Old technology foils Schwarzenegger's wage order

[Sporkman]

Old technology foils Schwarzenegger's wage order

SACRAMENTO, Calif. – As the Terminator, Arnold Schwarzenegger was the technology of the future, feared by humans. As governor, he's being foiled by the technology of the past.

For the second time in two years, Schwarzenegger has ordered most state workers' pay cut to the federal minimum wage because lawmakers missed their deadline to fix the state's $19 billion budget deficit. The Legislature's failure to act has left the state without a spending plan as the new fiscal year begins.

A state appellate court ruled in Schwarzenegger's favor Friday, but the state controller, who issues state paychecks, says he can't comply. One reason given by Controller John Chiang, a Democrat elected in 2006: The state's computer system can't handle the technological challenge of restating paychecks to the federal minimum of $7.25 an hour...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_california_budget_minimum_wage

[Dr. C]

... The state's payroll system was designed more than 60 years ago and was last revamped in 1970, Hallye Jordan, state controller's office spokeswoman, said in an e-mail. ...

What are they using? Punch cards and tabulating machines?

[Crunchy the Headcrab]

Seriously? Who can live on minimum wage? It'd be better to fire some folks, at least then SOME people could feed their families.

Err...I mean computers, blah blah blah, computers.

[chris200x9]

Why can't they change it? The article just says "we can't" it doesn't say why.

[MCVenom]

Seriously? Who can live on minimum wage? It'd be better to fire some folks, at least then SOME people could feed their families.

Err...I mean computers, blah blah blah, computers.
Nice save ;)

[schauerlich]

Why can't they change it? The article just says "we can't" it doesn't say why.

In before "they're probably using windows"

[chris200x9]

In before "they're probably using windows"

Me thinks some one just has a relative in computer science they want to feed money to ;)

[kamaboko]

In before "they're probably using windows"

Uhh....I'm quite certain this is a software application issue and not a OS platform issue. Moreover, if you had read the article, you would have seen the part about the payroll system was designed over 60 years ago, and revamped in 1970. It's likely a Unix system, so I guess you can start trashing Unix now.

[MooPi]

It's probably just the controller using an old system as an excuse not to make the changes.The Terminator is foiled by someone that doesn't know their technology :-)

[chris200x9]

I hope it's because the program can't use floats "$7.25 this isn't an integer WTF?!"

[schauerlich]

Uhh....I'm quite certain this is a software application issue and not a OS platform issue. Moreover, if you had read the article, you would have seen the part about the payroll system was designed over 60 years ago, and revamped in 1970. It's likely a Unix system, so I guess you can start trashing Unix now.

I was predicting someone would find a way to blame windows, not blaming it myself.

[SoFl W]

Post removed by author

[earthpigg]

If you are 25+ years old, have a family and are still making minimum wage...you have made some seriously poor decisions in your life.

Like working for the State of California, apparently.

[Madspyman]

Schwarzenegger gave James Cameron a call to see if he could do anything to help out, Cameron said "give me a call in 12 years."

[icechen1]

I like how Reps keeps failing at techs recently. :0

[jrusso2]

I bet the governor and his staff are not making min wage.

[Dr. C]

Over 60 years ago that places it in the late 1940's. The type of technology used in those days was the IBM tabulating or accounting machine and of course punch cards. This is a model from 1949 http://www.columbia.edu/acis/history/407.html. IBM migrated is clients to the mainframe in the 1960's and 1970's and still kept the punch card which was used with mainframe computers such as the system 360/370. The punch cards started to be phased out in the late 1970's and early 1980's.

[McRat]

You need to understand that California public employees unions have run this state for decades now. No legislation they do not approve of gets passed, nor any budget. They want more money, and won't let the budget pass, even though they are among the highest paid public employees in the world.

California now trails most other states in all metrics of government efficiency. In the 1960's it led the country in nearly every aspect.

The percentage of families that keep their kids out of the public school system climbs every year, and you don't get a discount for doing it. It costs twice as much per student to have them in a non-profit public school as it does to put them through a for-profit private school. The test scores from private schools is far higher. Low income families work 2 jobs for each parent so they can give their kids a future, and still have to pay for the public schools they don't use. Private schools use to be only for the wealthy, now most students are from the middle or lower class.

Yeah, Arnie's a schmuck, but he doesn't draw a salary. His salary cuts hit the union leaders where it hurts. It erodes their support. A jail guard making $80,000/yr with a HS diploma is not as determined to hold out for the $90k the union wants them to be paid.

[stmiller]

Payroll systems are complicated. It's not about just setting the pay amount.

Lots of other factors are handled by the software:

-retirement
-taxes
-insurance
, etc ,etc

There is a lot of math going on and different feeds coming in/out. Drastically dropping the pay would most likely break other systems that pull in or out of or depend upon that payroll system.

CA state DMV is still using DOS. I wouldn't be surprised if the payroll system is just as ancient.

---

The CA congress should have its pay suspended until they pass the budget. That is the only way to do this.

[betrunkenaffe]

Payroll systems are complicated. It's not about just setting the pay amount.

Lots of other factors are handled by the software:

-retirement
-taxes
-insurance
, etc ,etc

There is a lot of math going on and different feeds coming in/out. Drastically dropping the pay would most likely break other systems that pull in or out of or depend upon that payroll system.

CA state DMV is still using DOS. I wouldn't be surprised if the payroll system is just as ancient.

---

The CA congress should have its pay suspended until they pass the budget. That is the only way to do this.

It's kind of crazy the way math works. If you have a number, say 60,000 in a formula and want to swap out that 60,000 for say 15,000, your end result of your formula will perfectly match the expected. This is of course provided you set up your formula correctly in the first place...

In other words, it is as simple as changing the numbers because the system should automatically calculate all the changes and provide the correct output information. If it doesn't then they should definitely look into using a payroll service because theirs is so completely inadequate, it isn't doing it's current job without the "min wage" thing.

[Sporkman]

It's kind of crazy the way math works. If you have a number, say 60,000 in a formula and want to swap out that 60,000 for say 15,000, your end result of your formula will perfectly match the expected. This is of course provided you set up your formula correctly in the first place...

In other words, it is as simple as changing the numbers because the system should automatically calculate all the changes and provide the correct output information.

That's assuming that that formula is only implemented in one place in the code, and that it gets that number from the same single location. In reality, that may not be the case - the formula may be embedded in multiple places, and get its input values from very different locations like different databases, multiple hardcoded values, etc. It may not be well designed software, in fact it might be a bunch of old, crappy software cobbled together incrementaly over decades.

[mickie.kext]

they're probably using windows

[phrostbyte]

they're probably using windows

Good point. :D

[mickie.kext]

Good point. :D

I know. It must be best point since certain people don't like it:D.

[betrunkenaffe]

That's assuming that that formula is only implemented in one place in the code, and that it gets that number from the same single location. In reality, that may not be the case - the formula may be embedded in multiple places, and get its input values from very different locations like different databases, multiple hardcoded values, etc. It may not be well designed software, in fact it might be a bunch of old, crappy software cobbled together incrementaly over decades.

Hardcoding individuals wages into the code base would be a fantastic idea, we should implement that worldwide :) The only thing that should be getting hardcoded would be the formulas, which are not changing because the tax formulas haven't changed, the pension formulas neither, etc. There is no specific formula that is altered by this, only the base number that is input into the system for each of these employees. I'm assuming raises are performed automatically by the system (since they clearly can't change anyone's wage) which means that the change of wage occurs constantly on its own.


If it doesn't then they should definitely look into using a payroll service because theirs is so completely inadequate, it isn't doing it's current job without the "min wage" thing.

[tubezninja]

they're probably using windows

Not windows. From the article:

"The state's payroll system was designed more than 60 years ago and was last revamped in 1970, Hallye Jordan, state controller's office spokeswoman, said in an e-mail."

The system California uses very likely is running on a VAX system, IF that. It could even be coded in COBOL. Most states are switching out of those types of old paltforms into an Oracle based system. I've a seen a few switchouts. Not pretty.

[mickie.kext]

Not windows. From the article:

"The state's payroll system was designed more than 60 years ago and was last revamped in 1970, Hallye Jordan, state controller's office spokeswoman, said in an e-mail."

The system California uses very likely is running on a VAX system, IF that. It could even be coded in COBOL. Most states are switching out of those types of old paltforms into an Oracle based system. I've a seen a few switchouts. Not pretty.

It was a joke. Read post #6.

As for VAX (or maybe PDP) and COBOL... that is old. But moving to Oracle? That won't make them happy (http://searchdatacenter.techtarget.com/news/article/0,289142,sid80_gci1515821,00.html). Hello PL/SQL and M9000, hello lock-in. I believe it's not pretty.

[Dr. C]

they're probably using windows

I seriously doubt it. We are talking technology from over 60 years ago that is well before Bill Gates was even born. Punch cards and tabulating machines. ;)

[koenn]

Hardcoding individuals wages into the code base would be a fantastic idea, we should implement that worldwide :) The only thing that should be getting hardcoded would be the formulas, which are not changing because the tax formulas haven't changed, the pension formulas neither, etc. There is no specific formula that is altered by this, only the base number that is input into the system for each of these employees. I'm assuming raises are performed automatically by the system (since they clearly can't change anyone's wage) which means that the change of wage occurs constantly on its own.
Wages in the public sector are incredibly complex. It's not one single formula, but a complex set of calculations. On top of that, it occasionaly changes (as it follows legislation and other regulations), and some of these changes are applied retro-actoively, some are not, some are retro-active under given conditions or for given groups of employess, and people can change from one group to another over time, etc.

So, with every change in applicable legislation , the software is altered, tweaked, modified to accomodate these change and, usually, also cover some transitional measures.
You end up with a monstrosity that works, but noone understands what it does exactly.
And to make things work and continue to work, you (have to) resort to 'magic numbers', hard coded values inserted left and right to get the correct outcome for every case the system needs to handle.
And the monstrosity has gotten even worse.


Add to that the programming style of 30 -50 years ago, and the sort of shortcuts programmers used to (or had to) make in those days (remember the year 2k with 'two digits for a year is more than enough, don't waste memory on it'), and maybe you'll begin to see that this is not pure math where changing the value of 1 variable instantly produces the desired result.



If it doesn't then they should definitely look into using a payroll service because theirs is so completely inadequate, it isn't doing it's current job without the "min wage" thing.
I work in public service. We've asked payroll services if they could handle calculation of wages etc. for us. They all replied they'd have to create new software from scratch, because their normal, private sector oriented programs are not capable and could not sufficiently be customized to handle the complexity of wages in the public sector.

[McRat]

Yes, when you're only given $130,000,000 for a new computer, you really don't get much today...

BTW - It has nothing to do with the DP system. They did the same thing a few years ago. The court ruling said "unless it's not feasible technically", so of course the answer is "it's not feasible technically". It's just a stalling measure.

[koenn]

BTW - It has nothing to do with the DP system. They did the same thing a few years ago. The court ruling said "unless it's not feasible technically", so of course the answer is "it's not feasible technically". It's just a stalling measure.
that makes sense

[McRat]

A janitor who works for the state makes more money (~$40,000/yr) than a typical beginning programmer or engineer.

Why go to school?

[agurk]

A jail guard making $80,000/yr

Honestly, I thought you were kidding and started googling - you were not.

[McRat]

Honestly, I thought you were kidding and started googling - you were not.

It's sad and getting worse every year. It now costs more to put a felon in prison a year than a kid through college.

[Sporkman]

It now costs more to put a felon in prison a year than a kid through college.

They've been saying that since I was a kid. "It costs more to put someone in the state pen than it does to put him in Penn State.", etc.

College costs are putting up a good fight, though...

[Mr. Picklesworth]

In fairness, it's a good thing that the people who work less interesting jobs such as cleaning toilets and guarding prisons have the resources available to really enjoy their lives. Imagine if people only ever worked those kinds of jobs if they had no other options, or simply weren't aware what options were available? We would end up relying on an education system that arbitrarily focuses people in certain directions so that they don't see, or think about, other possibilities. (See: Brave New World).

Society would be really screwed up that way!