Apple haters ?

[MooPi]

I sense a backlash towards Apple and their products recently. Could it just be they are now the big kid on the block and everyone is starting to take shots ? Could Microsoft take a back seat to Apple ?

[Sporkman]

Partly that, plus their general un-openness. They are very secretive, proprietary, and vendor-lockin-ish.

[RiceMonster]

I think it's becomming more common to see anti-Apple posts than anti-Microsoft posts these days. Sometimes it gets a little tiresome. If you don't like it, you don't have to use it. I don't really like any Apple products either, and thus I don't use any.

[JDShu]

Lots of us just think Apple culture is funny. Anybody see the new Futurama episode?

[Crunchy the Headcrab]

I don't hate apple products. I just can't stand the annoying apple fans that think every apple product is the greatest thing on earth. My wife's father was telling me that if I wanted a laptop with similar specs to a macbook pro, that it would cost me just as much anyway. Um...no. My pc was half the price, with double the hardware of most macbooks at the time I bought it.

[Bachstelze]

My wife's father was telling me that if I wanted a laptop with similar specs to a macbook pro, that it would cost me just as much anyway. Um...no. My pc was half the price, with double the hardware of most macbooks at the time I bought it.

Does your laptop have a unibody aluminium case? A backlit keyboard? 8+ hours battery life? How thin is it? How much does it weigh?

All those things might not count as "specs" to you, but on the other hand, other people might not care whether the CPU is a Core 2 or an i7, or whether it has 2 or 4 GB of RAM.

[kamaboko]

If you thought Steve Jobs was an icon now, wait until after he dies. Apple fans will elevate him to Greek God status. Zeus and all others will report to Jobs.

[Rey117]

If you thought Steve Jobs was an icon now, wait until after he dies. Apple fans will elevate him to Greek God status. Zeus and all others will report to Jobs.

And his "innovative" body will buried in an iCasket forever....

[BigSilly]

I don't hate apple products. I just can't stand the annoying apple fans...

I say this as a Linux fan (the likes of whom are notorious for annoying and passionate evangelising!), but I have to agree. I don't care much for the products for sure; locked into their over priced hardware and services. But the worst bit is the fans who can be seen openly worshipping the Apple share prices in those scary shops. Such devotion to money and big business absolutely terrifies me. It's become a religion. Jeezuz people, reconnect with the soul before it's too late!

I've long said it (and apparently so did Jung), but to me this is symptomatic of a society in the middle of a serious depression...

[McRat]

People have been skeptical of Apple since before the Mac was released.

Apple's intent was to have you buy all your computer items from Apple and nobody else, and did their damnedest to enforce it.

For me, they are just another electronics MFR. They have some pretty cool stuff out there today, but they aren't anymore an industry trailblazer than Microsoft is. Both companies mostly watch what others do, then follow.

[Twitch6000]

Partly that, plus their general un-openness. They are very secretive, proprietary, and vendor-lockin-ish.

Oh really now..

http://www.opensource.apple.com/

That link tells me otherwise...

They also make cups which is commonly used on any *nix

[Bachstelze]

Oh really now..

http://www.opensource.apple.com/

That link tells me otherwise...

It's not on any "technology" blog, so it does not exist.

[Rey117]

I think he is talking about apple not letting you check out the hardware and software like having to jailbreak an iPod or having to send it off just to get batt replaced.

[djinnkeeper]

It's just advertising and electronics, guys.. chill out.

[Bachstelze]

I think he is talking about apple not letting you check out the hardware and software like having to jailbreak an iPod or having to send it off just to get batt replaced.

If I had a camera, I would take a pic of the inside of my MacBook for your reference. You can take out just as many parts as with the average laptop, battery included.

[LeifAndersen]

Oh really now..

http://www.opensource.apple.com/

That link tells me otherwise...

They also make cups which is commonly used on any *nix

Actually, if I remember correctly, they didn't make cups...they just patented it, saying 'anyone can use it'...while not a patent troll, I do find that rather annoying that they claim to make it.

[endotherm]

when Steve announced that they were planning on attacking OSS codecs, and that there could never ever ever be a video compression system that he or his cronies did not own patents on, I vowed to hate him unto the end of days. were these the days of the visagoths, I would lead my armies against cupertino, and salt the earth so that none may grow there again.

Apple are turning into tyrants. they used to be rebels, but now they are the ones looking autocratic. between the developer agreement, and the nebulous app store policies, they are once again trying desperately to turn any ecosystem that evolves around their products into a stagnant pool.

this is not thinking different. Dressing a borg drone up in trendy clothing does not make it cool.

[Bachstelze]

Actually, if I remember correctly, they didn't make cups...they just patented it, saying 'anyone can use it'...while not a patent troll, I do find that rather annoying that they claim to make it.

"patended it"? You just don't know what you're talking about. CUPS is a piece of software, it can be copyrighted (which is what Apple did), but not patented.

[Rey117]

If I had a camera, I would take a pic of the inside of my MacBook for your reference. You can take out just as many parts as with the average laptop, battery included.

Um I think ur missing the point... Sorry I dogged on your "macbook"..lol

[djinnkeeper]

Dressing a borg drone up in trendy clothing does not make it cool.Actually, that does sound kinda cool.. I'm doin' it!

[endotherm]

"patended it"? You just don't know what you're talking about. CUPS is a piece of software, it can be copyrighted (which is what Apple did), but not patented.
you are not in the US are you? software patents are common in many countries.

[Bachstelze]

Apple are turning into tyrants. they used to be rebels, but now they are the ones looking autocratic

Haha, no. Autocracy is a form of government. Apple is a company, not a government.

Try again.

[LeifAndersen]

Does your laptop have a unibody aluminium case? A backlit keyboard? 8+ hours battery life? How thin is it? How much does it weigh?

All those things might not count as "specs" to you, but on the other hand, other people might not care whether the CPU is a Core 2 or an i7, or whether it has 2 or 4 GB of RAM.

To me, those items are worth:

A backlit keyboard: $5 (I don't care about it at all).
Aluminium unibody case: $200 (on the condition I can keep my numpad)
Thin: $30, although I count that as part of the unibody
Weight: $30, again, I counted that as part of the unibody case.

While I know it's my personal preference, I would pay $200 on top of my laptop's current price to get it inside a mac-like unibody, not because I like the look more, but because it's more sturdy than what I currently have. With that being said though, for the same specs I bought my laptop (taking everything into account, including things such as the position of the USB ports, keyboard quality, etc. etc., as well as traditional specs such as ram, processor, etc. etc.), I would have had to pay ~$2,000 for a mac. (The price of my laptop was ~$550).

[RiceMonster]

Um I think ur missing the point... Sorry I dogged on your "macbook"..lol

If he missed the point, could you please explain what the point is?

[Ric_NYC]

Apple is worse than Microsoft! I have no doubt about it.

[endotherm]

Haha, no. Autocracy is a form of government. Apple is a company, not a government.

Try again.

https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Metaphor

once again, obviously you are not in the US. around here, companies are far more powerful than government.

[Bachstelze]

you are not in the US are you? software patents are common in many countries.

That doesn't make them the same thing as copyright. You do not patent a particular piece of software (i.e. a bunch of source code), you patent an algorithm or a similar software concept. And I'm pretty sure no patent claims have been made by Apple or anyone else regarding CUPS.

[LeifAndersen]

"patended it"? You just don't know what you're talking about. CUPS is a piece of software, it can be copyrighted (which is what Apple did), but not patented.

1. As I said, I'm going from memory...I could easily be wrong. But if you want me to, I can give you other references of things they claimed they made, or innovated, but they just bought/stole/ripped off the idea. (There's nothing wrong with ripping off an idea in my opinion, it just bothers me when companies don't admit to it if they did it), eg. spaces.

2. Yes, software can be patented, at least in the USA it can (I'm not as good on international law), with that being said though, it's very lame to have software patents. But laws != morals.

[RiceMonster]

1. As I said, I'm going from memory...I could easily be wrong. But if you want me to, I can give you other references of things they claimed they made, or innovated, but they just bought/stole/ripped off the idea. (There's nothing wrong with ripping off an idea in my opinion, it just bothers me when companies don't admit to it if they did it), eg. spaces.

I always find it amusing when people who support open source software, which is meant to be freely modified and redistributed, complain about software being "stolen".

[LeifAndersen]

Okay, so according to this, they did by the copyright to CUPS...I'm not sure what patents were associated with it though.

http://www.tuaw.com/2007/07/12/apple-buys-cups/


@RiceMonster: I'm not complaining about software being stolen. I'm complaining about people claiming they innovated something they didn't. If they didn't say it was their brilliant idea, I would be happy that Apple put spaces in OS X. In my opinion, it's great when people reuse both software, and ideas. In fact, I REALLY wish windows had workspaces built into it by default.

[Bachstelze]

1. As I said, I'm going from memory...I could easily be wrong. But if you want me to, I can give you other references of things they claimed they made, or innovated, but they just bought/stole/ripped off the idea. (There's nothing wrong with ripping off an idea in my opinion, it just bothers me when companies don't admit to it if they did it), eg. spaces.

Right. To be honest, I really couldn't care less about what Apple claims to have invented. It's just marketing, and marketing is always bulls*it to me, wherever it comes from.


2. Yes, software can be patented, at least in the USA it can (I'm not as good on international law), with that being said though, it's very lame to have software patents. But laws != morals.

I know very well what a software patent is, and as I said, it does not cover a particular program but an "idea", just like a normal patent patents a technology, not a device that uses it.

To take an example, we have the H.264 video coding format, that is protected by a software patent. Then we have several open source projects (e.g. x264) that use this format. The x264 developers own the copyright on the code they wrote, but not the patents on the H.264 format.

Copyright != software patents. Apple has bought the copyright on CUPS, but AFAIK has filed no patents regarding it. I can't explain that any clearer.

[endotherm]

I always find it amusing when people who support open source software, which is meant to be freely modified and redistributed, complain about software being "stolen".
I'm inclined to agree, but with an exception. when you assert copyright or patent abstracts based on community code (look at the DivX XviD history), that is where I draw the line. it's fine to modify and redistribute, but you can't lock the original developers out of their own project.

[RiceMonster]

I'm inclined to agree, but with an exception. when you assert copyright or patent abstracts based on community code (look at the DivX XviD history), that is where I draw the line. it's fine to modify and redistribute, but you can't lock the original developers out of their own project.

As far as I know, Apple hired the lead CUPS developer when they purchased it.

[whiskeylover]

I find it funny how when the iPhone doesn't have copy/paste and MMS, the apple fanboys say its a useless feature. But as soon as they include them in the new iPhone, the fanboys go "Now we have copy/paste and multimedia messaging. Just goes to show that Apple is the best."

Same thing happens with every release of iShiney.

[McRat]

Real patents are for actual specific devices or items that can accomplish a specific task, not concepts of how something could perhaps be done. An idea about having a vehicle accelerator is not patentable, but a gas pedal is.

Software patents are like this:

"Well, if I move my finger in a circle, maybe there is a way for a computing device to tell that it went in a circle. Please disregard the fact that geometric shape recognition algorithms have been a part of computer science teachings for 30 years, because we think it would be cool to have something do it on a telephone.

Oh, about the algorithms and source code? Sorry, my dog ate it."

[djinnkeeper]

Blah blah blah, generalization.. blah blah, fanboy.. blah blah .. then they're like.. blah blah.Can we like, I dunno.. not do this? Let's just let this stupid thread die.

[domzals1]

Can we like, I dunno.. not do this? Let's just let this stupid thread die.

Agreed, can't we just agree to disagree?? I mean we're all an the UF, which means regardless of what your opinion is on Apple, we all love Linux!!

I totally welcome a discussion over Apple and it's products but can we avoid the flaming?

[sydbat]

Agreed, can't we just agree to disagree?? I mean we're all an the UF, which means regardless of what your opinion is on Apple, we all love Linux!!

I totally welcome a discussion over Apple and it's products but can we avoid the flaming?No. There are people on here who do not "love Linux". You will find out who they are soon enough.

[Bachstelze]

I find it funny how when the iPhone doesn't have copy/paste and MMS, the apple fanboys say its a useless feature.

I heard of that, it reminded me of


Certain renard gascon, d'autres disent normand,
Mourant presque de faim, vit au haut d'une treille
Des raisins mûrs apparemment,
Et couverts d'une peau vermeille.
Le galand en eut fait volontiers un repas;
Mais comme il n'y pouvait point atteindre:
« Ils sont trop verts, dit-il, et bons pour des goujats. »

Sorry, couldn't find a proper English translation of it. So here's a Google one corrected


Some Gascon fox, others say Norman
Almost dying of hunger, saw on top of a trellis
Apparently ripe grapes,
Covered with a purple skin.
The rogue would gladly have made a meal of them
But as they ww-ere out of his reach:
"They are too green, he said, and good for cads. "

[Tristam Green]

No. There are people on here who do not "love Linux". You will find out who they are soon enough.

sup?

I hate every Operating System with an equal and infuriating passion

[mickie.kext]

Apple didn't made CUPS. They bought it (http://www.linux-watch.com/news/NS2045132320.html) and moved developers to work on OS X specific parts of it which are propriatary:


CUPS development, however, will not be Sweet's full-time job at Apple. Sweet said he will be "primarily working on non-CUPS projects." Given his background, one presumes those will still be printer-related projects.

[BrokenKingpin]

Apple is the total opposite of open, so it only makes sense that you see anti-Apple stuff on forums focused around open source software.

They may have a couple things that are open, but it is outweighed 10-fold by all the **** they lock down.

[MCVenom]

Apple is the total opposite of open, so it only makes sense that you see anti-Apple stuff on forums focused around open source software.

They may have a couple things that are open, but it is outweighed 10-fold by all the **** they lock down.
this

[Austin25]

I think Google, with their Droids, may take over the iPhone market. (Also, Android is based on the Linux kernel, so it makes us Linux fans happy. :p)

[Crunchy the Headcrab]

I say this as a Linux fan (the likes of whom are notorious for annoying and passionate evangelising!), but I have to agree. I don't care much for the products for sure; locked into their over priced hardware and services. But the worst bit is the fans who can be seen openly worshipping the Apple share prices in those scary shops. Such devotion to money and big business absolutely terrifies me. It's become a religion. Jeezuz people, reconnect with the soul before it's too late!

I've long said it (and apparently so did Jung), but to me this is symptomatic of a society in the middle of a serious depression...
To clarify. I don't hate apple fans. I just dislike the apple fans that have unrealistic beliefs about the superiority of their platform. I like MacOS. I like Macbook Pros. I do not like CS instructors that tell me on a daily basis that Macs are superior and that they never crash and then try to deny it when their computer crashes twice in one lecture.

PS my wife has a Mac

[zekopeko]

Apple didn't made CUPS. They bought it (http://www.linux-watch.com/news/NS2045132320.html) and moved developers to work on OS X specific parts of it which are propriatary:

That link says nothing about those "proprietary" parts of CUPS. Do you have some other link that actually says that?

[mickie.kext]

That link says nothing about those "proprietary" parts of CUPS. Do you have some other link that actually says that?

Try to compile open source version of CUPS on OS X and see if it works like one that came with OS.

[v1ad]

apple is so "open source" that you can even implement flash into their iphone and ipads.

all sarcasm intended.

[Bachstelze]

apple is so "open source" that you can even implement flash into their iphone and ipads.

How does it matter, though? If you're a real open source supporter, you shouldn't talk about Flash at all, RMS said so.

[v1ad]

How does it matter, though? If you're a real open source supporter, you shouldn't talk about Flash at all, RMS said so.

no, but you should be able to implement any feature that you want into open source software.

[zekopeko]

Try to compile open source version of CUPS on OS X and see if it works like one that came with OS.

I'm still waiting for something that would prove your statement. BTW CUPS is LGPLv2 and GPLv2. That would mean that you can link against CUPS without having to release the code.

[mickie.kext]

How does it matter, though? If you're a real open source supporter, you shouldn't talk about Flash at all, RMS said so.

So Apple have banned flash because of RMS?

[Shining Arcanine]

I sense a backlash towards Apple and their products recently. Could it just be they are now the big kid on the block and everyone is starting to take shots ? Could Microsoft take a back seat to Apple ?

I have disliked Apple since the 1990s when I was conditioned by my parents to hate Apple. Conditioning myself to hate Apple was never their goal, but my parents brought children's toys that resembled computers in response to repeated requests for a computer, and then had the audacity to call them computers. When they finally had given me a glimpse of hope that they had changed their ways, they thought about getting a computer from Apple. I had a very specific concept of what a computer was (that it be IBM compatible) and Apple's computers did not fit that description. I took a look at Apple's bright and shiny G3 computers; I remembered all of the pathetic children's toys they purchased for me in the past, which they had the audacity to call computers; and I immediately developed an intense hatred for anything related to Apple.

While I have grown somewhat, I still do not like Apple, although now my reasons have shifted from "they make children's toys that they have the audacity to call computers" to "they are no better than Microsoft".

[Bachstelze]

I have disliked Apple since the 1990s when I was conditioned by my parents to hate Apple. Conditioning myself to hate Apple was never their goal, but my parents brought children's toys that resembled computers in response to repeated requests for a computer, and then had the audacity to call them computers. When they finally had given me a glimpse of hope that they had changed their ways, they thought about getting a computer from Apple. I had a very specific concept of what a computer was (that it be IBM compatible) and Apple's computers did not fit that description. I took a look at Apple's bright and shiny G3 computers; I remembered all of the pathetic children's toys they purchased for me in the past, which they had the audacity to call computers; and I immediately developed an intense hatred for anything related to Apple.

Paging Dr. Freud.

[endotherm]

Paging Dr. Freud.
so do you think personal insults like that would be reduced if you posted using your real name?

[Bachstelze]

so do you think personal insults like that would be reduced if you posted using your real name?

Insults? Where? o.o

EDIT: ALso if you want my real name, it's easy. On my profile, you have a link to my Launchpad home page. There it is.

[endotherm]

Insults? Where? o.o
the implication that one has a mental illness, or even worse, "mommy issues" (synonymous with invoking Freud), is very offensive in many parts of the world.

EDIT: so I guess your argument here doesn't stand up to muster:
http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=9555713&postcount=5

[Crunchy the Headcrab]

I had a very specific concept of what a computer was (that it be IBM compatible) and Apple's computers did not fit that description.
I fail to see how this is your parents' fault and I think your lack of love for the Apple/Mac comes from a lack of use/understanding of them.

[Bachstelze]

the implication that one has a mental illness, or even worse, "mommy issues" (synonymous with invoking Freud), is very offensive in many parts of the world.

Don't put words in people's mouth that they never said. It is a common response when someone mentions that his present behavious or opinions are directly related to events in his childhood. If it of course not to be taken seriously (it's so silly I can't imagine who would take this seriously)

Geez, I shouldn't even have to explain it, do you guys always need a big annoying animated smiley with a sign to get a joke?

[Shining Arcanine]

I fail to see how this is your parents' fault and I think your lack of love for the Apple/Mac comes from a lack of use/understanding of them.

In response to my requests for a computer, they purchased what was basically a castrated calculator (one that asked you do computations), which resembled a computer and gave it to me, saying it was a computer. That is their fault. Your thought that my "lack of love for the Apple/Mac comes from a lack of use/understanding of them" is exactly correct, because I had never seen one until my parents seemed to finally be willing to buy something for me, and that, combined with its resemblance to the children's toys that they had purchased for me, was enough to condition me to hate Apple. All I could think when my father mentioned Apple was that he was "trying to pull a fast one" on me again.

[Nano Geek]

I don't mind Apple haters so much, but I cannot stand Apple user haters. Some people seem to think that if you buy an Apple product then you must be a fanboy and you would buy anything with an Apple sticker on it. If only those demented fanboys would see the light and switch to Linux/Android!

I love Linux, and I used Ubuntu as my main OS for several years, but recently I purchased a MacBook Pro and switched to OSX. I knew that MacBooks cost more, and I knew the limitations, but I valued a system that "just works" and stays (mostly) out of my way over the customization that Linux offers. I'm not a fanboy, and I recogonize that Apple products have their own problems, but I still use them.

[VastOne]

Insults? Where? o.o

EDIT: ALso if you want my real name, it's easy. On my profile, you have a link to my Launchpad home page. There it is.

Lame...

And back on topic, Apple and Jobs can be directly related to the rising cost of everything...

Electric, Gas, Oil Company Execs, and Farmers all came to the same conclusion, probably at the same secret board meeting...

"If these damn fools will pay 200 - 300 a month for air (after all it is just air), they will damn sure pay what we demand."

And we do....

Eventually, this "fad" will wear off and burn itself out. I mean, how long can we go on thinking that sexting, texting and talking on an overpriced toy is the sh*ts?

[KiwiNZ]

I was going to put this to Recurring

But its just Recurring bashing and Flaming

CLOSED!!!!!