from the perspective of their customers.

Exactly my point, thanks.

[kamaboko]

Where is the petition post? You know the one's we see every few weeks or so. "I say we petition (insert company name) to insist they sell Ubuntu with their PC's". In this case, it'll be something like, "we need to petition Dell to continue selling Ubuntu loaded PC's" followed with the atypical "M$" (dollar sign added) insert to slam Microsoft. I'm sure it's just a few posts away.

[MCVenom]

You should feel lucky that they even offered to sell an Ubuntu system.

Why? I could care less. Dell not offering them wouldn't have made a lick of difference. Who actually bought them? Honestly? Dell could care less about selling them. If they did, they wouldn't have been so crappy at it.

[neu5eeCh]

They offered Ubuntu Linux systems to their customers. That much is a fact. Whether or not they offered Canonical a special partnership is irrelevant from the perspective of their customers.

Its not irrelevant if they charged just as much for Ubuntu as for Windows. What's so "lucky" about that?

[pwnst*r]

Its not irrelevant if they charged just as much for Ubuntu as for Windows. What's so "lucky" about that?

Because regardless of price, customers had a choice.

[betrunkenaffe]

Just want to point out, Dell didn't say they weren't offering Ubuntu laptops anymore. In fact, it's status quo for them, limited to no offerings and continuous statements that they are great.

I prefer to see the other ubuntu laptop selling companies get bigger and get the business.

[neu5eeCh]

Because regardless of price, customers had a choice.

And now they don't? Nonsense.

Customers always had a choice and they still do. There's System76, ZaReason, and others. But if they want a DELL, they can buy a DELL with windows and install Ubuntu later. Instead of getting one OS, they'll get Windows and Ubuntu for the same price. Sounds like a better deal and choice to me.

But this gets back to my original point. I think it would make more sense for companies like DELL to offer Dual Boot systems: Windows and a free Ubuntu. Now that would be a choice and it might expose far more users to Linux. But I doubt MS would ever agree to such an "offer".

[ElSlunko]

Aw man! I'm gonna uninstall Ubuntu now :(.

[Frak]

It simply wasn't an attractive sell. The OS was odd for a grand majority of users, and I can guess there was a large overhead in the amount of returned systems. To make matters worse, there was little to no sponsorship available for the OS to drop prices. Even though you may not like the additional software they ship with the computers, that drops the cost, and there really isn't any commercial company to stick with. Ubuntu computers consistently were valued at the same cost of another Windows computer or higher. Though, Windows actually somewhat makes a profit for Dell. Licensing fees for Windows are incredibly cheap, mixed with the revenue from pre-installed software, most of that is passed down to the customer.

In the end, all you have to do is buy a Dell computer and put Ubuntu on it. You never needed a special computer in the first place. Combine that with Dell pretty much paying off the Windows License with the software revenue, you have a system that costs below an Ubuntu computer with the same performance.

I don't see the problem. There's no tinfoil hat conspiracy with Microsoft or anything. They just stopped advertising them.

[pwnst*r]

And now they don't? Nonsense.

Customers always had a choice and they still do. There's System76, ZaReason, and others. But if they want a DELL, they can buy a DELL with windows and install Ubuntu later. Instead of getting one OS, they'll get Windows and Ubuntu for the same price. Sounds like a better deal and choice to me.

But this gets back to my original point. I think it would make more sense for companies like DELL to offer Dual Boot systems: Windows and a free Ubuntu. Now that would be a choice and it might expose far more users to Linux. But I doubt MS would ever agree to such an "offer".

Nobody outside of nerd land knows about System76, ZaReason or others.

[Simian Man]

It simply wasn't an attractive sell. The OS was odd for a grand majority of users, and I can guess there was a large overhead in the amount of returned systems. To make matters worse, there was little to no sponsorship available for the OS to drop prices. Even though you may not like the additional software they ship with the computers, that drops the cost, and there really isn't any commercial company to stick with. Ubuntu computers consistently were valued at the same cost of another Windows computer or higher. Though, Windows actually somewhat makes a profit for Dell. Licensing fees for Windows are incredibly cheap, mixed with the revenue from pre-installed software, most of that is passed down to the customer.

Exactly.



Nobody outside of nerd land knows about System76, ZaReason or others.

Nobody outside of nerd land knows about Ubuntu either.

[mickie.kext]

Who would thought of this.

They first try to advertise it:
http://www.thevarguy.com/2010/06/10/memo-from-dell-ubuntu-linux-is-safer-than-windows/

Then they had to tone it down
http://www.thevarguy.com/2010/06/17/did-microsoft-pressure-dell-to-change-ubuntu-linux-statement/

Now they dropped Ubuntu, but advertisement still stands (http://www.dell.com/content/topics/segtopic.aspx/ubuntu?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs&~ck=anavml).

Microsoft OEM deals are exclusive. Company have to put "We recommend Windows" banner on their site and strongly support Microsoft if they want to have cheap prices for Windows. If company pushes with competing solution, prices will go up and company goes in red. Margins are thin and profitability of OEMs is dependent on loyalty to Microsoft. (Google Joachim Kempin for details.)

There is no way any Windows OEM can be Linux OEM too, in the long term. Only chance are pure-play ones like System76 and ZaReason. But if they ever put one Windows machine in their product line, expect them to go all Windows in future.

[earthpigg]

But this gets back to my original point. I think it would make more sense for companies like DELL to offer Dual Boot systems: Windows and a free Ubuntu. Now that would be a choice and it might expose far more users to Linux.

I agree completely.


But I doubt MS would ever agree to such an "offer".

I think the key here, then, would be to avoid signing such contracts. OEM Windows is already $50. How much, per system, do Dell and the rest save with whatever additional contractual obligations Microsoft requires? I don't think the OEM Windows EULA itself prohibits dual booting...


Market the dual boot (Win7 64-bit Ultimate and Ubuntu LTS 32-bit) systems as the ultra high-end 'professional' or 'power' systems, then trickle the dual boot option down to mid/low-end systems over time from there.

[Madspyman]

http://www.ubuntu.com/dell

Wonder when this is gonna change.

[mickie.kext]

I think the key here, then, would be to avoid signing such contracts. OEM Windows is already $50.

Umm... where did you get that info? AFAIK, that is top secret information for Microsoft, they never disclose how much they charge to each OEM. Only thing that is certain is that price vary depending on the deal with OEM (depending on volume and amount of "special favors" that OEM will do for Microsoft).

About avoid signing, I don't think it's possible. If OEM wants to have Windows, they must sign. If they don't sign, they don't have right to sell Windows computers and they'll go bust.

[pwnst*r]

Exactly.




Nobody outside of nerd land knows about Ubuntu either.

What's more likely to happen:

Someone that doesn't know about Ubuntu finding some info on Dell's website or System76?

I rest my case.

[Merk42]

What's more likely to happen:

Someone that doesn't know about Ubuntu finding some info on Dell's website or System76?

I rest my case.

I bought this Dell and it doesn't run any of my programs! I want a refund! This Dell is horrible!

See also: The early days of Netbooks

[standingwave]

This is what, three weeks since they took down that web page arguing that Ubuntu was safer than Windows?

Now not only have they dropped Ubuntu from their website, they've launched this page (http://www1.euro.dell.com/content/topics/segtopic.aspx/windows_or_ubuntu?c=uk&cs=ukdhs1&l=en&s=dhs) arguing the pros and cons of each OS. People should choose Windows, argues Dell, if: they are already using Windows, are familiar with Windows, or are new to computers. People should choose Ubuntu if they're interested in open-source programming. Brilliant." (Slashdot)

Is Dell being run by schizophrenics?

[earthpigg]

Umm... where did you get that info? AFAIK, that is top secret information for Microsoft, they never disclose how much they charge to each OEM. Only thing that is certain is that price vary depending on the deal with OEM (depending on volume and amount of "special favors" that OEM will do for Microsoft).

Before win7 came out, you could purchase legitimate copies of Vista listed as "Windows Vista Standard OEM" for $50. I guess the target customer was mom-and-pop computer outfits.

it looks like that has gone by the wayside because I cannot find Win7 OEM.

My assumption has always been that bigger OEMs can sign deals with MS to get it for even cheaper.

[earthpigg]

hrm... i can't even find the $50 OEM Vista.

im gonna dig around amazon and see if they have a "previously purchased" thing.

[Frak]

My assumption has always been that bigger OEMs can sign deals with MS to get it for even cheaper.

I think that's safe to assume. I mean, think about it, if this OEM can sell millions of computers per year, wouldn't you want as many copies going out on those computers as possible? If anything, Microsoft wouldn't want to introduce a hurdle to their largest OEMs, which would affect Microsoft as much as their OEM. I'm thinking Microsoft is trying to hit that sweet spot where the cost of licensing their OS breaks even through the other various revenue streams the OEMs use.

[PC_load_letter]

Just saw this on /.

How lame. But lets be honest with ourselves...they never really put a lot of effort in to trying to sell their Ubuntu based lappys.

Which is something I found a bit intriguing, that is, how come a company can NOT make more $$$ selling computers w/ a free OS? Wouldn't it be more of an opportunity to make even bigger profits than selling PCs w/ *******?

[Dustin2128]

I don't mind if they sell ubuntu on their computers or not- in fact, I think it's somewhat unethical to pre-load an OS on a computer at all, it removes a lot of the choice from the process. Sure I can swap it later, but I personally prefer a fresh install on a blank HDD to a reformatting. The ideal computer store sells OS-less computers with an OS aisle nearby, the computers coming one windows licenses cheaper. In store installs for the less computer literate maybe?

[Frak]

Which is something I found a bit intriguing, that is, how come a company can NOT make more $$$ selling computers w/ a free OS? Wouldn't it be more of an opportunity to make even bigger profits than selling PCs w/ *******?
Again, Dell has a difficult time procuring commercial add-ins that can lessen the cost of the computer and increase profits for Dell. They can't load an Ubuntu system up with various trial suites or utility programs from 3rd party companies, because they don't exist. There are very little or no companies interested in campaigning on the Ubuntu platform.

[mickie.kext]

My assumption has always been that bigger OEMs can sign deals with MS to get it for even cheaper.

I think your assumption is incorrect. Big OEMs can't get Windows CD in store for $50 (if there is any for that price) because EULA quite certanly prohibits that. MS EULAs are very restrictive. Those cheap OEM licenses are designed for computer resellers to put it on "virgin PC" (that is Microsoft's word, and it means usually custom built computer or pre-built one that comes without OS, or with non-Microsoft OS). Only for small shops, so that they don't start selling blank PCs or pirate.

Every big OEM must negotiate contract with Microsoft directly. Buying CDs in store would be same as pirating. When they deal with Microsoft, per copy price can be higher or lower than cheapest price for other people. Depending on their loyalty to Microsoft.

[Madspyman]

Dells Ubuntu site seems to be back now, just with a different 6.

http://www.dell.com/ubuntu

[Shining Arcanine]

Why? I could care less. Dell not offering them wouldn't have made a lick of difference. Who actually bought them? Honestly? Dell could care less about selling them. If they did, they wouldn't have been so crappy at it.

Three things:


"lick of difference" and "crappy" are not proper English.
Without Dell, it is quite likely that >90% of Ubuntu Linux users would never have heard of Ubuntu Linux to be using it today. How many people here even heard about Ubuntu Linux before Dell announced that they were going to sell systems preloaded with it? It is a mistake to underestimate the publicity that even minimal support from a major OEM provides to an operating system.
There are plenty of students at my university using Dell laptops that were preloaded with Ubuntu Linux. People do buy them.

[Merk42]

Three things:


Without Dell, it is quite likely that >90% of Ubuntu Linux users would never have heard of Ubuntu Linux to be using it today. How many people here even heard about Ubuntu Linux before Dell announced that they were going to sell systems preloaded with it? It is a mistake to underestimate the publicity that even minimal support from a major OEM provides to an operating system.
What publicity? Some news article from years ago when it first started? The sort of people that would have read it would already knows about Ubuntu anyway.
I never saw any TV or billboard advertisements for Ubuntu running Dell hardware, and the only way you'd find them on Dell's site is if you were deliberately looking for them in the first place

[inobe]

lets understand the basics before we veer off in some direction.


"why" doesn't dell promote these laptops as they should ?

should have been the title.

[MCVenom]

Three things:


"lick of difference" and "crappy" are not proper English.
Without Dell, it is quite likely that >90% of Ubuntu Linux users would never have heard of Ubuntu Linux to be using it today. How many people here even heard about Ubuntu Linux before Dell announced that they were going to sell systems preloaded with it? It is a mistake to underestimate the publicity that even minimal support from a major OEM provides to an operating system.
There are plenty of students at my university using Dell laptops that were preloaded with Ubuntu Linux. People do buy them.

1. Yes, and? They're known expressions among speakers of American English. Now, if you're British, go ahead and use your flowery British phrases. I think I'll be smart enough to understand what you're saying. :P
2. Lost all credibility with that ridiculous statement.
3. And had the Dell option not been available, they would've bought from someone else. Dell didn't sell *nearly* as much as you *think* they did, considering you have said that over 10 million people would have never heard of Ubuntu without it.

Seriously, I can't believe I responded to that. Ugh.

[Dustin2128]

Ask around, and I'm sure that you'll find almost nobody on this forum who got into linux from dell offering it pre-installed on old computers with weak hardware for a greater cost than windows machines with better hardware. I, a free software fanatic, wouldn't take that deal.

[inobe]

we seem to always discuss "they did this, they did that" but never why !

[earthpigg]

we seem to always discuss "they did this, they did that" but never why !

Indeed. My best guess is that their Linux support from week-to-week is contingent on someone's performance in a weekly game of dice.

[kamaboko]

Three things:


"lick of difference" and "crappy" are not proper English.
Without Dell, it is quite likely that >90% of Ubuntu Linux users would never have heard of Ubuntu Linux to be using it today. How many people here even heard about Ubuntu Linux before Dell announced that they were going to sell systems preloaded with it? It is a mistake to underestimate the publicity that even minimal support from a major OEM provides to an operating system.
There are plenty of students at my university using Dell laptops that were preloaded with Ubuntu Linux. People do buy them.


Thanks, point number two made me chuckle. I needed that today.

[inobe]

Indeed. My best guess is that their Linux support from week-to-week is contingent on someone's performance in a weekly game of dice.

good point

[Khakilang]

Over in Malaysia. Dell don't even offer Ubuntu at all and even worst you can't take away Window during the acerssories selection or customize your computer when you buy on line. That mean you can't buy a Dell laptop or PC without Window install. How silly!

[prodigy_]

Without Dell, it is quite likely that >90% of Ubuntu Linux users would never have heard of Ubuntu Linux to be using it today.
Working for Dell PR dept, aren't you?

---

I think it's good news overall. Ubuntu is better off without such "partners" as Dell.

[Frak]

we seem to always discuss "they did this, they did that" but never why !
I did, plenty of times.

[KiwiNZ]

Working for Dell PR dept, aren't you?

---

I think it's good news overall. Ubuntu is better off without such "partners" as Dell.

DELL

IS

STILL

A

PARTNER

and we need such partners, as we do not exactly have them queueing up at the door.

[ikt]

DELL

IS

STILL

A

PARTNER

and we need such partners, as we do not exactly have them queueing up at the door.

Exactly, has there been an official statement from canonical?

[CharlesA]

Three things:

Without Dell, it is quite likely that >90% of Ubuntu Linux users would never have heard of Ubuntu Linux to be using it today. How many people here even heard about Ubuntu Linux before Dell announced that they were going to sell systems preloaded with it? It is a mistake to underestimate the publicity that even minimal support from a major OEM provides to an operating system.


*raises hand*

I heard of Ubuntu long before I heard about Dell selling machines with it installed.

[jaezcurra]

I am in Spain and I had no problem buying several Dell Optiplex 380 with no OS for my company 4 months ago. They were around 40 € cheaper than the preloaded Windows ones.

BTW, I bought a Dell Optiplex 980 for me with no OS, of course.

[Shining Arcanine]

What publicity? Some news article from years ago when it first started? The sort of people that would have read it would already knows about Ubuntu anyway.
I never saw any TV or billboard advertisements for Ubuntu running Dell hardware, and the only way you'd find them on Dell's site is if you were deliberately looking for them in the first place

There are 300+ Linux Distributions, yet most people have only heard about one to two dozen at most. It is unlikely that people knew about Ubuntu Linux back then and even if they did, they had no reason to try it. An insignificant percentage of the Linux community used Ubuntu Linux back then. The publicity from Dell changed that.

[Merk42]

Exactly, has there been an official statement from canonical?*NOT A REAL STATEMENT*
"Dell is continuing its commitment to selling Ubuntu Systems as an alternative to it Windows Systems, much like the pornography section of a movie store; tucked away and hidden and you have to ask about it first."


There are 300+ Linux Distributions, yet most people have only heard about one to two dozen at most. It is unlikely that people knew about Ubuntu Linux back then and even if they did, they had no reason to try it. An insignificant percentage of the Linux community used Ubuntu Linux back then. The publicity from Dell changed that.I'll ask again

What publicity?

[dmn_clown]

What's funny about this is that you could purchase a Dell with Red Hat installed long before the much hyped deal with Canonical.

[ronnielsen1]

I'll ask again

What publicity?

The one in the

pornography section of a movie store; tucked away and hidden and you have to ask about it first."


The best advert for Ubuntu you probably never saw (http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/07/best-advert-for-ubuntu-you-probably.html)


http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/07/best-advert-for-ubuntu-you-probably.html

[Madspyman]

DELL

IS

STILL

A

PARTNER

and we need such partners, as we do not exactly have them queueing up at the door.

Exactly, I'm gonna quote myself from earlier in the thread.


http://www.ubuntu.com/dell

[jrusso2]

It is useless for Ubuntu to try to compete on the desktop with Windows. Its only in competition with other linux and bought by Linux users.

[collinp]

Just as general information:

After doing some searching around Dell's website, I found that one of their Studio XPS desktops still supports ordering with Ubuntu.

(look under the "Also Includes" section)

[Merk42]

It is useless for Ubuntu to try to compete on the desktop with Windows. Its only in competition with other linux and bought by Linux users.Hell, I think even Apple has realized this. Haven't you noticed the "I'm a Mac" commercials no longer exist and it's all iPhone/iPad?

[cprofitt]

Yet Microsoft's market share is down... I certainly think that Linux can compete against both Windows and OS X; perhaps a bit better against OS X due to the high premium placed on Apple Hardware.

[prodigy_]

and we need such partners
Good thing that I'm not working for Canonical and therefore entitled to my own opinion.

[betrunkenaffe]

Good thing that I'm not working for Canonical and therefore entitled to my own opinion.

Wow, just wow. Perhaps we can move onto more enlightened replies and less childish?


That ad was good imo but have never see it so would like to know WHERE it was shown/available.

[Frak]

Yet Microsoft's market share is down... I certainly think that Linux can compete against both Windows and OS X; perhaps a bit better against OS X due to the high premium placed on Apple Hardware.
Numbers fluctuate. Unless it goes above or below ~10%, it's not really a notable statistic.

[cloyd]

Nobody outside of nerd land knows about System76, ZaReason or others.


People have told me what I am . . . I've been accused of it since I was a kid. I have been in denial. Now I know. At last! I really am a nerd! To admit it brings such freedom!

[Clever_Username]

Did anyone hear about Dell dropping Ubuntu as a choice of OS from their website? What gives?
As a recently liberated Windows user, I was curious about how the Linux veterans might feel about this. It's my understanding you can still order Ubuntu as your OS when you place a phone order.

Here is the link (http://linux.slashdot.org/story/10/07/24/0241204/Dell-Drops-Ubuntu-PCs-From-Its-Website?from=rss) for those interested

[fatality_uk]

There's another thread here already!

[HappinessNow]

Hell, I think even Apple has realized this. Haven't you noticed the "I'm a Mac" commercials no longer exist and it's all iPhone/iPad?Nah, Apple is just too busy dumping all their profits into AntennaGate rebuttal videos, not too elegant but very entertaining to see such a company make clowns out of themselves.

[prodigy_]

It is useless for Ubuntu to try to compete on the desktop with Windows. Its only in competition with other linux and bought by Linux users.
It's far from useless because today Linux desktop is just a little bit annoying while 10 years ago it was completely unusable. Looks like a pretty big step forward to me.

And without desktop Linux there wouldn't be Linux users at all, so your statements don't even make sense.

[bigseb]

Not really a huge fan of Dell...

[Clever_Username]

Because regardless of price, customers had a choice.


Exactly

[KiwiNZ]

It's far from useless because today Linux desktop is just a little bit annoying while 10 years ago it was completely unusable. Looks like a pretty big step forward to me.

And without desktop Linux there wouldn't be Linux users at all, so your statements don't even make sense.

This statement makes little sense given that largest usage of Linux is in the Server market.

[98cwitr]

im kinda glad...I didn't want Ubuntu Desktop going all commercial anyway....

[McRat]

I'm solidly Black Helicopter on this one. Shortly after Dell's "Linux is Safer" webpage MS got pissy and Dell pulled it down.

It makes you wonder what the "full conversation" was about Dell selling Linux.

TigerDirect, NewEgg, and other clone houses don't market Linux capability in their datasheets or product offering, although if you read product reviews a stunning amount of Linux users are present. But MS has several tiers of OEM wholesalers, and it is not wise to anger MS unless your tier level is dead bottom with no hope of discounts.

HP is the largest computer maker and they make some really specialized machines for desktops. You can custom order pretty much anything BUT the brand of OS. Coincidence? Perhaps.

There is no conspiracy necessary to accept the following two points though:


Microsoft actively pursues holding a monopoly on desktop operating systems. MS has historically used it's knowledge and saturation of Windows to resist competition.

OS X and Linux are increasing % every year.

[KiwiNZ]

I love it when decision like this are made, 30,000 conspiracies erupt ignoring the obvious.

1. Dell still offers Ubuntu
2. The decision made purely on Fiscal reasons. If a product does not sell well in the front window
it gets moved.
3.Dell STILL offers Ubuntu.
4. Ubuntu has not been a blazing sales success story for Dell. It is not surprising they have moved it to "by request"
5. This is now similar to have other OEM's offer Linux.
6. Dell STILL offers Ubuntu

[P4man]

I recall Dell saying several times ubuntu represents 1/3 of its sales on some netbooks like the mini 10. That is pretty huge. If the real reason for this move is lack of sales; then i would expect ubuntu to remain available from Dells website for netbooks if nothing else. If not, I concur with the above poster blaming MS.

[collinp]

I love it when decision like this are made, 30,000 conspiracies erupt ignoring the obvious.
Off-topic, I read "I love it when" and automatically completed it as "a plan comes together" (A-Team reference).

[t0p]

I'm not a Dell customer - I very rarely buy new computers of any sort - but this thread piqued my interest, so a did a little experiment.

I visited www.dell.co.uk (I'm a Brit), and the front page made no mention of Ubuntu or Linux at all. Not even a little Tux.

I used the site's search function to search for "ubuntu" and got a list of products (http://search.euro.dell.com/results.aspx?s=gen&c=uk&l=en&cs=&k=ubuntu&cat=all&x=8&y=7) whose descriptions didn't mention Ubuntu. Odd, I thought. I clicked on the first of these results and was taken to this page (http://www1.euro.dell.com/content/products/features.aspx/4x_latit_2100?c=uk&cs=ukbsdt1&l=en&s=bsd) for the Dell Latitude 2100 Netbook. I scrolled down to the bottom of the page and found options for Ubuntu 9.04 and 9.10.

I didn't bother going through the motions of ordering a Latitude 2100 with Ubuntu installed, and I didn't look at the other search results. But Dell certainly seem to be dealing in Ubuntu, even if they're not actively pushing it.

I'd like to know why they're not pushing Ubuntu at all - there's certainly space on the front page for an Ubuntu logo or Tux or something of the sort for curious users to click on. I'm tempted to wonder if Microsoft have said something; but I don't want to be fitted for a tinfoil hat thank you very much.

[Yes]

I imagine they're not pushing it at all is because if you've heard about Linux you'll know to look for it, and if you haven't they don't want you accidentally buying a different operating system that what you're used to.

Also I think they get paid for putting on all the free trial crap that comes with the computer, and so that's money they're not making when selling computers with Linux preinstalled.

[ve3tru]

"Customers always had a choice and they still do. There's System76, ZaReason, and others." Sorry but the customer never had a choice, and still don't, the laptop I'm on is almost half the price of the ones on those sites (with windows 7 pre-installed). Big box stores buy in such bulk that they pay next to nothing for the hardware. They also get special deals from Microsoft. When they tell you to sell those Linux boxes for the same price or we cut you off. With microsoft being 99.999 percent of your business, and you really don't want to go bankrupt this year, you tend to listen to them.

[betrunkenaffe]

"Customers always had a choice and they still do. There's System76, ZaReason, and others." Sorry but the customer never had a choice, and still don't, the laptop I'm on is almost half the price of the ones on those sites (with windows 7 pre-installed). Big box stores buy in such bulk that they pay next to nothing for the hardware. They also get special deals from Microsoft. When they tell you to sell those Linux boxes for the same price or we cut you off. With microsoft being 99.999 percent of your business, and you really don't want to go bankrupt this year, you tend to listen to them.

Let us know when the hardware fails.

[Yes]

What makes you think you don't have a choice? You can either pay more to get hardware you know will work with Linux, or you can pay less and just install Linux either alongside or overtop Windows when you get it. I don't see where you're being denied any choice.

[Frak]

I'm solidly Black Helicopter on this one. Shortly after Dell's "Linux is Safer" webpage MS got pissy and Dell pulled it down.

It makes you wonder what the "full conversation" was about Dell selling Linux.

TigerDirect, NewEgg, and other clone houses don't market Linux capability in their datasheets or product offering, although if you read product reviews a stunning amount of Linux users are present. But MS has several tiers of OEM wholesalers, and it is not wise to anger MS unless your tier level is dead bottom with no hope of discounts.

HP is the largest computer maker and they make some really specialized machines for desktops. You can custom order pretty much anything BUT the brand of OS. Coincidence? Perhaps.

There is no conspiracy necessary to accept the following two points though:


Microsoft actively pursues holding a monopoly on desktop operating systems. MS has historically used it's knowledge and saturation of Windows to resist competition.

OS X and Linux are increasing % every year.

So far, learning from Dell, I can bet a lot of OEMs see Ubuntu, and Linux in general marketed toward the desktop base, as a money hole. Dell saw staggering returns and repair requests through Ubuntu, hence why they stopped advertising it directly when they first started marketing it. I have no doubt that Michael Dell (the founder of Dell) was the one that pressured the company into marketing Ubuntu, as he's an Ubuntu user himself.

I can almost assure you that Dell isn't doing this for profit. Any sane company would have pulled out of Linux immediately after the bounce rate exploded.

[Frak]

What makes you think you don't have a choice? You can either pay more to get hardware you know will work with Linux, or you can pay less and just install Linux either alongside or overtop Windows when you get it. I don't see where you're being denied any choice.
This is absolutely the point I've been trying to make. Dell and HP aren't trying to "force you to the dark side of Microsoft *maniacal laugh*", else they would have done something to actively prevent that. You can't say warranty, because that ensures that you use the computer the way you received it (and Ubuntu Dell machines support Ubuntu through the warranty).

[prodigy_]

This statement makes little sense given that largest usage of Linux is in the Server market.
Those who directly deal with Linux in Server market aren't usually called "users", so, yes, my statement makes perfect sense.

[Frak]

Those who directly deal with Linux in Server market aren't usually called "users", so, yes, my statement makes perfect sense.
I know plenty of people who deal with Linux Servers and run Linux on their own personal servers. I don't see how you couldn't call them Linux users.

[JustinR]

There still selling Ubuntu, currently there preparing the Ubuntu 10.04 release for new laptops. So everybody can shut up now.:p (Just kidding)

But seriously:

http://www.dell.com/content/topics/segtopic.aspx/ubuntu?c=us&l=en&cs=19



Beginning with Ubuntu 10.04, available on Dell systems this summer, boot times have improved dramatically over Ubuntu 9.10. Depending upon the Dell computer your purchase, boot times can be around 30 seconds!

[earthpigg]

from t0p's post (http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=9640536&postcount=81), above.

-locate the dell latitude 2100 netbook
-click 'select' -> 'customize'
-see Ubuntu as the default option
-hit 'help me choose'


Your choice of an operating system (OS) is one of the most important decisions you’ll make when purchasing a new computer. The OS is the software program that runs all the other applications on your computer. The OS also enables communication between your computer and peripherals such as printers, webcams and external drives.

Dell currently offers a choice of Ubuntu or Microsoft® operating systems on the Latitude 2100. Generally, if you currently run Microsoft applications on your computer, you will need to run a Microsoft OS to continue using those applications.

On the other hand, Ubuntu is a Linux-based OS that is highly customizable and sophisticated. Ubuntu is open source, meaning the source code is available for public use and modification. If you’re familiar with open-source programs or plan to use your Latitude 2100 primarily for Web access, Ubuntu might be a good option for you.

Which should you choose?

You might prefer Ubuntu if:

* Your Latitude 2100 will primarily be used for mobile Web access or you are an advanced computer user interested in open source programming.
* You don’t plan on using Microsoft software applications.
* You are open to learning Ubuntu email, word processing and spreadsheet applications.

That's actually a very fair assessment.

[prodigy_]

I don't see how you couldn't call them Linux users.
Maybe because, as a matter of fact, they are Linux administrators? ;-)

[saulgoode]

DELL

IS

STILL

A

PARTNER

If Dell and Canonical are partners, why isn't Canonical listed as a Dell partner (http://content.dell.com/us/en/enterprise/vsl-more-partners.aspx), or Dell listed as a Canonical partner (http://webapps.ubuntu.com/partners/solution/)?

[Frak]

Maybe because, as a matter of fact, they are Linux administrators? ;-)
They use Linux, therefore they are a user.

[MasterNetra]

This is isn't correct apparently Dell says it isn't dropping ubuntu.

http://www.itworld.com/open-source/115316/calm-down-dell-not-throwing-ubuntu-linux-out

[Frak]

This is isn't correct apparently Dell says it isn't dropping ubuntu.

http://www.itworld.com/open-source/115316/calm-down-dell-not-throwing-ubuntu-linux-out
I saw that, read the headline, and then saw SJVN's headline photo, and...

Well, I just can't take SJVN seriously anymore. He may be right, but I always feel like I should keep a gun under my pillow (if ya know what I'm sayin').

[MasterNetra]

I saw that, read the headline, and then saw SJVN's headline photo, and...

Well, I just can't take SJVN seriously anymore. He may be right, but I always feel like I should keep a gun under my pillow (if ya know what I'm sayin').

Well apparently if they still have at least one machine with Ubuntu on the UK site then apparently its not dropped.

[aysiu]

Well apparently if they still have at least one machine with Ubuntu on the UK site then apparently its not dropped. Yes, that would be the case. If you have one of anything, you haven't totally dropped it.

[Frak]

Well apparently if they still have at least one machine with Ubuntu on the UK site then apparently its not dropped.
I don't recall anybody ever saying they dropped it. It's really just an issue of people being mad that Dell isn't advertising Ubuntu as hard.

[P4man]

Sounds a lot like when dell and HP removed AMD based PCs and laptops from their websites or hid them somewhere no one could find them because of a *cough* lack of consumer demand - which later turned out to be a few billion dollar intel paid. A fraud Dell recently settled with some pocket change:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/07/26/after_the_dell_settlement/

[Frak]

Sounds a lot like when dell and HP removed AMD based PCs and laptops from their websites or hid them somewhere no one could find them because of a *cough* lack of consumer demand - which later turned out to be a few billion dollar intel paid. A fraud Dell recently settled with some pocket change:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/07/26/after_the_dell_settlement/
Except I could yell "AMD" in a large crowd and at least one person would know what I'm talking about.

[McRat]

Sounds a lot like when dell and HP removed AMD based PCs and laptops from their websites or hid them somewhere no one could find them because of a *cough* lack of consumer demand - which later turned out to be a few billion dollar intel paid. A fraud Dell recently settled with some pocket change:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/07/26/after_the_dell_settlement/

Are you saying that a #1 chip maker would conspire with a #1 computer maker to thwart competition?:eek:

OK, that I can understand, but I can't imagine Microsoft doing similar tactics to keep Linux out of "their" market, like selling Windows for $12 a seat to stop mfrs from using Linux on netbooks...

I suppose Dell conspiring with Microsoft to keep Linux out of the market is a bit silly, as neither has a history of whoring for market share...:rolleyes:

[Frak]

Are you saying that a #1 chip maker would conspire with a #1 computer maker to thwart competition?:eek:

OK, that I can understand, but I can't imagine Microsoft doing similar tactics to keep Linux out of "their" market, like selling Windows for $12 a seat to stop mfrs from using Linux on netbooks...

I suppose Dell conspiring with Microsoft to keep Linux out of the market is a bit silly, as neither has a history of whoring for market share...:rolleyes:
Thing is, people have been using AMDs for a long time without issue. Microsoft doesn't need to "sabotage" Linux use, Linux does that all by itself.

[McRat]

Thing is, people have been using AMDs for a long time without issue. Microsoft doesn't need to "sabotage" Linux use, Linux does that all by itself.

Microsoft didn't "need" to kill WP or 123 either. Wants and Needs are different.

AMD is barely surviving now. Do you believe the Intel/Dell deal helped or hurt the computer industry?

Is it better to have just one OS and one CPU and one Word Processor and one Spreadsheet?

WinTel for the Win! :D

[RiceMonster]

AMD is barely surviving now.

Source?

[McRat]

Source?

Lots of articles, this one is older, but covers more.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=afV6cq_.JfiM&refer=home

There is no guarantee AMD will be around in 3 years. If they don't start to show a profit soon like Intel is, they won't be able to afford to retool, and will fade away. It cost billions to change masking size. Intel has the money, AMD doesn't.

[Frak]

Lots of articles, this one is older, but covers more.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=afV6cq_.JfiM&refer=home

There is no guarantee AMD will be around in 3 years. If they don't start to show a profit soon like Intel is, they won't be able to afford to retool, and will fade away. It cost billions to change masking size. Intel has the money, AMD doesn't.
Intel has an obligation to keep AMD alive. If AMD goes under, or gets sold to a 3rd party, Intel may lose its 64-bit implementation. AMD is in no trouble.

[KiwiNZ]

AMD's second quarter result was a $43million loss

Q1 was 1 $257 million profit
Q4 2009 was $ 1,178 profit

http://ir.amd.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=74093&p=quarterlyearnings

[McRat]

Intel has an obligation to keep AMD alive. If AMD goes under, or gets sold to a 3rd party, Intel may lose its 64-bit implementation. AMD is in no trouble.

They lost money again this quarter. Another year of that, it will force more sell-offs. Even General Motors can go bankrupt if they don't show profits on sales. AMD has sales, but no profits.

[jerenept]

They lost money again this quarter. Another year of that, it will force more sell-offs. Even General Motors can go bankrupt if they don't show profits on sales. AMD has sales, but no profits.

:( :( :( :(

I like AMD. intel tends to be a bit too expensive for me.

[Frak]

They lost money again this quarter. Another year of that, it will force more sell-offs. Even General Motors can go bankrupt if they don't show profits on sales. AMD has sales, but no profits.
Not garnering a profit doesn't automatically mean AMD is going bankrupt. All companies have dips. It happens.

[blur xc]

http://www.dell.com/content/topics/segtopic.aspx/linux_3x?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs

http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/07/dell-not-dropping-ubuntu-adds-new.html

BM

[P4man]

Q4 2009 was $ 1,178 profit

$1.25B of which was a once in a life time settlement with intel, operationally they made a loss that quarter as well. The only reason AMD is not yet bankrupt is that it has been selling its crown jewels. Its mobile graphics division a few years ago and its fabs fairly recently. It doesnt have much left to sell, yet it has an immense debt to service and is operationally barely or not profitable (despite not so bad technological competitive situation eg in graphics). One small push, like an interest spike and its pretty much toast.

Anyway; this is getting slightly off topic; if it were not for the fact Canonical isnt making profits either and will need to at some point just as well. Moves like this by Dell wont help it reach that any sooner.

[chriswyatt]

Wow! The Studio XPS 7100 n-Series has Ubuntu 10.4! Must be some exclusive Dell-only version of Ubuntu :o

[Frak]

Well then, I wonder who will take over AMD. Intel can't, lest they fall into massive anti-trust lawsuits. I guess Via will be the next AMD. Thus you see why I say AMD won't fail, Intel won't let it. It would be another Microsoft/Apple prop-up.

[Spice Weasel]

Well then, I wonder who will take over AMD. Intel can't, lest they fall into massive anti-trust lawsuits. I guess Via will be the next AMD. Thus you see why I say AMD won't fail, Intel won't let it. It would be another Microsoft/Apple prop-up.

Why is Via succeeding over AMD a bad thing for Intel?

[Frak]

Why is Via succeeding over AMD a bad thing for Intel?
Intel licenses the 64-bit extensions from AMD. Whoever buys AMD gains the rights to those 64-bit extensions. They could deny licensing to whoever they wanted, and if Via wanted to strongarm Intel, they could either raise the fee or deny Intel altogether.

[Spice Weasel]

That makes sense, thanks.

[P4man]

Intel licenses the 64-bit extensions from AMD. Whoever buys AMD gains the rights to those 64-bit extensions.

Wrong. If AMD gets purchased or goes bankrupt; intel automatically obtains all rights to AMD64 immediately and indefinately. Read the (public parts of the) agreement (oh and whoever buys AMD loses all rights to x86). Intel is not that stupid.

[Frak]

Wrong. If AMD gets purchased or goes bankrupt; intel automatically obtains all rights to AMD64 immediately and indefinately. Read the (public parts of the) agreement (oh and whoever buys AMD loses all rights to x86). Intel is not that stupid.
I'm not willing to go find it. If you can pony up the proof on the spot, that'd be great, thanks! This why I can know you're wrong when you can't find it.

[P4man]

I'm not willing to go find it. If you can pony up the proof on the spot, that'd be great, thanks! This why I can know you're wrong when you can't find it.

Thats nice. You have no idea because you never read it and unwilling to; but Im to prove it. anyway; here you go:
http://contracts.corporate.findlaw.com/operations/ip/802.html

Section 6.

[Frak]

Thats nice. You have no idea because you never read it and unwilling to; but Im to prove it. anyway; here you go:
http://contracts.corporate.findlaw.com/operations/ip/802.html

Section 6.
Looks like if any company invests heavy voting shares into the company, that never applies.

Thanks for playing. I know you tried, and for that, here's a cookie.

[P4man]

You read it in less than 4 minutes and you think you know it all now. Read it again, take your time. AMD can not be bought or intel will acquire all the IP covered by the cross licence and the new amd owner will lose it all. Same with bankruptcy. I know its legalese but its not open to discussion in this regard, its quite clear I see no need to quote it here.

[KiwiNZ]

This Thread has wandered way out of the dell into a hinden valley so i guess its time to shut the gate to stop any more lost souls.