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strangeusername
July 7th, 2010, 10:26 AM
Hi all,
I'm not sure if this is the right place to post this but here goes.

I've been following a discussion on the Ubuntu group on LinkedIn recently about what could be done to help WinXP users migrate to Ubuntu. Though there were a lot of good arguments, there were not many practical solutions.

My idea was to have an option in the LiveCD that would attempt to figure out that software the user has installed on his XP partition and give him a list of what was found, what equivalent software ubuntu has to offer (whether from canonical or not) and, most importantly, how good as an alternative these were.

The last part could be a community rating.

The point is that the user has a fairly good idea whether or not he/she will be able to "resume" life as normal after installing Ubuntu. Many users are frustrated because they couldn't get some package to work or didn't find the one they needed and eventually give up and go back to Windows.

Honestly, in some cases they can't be blamed:
A user who NEEDS visio on a daily basis will find very little comfort in Dia for example.

One who primarily has video chats over MSN with his buddies, is likely to be frustrated at the lack of video in empathy.

A heavy flash-video user might end up with severe self-inflicted injuries when his machine repeatedly freezes while visiting you-tube.

Like-wise, he who was used to a (arguably) "slick" UI and "user-friendliness" of MS Outlook will be horrified at the sight of evolution.

One who uses iTunes to buy music needs to be informed that he won't be able to run iTunes and that, no, rhythmbox cannot connect to iTunes and restore your purchased music.

I won't spend time describing any more scenarios as you got the point. I won't also describe any success stories with Ubuntu as you wouldn't be on this forum otherwise! ;)

So, I posted this idea on brainstrom.ubuntu.com. link is http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/25315/. Let me know what you think, is it worth it? is there something similar already? did i completely lose the plt? can the idea be improved? etc etc

Thanks a lot

Bye

WinRiddance
July 7th, 2010, 03:21 PM
Well, the most important point that you're missing about Linux/Ubuntu is that there's no desire and no movement to get people to switch from Windows to Ubuntu or most other Linux flavors. I'll repeat that. There is absolutely no desire to make anyone switch from something that he or she already has ... and likes.
Ubuntu is about freedom and the spirit of humanity, being able to do things together, to help one another, and so on.

If you used google proficiently you wouldn't have any problems at all finding lists of software that are comparable with MS windows based apps and in some cases even far superior to many commercial apps (Komodo-Edit is the best free Code editor that I've seen in my entire life). As a matter of fact, if you look at this link ... https://help.ubuntu.com/ ... and numerous others that are quick to be found Online, all of your suggestions/questions etc. have already been addressed. What's clearly missing, the only thing that's clearly missing, is your own involvement in finding the information that's already out there.

When I Google the term "Ubuntu" there are literally thousands upon thousands of helpful sites similar to what I've created which is more or less for those switching over from Windows, to those sites and blogs that get into the nitty gritty of Linux/Ubuntu. Ubuntu already does far more today then Windows ever will - at least in my opinion - so that any feature requests are almost insulting. You'd have to come up with 10.000 different Ubuntus to meet the needs of 10.000 different people styles with the specific features that they think should be included. As a finished, complete package that's supposed to appeal to the masses of the World, including new computer users, children, senior citizens, and handicapped people, it simply doesn't get any better than it already is ... while still striving to fit everything on a single 700 MB disk.

That's in my opinion the only thing that's holding Linux/Ubuntu back some. Whenever "the powers that be" decide to switch to DVD/USB format up to 2 GB as Windows already did with Windows Vista, then the potential for software and features will more than double. But as it stands the 700 MB limit is something that severely restricts feature and software expansions from the point of view of anyone who's strictly into using a GUI and dumping a disk into their CD Rom drive.
That's my story and I'm sticking to it. :D

strangeusername
July 7th, 2010, 04:32 PM
Well, the most important point that you're missing about Linux/Ubuntu is that there's no desire and no movement to get people to switch from Windows to Ubuntu or most other Linux flavors. I'll repeat that. There is absolutely no desire to make anyone switch from something that he or she already has ... and likes.
Ubuntu is about freedom and the spirit of humanity, being able to do things together, to help one another, and so on.

Who mentioned getting people to switch? If someone has a livecd in their cd-rom drive and rebooted into the livecd menu, then I believe it is relatively safe to assume that they intend to explore or switch to Ubuntu. The idea is about _assisting_ them in the process. Not convincing them to do so. I'm only concerned about assisting them while they are doing so, which implies they have _already_ taken a decision. Maybe I should have said "... help XP users who have decided, not under force but by their own will or through inspiration of some sorts, to switch or give Ubuntu a try, to make an informed decision and avoid any frustrations". :D


If you used google proficiently you wouldn't have any problems at all finding lists of software that are comparable with MS windows based apps and in some cases even far superior to many commercial apps (Komodo-Edit is the best free Code editor that I've seen in my entire life). As a matter of fact, if you look at this link ... https://help.ubuntu.com/ ... and numerous others that are quick to be found Online, all of your suggestions/questions etc. have already been addressed. What's clearly missing, the only thing that's clearly missing, is your own involvement in finding the information that's already out there.

Glad you like Komodo. Not that my preference is relevant to this thread, but I personally prefer vi or gedit (I find it easier to switch between multiple files in gedit)

As for my involvement I find it a bit easy on your part to jump to the conclusion that I haven't put enough effort in the process. What's even stranger is why you relate this to me? I was only concerned about the people who needed assistance. This is a feature request for the people (those mentioned in the ubuntu manifesto), not for me! ;)

I will gladly point you to one of Mark Shuttleworth's posts. The link is http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/76 and he says:
[...]the power users and the don’t-mess-with-my-system users, are already well serviced by Linux, and it’s getting better for them every six months. It’s the middle crowd – the guys who have a computer which they personally modify, attach new hardware to, and expect to interact with a variety of gadgets – that struggle. The problem, in a nutshell, is Granny’s new camera[...]


When I Google the term "Ubuntu" there are literally thousands upon thousands of helpful sites similar to what I've created which is more or less for those switching over from Windows, to those sites and blogs that get into the nitty gritty of Linux/Ubuntu. Ubuntu already does far more today then Windows ever will - at least in my opinion - so that any feature requests are almost insulting. You'd have to come up with 10.000 different Ubuntus to meet the needs of 10.000 different people styles with the specific features that they think should be included. As a finished, complete package that's supposed to appeal to the masses of the World, including new computer users, children, senior citizens, and handicapped people, it simply doesn't get any better than it already is ... while still striving to fit everything on a single 700 MB disk.

I'm not sure I understand how feature requests can be insulting. And I'm not sure why you are talking about "finished and complete packages". I'm just talking about a list (text file) that the livecd menu would query to tell the user what apps are available and how they compare to what he was used to under windows. He might not care at all but making an informed decision is usually desirable.


That's in my opinion the only thing that's holding Linux/Ubuntu back some. Whenever "the powers that be" decide to switch to DVD/USB format up to 2 GB as Windows already did with Windows Vista, then the potential for software and features will more than double. But as it stands the 700 MB limit is something that severely restricts feature and software expansions from the point of view of anyone who's strictly into using a GUI and dumping a disk into their CD Rom drive.
That's my story and I'm sticking to it. :D

I'm just talking of a few files here which wouldn't require anything even remotely close to a couple of megabytes on a squashfs filesystem. I'm also unsure about those "'powers that be' who haven't decided to move to DVD yet". Ubuntu DVD have been available for ages now, and Lucid's is 4.1Gb.

WinRiddance
July 7th, 2010, 11:44 PM
All I can say is that there's IMO nothing that needs to be changed aside from making hardware items more compatible with more computers which I believe to be more important than anything else, especially where issues of graphic driver & WiFi compatibility are concerned.

I believe that those people for whom it is most difficult to use Ubuntu are people like myself who've initially dealt with Windows and Windows related apps for 10, 15, or even more years. Everyone else just takes Ubuntu for what it is ... just like any Windows or Mac users who've never had a computer in their life before had to take those Operating Systems for what they were, not even thinking about what could be or what should be since they were far too busy just learning how to get into what they were doing in the first place.

That said, brings me back to people like myself who are already very experienced with computers, people who've had their brains indoctrinated with .bat, .com, .exe files - and viruses - and spyware - and MS based terminology over many years - that it's really quite difficult for many of those people to identify with and relate to anything Linux based ... initially. But, precisely due to the amount of past experience with Windows such users have no problem at all finding comparison software for all types of apps in a matter of minutes via Google and their web browser. As a matter of fact, I'll go as far as to say that experienced computer users would look for compatible apps before deciding to really get into Ubuntu. Can't imagine that I was the only one .... ;)

Any "comparable software list" would change over time anyway since your personal opinion may eventually differ from what Canonical/Ubuntu might recommend. A perfect example of this is the replacement of Gimp with PiTiVi in the distro. What an abysmal decision (IMO). There are several available password related apps and I think anyone with half a brain should use one. But my personal prefference happens to be Gpass over many others for whatever reason ... primarily because it's fairly close to something that I used for years with Windows. Some people swear by Abiword, others swear by OpenOffice, and so on. To make an "accurate" MS apps compatibility list for Ubuntu is just not possible since there are sometimes numerous similar choices which are really open to personal preferences and interpretation/usage.

But again, those of us who have enough experience with computers to care and know about many different types of apps and what they can do, will find such lists in a matter of minutes with the Web Browser. Whatever ....

http://wiki.linuxquestions.org/wiki/Linux_software_equivalent_to_Windows_software

https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SwitchingToUbuntu/FromWindows

https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SoftwareEquivalents

http://brucewagner.wordpress.com/2008/01/23/windows-ubuntu-applications/

PS: When I mentioned the CD versus DVD I meant the default ISO download which is being intentionally throttled to 690 MB in order to fit on a regular CD. I do believe that's what the majority of newbies use by default. If the ISO required 1.4 GB of data Ubuntu could be presented in a far more "awesome & incredible" way, which would however require a DVD since the size of the standard CD would then be surpassed ....