Is money the root of all evil?

[WinterRain]

I tend to think it is. It seems like most people are very concerned with making money. It seems like a universal thing. No matter where you live, or no matter where you are, money is pervasive and all-encompassing. It scares me a little bit. Thoughts? Please don't let this get too political or religious, as it will be closed quick.

???

[lostinxlation]

Without human greed, we wouldn't have today's technology.

[Bachstelze]

You are right, of course, but on the other hand, you can't survive for very long without money in this world. Both are probably related, but even if you disagree with that, you basically have no choice but to go with the flow.

[cj.surrusco]

You could probably blame every good or bad thing that's happened in the world on money. That's just my opinion though.

[GregBrannon]

Money MAY be the root of all evil, but it is also the source of much good. Money in itself isn't bad, and man's reasons for obtaining it are not all evil.

[MasterNetra]

I tend to think it is. It seems like most people are very concerned with making money. It seems like a universal thing. No matter where you live, or no matter where you are, money is pervasive and all-encompassing. It scares me a little bit. Thoughts? Please don't let this get too political or religious, as it will be closed quick.

???

No but it most certainly brings out the worst in many. And its not so much the actual item as it is the system itself in which its used in/for. While removing it will remove all crimes related to it, there would still be theft and murders, there be much less but unless everyone has to what they need and want then there will be theft. Murder...thats a problem with many causes most however are due to either chemical/Physical Issues with the mind or Damaged Personality. Once we can fix both areas we can start fixing people instead of throwing them in prison, which is really just a waste of resources and potential otherwise, then that would cease to be a issue.

Side note: Imprisonment is never really a solution, at least not a good one, as it doesn't actually fix the problem(s) that led to that individual committing that crime in the first place.

[Paqman]

The actual quote is:

The love of money is the root of all evil

Subtle but important difference.

[lykwydchykyn]

You cannot really get far with this discussion without defining "evil", and once you've done that it's causes are usually easily understood if not self-evident.

For my own definitions of evil, I can think of many things that are evil which have nothing to do with money.

[MasterNetra]

You cannot really get far with this discussion without defining "evil", and once you've done that it's causes are usually easily understood if not self-evident.

For my own definitions of evil, I can think of many things that are evil which have nothing to do with money.

Aye, Good and evil are relative. Some things that seem universal such as Killing and theft only seem like that for as a species we don't want things taken from us and as a living creature instinctively we don't want to die. Things that are against what we want/need/do as a living thing and as a culture are often what we refer to as "Bad" or "Evil", And of course Good is the opposite.

[Khakilang]

Money itself is innocent. It just a piece of paper that tell you what you can buy with it. It is created by human and want by human. Its the human greed that do whatever they can to get more money. Just like diamond which is a piece of stone but its the human that make it valuable and create a demand so everybody wants it. Money is for survival. The humans think the more money they have the more secure they are and which was not proven right. After all we will die some day and we can't take the money with us wherever we are. Its the mind and will of the human to do evil.

[jfloydb]

To quote the axiom correctly: “The love of money is the root of all evil”. While this statement does contain a certain truth, I think that most of us can think of instances of evil in the world that are not driven by notions of financial gain.

[lykwydchykyn]

Aye, Good and evil are relative. Some things that seem universal such as Killing and theft only seem like that for as a species we don't want things taken from us and as a living creature instinctively we don't want to die.

I'm not saying they're relative, just that they have to be defined in order to have a meaningful discussion on them. The term "evil" itself implies an absolute; and outside of a philosophical or religious context which allows for arbitrary absolutes, I can't see that the term means much except as a pejorative for things we really dislike. In which case, I guess, it kind of is relative. :D

[MasterNetra]

Money itself is innocent. It just a piece of paper that tell you what you can buy with it. It is created by human and want by human. Its the human greed that do whatever they can to get more money. Just like diamond which is a piece of stone but its the human that make it valuable and create a demand so everybody wants it. Money is for survival. The humans think the more money they have the more secure they are and which was not proven right. After all we will die some day and we can't take the money with us wherever we are. Its the mind and will of the human to do evil.

No Money isn't for survival its a ancient method of controlling scarcity which often ends up being a means for slavery and/or control. Money is not needed for survival thats fud created to keep people slaved to the system. As it stands the system is out of date and stands in the way of social and technological development not to mention to fosters crime, inferior products (to keep the cycle of consumption going), and tends to help make resources and naturally scarce and rewards it (a.k.a higher price tag which means more profit), as well as many other issues. We can leave it anytime we want as a civilization, we just need to figure out what we want to move to is all.

[renkinjutsu]

What kind of world would we be living in if there were no Greed, Pride, Gluttony, Lust and Envy.

Money is not the cause, I think it's the human condition. The presence of money only provides an outlet for those alter egos.

Honestly, i'd like to live in a world without money. It'd probably be pretty interesting

[Chronon]

I think it* is true to the extent that you consider greed to be a motivating factor in all acts that you view as evil.

Most evil acts seem to have a component of territoriality in them. I do identify territoriality (over ideas, relationships or physical items) to correspond to a sort of greed. So, in a loose sense I could agree that the love of money (as an idiom representing a more generalized greed) is the root of all evil. (By this I mean that I cannot readily identify an evil act in which personal gain is absent.)


*: The love of money is the root of all evil.

[lykwydchykyn]

The actual quote is:


Subtle but important difference.


To quote the axiom correctly: “The love of money is the root of all evil”. While this statement does contain a certain truth, I think that most of us can think of instances of evil in the world that are not driven by notions of financial gain.

Depending on where you're quoting from, it has also been rendered:


The love of money is the root of all kinds of evils

Yet another subtle but important difference.

Of course, there is no reason why one cannot assert a somewhat different version of the quote for discussion.

[Khakilang]

No Money isn't for survival its a ancient method of controlling scarcity which often ends up being a means for slavery and/or control. Money is not needed for survival thats fud created to keep people slaved to the system.

It is still the mind and will of the humans to use whatever means to slave and control other fellow human beings for their personal gains. And money happen to be one of the tools used to achieve that.

[MasterNetra]

What kind of world would we be living in if there were no Greed, Pride, Gluttony, Lust and Envy.

Money is not the cause, I think it's the human condition. The presence of money only provides an outlet for those alter egos.

Honestly, i'd like to live in a world without money. It'd probably be pretty interesting

Not really. Environmental and Physical Conditions cause people do such things. Our personality is shaped by our environments and the people in them. Chemical and physical imbalances/damage to the mind can also tweak one into being capable of such activities.
When it comes right down to it we are are merely machines ourselves. A reproducing colony of machines. We (species) like to believe we are something more, but its pure Ego though.


It is still the mind and will of the humans to use whatever means to slave and control other fellow human beings for their personal gains. And money happen to be one of the tools used to achieve that.

A mind and will set that has its roots in scarcity.

[lisati]

I see I have been beaten to making an observation about the love of money being a/the root of [all kinds of] evil(s). And yes, I know one place where the quote can be found, but forum rules discourage an elaboration.

IMO, money becomes a problem when people's priorities are messed up, where the money itself becomes more important than using it wisely.

[KiwiNZ]

Money simple

Bank notes are simply a "bill of exchange"

A cheque (check for USA) is a "promissory note"

No evil at all. They are vehicle used to facilitate trade to provide ourselves with the necessities of life and the luxuries of life.

And despite what some head in the sand individuals may think , this is not a fairy tale world and one cannot do well with out it. And again that does not make it evil.

[MasterNetra]

Money simple

Bank notes are simply a "bill of exchange"

A cheque (check for USA) is a "promissory note"

No evil at all. They are vehicle used to facilitate trade to provide ourselves with the necessities of life and the luxuries of life.

And despite what some head in the sand individuals may think , this is not a fairy tale world and one cannot do well with out it. And again that does not make it evil.

Oh and what makes you think your head isn't in the sand? We have survived way back as hunter gathers and money wasn't necessary in fact it didn't exist. I'm not suggesting we go back to that manner of living I am merely pointing out there are indeed ways of surviving and resource management that doesn't involve the use of currency. While yes currently you wouldn't do well without out it, thats because the majority of the populace has mindlessly accepted it as a way of life thinking its the only way of resource management when thats just pure fud.

[KiwiNZ]

Oh and what makes you think your head isn't in the sand? We have survived way back as hunter gathers and money wasn't necessary. I'm not suggesting we go back to that manner of living I am merely pointing out there are indeed ways of surviving and resource management that doesn't involve the use of currency. While yes currently you wouldn't do well without out it, thats because the majority of the populace has mindlessly accepted it as a way of life thinking its the only way of resource management when thats just pure fud.

So you have decided that the majority of the population is mindless. Talk about incredibly arrogant and incredibly insulting.:rolleyes:

[Chronon]

Surely neither money nor any other inanimate thing can be a source of evil. Evil is a quality we ascribe to the actions or intentions of a conscious/sentient being. So while love of money or other things may be a root of evil, the thing itself cannot be. That is, remove the sentient being who covets the object and you have removed the prospect for evil.

[MasterNetra]

So you have decided that the majority of the population is mindless. Talk about incredibly arrogant and incredibly insulting.:rolleyes:

I didn't say they were I merely pointed out the decision to blindly accept the currency system was a mindless decision (your reading into something thats not there). As people in general tend to be raised up in it and generally don't think about questioning it, usually not until they end up losing everything or are not doing so well in it in general.

[lisati]

Now now! Let's keep things friendly! :D

Money itself isn't necessarily evil. It's just a tool. People's attitude to it and how they use it are probably more of a problem than the money itself.

[Chronon]

So you have decided that the majority of the population is mindless. Talk about incredibly arrogant and incredibly insulting.:rolleyes:

That seems like a mischaracterization. One can perform a given act mindlessly without being mindless. In fact, a human cannot really be mindless. It is perfectly possible to accept something mindlessly, however.

I also don't view it as insulting to suggest that features common to modern cultures might be accepted without deep consideration by those who were raised in those cultures.

"Doing well" is only meaningful within a given context (usually cultural). It shouldn't surprise anyone that people acculturated to modern societies might view the standard or style of living of pre-monetary societies as somewhat short of "doing well". Nonetheless, it is plainly true that survival does not intrinsically depend on any sort of money counter.

[MasterNetra]

That seems like a mischaracterization. One can perform a given act mindlessly without being mindless. In fact, a human cannot really be mindless. It is perfectly possible to accept something mindlessly, however.

I also don't view it as insulting to suggest that features common to modern cultures might be accepted without deep consideration by those who were raised in those cultures.

"Doing well" is only meaningful within a given context (usually cultural). It shouldn't surprise anyone that people acculturated to modern societies might view the standard or style of living of pre-monetary societies as somewhat short of "doing well". Nonetheless, it is plainly true that survival does not intrinsically depend on any sort of money counter.

Exactly.

[KiwiNZ]

Thankfully the current working system will change in foreseeable future.

[WinterRain]

Thankfully the current working system will change in foreseeable future.
What a revelation. :rolleyes:

[JDShu]

I don't really think this topic can be answered objectively in this forum given the rules. Ie. We need a definition for "Evil" which brings us to a debate about what morality is.

Therefore I will give my own opinion. Money may not be the root of ALL evil, but it sure is behind a whole lot of them!

[HermanAB]

Nope, that quote is all wrong headed. This is the correct version:


The lack of money is the root of all evil.

and of course:

Work is the bane of the drinking classes.

[koenn]

Women is the root of all evil
money is bad, but it's legal

( Dr John, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iJC_2Xv2yI )

[papangul]

Money is to human society is what blood is to human body.(till we have a better system in place)

The real problem is that human mind has a great propensity to fall into delusions/perversions. As long as this is not taken care of, evil will stay alive & kicking, irrespective of whatever system is introduced.(That's exactly the message in my signature)

[pmlxuser]

forgot who said it, but went something like this " Money can't buy you happiness, but it let you be sad in nice places" The moral ... Its not the money that is evil its just the Human mind, which uses it in an evil way.

[cascade9]

I'm not overly fond of money, but I wouldnt blame it for 'all evil' I dont think that any single source could be blamed on that...but if I was forced to pick just one, it wouldnt be money, it would be power.


Oh and what makes you think your head isn't in the sand? We have survived way back as hunter gathers and money wasn't necessary in fact it didn't exist. I'm not suggesting we go back to that manner of living I am merely pointing out there are indeed ways of surviving and resource management that doesn't involve the use of currency. While yes currently you wouldn't do well without out it, thats because the majority of the populace has mindlessly accepted it as a way of life thinking its the only way of resource management when thats just pure fud.

Cutting fine line there.....

'Money' per say might not have existed as hunter/gatherers (and that is very debatable) but trade, etc sure did. There isnt that much difference between 'I'll give you $X for that fish', 'I'll give you this bit of metal/pretty rock for that a few of those fish' or 'I'll give you this chert/flint/obsidian for a big pile of those fish'

[murderslastcrow]

I think it's funny that people don't question money, as if it always existed, and as if it's necessary in the modern age. Consider how much food grocery stores throw out compared to how many they serve due to money. Oh, thank goodness.

Our society could function at its present state without money. If we succeeded, it would only get easier with time.

If not eliminate money, we need to realize that it's not under the same controls and balance it once was, and we're letting a bank tell us what our money's worth. It won't be long before we realize that it's not us being poor economists- it's the economy itself, the principles it's currently working under that generate many of these issues.

Aside from that, the quote from the Bible is, "the love of money is the root of all evil." Not money itself.

[KiwiNZ]

I think it's funny that people don't question money, as if it always existed, and as if it's necessary in the modern age. Consider how much food grocery stores throw out compared to how many they serve due to money. Oh, thank goodness.

Our society could function at its present state without money. If we succeeded, it would only get easier with time.

If not eliminate money, we need to realize that it's not under the same controls and balance it once was, and we're letting a bank tell us what our money's worth. It won't be long before we realize that it's not us being poor economists- it's the economy itself, the principles it's currently working under that generate many of these issues.

Aside from that, the quote from the Bible is, "the love of money is the root of all evil." Not money itself.

Banks don't set the value of currency , market forces set the value.

[velle frak]

Men is the root of all evil.

[murderslastcrow]

I was talking about the Federal Reserve Bank, not banks in general.

[amitabhishek]

Yes money does give you 'root' access in life.

[KiwiNZ]

I was talking about the Federal Reserve Bank, not banks in general.

It is still market forces that sets the value. Reserve Banks rarely intervene to arbitrarily set a currency's value.

[Swagman]

The notion that nothing new would ever be invented without money is laughable.

I guess that means the cave men will still be banging stones to knock that wood stave in then ?

Goodness knows when they'll invent the Bow & Arrow let alone the wheel.

Can you see just how seriously wrong the thought pattern of not inventing anything unless money is involved. People evolve /create stuff First & Foremost because it is a better way/works better, Money is just a fringe benefit.

[KiwiNZ]

You can invent without money , but try to develop , produce and put to market without it. The invention becomes a dusty curiosity in a shed.

[Sand & Mercury]

The root of all evil is fear.

[Nick_Jinn]

I tend to think it is. It seems like most people are very concerned with making money. It seems like a universal thing. No matter where you live, or no matter where you are, money is pervasive and all-encompassing. It scares me a little bit. Thoughts? Please don't let this get too political or religious, as it will be closed quick.

???


While I dont think money is evil (its human greed that is good or evil), I do think there is a problem with our economic system.

I think the biggest problem with capitalism and even with State Communism is USERY. Usery used to be considered a mortal sin by the early christians, and now suddenly all the baptists and evangelicals are now its aplogists....how is that for fundamentals?

Usury is not ONLY about collecting interest on a loan, or collecting higher than ethical interest, its about exploiting the poor and the have nots.....usury is the system by which those who have money keep getting richer at the expense of those who do not....I am not talking about capitalism. A form of capitalism could exist without usury, and it would resemble the EARLY libertarian schools of thought (pre Austrian school) like those of Spooner and Tucker....Free markets can exist in the absence of usery.

In a world without usury, the fee for a loan would not exceed the cost of the risk + the cost of doing the paperwork and maintaining overhead.....The cost of rent would be the value of the labor that goes into maintaining a property and providing a service of housing....obviously the cost of housing in any metropolitan area exceeds this.

The worst examples of usury and the exploitation of man was in subsistence farming.....yeah, the slaves were 'freed' but without land they were still working for the man. The land owners would allow ex-slaves to farm the land in exchange for as much as 80% of the profits.....the "free" men (often talked about as progress in the history books) were sometimes still under a system of 'defacto slavery' or some form of wage slavery, in positions where the people who are already rich simply collect the benefit of the labor of others without lifting a finger themselves....this profiting off the labor of others is the epitome of slavery and exploitation. It is not synonymous with capitalism, but it seems to be rampant under capitalism.

In modern times wage slavery is the norm....and we even have a middle class of better off wage slaves....however, back in the 1800s this would be considered demeaning. Having a "job" and getting paid an hourly "wage" was in fact considered degrading to ones person...this seems like a foreign concept, until you understand that most people were self employed artisans and farmers, working for themselves on their own schedule and getting paid for the product of their labor, not for selling their time. Unless you understand the cultural significance of that its hard to understand why people of the pre-industrial revolution considered the modern method of 'employment' to be a form of chattel slavery.


The real evil is money is in the exploitation of humanity. Trade is not evil. Prosperity isnt evil. What is evil is usury and the exploitation of humanity or the planet for personal gain through illegitimate means...and yet values have changed and we somehow accept usury as legitimate while for most of our history these hierarchal relationships would be rejected as inherently unjust.

[wojox]

All we need is Love, man.

[RiceMonster]

To the people claiming money isn't necessary or that we should get rid of it:

What is your proposed way of dealing without money? I think it's safe to say that if you post here, you like computers. How are we going to mass produce something like processors without some sort of currency to pay the people to do it? How are you going to compensate them? Or are you going to propose that local mom and pops shops start making computers? When I go to buy a compuer, what's the value? A box of bananas, and I paint their garage door? Unless you're going to propose we somehow reverse globalization, that simply will not work.

[JDShu]

Usury is not ONLY about collecting interest on a loan, or collecting higher than ethical interest, its about exploiting the poor and the have nots.....usury is the system by which those who have money keep getting richer at the expense of those who do not....I am not talking about capitalism. A form of capitalism could exist without usury, and it would resemble the EARLY libertarian schools of thought (pre Austrian school) like those of Spooner and Tucker....Free markets can exist in the absence of usery.

In a world without usury, the fee for a loan would not exceed the cost of the risk + the cost of doing the paperwork and maintaining overhead.....The cost of rent would be the value of the labor that goes into maintaining a property and providing a service of housing....obviously the cost of housing in any metropolitan area exceeds this.


Everything has a cost, including time. Interest is the cost of time.

[Sporkman]

I think the original quote ran more like "Greed is the root of all evil". Subtle but important difference.

[Nick_Jinn]

Everything has a cost, including time. Interest is the cost of time.


Everyone should be compensated for the product of their labor. If you work to produce something, you should be compensated for it.

I am not against paying a fee for the service of receiving a loan. Usury is a more complicated issue than that.....subsistence farming where those who work the land get 20% and those who own the land perpetually get 80% is an arrangement of usury where those in power continually exploit those who produce to maintain their class privilege.


I believe in free markets btw. I am not a state communist. If anything I am a Syndicalist who believes in free markets within a system of mutualism.

[RiceMonster]

I think the original quote ran more like "Greed is the root of all evil". Subtle but important difference.

I think that's what it really comes down to. Even without money, there is still levels of power to be sought and material posessions to be gained. People are still going to fight and abuse others.

[Sporkman]

I recall a similar concept associated with Buddhism (experts please correct me, I may be wrong): "Desire is the root of unhappiness".

That is, wanting things you don't have leads to negative results, whereas if you can let go of your desires & appreciate what you have, you'll be better off.

This is more a "bottom up" concept, compared to the more "top down" aspect of the "greed" concept. :)

[nrs]

Passing the blame to a piece of paper, an inanimate object is beyond silly, it does nothing by itself. Human beings are the only (known) beings capable of evil. I don't consider this misanthropic -- we're also the only beings capable of good -- just a matter of fact.

Good and evil are a human creation and can only be expressed via humans.

[infestor]

yes money (greed, power whatever you call) is root of evil...but then again we are all motivated towards more money. so we are evil by nature. throughout the struggle for more money some succeed most fail, and then within those failed ones good might surface from time to time.

[Sporkman]

yes money (greed, power whatever you call) is root of evil...

money,power!=greed

Greed is a human motivation, whereas money & power are societal concepts.

[Nano Geek]

I'm sure someone has said this already, but here's my (unorigional) take.

Greed/lust is the root of all evil.

How's that?

[Groucho Marxist]

I feel that it is overly simplistic to regard all evil as being derived from paper or coined money.
With that in mind, I believe that the real root of evil comes from personal motivation and how money is perceived and utilized in society. As previously stated, paper or coined monies are piles of cotton* or metals. Due to human societies investing value into them, we desire money so as to have power or control over other people; the evil lies not in the items but in what possess people to acquire them in the first place.

Money is, for many, a means to an end. That end could mean increased influence, power or material gratification (to name a few possibilities). If one possesses a ruthless drive, then any heinous actions can be cloaked behind the pursuit of profit. Despite the usually dismal consequences of said reckless pursuit, money would not be the root of all evil, but a channel or conduit towards increasing whatever was the original goal in the first place.

Bearing this in mind, I believe in a variation that carries a dramatically different outlook. I believe that money is a means to a beginning. So, when I make commission on broadcast sales or sell things on eBay, I take my earnings and either donate them or invest in materials which can enrich my life and benefit others. A case in point would be taking my earnings and purchasing programming textbooks so that I may learn computer languages to create FOSS programs for anyone's benefit.

*This is why when you leave a few dollars in your pocket when you wash your clothing, they don't disintegrate. :)

[Eisenwinter]

I think that in today's world, money is required only for use of technology.

For example, a house is a product of technology. Want to live in a nice house, with electricity, air conditioning, own a computer, TV, gaming console, and so forth? You need money.

But, money is not required for basic survival.

I can build my own shelter. I can grow my own food.

That's all I need for basic survival.

Technology is a luxury right now. You know how they say that 75% of the world's population does not have a computer? That's because they don't have enough money.

But they still manage to survive, by growing their own food, and living in houses they built themselves, out of wood and paper and tin.

Money is not the single root of all evil. Money is used today by governments in order to maintain social order and control.

You owe the government money? They own you.

Religion is also one of the roots of evil, as it used for social manipulation and brainwashing.

[BigSilly]

I recall a similar concept associated with Buddhism (experts please correct me, I may be wrong): "Desire is the root of unhappiness".

That is, wanting things you don't have leads to negative results, whereas if you can let go of your desires & appreciate what you have, you'll be better off.

This is more a "bottom up" concept, compared to the more "top down" aspect of the "greed" concept. :)

I believe it's 'desire is the cause of all human suffering', but again that may be paraphrasing. It makes sense though.

[Phrea]

Well, at least that song is the root of all evil, it's now stuck in my head ! :'(

[Swagman]

Well, at least that song is the root of all evil, it's now stuck in my head ! :'(

You talkin bout money money,
You talkin bout money money
You talkin bout money money money monaaaaaaay ?

[lykwydchykyn]

Leaving aside that 'evil' is still undefined, I find it interesting to watch this thread and see that responses break down predictably into two camps.

The first camp believes that evil originates in social, authoritative, or financial systems, and that by perfecting (the Utopian ideal) or removing (the "Noble Savage" ideal) these systems, we can eradicate evil.

The second camp believes that evil is originates in the human heart, and is a question of choices we make. Evil can only be eradicated if each person eradicates it internally; a truly good person could not be corrupted by any external circumstance or system, and a truly evil person could practice evil regardless of circumstances or systems.

The different wordings for the axiom highlight this distinction: to say "money is the root" puts you in the first camp; to say "the love of money is the root" puts you in the second.

Of course, without a definition, the origin and eradication of evil is moot.

[Phrea]

You talkin bout money money,
You talkin bout money money
You talkin bout money money money monaaaaaaay ?

You are a horrible, horrible person. ;)

[kamaboko]

The root of all evil is an update that hoses my wifi connection and webcam.

[WinterRain]

This thread amuses me. That's why I started it, because I knew it was semi-original, and would get a bunch of people's panties in a bunch. I couldn't care less about what "the root of all evil" is. Carry on entertaining me. Even though admitting this will probably spell the demise of said thread. Oh well.

[juancarlospaco]

Yes, give it all to me, im already evil, so im inmmunneeeeee...

[RiceMonster]

This thread amuses me. That's why I started it, because I knew it was semi-original, and would get a bunch of people's panties in a bunch. I couldn't care less about what "the root of all evil" is. Carry on entertaining me. Even though admitting this will probably spell the demise of said thread. Oh well.

Translation: People disagreed with me, so now that I'm upset, I'm just going to act like I wanted to cause drama.

The best part is there wasn't really anyone with their "panties in a bunch".

[Penguin Guy]

Root of all evil? That's a bit steep isn't it?

Also, the fact that the original quote was:

The love of money is the root of all evil.

And you've changed it to:

Is money the root of all evil?

Implies that you believe that all currency should simply be, discontinued... Is this correct?

[Penguin Guy]

This thread amuses me. That's why I started it, because I knew it was semi-original, and would get a bunch of people's panties in a bunch. I couldn't care less about what "the root of all evil" is. Carry on entertaining me. Even though admitting this will probably spell the demise of said thread. Oh well.Translation: People disagreed with me, so now that I'm upset, I'm just going to act like I wanted to cause drama.

The best part is there wasn't really anyone with their "panties in a bunch".
+1, who finds amusement in philosophical debate?

[ubunterooster]

"thou shalt have no money; everything is everyone's: ???

Evil is the intention (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intention) of causing harm or destruction while threatening or deliberately violating morality (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morality).

Money is any object that is generally accepted as payment (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Payment) for goods and services (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goods_and_services) and repayment of debts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debts)

The love of money is used as an example of GREED (a sin of excess, esp. of power and money)

In my family, much grief is caused over greed, some over money but mostly greed for power

[lykwydchykyn]

+1, who finds amusement in philosophical debate?

Yes, though not much debate here from what I can see. Just interesting to see people's thoughts.

[cascade9]

Doh, missed the intrest bit....I wish I could remember the name of the idea that appeared somehwere in 1920s germany, where there was a cunning kind of 'reverse interest'- if you didnt spend your menoy, it devalued at some rate per month (10% IIRC). That encouraged people to spend the money they had, and the more money moves around, the better for the ecconomy.


I believe it's 'desire is the cause of all human suffering', but again that may be paraphrasing. It makes sense though.

Thats a paraphrase/mistranslation of the second of the four noble truths.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Noble_Truths


Human beings are the only (known) beings capable of evil. I don't consider this misanthropic -- we're also the only beings capable of good -- just a matter of fact.

Good and evil are a human creation and can only be expressed via humans.

Heh, that depends on your definition of good and evil.

[Nick_Jinn]

Evil is the intention (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intention) of causing harm or destruction while threatening or deliberately violating morality (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morality).

I think evil is Selish Individualism....its not necessarily even harmful towards others, its just about 'me and mine' rather than universal love and holistic compassion.

Goodness is when you extend your compassion beyond your own self, and then again beyond your family and friends. Even a selfish person can be 'nice' when doing so is self serving, but that isnt true goodness. It is advantageous to be friendly and nice.....you get what you want that way, even if what you want is harmless such as good company and conversation.....but so long as the focus is selfish and about YOUR needs, you will be nice as long as it serves you and then dump people once they become inconvenient. Its when you are kind and generous when it does NOT benefit you that you know you are acting from a place of goodness rather than selfish/phony niceness.

Yes, baking somebody a cake and opening the door for them can be evil if you just want to get in their pants, or even if you dont want sex but want their company or to feel cool, but then you dont really care about them when they are down and out and need something.

[Khakilang]

The Chinese invented money so are they the root of all evil?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Chinese_inventions

and here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banknote

[cascade9]

The Chinese invented money so are they the root of all evil?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Chinese_inventions

and here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banknote

Thats just paper money. As for who 'invented' (non-paper) money, thats very debatable, but its was probably the Sumerians-


The Sumer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sumer) civilization developed a large scale economy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy) based on commodity money (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodity_money). The Babylonians (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babylonians) and their neighboring city states (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_states) later developed the earliest system of economics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economics) as we think of it today, in terms of rules on debt (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debt), legal contracts and law codes relating to business practices and private property.[5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_money#cite_note-Sheila-4)[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_money#cite_note-5)

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_money#cite_note-5)
The Code of Hammurabi (Codex Hammurabi), the best preserved ancient law code (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_code), was created ca. 1760 BC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1760_BC) (middle chronology (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_chronology)) in ancient Babylon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babylon). It was enacted by the sixth Babylonian king, Hammurabi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hammurabi). Earlier collections of laws include the codex of Ur-Nammu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_of_Ur-Nammu), king of Ur (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ur) (ca. 2050 BC), the Codex of Eshnunna (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Codex_of_Eshnunna&action=edit&redlink=1) (ca. 1930 BC) and the codex of Lipit-Ishtar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lipit-Ishtar) of Isin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isin) (ca. 1870 BC).[7] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_money#cite_note-yale2-6) These law codes formalized the role of money in civil society (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_society). They set amounts of interest on debt... fines for 'wrong doing'... and compensation in money for various infractions of formalized law.


The Shekel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shekel) referred to an ancient unit of weight and currency. The first usage of the term came from Mesopotamia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesopotamia) circa 3000 BC. and referred to a specific mass of barley (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barley) which related other values in a metric (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metric_%28mathematics%29) such as silver, bronze, copper etc. A barley/shekel was originally both a unit of currency (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Currency) and a unit of weight, just as the British Pound was originally a unit denominating a one pound mass of silver.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_money

Its quite possible that money existed in some form before that, but that is going well in prehistory so evidence is scare...at best.

[Cason]

The actual quote is:


Subtle but important difference.

Indeed! Money is just a tool; it's your attitude about it and/or your actions using it that determine the morality of the issue.

[Nick_Jinn]

I think Babylon was the fight nation that had a codified national economy and taxes.

China was the first to have paper money.

Coins are pretty old, older than Babylon, but the metals themselves were precious regardless of whose mark was on them.


But yeah, its greed and exploitation that is evil (usury), not necessarily the money itself.....*snip*

[mebomechanicno1]

Has anyone so far pointed out that it is the love of money that is the root of all evil?

[mebomechanicno1]

Not that I'm counting, but I am curious, can any one tell me why my bean count has stayed at 6 for the last 3 posts?

[ubunterooster]

Yes it has been noted; and the reason your beans have not increased is that posts in the Cafe ( as opposed to support areas) do not increase bean count

[Nano Geek]

Posts in the Cafe don't count. Only support forums give you more beans.

EDIT: Arg...beat me to it.

[endotherm]

yes and no. too catogorical a statement to have a binary answer, much like this "proof":



Money = sqrt(evil)
Girls = Time * Money
Time = Money
Girls = Money * Money = sqrt(evil) * sqrt(evil)
Girls = Evil
(for any ladies on the thread simply s/Girls/Guys)

[desdd57]

The "quote" from Paqman:"The love of money is the root of all evil" (found in 1st Timothy 6:10). Doesn't actually say that money is evil - but that the LOVE of money - is the root etc.

Money is a passive usable thing ! We - the users of it can be the cause of the evil, by our greed etc

[Sporkman]

Is money in all_evil's sudoer's file?

[mebomechanicno1]

Is money in all_evil's sudoer's file?

I really am very new to this, so please do excuse me for taking this thread off-topic, but what exactly is a "sudoer's" file? And is that apostrophe intended to signify the possessive or is it a wayward pluralisation, as "Banana's ten pence a pound" (Sorry ten pence per .455kilo)

[endotherm]

I really am very new to this, so please do excuse me for taking this thread off-topic, but what exactly is a "sudoer's" file? And is that apostrophe intended to signify the possessive or is it a wayward pluralisation, as "Banana's ten pence a pound" (Sorry ten pence per .455kilo)
the sudoers basically lists the people that may use sudo and some other configurations that may allow you to forgo password on an specific app, etc.

no the apostrophe is not supposed to be there. its plural, not possessive.

[Sporkman]

the sudoers basically lists the people that may use sudo and some other configurations that may allow you to forgo password on an specific app, etc.

no the apostrophe is not supposed to be there. its plural, not possessive.

I think he was being fecesish... :P

[papangul]

I recall a similar concept associated with Buddhism (experts please correct me, I may be wrong): "Desire is the root of unhappiness".

That is, wanting things you don't have leads to negative results, whereas if you can let go of your desires & appreciate what you have, you'll be better off.
Nice reading that (brief and to the point). :)

A new approach has developed lately, that "Unhappiness is the root of desire".
For example, after reading your post, a desire to "get rid of all desires"* has arisen in me, because I am unhappy and I want to be happy.

This is a vicious cycle, desires cause unhappiness and unhappiness fuels desires.(quite like the case of a dog chasing it's own tail.)

The way out is to understand:
1.the meaning of "desire" in this context.
2.the nature of "happiness".

1. The dictionary meaning of "desire" is basically "to want". According to that definition every action is preceded by a desire. For example, before moving my hand from "here" to "there", I have to wish(desire) that my hand moves from "here" to "there".

In the particular context of the above buddhist statement, "desire" means "wishes that are over and above our needs or necessities". The point to be noted here is that "needs" are limited and can be fulfilled but "desires" are unlimited & infinite and cannot be fulfilled.

2."Happiness" is just like "health". Health is defined as the absence if illness. That means "health" is the normal state of affairs, while "illness" is an abnormal state. One can stay healthy if just one's "needs" are fulfilled.

Similarly "happiness" should be considered as the normal state of affairs and one can be happy just if the needs are taken care of. This also sets the vicious cycle in the opposite direction. A happy person attracts more happiness towards him like a magnet.


The message to people is to relax and enjoy life after the needs are fulfilled. Buddha demonstrated this by being an example himself. He was a prince but he became a beggar and he was happy.
Here (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/the-happiest-man-in-the-world-433063.html) is another happy man.


*When Buddha made the original desire statement in the course of a lecture, one person from the audience actually asked him that, "Now I have a desire to be desireless, what to do about that?".

[WinterMadness]

Without human greed, we wouldn't have today's technology.

so the guy who invented the wheel, or fire expected a nice paycheck?

[Nano Geek]

so the guy who invented the wheel, or fire expected a nice paycheck?Aside from the fact that fire was a discovery not an invention, I would assume so. Of course, no one knows who developed the first wheel, so it would be impossible to know their motives. However, any modern invention is created by people hoping to become rich from it.

[koenn]

However, any modern invention is created by people hoping to become rich from it.
not really. The worldwide web was invented by a researcher who wanted easy (remote, platform-independent, ...) access to/exchange of documentation.

I'm sure there are quite a few other examples like that.

[theraje]

Money is an inanimate object, it has no power. It is the lust for money, and the degrees of stupidity that one will go through to get it, that are evil.

It is purely natural to compete to be the alpha and to want everything available. It isn't exactly exclusive to humanity. So, could it be nature itself that is evil? Or perhaps the inability to effectively "escape" from it?

My opinion: Who cares. Both money and the desire for money are there, and always will be. No way to change that fact. Just do the best you can according to your own principles and philosophy.

[giddyup306]

I would disagree. The root of all evil is intolerance of other human beings. I'm not trying to get into a religious or philosophical debate here (although if you want to PM me that's fine), but keep in mind that there are people that hold beliefs as strong as yours, but opposite. I'm saying that about any religion. ;)

[Nano Geek]

not really. The worldwide web was invented by a researcher who wanted easy (remote, platform-independent, ...) access to/exchange of documentation.

I'm sure there are quite a few other examples like that.OK, you got me there.
However, many inventions were created with the hopes of making money for the inventor.

[alphaamanitin]

Money cannot be the root of all evil. It is an inanimate object. It has no free will, no mind, no emotions, and no plan. Also, money was created by people so even if you agree that money is the root of all evil you must look at those who created it. It seems that this thread is doing a lot of anthropomorphizing-though not everyone is. Money being the root of all evil makes no more sense than a rock being the root of all evil, or air, or any other inanimate object.

I also do not agree with the original quote that the "love of money[...]." Loving money does not inherently have to be evil and I would think that would need to be true for the love of money to be the root of all evil.

AlphaA

[alphaamanitin]

Aside from the fact that fire was a discovery not an invention, I would assume so. Of course, no one knows who developed the first wheel, so it would be impossible to know their motives. However, any modern invention is created by people hoping to become rich from it.


I would say the original poster really meant the persons (because I am sure it has been independently done multiple times) who invented a method of reliably starting fire. Again I would go with multiple persons inventing the wheel.

AlphA

I think this thread is basically dead.

[Nick_Jinn]

A lot of things were invented for reasons other than money. Money is just one motivator. There are other motivations.

Excessive desire is the root of suffering, and money is an object of desire. Excessive desire can cause you unhappiness and even cause you to do wrong to your fellow man.

We can escape greed and excessive hunger by finding nowness and contentedness in the present moment, instead of looking ahead and thinking of what we DONT have. We never stop and appreciate what we already ave.

A lot of things in this life cannot be bought with money but are still objects of desire.

[eriktheblu]

Currency is possibly the greatest human invention ever. It is a universal metric of value. It can literally be used to compare apples to oranges.

Barter systems stifle trade because you may only trade when you have something another wants. Without trade, there is no call for innovation. Money as the facilitator of trade is a facilitator of innovation.

Use of money is the most important sign of civilization. Money is the social contract between people. We agree to exchange our goods and services for this more or less arbitrary token with the faith that we will later be able to exchange it for the goods and services provided by others.

Money is the most noble of human creations. It is the root of all civilization.

Greed is the root of all evil.

[Jaecyn42]

Personally, I think Warren Buffett says it best:


I don't have a problem with guilt about money. The way I see it is that my money represents an enormous number of claim checks on society. It is like I have these little pieces of paper that I can turn into consumption. If I wanted to, I could hire 10,000 people to do nothing but paint my picture every day for the rest of my life. And the GNP would go up. But the utility of the product would be zilch, and I would be keeping those 10,000 people from doing AIDS research, or teaching, or nursing. I don't do that though. I don't use very many of those claim checks. There's nothing material I want very much. And I'm going to give virtually all of those claim checks to charity when my wife and I die.

In other words: "Money is only as good as the purpose to which it is put."

[Nick_Jinn]

Currency is possibly the greatest human invention ever. It is a universal metric of value. It can literally be used to compare apples to oranges.

Barter systems stifle trade because you may only trade when you have something another wants. Without trade, there is no call for innovation. Money as the facilitator of trade is a facilitator of innovation.

Use of money is the most important sign of civilization. Money is the social contract between people. We agree to exchange our goods and services for this more or less arbitrary token with the faith that we will later be able to exchange it for the goods and services provided by others.

Money is the most noble of human creations. It is the root of all civilization.

Greed is the root of all evil.


There are alternatives to "money" in trade. For example, there are credit systems that are very much like money, but not exactly money.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_Exchange_Trading_Systems

Under these local exchange trading systems, a paper currency or money objects are not required.....or you could call it an alternative type of money depending on how you define it.


Anyway, our current monetary system really screws us. Every time the feds print money they ROB us. They devalue the currency by taking what we have and making it a smaller percentage of the national currency...That money that just magically appears actually comes from somewhere, and it gets filtered through the feds and banks in such a way that they are robbing us of the value of our labor. This inflicted inflation is a form of theft.

There are a lot of advantages to belonging to a buying co-op and engaging in a local trade system without the use of alternative currency (which would be illegal). The economic benefits and social networking benefits more than make up for the additional effort it requires.

[sidzen]

No, but the love of money is the root of many evils, however, according to The Book. ;)

[Copernicus1234]

Its necessary to have a monetary system in our current state of development, and while its creating a lot of evil things, its also a force of motivation. People used to be motivated to find food so they would survive. Now we are motivated to find money so we can get a better life and more freedom and control of it. To get more money, we have to do better than average in our jobs.

But I personally think we are close to some very important revelations that will change everything. Just wait a few years. :)

Money is far from the only motivation however. There are plenty of people who write code on their spare time and give the software away for free, as you may have noticed. That is because being recognized and contributing to other peoples happiness can be even more rewarding than money. It can also be used to boost your career in the field.

[inobe]

you can find some remote place and live off the land for free out of harms way, raise your own livestock and grow your own veggies, build a home, build a family and keep them out of harms way, live a full healthy life.

you wouldn't need a red cent.

or pay for an already built home and purchase already made foods and/ or already slaughtered animals, and pay for someone to cook it for you.

money is that of only a luxury.

personally i think people are just lazy and want someone to slaughter livestock for them, cut their grass, shovel coal into a coal fire power plant to give them energy so they can watch tv of someone else they pay to perform for them.

now the few that are childish/ immature or neanderthal thrive off off greed and deception, folks like these will do anything to get as much of this currency as possible, all because they don't wish to lift a finger and attempt to live an honest and prosperous life.

statistics say the less you do physically will kill, okay you can be rich and have an active lifestyle but nothing to fight for but money, then when health decays they search for a medical doctor to pay so that he/ she can save hiss *** because he sat on it all his life and ate the crap someone precooked for him.

ultimately the the price of evil is money and it's up to many to decide wither or not they belong there.

[abdulapopoola]

Money is good if used for good purposes but it really shouldn't be the driving force in our lives.

[inobe]

money only matters if we are in there, getting out of there would reveal what life is truly about.

leave, you can come back if you wish' but i guarantee many will.

[eriktheblu]

There are alternatives to "money" in trade. For example, there are credit systems that are very much like money, but not exactly money.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_Exchange_Trading_Systems

Under these local exchange trading systems, a paper currency or money objects are not required.....or you could call it an alternative type of money depending on how you define it.
It's still money; an arbitrary metric of value agreed upon for the purpose of trade.

[sanderella]

Correct translation :The greed for money is a root of all kinds of evil.

http://www.learnthebible.org/the-love-of-money-root-of-all-evil-or-all-kinds-of-evil.html

[irv]

Correct translation :The greed for money is a root of all kinds of evil.

http://www.learnthebible.org/the-love-of-money-root-of-all-evil-or-all-kinds-of-evil.html
I am not disagreeing with you, but the exact quote is:

For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil...

[donkyhotay]

Sorry if this has already been suggested (I don't want to read this entire thread) but if money is the root of all evil... then wouldn't that mean that money squared is all evil? Anyways, as I see on even this page according to "the book" it is the love of money that is the root of all evil, not the money itself.

[Shining Arcanine]

I tend to think it is. It seems like most people are very concerned with making money. It seems like a universal thing. No matter where you live, or no matter where you are, money is pervasive and all-encompassing. It scares me a little bit. Thoughts? Please don't let this get too political or religious, as it will be closed quick.

???

My thought is that you are confusing cause and effect. People in general are concerned about their economic wellness, so they try to have an income that involves obtaining money. The cause is their concern. Obtaining money is the effect.

[irv]

Sorry if this has already been suggested (I don't want to read this entire thread) but if money is the root of all evil... then wouldn't that mean that money squared is all evil? Anyways, as I see on even this page according to "the book" it is the love of money that is the root of all evil, not the money itself.

100% correct! It is the Love of the stuff that bring on all kinds of evil.
The book also answers the question, "where do wars come from?"
Answer, "You have not! And you want!" (I want your money, cause I love the stuff, so give me your or I will kill you.) Is this what war is all about?

[koenn]

100% correct! It is the Love of the stuff that bring on all kinds of evil.
The book also answers the question, "where do wars come from?"
Answer, "You have not! And you want!" (I want your money, cause I love the stuff, so give me your or I will kill you.) Is this what war is all about?

That's a bit simplistic, isn't it ?
What if war is "foreign policy by non-political means" ?

And what is that book you refer to?

[donkyhotay]

That's a bit simplistic, isn't it ?
What if war is "foreign policy by non-political means" ?

And what is that book you refer to?

It's the religious text the quote comes from, to avoid a religious discussion I'll just leave it at that.

[Hyporeal]

No, but the love of money is the root of many evils, however, according to The Book. ;)

A quick search reveals that this has been stated many times throughout the thread. What is the purpose of this distinction, if not to protect our much-loved money from being blamed for evil?

[SNYP40A1]

Money is not the root of all evil, people are...get rid of all people and you have no evil...aside from natural disasters, animals eating each other, death, disease, and global warming.

[koenn]

A quick search reveals that this has been stated many times throughout the thread. What is the purpose of this distinction, if not to protect our much-loved money from being blamed for evil?

... and in stead blame it all on love.

[irv]

Money is not the root of all evil, people are...get rid of all people and you have no evil...aside from natural disasters, animals eating each other, death, disease, and global warming.
Everyone is lucky, I am not a god and that's with a small "g", because I would have gotten rid of the whole thing and started all over again.:p

[SNYP40A1]

Everyone is lucky, I am not a god and that's with a small "g", because I would have gotten rid of the whole thing and started all over again.:p

If I was god, I'd have no idea what I would do because I would not be me. :-) But if everyone is "lucky" that you don't destroy all of creation, then that implies that they are deriving some benefit from living. Otherwise, if there existence was doomed to contain more suffering than happiness, then would they not be better of not living? So if overall, there is more happiness than sadness (or the potential for more happiness than sadness), isn't that a good reason to at least continue existence?

To answer the original question, it's not money that is the root of all evil. It's just that sometimes, like all tools, money can be used for good or bad causes. This has probably been said before somewhere in the previous pages.

[nepalnt21]

no but evil is the root of all money

[Mr. Picklesworth]

Is money the root of all evil?

Nope. Greed is, and money is a medium that transports it.

If I had to point at a specific property of money that enhances greed, it would be "interest" and the subsequent obsession with growth; two imaginary things that have gone way out of hand.

If money was reinvented with what we now know, by smart, selfless people with no attachment to today's system of economics, I think the result would be good.

[milkylinuxer]

I tend to think it is. It seems like most people are very concerned with making money. It seems like a universal thing. No matter where you live, or no matter where you are, money is pervasive and all-encompassing. It scares me a little bit. Thoughts? Please don't let this get too political or religious, as it will be closed quick.

???

The people that make money are using the others and contributing to nothing to this world.

The people that are not paid, do the job, are creative and accurate, wanted to do well what they have too. Those do the real job. Those are not paid.

This is by a sketch:
http://www.cartoonstock.com/lowres/rde0043l.jpg

[KiwiNZ]

The people that make money are using the others and contributing to nothing to this world.

The people that are not paid, do the job, are creative and accurate, wanted to do well what they have too. Those do the real job. Those are not paid.

This is by a sketch:
http://www.cartoonstock.com/lowres/rde0043l.jpg

Nonsense.

Without those who create business or invest in business there would be no work for the others to do.

Those with money contribute immensely to this World, ever heard of Tax's , Donations in addition to the above?

[Khakilang]

Name me three thing you can't buy with money. But people will do evil thing for it.

[grahammechanical]

I agree with the man who said "For a root of all kinds of evil is the LOVE of money." A very rich king once said, "A mere lover of silver will not be satisfied with silver." I have noted the truthfulness of that comment. And yet he also said that money is for a protection as wisdom is a protection. So, there you are.

[Nick_Jinn]

Nonsense.

Without those who create business or invest in business there would be no work for the others to do.

Those with money contribute immensely to this World, ever heard of Tax's , Donations in addition to the above?



It kind of goes both ways.


Proudhon who was one of the most lucid and ignored economic and political theorists of his day acknowledged the need for creative innocation and providing capital, but saw an alternative to plutocracy.....the plutocrats are the REAL lazy-do nothings.....Those whose wealth is multiplied through usury rather than through their own labor and innovation....no, thinking up new ways to screw the poor is not "innovation" and its not "work" either, even if its difficult and time consuming.


There is an alternative to having rich people control all the funding for innovation....Its called community credit unions, and it works. The largest corporation in Spain is pretty much THE economic center of the entire Basque region and its a federation of co-ops, kind of like Linux.

And believe it or not, it is NOT true that the rich provide most of the ideas and innovation. They buy the ideas from inventors, and hire advisors to tell them what a good idea is....dumbasses. When they hire the wrong people our entire economy goes down the crapper, because our society is backwards. The people who are creative just need free time and resources to create.....working them to the bone just to pay an over priced rent so the rich can have more wealth isnt helping......trickle down economics has been irrefutably disproven by history.


So yeah, community credit unions teaming up with a federation of labor, not a planned economy but a community based commonwealth, this can provide the best middle path between direct democracy and social justice. We need to pull our money away from the profiteers and give it to the community co-ops and credit unions, start buying locally and supporting local artisans and farmers.

These are steps we can take to create a more humane society.


And promote linux. It has better ideals than the dominant technocrats.

[DrBlob]

I tend to think it is. It seems like most people are very concerned with making money. It seems like a universal thing. No matter where you live, or no matter where you are, money is pervasive and all-encompassing. It scares me a little bit. Thoughts? Please don't let this get too political or religious, as it will be closed quick.

???
Microsoft, pure evil, and it costs due to people wanting to be RICH
Ubuntu, amazing, free because linux people are NOT evil:D

[irv]

I agree with the man who said "For a root of all kinds of evil is the LOVE of money." A very rich king once said, "A mere lover of silver will not be satisfied with silver." I have noted the truthfulness of that comment. And yet he also said that money is for a protection as wisdom is a protection. So, there you are.

I am that man who made this statement, and if you are talking about the king I am thinking about, he was a wise and rich man and had everything, and yet he said, "Vanity of vanities; all is vanity." And he also said, "I have seen all the works that are done under the sun; and, behold, all is vanity and vexation of spirit."
So money and wealth can never bring true happiness or contentment.

[Nick_Jinn]

Solomon was according to the story a wise and rich king, but he lived a fairly debaucherous life for a time only to realize how hallow and unfufilling it is. So he turned to the spiritual life and became revered as something like a profit or sage.

Bill Gates supposedly wants to practice philanthropy, and I bet he does donate to causes now and then to keep his taxes down, but its hard to take seriously as long as his company keeps screwing the poor.

Everything about windows is designed to suck money out of your pocket. They could EASILY include something like winrar for free, something like neuro for free, like Ubuntu does, especially considering the sheer volume of bloat they already have.....so footprint is obviously not the reason for omitting it. They just want you to PAY PAY PAY for everything, so they leave you vulnerable and non-functional unless you buy more programs....sure you can find free open source alternatives, but they dont make it easy for you like Ubuntu does.



This is very typical of a corporation......A worker owned co-op like the Mondragon corporation (who has never laid off a single worker and has always turned a profit) which is based in the community will always do a better job of providing for their workers (duh) but also behaving ethically towards the communities they are based in rather than behaving like a corporation that is only concerned with its bottom line and shareholders.

[phrostbyte]

And here I thought Microsoft was the root of all evil. :)

[Stan_1936]

Without human greed, we wouldn't have today's technology.

Just remember one thing.....a LOT of people will NEVER be able to afford to have(buy) the latest Ferrari(today's technology). Replace we with some people.


I tend to think it is. It seems like most people are very concerned with making money. It seems like a universal thing. No matter where you live, or no matter where you are, money is pervasive and all-encompassing. It scares me a little bit. Thoughts? Please don't let this get too political or religious, as it will be closed quick.

???

ANSWER: Yes.

[carl_pr]

Money is not the problem, neither is having much of it. It's greed, most people are greedy. Aren't we all mostly, people want luxury cars, big homes, the latest technology gadgets, designer clothes and we don't help others in need or appreciate what is important. Money is not the problem, is the love for it.


One example I see all days. My friend have a beautiful daughter 10 months old, all the times he say like if ill be millionaire I wouldn't be living like this, this trash car I have, I would have one nicer if I had money. Then he miss the important stuff, the daughter and love of his family. So yea money is the root of all evil because we love it, we want it, we desire it. We envy others when they have nicer things, ect ect...

[cyclonehd2]

I tend to think it is. It seems like most people are very concerned with making money. It seems like a universal thing. No matter where you live, or no matter where you are, money is pervasive and all-encompassing. It scares me a little bit. Thoughts? Please don't let this get too political or religious, as it will be closed quick.

???

No. Satan is. Fact.

[sisco311]

http://ompldr.org/tYnpyNw (http://ompldr.org/vYnpyNw)

Thread closed.