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View Full Version : Steve Jobs responds to iPhone 4 antenna issue



Nano Geek
July 16th, 2010, 07:55 PM
At a press confrence this morning, Steve Jobes said that he would give iPhone 4 owners free cases to deal with the antenna issue. Also, anyone who's still disastisfied can return the phone up to 30 days after purchase and get a full refund on the phone and cellular contract.

Seems fair to me. What do you think?

Excedio
July 16th, 2010, 07:57 PM
This is the obvious solution. I really don't know why it took them this long to finally start doing it.

KiwiNZ
July 16th, 2010, 08:02 PM
At least they didn't do a knee jerk solution which they would have been accused of if they offered this 3 weeks ago.

With sales over 3 million to date thats a lot of cases to send out.

bug67
July 16th, 2010, 08:06 PM
I was waiting to have a case in hand before my iP4 purchase anyhow. I'll take the $50.00 Otterbox please, thank you! :P

era86
July 16th, 2010, 09:39 PM
Solution? Feels like a hack. Literal cover up of the actual problem.

MCVenom
July 16th, 2010, 09:41 PM
Solution? Feels like a hack. Literal cover up of the actual problem.
I feel the same way.

Artificial Intelligence
July 16th, 2010, 09:49 PM
They must have know the issue before they send the phone on the market (testing etc.). Why didn't they waited and solved the issue first. Would have saved them a lot of cash, people suing them, plus damaged reputation.

KiwiNZ
July 16th, 2010, 10:07 PM
This is a known issue on other makes as well such as Droids , Nokias. However I think Apple dropped the ball on this one.

An interesting note they have had a 1.7% return rate on the 4G phones compared to a 6% on the 3GS.

fatality_uk
July 16th, 2010, 10:51 PM
Now that Steve Jobs has admitted that they KNEW this was an issue, the "fix" is pathetic. Steve, NOT all smart phones have this problem, trust me. I have had a lot and never had this issue.

Redache
July 16th, 2010, 10:53 PM
I'd also like to point out that it's Steve Jobs not Jobes.

Nano Geek
July 17th, 2010, 01:09 AM
What I get from it is that Apple knew about the problem before release, but thought it wouldn't be a huge deal. When complaints first started coming in, Apple tried to ignore the issue but news reports blew the issue (somewhat) out of proportion. Since they were getting so much bad press, Apple held this press confrence to make people happy.

Finally, they said the deal ends in September which happens to be the time they update the iPod lines. I have a feeling they will come out with a permament fix then.


I'd also like to point out that it's Steve Jobs not Jobes.Yea I know. Typo.

KiwiNZ
July 17th, 2010, 02:33 AM
What I get from it is that Apple knew about the problem before release, but thought it wouldn't be a huge deal. When complaints first started coming in, Apple tried to ignore the issue but news reports blew the issue (somewhat) out of proportion. Since they were getting so much bad press, Apple held this press confrence to make people happy.

Finally, they said the deal ends in September which happens to be the time they update the iPod lines. I have a feeling they will come out with a permament fix then.

Yea I know. Typo.

I have corrected the thread title to appease the spelling purists given that it is such an important thing ;)

SoFl W
July 17th, 2010, 02:36 AM
This has been passed around enough but for those who didn't see it.

Nano Geek
July 17th, 2010, 02:44 AM
I have corrected the thread title to appease the spelling purists given that it is such an important thing ;)Thank you. :)

cyberey66
July 17th, 2010, 07:34 AM
I think it is a good solution. I have a cheap silicone case on mine and I experience no noticeable signal issues, so this 'fix' will work just fine.

If users don't like this solution, they can return the iphone for a full refund if they wish. No one is forced to buy/keep the iphone, so no one should complain anymore.

That aside, I'm waiting for a jailbreak to be released so I can sync in linux :-) That's my only complaint.

McRat
July 17th, 2010, 07:53 AM
I love a parade. Circuses too!

If a consumer product does not work perfect? Welcome to Earth!

If an Apple Product isn't perfect? Hey, we are still on the same planet.

I like Apple products. I like Yamaha products too. I like Chevrolet as well. I like Sony stuff also. But I don't expect perfection. Nothing I own is perfect. It's just like Me. Damn Good, Not Perfect.

PS - Wifey just got the i4. She loves it, it works great. I'll stick with my 3Gs though.

Giant Speck
July 17th, 2010, 11:19 AM
The responses from RIM and Nokia are absolutely brilliant!



Apple's attempt to draw RIM into Apple's self-made debacle is unacceptable. Apple's claims about RIM products appear to be deliberate attempts to distort the public's understanding of an antenna design issue and to deflect attention from Apple's difficult situation. RIM is a global leader in antenna design and has been successfully designing industry-leading wireless data products with efficient and effective radio performance for over 20 years. During that time, RIM has avoided designs like the one Apple used in the iPhone 4 and instead has used innovative designs which reduce the risk for dropped calls, especially in areas of lower coverage. One thing is for certain, RIM's customers don't need to use a case for their BlackBerry smartphone to maintain proper connectivity. Apple clearly made certain design decisions and it should take responsibility for these decisions rather than trying to draw RIM and others into a situation that relates specifically to Apple.




Antenna design is a complex subject and has been a core competence at Nokia for decades, across hundreds of phone models. Nokia was the pioneer in internal antennas; the Nokia 8810, launched in 1998, was the first commercial phone with this feature.

Nokia has invested thousands of man hours in studying human behavior, including how people hold their phones for calls, music playing, web browsing and so on. As you would expect from a company focused on connecting people, we prioritize antenna performance over physical design if they are ever in conflict.

In general, antenna performance of a mobile device/phone may be affected with a tight grip, depending on how the device is held. That's why Nokia designs our phones to ensure acceptable performance in all real life cases, for example when the phone is held in either hand. Nokia has invested thousands of man hours in studying how people hold their phones and allows for this in designs, for example by having antennas both at the top and bottom of the phone and by careful selection of materials and their use in the mechanical design.

zekopeko
July 17th, 2010, 11:20 AM
They must have know the issue before they send the phone on the market (testing etc.). Why didn't they waited and solved the issue first. Would have saved them a lot of cash, people suing them, plus damaged reputation.

Their field testing could have easily failed. Their field testers used cases to hide the iPhone 4 shape so it's more then possible nobody noticed the problem.

Nick_Jinn
July 17th, 2010, 11:22 AM
Solution? Feels like a hack. Literal cover up of the actual problem.

Lol. Very literal coverup of the real problem.


I am starting to like Android better than Iphone personally. I would also go for Palm if their phones had better battery life.

Johnsie
July 17th, 2010, 11:40 AM
All this tells me is that the build quality of the phone ws poor in the first place. I would prefer to have a well built phone like the HTC Desire or the Nexus One. Those phones are really beautiful and well built.

http://www.htc.com/www/product/desire/overview.html

zekopeko
July 17th, 2010, 11:51 AM
All this tells me is that the build quality of the phone ws poor in the first place. I would prefer to have a well built phone like the HTC Desire or the Nexus One. Those phones are really beautiful and well built.

http://www.htc.com/www/product/desire/overview.html

This has nothing to do with the build quality.
If you really want to compare build quality then iPhone 4 wins simply based on the materials it uses, glass and aluminium. Compare that to the HTC product you linked to which has a mix of aluminium and plastic (maybe glass for the screen).

Nick_Jinn
July 17th, 2010, 11:59 AM
A Jeta ( or a Passat) has better engineering than a Ford most of the time, even though Ford is more likely to use more heavy duty materials.

zekopeko
July 17th, 2010, 12:20 PM
A Jeta ( or a Passat) has better engineering than a Ford most of the time, even though Ford is more likely to use more heavy duty materials.

Two completely different products. You are comparing cars to electronic gadgets. My point still stands. Apple has exceptional build quality and engineering. At least when compared to the majority of their competitors.

madnessjack
July 17th, 2010, 12:25 PM
Anyone else think is was a cheap shot dragging other manufacturers into the equation even though these guys have actually done their homework?

EDIT: On the other hand, anyone seen this? http://www.apple.com/antenna/

They seem to be gripping the other phones so hard that guy's hand is visibly shaking

Nick_Jinn
July 17th, 2010, 12:27 PM
Honestly, I do like the look and feel of the Iphone. I tend to be somewhat biased against whoever the 'big guy' happens to be, which is part of what attracted me to linux....but I stay because of all the neat things I can do with it.

I kind of feel like its overhyped though. I prefer the mixture of qwerty and touch to touch only. Just using better materials however doesnt mean that your design is ergonomically sound or that your user interface is great....Apple has good interface actually, though I strongly prefer to have a tactile keyboard.

App wise, I think Android is gaining on Iphone and its a better bang for your buck.....if money isnt an option, I might take an Iphone if it wasnt for having the Edge which is an ereader with Android tablet.

empty_spaces
July 17th, 2010, 02:21 PM
The whole iPhone 4 issue has pretty much been an affirmation of a few reasons that I don't like Apple. Here are some of them.
I may ruffle a few iFeathers here, but I just had to get this off my chest.

1) The "don't hold it that way" attitude. Jobs basically implied that you, the consumer, are an idiot who does not know how to use his cool new toy.

2) Insulting my intelligence by trying to pass this off as a software bug rather than a hardware issue. I don't know how many people fell for that bull***t but it sure pis**d the hell out of me.

3) Listening to Steve Jobs offering the hardware "fix", I could tell from his tone that he wasn't very happy about doing it. I guess he felt that the whole issue was being blown out of proportion and Apple could do no wrong. Justifying the hardware flaw by dragging other smartphone makers into the mud was not very cool. It made him look like a bad, ungracious loser, and he just came off sounding very cocky and full of himself.

That's all for now. I'm sure I'll think of more later.

alexan
July 17th, 2010, 07:09 PM
Anyone else think is was a cheap shot dragging other manufacturers into the equation even though these guys have actually done their homework?

EDIT: On the other hand, anyone seen this? http://www.apple.com/antenna/

They seem to be gripping the other phones so hard that guy's hand is visibly shaking
What I do find amusing is... a whole page that say "this is not a problem.. all smartphone work this way" and then.. at the very end


"...and if you still don't belive us... here the firmware to fix the problem"


this = paradox

McRat
July 17th, 2010, 08:12 PM
On a wider subject, I'm a little PO'd that there are few options for wide-range optional antenna.

With a correct antenna and legal power, a cellphone's range can be doubled or more.

There should be EXT antenna port and an "emergency kit" available.

The emergency kit has a directional antenna and a AA battery power pack.

This would be used for hiking trips, camping, trips to areas with poor coverage for emergency calling. The price added to the phone would be under $2 for an antenna jack, and the emergency kit would sell for about $20-40 depending on antenna.

KiwiNZ
July 17th, 2010, 08:24 PM
On a wider subject, I'm a little PO'd that there are few options for wide-range optional antenna.

With a correct antenna and legal power, a cellphone's range can be doubled or more.

There should be EXT antenna port and an "emergency kit" available.

The emergency kit has a directional antenna and a AA battery power pack.

This would be used for hiking trips, camping, trips to areas with poor coverage for emergency calling. The price added to the phone would be under $2 for an antenna jack, and the emergency kit would sell for about $20-40 depending on antenna.

There are devices made specifically for that purpose that are reliable, work and are monitored. A cellphone was never intended for that type of use.

fatality_uk
July 17th, 2010, 09:24 PM
The story so far feel free to correct me if I am wrong:

1. iPhone 4 stolen/left (Lots of FREE press generated)

2. iPhone 4 released, long queues.

3. iPhone 4 customer report calls dropping

4. Apple say: "Customers, don't hold your phone like that"

5. Apple say: "Guys, it's just the graphics not showing correct bars. We will release a patch that reduces the bars to show correct signal strength"

6. Apple, without correcting previous statments, say there is a problem, but don't worry, ALL phones are the same and everyone can have a piece of rubber to surround your 600 phone to make it work correctly.

On a another note, will Apple supply these rubber surrounds for as long as a user has a phone or is it just one per customer?

McRat
July 17th, 2010, 09:49 PM
There are devices made specifically for that purpose that are reliable, work and are monitored. A cellphone was never intended for that type of use.

Many cellphone models had ext ant jacks. Had.

Kind of like COM ports on computers, they were removed to drop the price $2. There are hundreds of RS232 devices still being made, and there are still areas where cellphone coverage is dismal.

Ever drive through West Texas? The 10 fwy is a major artery in the US going from California to Florida, that is used heavily 24hrs a day. But there are gaps of 100km with no cell coverage with a normal modern cellphone. Sure OnStar calling works there, but not everybody owns a Chevrolet.

If some readers don't know, there are handheld cellphones that have nearly 100% coverage of the globe, they are called Iridiums. The base models are $1300 US, and you don't want to use it as a phone, IIRC it was about $10/min, not sure what it now.

Johnsie
July 17th, 2010, 11:52 PM
I don't care what the apple was made from... It could be made of solid gold for all I care. It was still built badly and didn't work properly. HTC phones may not be made of brittle glass, but at least the their phones work properly and look alot more pretty than the iPhone. HTC is far superior to Apple IMO and I have used both. There's alot more people saying the same. Apple was so last year.

KiwiNZ
July 18th, 2010, 02:08 AM
I don't care what the apple was made from... It could be made of solid gold for all I care. It was still built badly and didn't work properly. HTC phones may not be made of brittle glass, but at least the their phones work properly and look alot more pretty than the iPhone. HTC is far superior to Apple IMO and I have used both. There's alot more people saying the same. Apple was so last year.

Some statements just should not be made :rolleyes:

jerenept
July 18th, 2010, 02:13 AM
Some statements just should not be made :rolleyes:

They incite the worst in some people. (like me sometimes)
EDIT: Sorry. I got a little carried away.

Nano Geek
July 18th, 2010, 04:39 AM
They incite the worst in some sheep. (apple users)I recommend that the words "sheep" and "sheeple" be blocked from all discussion, and anyone who uses them to refer to users of a particular product be instantly banned. ;)

Seriously though, please don't call us (meaning people who like a particular product that you don't) sheep. Frankly it's insulting. Will Android users become "sheep" when it becomes the dominent phone OS?

Nick_Jinn
July 18th, 2010, 06:50 AM
What I do find amusing is... a whole page that say "this is not a problem.. all smartphone work this way" and then.. at the very end


"...and if you still don't belive us... here the firmware to fix the problem"


this = paradox


Maybe he means its not HIS problem, or that his company doesnt have a problem with you having a problem.

Nick_Jinn
July 18th, 2010, 06:53 AM
I recommend that the words "sheep" and "sheeple" be blocked from all discussion, and anyone who uses them to refer to users of a particular product be instantly banned. ;)

Seriously though, please don't call us (meaning people who like a particular product that you don't) sheep. Frankly it's insulting. Will Android users become "sheep" when it becomes the dominent phone OS?


Were not sheep!

http://cicicuit.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/edward-scissorhands-732638.jpg

http://rlv.zcache.com/were_not_sheep_tshirt-p235822418550559503333l_210.jpg

3rdalbum
July 18th, 2010, 08:56 AM
If you define 'smartphone' as 'iphone and nothing else', then yes all smartphones suffer from bad cellular and wifi reception.

chriswyatt
July 18th, 2010, 11:48 AM
Many cellphone models had ext ant jacks. Had.

Kind of like COM ports on computers, they were removed to drop the price $2. There are hundreds of RS232 devices still being made, and there are still areas where cellphone coverage is dismal.

Ever drive through West Texas? The 10 fwy is a major artery in the US going from California to Florida, that is used heavily 24hrs a day. But there are gaps of 100km with no cell coverage with a normal modern cellphone. Sure OnStar calling works there, but not everybody owns a Chevrolet.

If some readers don't know, there are handheld cellphones that have nearly 100% coverage of the globe, they are called Iridiums. The base models are $1300 US, and you don't want to use it as a phone, IIRC it was about $10/min, not sure what it now.

I wanted to get an external antenna for my phone because my reception is so poor in my area. I just expected there to be an accessory online that I could buy but there wasn't, disappointed.

Duncan J Murray
July 18th, 2010, 02:00 PM
Having had a play with a colleagues ip4, I have to say that the engineering was really impressive. However, Apple have no doubt screwed up here on a number of accounts.

1. The antenna. You simply don't get a 20dB signal drop by gently touching a corner of the phone, in any other smartphone/phone I've used. Most phones use plastic to isolate the antenna (but we know steve jobs doesn't like this material).

2. The coverup. First you're not holding the phone properly. Then, oops, it's our fault, we'll fix it in firmware. Then, ok it's a hardware issue, but the new phone is only less than 1pc worse than the 3GS. But they fail to give figures for the previous iphone, and phrase it in a way that doesn't make it sound like they've taken a step back in reception, from a phone that was never stellar at reception in the first place.

3. Then roping blackberry and nokia into it to divert attention.

Having said all of that, this won't matter, and it won't harm the iphone4's sales, because the problem is not a major one, and not one the vast majority of its users will notice. It's still a great phone, if not perfect, and so it will sell fine.

What annoys me is people defending the BS coming from apple, because that's what allows them to do it.

Duncan

fatality_uk
July 18th, 2010, 02:14 PM
Having had a play with a colleagues ip4, I have to say that the engineering was really impressive.

Having a large gap in the case that causes the antenna to short. Fisher Price could engineer a better case!!!

Nano Geek
July 18th, 2010, 02:28 PM
Having a large gap in the case that causes the antenna to short. Fisher Price could engineer a better case!!!It doesn't usually. It only causes a problem in areas that have poor reception.

fatality_uk
July 18th, 2010, 02:41 PM
It doesn't usually. It only causes a problem in areas that have poor reception.

Not true. I have seen an ip4 with full signal in good reception area which loses a call due to the poor case design.

ja660k
July 18th, 2010, 02:49 PM
:)

Nano Geek
July 18th, 2010, 02:53 PM
Not true. I have seen an ip4 with full signal in good reception area which loses a call due to the poor case design.Was that before or after Apple fixed the problem where it gave too many bars?

From everything I've heard, before the fix it would say the reception was better than it really was. And when it completely lost a signal it went down to zero bars.

Everyone I've heard talking about it says it's due to an already low signal strength. I don't deny that the antenna is a poor design, but it's not the colossal error that some are making it out to be.

EDIT: Here's a good article about the problem.
http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/13/yes-the-iphone-4-is-broken-no-the-iphone-4-is-not-broken

Duncan J Murray
July 18th, 2010, 03:16 PM
Having a large gap in the case that causes the antenna to short. Fisher Price could engineer a better case!!!

Yes, obviously apart from that. What I really meant was the actual build/materials/tolerances are really quite impressive - jewel-like. Though one would hope better at making calls than, say, a rolex.

Duncan

McRat
July 18th, 2010, 07:08 PM
The metal is the i4 frame/antenna is semi-magnetic stainless steel. 400 series? would be my first guess, 17-4ph would be my second. Apple said they invented their own alloy. Perhaps. In any case, they needed two antenna lengths to service 3 freqs. Bridge the two, and you reduce the signal.

wojox
July 18th, 2010, 07:12 PM
Can you hear me now?

McRat
July 18th, 2010, 07:20 PM
No I'm not having a beer now...


Hey! NEW game! AppleTalk! One person types in something, then you misunderstand what was said...

phrostbyte
July 21st, 2010, 03:20 AM
If you define 'smartphone' as 'iphone and nothing else', then yes all smartphones suffer from bad cellular and wifi reception.

:lolflag:

Nick_Jinn
July 21st, 2010, 07:28 AM
No I'm not having a beer now...


Hey! NEW game! AppleTalk! One person types in something, then you misunderstand what was said...


Because the reception was bad?

Johnsie
July 21st, 2010, 11:37 AM
Because nobody turned their wi-fi off

Old Marcus
July 21st, 2010, 02:19 PM
It saddens me that Jobs can't admit his company made a mistake, and would rather slag off the competition to cover Apple's balls-up.