So a Microsoft Activation Guy Just Hung Up on Me...

[user1397]

So I installed my legal copy of Windows 7 through virtual box as I wiped my drive and installed ubuntu on it a few days ago.

I tried the online activation and it didn't work, so I tried doing it by phone and the rep was talking to me as if I'm completely computer illiterate (which is of course fair...9/10 people that call him probably are). He was saying stuff like,

"Okay now do you see the windows logo on the bottom left of the screen?"

"Yes."

"Ok now click it."

So after a bit of letting him talk to me like I'm 5, I explained to him my scenario, after which there was a pause, and then he hung up.

Like, seriously?

[earthpigg]

feel compelled to infringe copyright, yet?

[Lucradia]

Starting with Windows XP SP2, Windows no longer activates automagically via Virtual Machine. There has been a workaround for this posted, but you need to first install Windows to the machine, get a file, then install it in a VM, tell the VM to broadcast every single hardware (USB and all) to the guest, then copy the file into the VM after editing a network file of some sort.

Microsoft no longer wants you to activate windows in a VM, I've tried many times before after the release of XP SP2, only XP SP1 and before was able to do it for some reason.

[sandyd]

Starting with Windows XP SP2, Windows no longer activates automagically via Virtual Machine. There has been a workaround for this posted, but you need to first install Windows to the machine, get a file, then install it in a VM, tell the VM to broadcast every single hardware (USB and all) to the guest, then copy the file into the VM after editing a network file of some sort.

Microsoft no longer wants you to activate windows in a VM, I've tried many times before after the release of XP SP2, only XP SP1 and before was able to do it for some reason.
http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/4035/lllxt.jpg

might be because I was using the VLK edition since xp-win7.

[MasterNetra]

feel compelled to infringe copyright, yet?

All fun and pirating until someone gets hurt. Likely Microsoft isn't a someone. :p

[Timmer1240]

Their there to support you always!LOL!:lolflag::lolflag::lolflag:

[lukeiamyourfather]

Microsoft is a lot easier to deal with than Adobe on the phone. They at least give you the benefit of the doubt. Adobe just flat out assumes you're stealing from them if you have to activate any of their products more than two or three times. Having said that, yeah, its one of the reasons why I try to use only free and open source software these days. Cheers!

[earthpigg]

wouldn't it be nice if there was a windows repository of some sort that you could just google, and if it worked perfectly in VirtualBox?

[digitalcitizenx]

Their there to support you always!LOL!:lolflag::lolflag::lolflag:

They're there - their means it belongs to them - they're is short for they are

/grammar police

[renovatio94]

Why don't you just dual-boot, that would make things way easier? Just like one minute down time switching between OS.

[digitalcitizenx]

So I installed my legal copy of Windows 7 through virtual box as I wiped my drive and installed ubuntu on it a few days ago.

I tried the online activation and it didn't work, so I tried doing it by phone and the rep was talking to me as if I'm completely computer illiterate (which is of course fair...9/10 people that call him probably are). He was saying stuff like,

"Okay now do you see the windows logo on the bottom left of the screen?"

"Yes."

"Ok now click it."

So after a bit of letting him talk to me like I'm 5, I explained to him my scenario, after which there was a pause, and then he hung up.

Like, seriously?

I just be tough being a phone support guy for Windows.

http://www.techtales.com/

[proggy]

Windows should be free,a friend of mine got his legally bought oem blacklisted, so he had to pirate his own copy because Microsoft didn't want to activate it a second time. Now that`s f-up.
Microsoft got their money and made him a pirate at the same time.

[staf0048]

Funny - MS doesn't like the idea of being a "secondary" OS running in a VM and will hang up on paying customers trying to set up their computer the way they want it.

Surely Bug #1 is way too pervasive.

[Khakilang]

Microsoft doesn't want you to use any OS except their own and they are so confident their OS doesn't give any problem so format and reinstall Windows is an infringement to their copyright product.

[bigseb]

Start this exact same thread in a Windows forum and the respondants will (mostly) tell you it was your own fault. I've always found it strange how so many people can be for something that just doesn't work.

Personally, I believe service is part of the product, part of what I paid money for. If I don't get that then sayonara amigos, I off to the competition.

I also believe piracy isn't the answer. If its bad then just don't use it.

[Giant Speck]

Obviously, one bad experience with one bad phone tech is representative of the company as a whole.

[Linye]

http://www.sibgames.net/upload/main/ca4/captain%20obvious.jpg

[slooksterpsv]

I remember I had an old Dell that had XP on it, and the computer went bad so I had an XP CD from another computer and installed it on another machine. When I called the tech support for activation assistance they told me that since it was installed on another computer even though the computer went bad they couldn't activate it on another machine. To me thats not right, I bought a computer with your software on it but the computer went bad and I had to buy another computer that didn't have an OS on it and you won't activate my legit copy of Windows?

I wasn't too happy, Windows is too restrictive.

[undecim]

*SNIP*
I also believe piracy isn't the answer. If its bad then just don't use it.

But the pirated versions work fine. Some people have no choice, because they need Windows for work or school. Not using it isn't an option, and for whatever reason dual booting or installing over Ubuntu isn't an option.

What option do you have left?

[slooksterpsv]

But the pirated versions work fine. Some people have no choice, because they need Windows for work or school. Not using it isn't an option, and for whatever reason dual booting or installing over Ubuntu isn't an option.

What option do you have left?

I hate the price of Windows, 1 installation for $99 and thats just for an upgrade, and if you need 3 installations, 3 installations $298, Mac OS X 1 installation $79, 3 installations $129; Ubuntu 1 installation $0.05 (cost of a CD), 3 installations $0.05, 100000 installations $0.05.

Anyone see a problem there? Yes, and that's why so many people Pirate software is cause they need it but it costs too much, except Ubuntu, but where Windows is mainstream yeah... you know where I'm going with this.

[bigseb]

But the pirated versions work fine. Some people have no choice, because they need Windows for work or school. Not using it isn't an option, and for whatever reason dual booting or installing over Ubuntu isn't an option.

What option do you have left?
You're missing the point. Piracy is ILLEGAL!! Find an alternative or buy it. I dual boot with XP for one bit of software that I need for work. I use my old XP 'cos its paid for and it works. Pirating stuff just because you want the latest/greatest or because you don't want to deal with less than perfect service is WRONG!

[John Bean]

Starting with Windows XP SP2, Windows no longer activates automagically via Virtual Machine. There has been a workaround for this posted, but you need to first install Windows to the machine, get a file, then install it in a VM, tell the VM to broadcast every single hardware (USB and all) to the guest, then copy the file into the VM after editing a network file of some sort.

Microsoft no longer wants you to activate windows in a VM, I've tried many times before after the release of XP SP2, only XP SP1 and before was able to do it for some reason.

Odd. A few months ago I installed a XP SP3 OEM CD in Virtualbox and it activated automatically online with no issues whatsoever. To be honest I've never had any problem activating XP automatically even after moving to new hardware - after a respectable time has elapsed since the last activation of course.

I think it probably helps if the copy of XP and its associated licence are both legitimate ;-)

[cartman640]

Ah yes, Microsoft phone "support", I had something similar happen to me.

I was having activation problems in VMware server running Windows Server 2008 Enterprise (a very pricey operating system I might add), and it wouldn't let me activate after moving the VM, so I rang Microsoft to sort it out. After 40+ minutes on hold, 5 departments in 3 different countries they finally told me "Sorry we can't help you, we only support VMware ESX, not VMware Server, goodbye".

In the time I spent on hold I had started another VM and configured another instance of Ubuntu Server to replace Windows, that Windows VM was never started again and has since been deleted. I've also never had another problem with any of my servers since lol.

Fortunately at the time I could get keys for nearly everything Microsoft makes for free (legally) though my university, so I didn't waste any money.

[Velnias]

If I remember correctly, your bought Windows still Microsoft property. So, you borrowed it from Bill Gates and only Bill decides how you can use it.

[xpod]

.....snip

So after a bit of letting him talk to me like I'm 5, I explained to him my scenario, after which there was a pause, and then he hung up.

Like, seriously?

I obviously cant be 100% sure exactly what scenario you explained to the TS chap in question but if you mentioned Linux or VM`s then perhaps you could try calling back as though you`re just trying to activate a normal installation of Windows, without mentioning Linux or VM`s, if you did of course.

I`ve never had to call MS but i have had my ISP TS hang up on me, probably because i was being a bit of a stubborn git. The easiest way in the long run though was just to have an available Windows install connected directly to the modem or indeed just tell a little white lie and let him think the vm or indeed Linux install was just a normal Windows install. I suppose this all depends on exactly what they can tell at their end with whatever procedure it is being carried out.

Can MS tell the VM you`re trying to activate is a VM and not a proper installation? I dont know.

[murderslastcrow]

Let's hope 1. Ubuntu becomes just that tiny bit more popular and 2. Wine gets more compatible (while it already is quite good) so that good people don't have to deal with such messes.

Of course, we'll all be living in the clouds in a few years according to some analysts (prophets, or perhaps cold-readers), so your woes will soon come to an end.

[undecim]

You're missing the point. Piracy is ILLEGAL!! Find an alternative or buy it. I dual boot with XP for one bit of software that I need for work. I use my old XP 'cos its paid for and it works. Pirating stuff just because you want the latest/greatest or because you don't want to deal with less than perfect service is WRONG!

You're missing the point. Many people have no choice but to pirate when a company uses their market leverage to keep competitors down just so that they can charge triple digits for their products while maintaining a dominating market share. Microsoft uses dirty, underhanded tactics to squeeze every ounce of money they can from the world, and part of those tactics involve making their software the de facto standard and at the same time, crippling said software.

Actually, a lot of what Microsoft does is illegal as well. They just have the lawyers to keep everyone off their backs (sometimes, anyways).

[Warpnow]

Some time ago, I pirated the same version of XP I legally own. Why? Because the "restore" cd they gave me was not an install CD. The restore CD was bloated with crap. In addition to that the pirated version was pre-loaded with SP3 and various security programs, and saved me alot of time.

I think its impossible for most of us to pirate XP anymore, as almost everyone I've ever met has a license sitting around somewhere on some computer they're not using. The OEMs just didn't give them the install CD because they want them to pay for the same software over and over. I say ********.

Jay walking is also illegal, but if I need to cross the street, I am going to.

[bigseb]

You're missing the point. Many people have no choice but to pirate when a company uses their market leverage to keep competitors down just so that they can charge triple digits for their products while maintaining a dominating market share. Microsoft uses dirty, underhanded tactics to squeeze every ounce of money they can from the world, and part of those tactics involve making their software the de facto standard and at the same time, crippling said software.

Actually, a lot of what Microsoft does is illegal as well. They just have the lawyers to keep everyone off their backs (sometimes, anyways).
Ah, there you are wrong. Again. You do have a choice and that is DON"T USE IT! Find an alternative and get on with your life. Regardless of what Microsoft does if you get found out then you're the one to answer questions. Wrong is still wrong.

[Linye]

I support the piracy idea.

[Sporkman]

Starting with Windows XP SP2, Windows no longer activates automagically via Virtual Machine. There has been a workaround for this posted, but you need to first install Windows to the machine, get a file, then install it in a VM, tell the VM to broadcast every single hardware (USB and all) to the guest, then copy the file into the VM after editing a network file of some sort.

Microsoft no longer wants you to activate windows in a VM, I've tried many times before after the release of XP SP2, only XP SP1 and before was able to do it for some reason.

I've installed win7 64bit on a virtualbox VM with no problems.

It does, however, complain when you pause the machine, then resume it later. I did it once, and the desktop background went black, and a pop-up in a stern yet concerned tone stated to me that I may be a "victim of counterfeiting", and that this copy of windows may not be genuine. I then had to re-register it using the product key.

[mamamia88]

i bought windows home premium for $30 from my college and put it on my laptop. after awhile i formatted the computer and went back to full install of ubuntu. then i bought a netbook with windows 7 starter and decided i would throw my unused windows licesnce on it. but then it wouldn't activate with the activation code i was given from digital river. rather than waste time on the phone with microsoft i found a workaround that took roughly 30 seconds to activate windows. ms phone support to activate windows is horrible. i once had to read a 50 digit code to a guy on the phone who barerly understood english to try and activate xp. I will never go through ms phone support again. It's as good as useless

[donkyhotay]

It was issues like that that caused me to ditch windows in the first place. I now use ubuntu exclusively and have no plans on ever going back to windows (at least for personal use). I disagree with the piracy thing, it's because people use that it's a de facto standard that requires people to "need" it. If enough people were to start using FOSS then it would become the standard and MS would modify it's stuff to be compatible with the everyone else (though of course only as a precursor to an EEE campaign). By giving in and pirating it you just encourage having MS as the de facto standard. They have stated somewhere (don't know where) that they would rather people pirate windows then use other software. Because they know even if they lose money to piracy now it encourages the standard and they will recoup their losses later by either the person buying legit windows or in a piracy lawsuit.

[samalex]

As for VirtualBox goes, is there anything unique about it that would prevent someone from activating Windows 7 on one instance of VBox and using it on other systems running VBox? Also does an update to VBox change the system enough to cause Windows 7 to trigger a need to reactivate?

I only run Windows XP in VBox, but I've considered moving to Windows 7 at some point -- probably whenever we do at work since that's the only reason I use it.

Sam

[ST3ALTHPSYCH0]

feel compelled to infringe copyright, yet?


All fun and pirating until someone gets hurt. Likely Microsoft isn't a someone. :p


I support the piracy idea.


"What are we going to do tonight, Brain?"
"The same thing we do every night, Pinky, try to take over the world!"
"How are we going to do that, Brain?"
"By suggesting that our fellow Ubuntu users pirate Windows."

I mean, seriously? I'm fairly certain that this is a violation of the CoC. If you're gonna use it, pay for it. If you've paid for it, just call in and follow the prompts. Don't offer any extra info, just say it won't activate over the 'net and be done with it. Phone support techs don't care how advanced you are or are not.... They're just following the prompts on their screen.

[Linye]

I was just saying. I don't have Windows at the moment and I haven't heard of someone buying Windows in my entire live. Also, what do you care if he use illegally?

[MCVenom]

"What are we going to do tonight, Brain?"
"The same thing we do every night, Pinky, try to take over the world!"
"How are we going to do that, Brain?"
"By suggesting that our fellow Ubuntu users pirate Windows."

I mean, seriously? I'm fairly certain that this is a violation of the CoC. If you're gonna use it, pay for it. If you've paid for it, just call in and follow the prompts. Don't offer any extra info, just say it won't activate over the 'net and be done with it. Phone support techs don't care how advanced you are or are not.... They're just following the prompts on their screen.
Pay twice for something because MS messed up? I'm sorry, piracy for the sake of piracy is wrong, but so is a company trying to scam me out of my money.


It was issues like that that caused me to ditch windows in the first place. I now use ubuntu exclusively and have no plans on ever going back to windows (at least for personal use). I disagree with the piracy thing, it's because people use that it's a de facto standard that requires people to "need" it. If enough people were to start using FOSS then it would become the standard and MS would modify it's stuff to be compatible with the everyone else (though of course only as a precursor to an EEE campaign). By giving in and pirating it you just encourage having MS as the de facto standard. They have stated somewhere (don't know where) that they would rather people pirate windows then use other software. Because they know even if they lose money to piracy now it encourages the standard and they will recoup their losses later by either the person buying legit windows or in a piracy lawsuit.

You, my friend have a good point. :P

[McRat]

Microsoft went over the brim with the new licensing policy. Copy protection is only wrong when it interferes with the paid use of software. Unless that is, they notify you in advance: "This software is copy-protected which may interfere with your legal use of it." This statement was legally required with the MacroVision copy protection on VCR tapes, since the product was harmed/devalued by the copy protection.

I bought Win7 for $149. I installed it on a Clone I built. It would not run with that $50 motherboard, so I put a different $50 motherboard in it. HDD, RAM, CPU were all the same. Win7 then told me the software was not "Genuine", ie- it was stolen.

It used to be that it looked at either the HDD S/N or CPU S/N, but now it's "AND".

It took about an hour to get through their license policy.

Now, MS licenses Win for under $50, but you as a street customer must pay $100+ for a box and a disk (true value, 8 bucks). They could have thrown a $10 USB protection dongle in the box also, which would eliminate copy protection issues, but instead, they chose to hassle the legal customers to save a few bucks.

[BigSilly]

Microsoft don't care a monkeys really if you pirate their software. As donkyhotay above points out, it's proof of the demand for their software, and by pirating it you add worth to it in the long run.

I moved to Linux originally because I wouldn't pirate Windows. A mate of mine gave me a copy, but I wouldn't use it.

[cariboo]

Just a reminder to everyone in this thread, we do not support illegal activities on the forums. If you do support piracy, keep it to your self.

[Old_Grey_Wolf]

Starting with Windows XP SP2, Windows no longer activates automagically via Virtual Machine. There has been a workaround for this posted, but you need to first install Windows to the machine, get a file, then install it in a VM, tell the VM to broadcast every single hardware (USB and all) to the guest, then copy the file into the VM after editing a network file of some sort.

Microsoft no longer wants you to activate windows in a VM, I've tried many times before after the release of XP SP2, only XP SP1 and before was able to do it for some reason.

Hum, I have a legal copy of Windows Vista running in Vertualbox without any problems activating. I use it to connect to the company servers when I'm traveling. If it gets compromised by using an unprotected Hotel WIFI, I could reinstall the VM from a clone. So far, nothing has gotten past the UFW or VPN connection.

[irv]

If I look through all my old software I would be able to come up with copies of MS DOS (many version), Windows 3.0, 3.1, 95, 98, ME, XP, Vista, and Win7. All legal copies. This also includes all the office products from MS. I don't believe in piracy and no Ubuntu user should for any reason.
Now I do not appreciate someone who sells you something you can't use and refuse to give you your money back, but that is a different story, but it does not give the right to do something illegal. There are legal channels to go through.

The last laptop I bough from Best Buy was giving me problems so I took it back to them for repairs, but they refused to work on it because I had installed Ubuntu on it. I had bought the extended warranty and I was a little irate. When they refused to work on it, I told them I just wanted my money back and they could keep the laptop. Of course they would not do this, but I did get my money back I paid for the extended warranty. To make a long story short, I fix it myself and am still using it with Ubuntu and Win7. (I replaced Vista with Win7).

One last thing, I don't know how MS could sell a OS like Vista, which is so bad it became unusable and there is no way to get your money back because you don't buy it, you license it.

[sandyd]

Microsoft went over the brim with the new licensing policy. Copy protection is only wrong when it interferes with the paid use of software. Unless that is, they notify you in advance: "This software is copy-protected which may interfere with your legal use of it." This statement was legally required with the MacroVision copy protection on VCR tapes, since the product was harmed/devalued by the copy protection.

I bought Win7 for $149. I installed it on a Clone I built. It would not run with that $50 motherboard, so I put a different $50 motherboard in it. HDD, RAM, CPU were all the same. Win7 then told me the software was not "Genuine", ie- it was stolen.

It used to be that it looked at either the HDD S/N or CPU S/N, but now it's "AND".

It took about an hour to get through their license policy.

Now, MS licenses Win for under $50, but you as a street customer must pay $100+ for a box and a disk (true value, 8 bucks). They could have thrown a $10 USB protection dongle in the box also, which would eliminate copy protection issues, but instead, they chose to hassle the legal customers to save a few bucks.

which is one of the reasons im not buying office 2010. I dont feel like paying 250 for it, and then have to download 1GB of stuff just to run

[irv]

which is one of the reasons im not buying office 2010. I dont feel like paying 250 for it, and then have to download 1GB of stuff just to run

For this reason, I see more people going to OpenOffice these days. As people see the advantages to using open source software the more easy it will be to make then see open source OS's are the way to go. MS will shot themselves in the foot by doing this.

[donkyhotay]

For this reason, I see more people going to OpenOffice these days. As people see the advantages to using open source software the more easy it will be to make then see open source OS's are the way to go. MS will shot themselves in the foot by doing this.

They're greedy, not stupid. So either they'll fix those issues or do something else that encourages(prevents) people from using anything else (like changing the file formats again to prevent openoffice compatibility).

[Dustin2128]

I personally like my programs like I like my operating systems. Light.

[Frogs Hair]

Every three months an update I received from MS tells me my copy of windows is not genuine until hit the activate windows tab , and then Its golden until the next time . This was not supposed to happen with genuine copies of Windows . I seriously doubt that tiger direct is selling pirated copies of Windows and from some other threads around the web calling MS to report this issue is useless.

[Neken]

if he's using the OEM license that came with his computer to install it in a VM ... then NO he's not using the windows HE PAID FOR. the windows he paid for was a third of the cost of a regular windows license, with the disadvantage that it can only run on the specific hardware it was installed on ... no virtual machines.

[irv]

if he's using the OEM license that came with his computer to install it in a VM ... then NO he's not using the windows HE PAID FOR. the windows he paid for was a third of the cost of a regular windows license, with the disadvantage that it can only run on the specific hardware it was installed on ... no virtual machines.

Is this true if you are running it a virtual machines on the original hardware?
Just a side note: do you work for Microsoft?

[Viva]

I feel sorry for him, probably experiencing a lot of problems with his private life. Happens to everyone, I'd let it go.

[linux18]

The best automagically-generated compromise:

Buy a legal copy of windows then pirate a "working" copy. Now you have a windows license and it works.

Honestly, the 66 MB micro XP iso from 2006 is pretty much the standard for usability and speed ( unless its changed since 2006, its been forever since I pirated something ) but when i had virtualbox that thing ran FAST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (the exclamation marks denote performance - higher is better ) now i have no need for M$.

[yaaarrrgg]

The problem with pirated software though, is you really never know what's in it. It would be pretty easy to take someone else's cracked version, and wrap it in a malicious app. How do you know it's not sending all your passwords to Captain Hook? :)

While MS might claim the activation is to protect their software, it seems more like "anti-competitive" behavior to me. Why would it matter if it were installed in a VM or not? One license is one license. That includes support.

Generally a company should use simple security measures to protect software since simple measures will handle of the 99% of users, and those that want to crack it will probably find a way around it anyway. For example, just encrypt a unique file for every serial number, such that it can only be decrypted by a corresponding code. Any security beyond that is like bolting a gigantic steel lock on a wooden door.

[staf0048]

Is this true if you are running it a virtual machines on the original hardware?

Had this issue come up myself and the answer was no. You cannot use the install disc that came with your computer to install on a VM. It can only be installed on the physical computer. If you want to run the same version of Windows in a VM you need to buy another copy/license. It's in the EULA if I'm not mistaken.

[murderslastcrow]

If they're going to make you pay for a piece of crap just to run some exclusive programs, they could at least try to make it a bit easier on you once they squeeze all that gooey money out of ya'.

I've been trying my best to be polite and not rail on Microsoft lately, since it doesn't really help anything, and their products aren't really bad (just the worst around, but they still get the job done). But seriously, sometimes it borders on completely ridiculous the kind of stuff they're feeding people.

I think the general public deserves something better than Windows, especially if they're willing to pay 200-300 dollars.

[oldos2er]

I personally like my programs like I like my operating systems. Light.

I would've said GPL'ed in place of light, but yeah.

[Stan_1936]

So I installed my legal copy of Windows 7 through virtual box as I wiped my drive and installed ubuntu on it a few days ago.

I tried the online activation and it didn't work, so I tried doing it by phone and the rep was talking to me as if I'm completely computer illiterate (which is of course fair...9/10 people that call him probably are). He was saying stuff like,

"Okay now do you see the windows logo on the bottom left of the screen?"

"Yes."

"Ok now click it."

So after a bit of letting him talk to me like I'm 5, I explained to him my scenario, after which there was a pause, and then he hung up.

Like, seriously?

It is out of the norm. Yours is the odd situation. The special circumstance.

If you ask me, the ownness was on you to make it happen. Sorry, but I blame you for the whole thing.

You should have had some patience. Had you gone along with him, you would have spent an extra 10-15 odd minutes and be done with it once and for all, rather than having to journal about it with a bunch of strangers who can do NOTHING to help you.

[ST3ALTHPSYCH0]

It is out of the norm. Yours is the odd situation. The special circumstance.

If you ask me, the ownness was on you to make it happen. Sorry, but I blame you for the whole thing.

You should have had some patience. Had you gone along with him, you would have spent an extra 10-15 odd minutes and be done with it once and for all, rather than having to journal about it with a bunch of strangers who can do NOTHING to help you.

^ This.

Like I said, call back, keep your mouth shut about Linux and VMs, and let the person on the other end follow their prompts. If they ask (which they won't), you got a new HDD and wanted to reinstall (it's a half truth, the virtual drive is "new").

[earthpigg]

currently, paying customers have two choices:

1) activate their legal copy the legal way.

2) activate their legal copy the legally gray way.

Option two results in a superior DRM-free product and takes less time, but is legally questionable. (I doubt anyone with exactly one Win7 install and exactly one physical Win7 box will ever face legal consequences.)


The USB dongle idea above is actually a great idea, as far as DRM goes. Make Windows something directly downloadable from Microsoft, and sell USB dongles ($150) that activate & deactivate windows with the caveat that one copy of windows must be deactivated prior to activating the second copy (or n copies of windows, for business customers). No DRM is perfect, but this would inconvenience customers less than dealing with telephonic customer service.

Assume Microsoft will continue to define a computer as "this exact set of hardware X and Y" and that any change in hardware constitutes a "different computer." Silly, but i'll go with it.

Let the dongle function one time without the dongle calling home to Microsoft via the internet, and for all subsequent activations the dongle has a little electronic conversation with Microsoft to verify that this one USB dongle is indeed only allowing one install of Win7.

If you know you are going to make hardware changes that could yield the 'this copy of windows is not genuine' scenario, then pop the dongle in and use it to de-activate windows, make your hardware changes, and pop the dongle in to re-activate windows.

having that physical dongle is having exactly one windows license valued at $x.xx. i also see no reason why additional licenses couldn't be added to the same physical dongle, if a customer chose to do so - think businesses, here.

businesses would be well advised to put that dongle wherever they keep cash and other valuables.

the dongle essentially becomes like one of those electronic car keys that can only be manufactured by the car manufacturer and the car title rolled into one. any 3rd party manufactured keys fail to start the car.

OEM's can put the dongle in a little plastic bag taped right up against the outside of the case.


the only time anyone would ever need to call to activate is when they lose their key or it (key or computer) gets stolen, or if they both don't have an internet connection and they cannot de-activate the first install before performing the second for whatever reason (dog ate my USB ports).

a large % of the customer support folks being laid off may even more than offset the cost of these little dongles. automating things formerly performed by humans usually does (hence the drive for automation). if it doesn't offset the cost, then just raise the price by $5.

[MasterNetra]

"What are we going to do tonight, Brain?"
"The same thing we do every night, Pinky, try to take over the world!"
"How are we going to do that, Brain?"
"By suggesting that our fellow Ubuntu users pirate Windows."

I mean, seriously? I'm fairly certain that this is a violation of the CoC. If you're gonna use it, pay for it. If you've paid for it, just call in and follow the prompts. Don't offer any extra info, just say it won't activate over the 'net and be done with it. Phone support techs don't care how advanced you are or are not.... They're just following the prompts on their screen.

I was not suggesting that one should pirate windows. o.O The sentence was something thats called a "Joke" apparently this must be foreign to you. I wouldn't officially suggest pirating to anyone. Its a dangerous thing to do. Unless your china and got the USA by the balls then it might be possible to get away with that. Though I think pirating is officially illegal over there too.

[earthpigg]

I never suggested attacking ships at sea (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piracy), either, just for the record. :D

[v1ad]

install the windows. if the activation does not work, crack it. you did pay for it so i doubt that it will be illegal.

[MasterNetra]

I never suggested attacking ships at sea (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piracy), either, just for the record. :D

Aye, I would go after Microsoft with a pirate ship but its hard to find a ship that travels on land too... :p

[Dustin2128]

I would've said GPL'ed in place of light, but yeah.

Nah, I like some BSD OSes too. But open sourced is a must. I was kind of referring to how a word processor (Ms word) can take up gigabytes of space on both HDD and RAM (when running), in addition to windows vista and up taking a quarter of the average user's RAM while idle. Some people disagree, but I care if most of my RAM is occupied. An OS shouldn't take much more than 300MB while idling. In KDE.

[jerenept]

Sabayon - uses 500 mb of ram running midori (3 tabs) , compiz-fusion and deluge.

[McRat]

install the windows. if the activation does not work, crack it. you did pay for it so i doubt that it will be illegal.

Most software licensing has a Reverse Engineering clause in it. Cracking code requires reverse engineering it. Now, whether it would be a "criminal" offense, hmmm... They passed a law in the US that it is a crime to defeat copy protection. How wide ranging it is, I dunno.

[earthpigg]

Some people disagree, but I care if most of my RAM is occupied. An OS shouldn't take much more than 300MB while idling. In KDE.

little off topic, but...

Firefox (10 tabs), pidgin, compiz, hplip system tray thing, empathy (for facebook chat), rhythmbox (playlist containing 3k songs open) is sitting at 616 mb ram usage.

your ~300 number is interesting, if "everything and the kitchen sink starts as soon as user logs in" is only double that figure, and if 'bare bones' is around 1/3 of that number...

I'm probably putting much more thought into this than i ought to be.

[earthpigg]

Most software licensing has a Reverse Engineering clause in it. Cracking code requires reverse engineering it. Now, whether it would be a "criminal" offense, hmmm... They passed a law in the US that it is a crime to defeat copy protection. How wide ranging it is, I dunno.

i suspect that the DMCA is aimed more at copyright infringers and people distributing their reverse engineering feats, and not aimed so much at people frustrated with telephone customer service that also happen to know how to google.

I would certainly be very shocked to see anyone arrested or put on trial that has one legally purchased copy of windows install media for each actual install of windows that isn't also up to something else (such as doing the reverse engineering himself and distributing the results).

one typical way this reverse engineering is applied, as i understand it, is via a copyright-infringing modified version of GRUB that loads an OEM key into the right part of memory prior to starting windows.

Creating and Distributing that particular modified version of GRUB is certainly illegal in the United States. I imagine that seeding it's torrent would qualify as "distributing", as well.

Using that modified version of GRUB is certainly illegal if one does not have a legal copy of the windows license.

If one did have a legally purchased copy of Windows, however, this would still be in clear violation of the terms of use and Microsoft would certainly be justified in refusing customer service to customers that choose not to use the software in the approved manner. I also wouldn't expect Ford to honor the warranty on my commuter car if i started driving it in a demolition derby. This is also why, IMO, it isn't entirely unreasonable that MS refuses customer service to users of Win in VM.

I'm not so sure that violating the ToS and doing nothing else is enough to have legal worries... Reverse engineering and applying the reverse engineering are not the same thing. Engineering went into building my car, but driving it (putting that engineering to use) does not make me an engineer. By that same logic, putting someone else's reverse engineering to use would not make me any form of engineer, including a "reverse engineer-er" (or whatever the correct term is).


Honestly, I'm surprised Windows installs on Virtual hardware at all, instead of locking up as soon as it starts detecting hardware as "VBOX CD-ROM Drive" and stuff like that. If a piece of hardware self-identifies it's manufacturer as "VBOX", it isn't much of a secret that we're living "in the Matrix" so to speak...

[McRat]

Depending on the software design, defeating copy protection can be as simple as one byte of code.

Back in prehistoric times, I'd load a copy protected application into DEBUG.EXE. I'd single step through the program (a lot of patience and time is req'd) until the copy protection failed, then start back up with my notes and go in right before the failure.

Many programs have the copy protection routine in it's own subroutine. And in this subroutine is a IF (JMP ?) statement of one kind or another, to branch out to the failure. Changing the IF to a NOT IF is one byte. You edit that one byte, and the file length stays the same, so just saving the binary back away is all that is needed. What happens is that if the "KEY" is missing or wrong, it thinks it's good, but if the "KEY" is right, it chokes.

I doubt that hacking Windows would be that simple though. Things have changed a lot in 20 years.

DISCLAIMER: The applications I cracked were machine controllers that no longer had factory support. You could not buy the copy protection dongles anymore, so it was crack or die.

[v1ad]

I doubt that hacking Windows would be that simple though. Things have changed a lot in 20 years.

nope still as easy....

[McRat]

nope still as easy....

I dunno, I retired from it a long time ago. I heard that they have ways to stop you from single stepping, but I don't know.

[linux18]

I dunno, I retired from it a long time ago. I heard that they have ways to stop you from single stepping, but I don't know.
single-stepping has ( mostly )stopped, but it's still that easy

[Penguin Guy]

I also believe piracy isn't the answer. If its bad then just don't use it.

Piracy is ILLEGAL!! Find an alternative or buy it. I dual boot with XP for one bit of software that I need for work. I use my old XP 'cos its paid for and it works. Pirating stuff just because you want the latest/greatest or because you don't want to deal with less than perfect service is WRONG!

Again. You do have a choice and that is DON"T USE IT! Find an alternative and get on with your life. Regardless of what Microsoft does if you get found out then you're the one to answer questions. Wrong is still wrong.
Since he's bought the OS, it's not really pirating. Illegal is not the same as wrong.

(lawyers need not reply)

[Penguin Guy]

They're greedy, not stupid. So either they'll fix those issues or do something else that encourages(prevents) people from using anything else (like changing the file formats again to prevent openoffice compatibility).
Quite the opposite, they're actually releasing a new format called OpenXML (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_Open_XML).

[The Real Dave]

Hmmm, everytime I've called, it's just been a machine, which activates it without query.

[bigseb]

Buy a legal copy of windows then pirate a "working" copy. Now you have a windows license and it works.
Yeah, buy a car then drive a stolen one 'cos it runs better. Good advice. :sarcasm:

[bigseb]

Since he's bought the OS, it's not really pirating. Illegal is not the same as wrong.

(lawyers need not reply)
jsyk my comments weren't driected at the OP but at another poster.

AND: The difference between 'illegal' and 'wrong' is irrelevant if you're a law-abiding christian.

[yossell]

Yeah, buy a car then drive a stolen one 'cos it runs better. Good advice. :sarcasm:

But, strictly speaking, pirating isn't exactly the same as theft - so the analogy doesn't always work. That's why lawyers treat pirating as copyright infringement rather than stealing. In this case, you're depriving someone else of his car - which is clearly wrong - but in the case where one has paid for the software, why does it matter if it's been copied?

[DrMelon]

If you tell the guy it's part of a business enterprise, he'll likely either transfer your call or continue. My workplace frequently activates Windows software on VMs - it makes transporting a machine from one place to another globally as simple as moving a file.

[ST3ALTHPSYCH0]

I was not suggesting that one should pirate windows. o.O The sentence was something thats called a "Joke" apparently this must be foreign to you. I wouldn't officially suggest pirating to anyone. Its a dangerous thing to do. Unless your china and got the USA by the balls then it might be possible to get away with that. Though I think pirating is officially illegal over there too.


I apologize for grouping you in there. In black and white sarcasm and jokes don't always translate (I've been on the receiving end of this before). As you can see, there are those who are quite serious.

In regards to the rest of your post, there are some countries where it doesn't matter.... an infamous torrent site resides in one such country.

In regards to the rest of this post, obviously, from my advice, I believe that the OP has a right to use his license. I understand how frustrating it is to go through the checklist with support personnel (believe me, as an IT worker, I don't call unless I have to, b/c they'll walk me through all the basic crap that I've already done), but sometime you has to swallow your pride and just do it in the interest of achieving the end goal.

[Penguin Guy]

Yeah, buy a car then drive a stolen one 'cos it runs better. Good advice. :sarcasm:
Copying is not the same a stealing.


The difference between 'illegal' and 'wrong' is irrelevant if you're a law-abiding christian.
Christians follow a set of moral values (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_values), not the law. In effect, they do what is morally right rather than what is legally right. It may be the case, however, that said Christian believes that the law is always morally right. Assuming you are this Christian, I am effectively disagreeing with your presumption that the law is always morally right.

Just to clarify my position: I believe people should be able to do whatever they like with any intellectual property, however the law in my country states otherwise so I'll follow that to a certain degree (I'll buy something once, but not again). I see nothing wrong with re-downloading something you've already paid for.

[bigseb]

Christians follow a set of moral values (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_values), not the law. In effect, they do what is morally right rather than what is legally right. It may be the case, however, that said Christian believes that the law is always morally right. Assuming you are this Christian, I am effectively disagreeing with your presumption that the law is always morally right.

It isn't and I'll never say that it is but as a Christian one is required to submit to the higher authorities. Doing whatever one wants may be wrong, illegal or both. In this case (ie using something without permission) it is.


Just to clarify my position: I believe people should be able to do whatever they like with any intellectual property, however the law in my country states otherwise so I'll follow that to a certain degree (I'll buy something once, but not again). I see nothing wrong with re-downloading something you've already paid for.

I agree to a point. I'm all for Opensource. I have stated my intense dislike for Microsoft's policies many time over. Doesn't mean I can do what I want with their products simply because I feel it is right to do so.

[YuiDaoren]

Please let's not discuss religion? That never seems to lead to good places. Besides, I think that's against the CoC anyway.

[overdrank]

Thread has reached it's end. :) Thread closed.