Why do we stick with Linux?

[GuiGuy]

I was wondering why, despite all the odds against it and the frustration it causes us, we continue to defend and use Linux generally & Ubuntu in particular.

Irrespective of the passionate defenses offered by the fanbois it remains that Linux is far from perfect if it is going to be one's everyday working OS.

For example, if I have a lot or large files to transfer to a flash drive I have to use a Windows machine (Linux USB transfer is too slow). Or if I need to to do video editing, I need a Windows or Mac PC. Linux doesn't have useful video editing software. If I want a Rapid Application Development (RAD) IDE, I need to go to Windows. The list goes on and I am sure many here have other examples. A friend, salesman, needs customer tracking. Has to use Windows, despite his passion for Mint.

I know there are things Linux does well. Servers & MythTV based home entertainment system. I have the latter and it is rock solid.

But when it comes to being productive, as opposed to playing mechanic under the hood, I have to question my sanity. Why do we continue to struggle on with Linux?



So, if

[Ric_NYC]

masochism


2.
gratification gained from pain, deprivation, degradation, etc., inflicted or imposed on oneself, either as a result of one's own actions or the actions of others, esp. the tendency to seek this form of gratification.
3.
the act of turning one's destructive tendencies inward or upon oneself.
4.
the tendency to find pleasure in self-denial, submissiveness, etc.
Dictionary.com



Just kidding.


I think we believe in it and we think it will be "big" on the desktop one day.

[amauk]

no frustrations here
(well, other than a few proprietary driver niggles)

I'm 100x more productive in Linux than any other OS
mainly because I can automate most operations via the CLI

but this is going to be hugely subjective, and everyone will have a different opinion

[Jay Car]

I was wondering why, despite all the odds against it and the frustration it causes us, we continue to defend and use Linux generally & Ubuntu in particular.

Irrespective of the passionate defenses offered by the fanbois it remains that Linux is far from perfect if it is going to be one's everyday working OS.

I don't know about "passionate defense" and I hate the word "fanboi", and I haven't had much in the way of frustrations, so maybe I'm unusual in that respect. But I CAN say that I enjoy using Ubuntu and even when it isn't perfect I'll stick with it because it's worth it. Also, I stick with it because I can legally set it up on ALL my computers without fussing with activation and registration and all that nonsense.

I like it because, when it's on my computers it belongs to me. :)

[GuiGuy]

but this is going to be hugely subjective, and everyone will have a different opinion

I agree, and it does depend on what one needs to do. Certainly for the things I need to do, Linux is not the best choice. But I struggle on. Maybe it's just the geek in me.

[yossell]

I actually much prefer working in a Linux environment. I like the open source philosophy too, and I even enjoy the hassle of setting it up - but once it's set up I find it - and this was a surprise to me - a much nicer environment to work in than windows.

[leclerc65]

Two reasons for me:

1- Viruses

2- Windows machines have talent to crave for more powerful hardware. The same PC, the same OS run slower one year later. I don't know why (I am bad with both Windows and Ubuntu:D ).

[madjr]

For example, if I have a lot or large files to transfer to a flash drive I have to use a Windows machine (Linux USB transfer is too slow). Or if I need to to do video editing, I need a Windows or Mac PC. Linux doesn't have useful video editing software.


my usb transfer rate is fine

my video editing needs are covered by apps like Openshot and kdenlive

am not frustrated, just the opposite !

am happier than ever, linux has made my life 10x easier :)

adoption and development has multiplied, it just gets better and i have no doubt it will become the best OS. It's the future

[Theft42]

Even though it can cause me some frustration. When I get everything to go well I feel a great sense of success.. Unlike windows where everthing is way to easy to do. ;)

[GuiGuy]

My daughter was looking over my shoulder when I typed my prev. post. She uses a Macbook. She reckons, mischieviously I think, Linux is like her mother's cooking; half planned, half prepared, half-baked. :D

Nice one, daughter. ;)

[GuiGuy]

When I get everything to go well I feel a great sense of success.. Unlike windows where everthing is way to easy to do. ;)

I use Win7 a lot for work I need to do to pay the bills. I confess I like it, which is what prompted my post. I think I'd feel too guilty if I dumped Linux as a desktop environment. NB: I run Windows in a Virtualbox on my Ubuntu desktop.

[pastalavista]

I like Linux because it's more flexible. It's limitations are only a lack of development based upon its lack of monetary compensation and promotion. It's coming into the light now, especially with Android and other mobile applications. Windows is built around business principles and proprietary codes. Open Source will prevail in the "sub-culture" of the future.

[GuiGuy]

my usb transfer rate is fine

there are plenty of posts on launchpad about the USB transfer problems. I'll leave it at that.



my video editing needs are covered by apps like Openshot and kdenlive


KDEnlive is the best of a bad lot, but is is too slow and flaky for the level of video editing we do. It's also prone to crashes.



adoption and development has multiplied, it just gets better and i have no doubt it will become the best OS. It's the future

No doubt. But will I live long enough to see it? ;)

Cheers

[mamamia88]

Honestly macs are too expensive for what I use my computer for and I don't like the idea of having more apps to keep my computer running properly then actual useful applications. I guess also another reason I stick with it because of these forums as well. I also love how completely customizable the ui is

[GuiGuy]

Honestly macs are too expensive for what I use my computer

I used to think that. I was reluctantly persuaded to buy our daughter one for christmas 18 months ago. Say what we like, the thing just works. What it lacks in the latest hardware it makes up for with exceptionally good design and usability (PS: She's doing a double degree at University so the Macbook is getting used, as you can imagine).

Cheers

[Frogs Hair]

I haven't been around long enough to experience any of this suffering . I had one major problem in 9.10
caused by me.:p

[Simian Man]

I use Linux for the things it's good at and Windows for the thing it's good at. Anything else is just being irrational.

[earthpigg]

But when it comes to being productive, as opposed to playing mechanic under the hood, I have to question my sanity. Why do we continue to struggle on with Linux?

In my case, I don't struggle, and I am very productive.

The only "struggle" I have is the occasional e-mail sent from a professor in .doc format that doesn't open correctly. If I really wanted to, I could negate that by digging up the unopened copy of Vista and Office 2003 I have sitting around somewhere and using a VM. I suspect, however, that installing Windows would be the greater struggle....

[phrostbyte]

Because Linux is an awesome platform. :p Better then all the rest.

[cariboo]

I stick with a linux variant, because it's boring and everything just works, I don't have any problems that I haven't been able to solve.

For a bit of excitement I run testing versions as soon as the toolchain is uploaded.

Having compatible hardware makes using Ubuntu a great experience.

[earthpigg]

Having compatible hardware makes using Ubuntu a great experience.

Yup. Lot's of first time Linux/Ubuntu users have shaky experiences because they weren't considering Linux when they purchased the hardware, and thus didn't check for compatibility.

I did.

Ubuntu "Just Works"... on hardware known to "Just Work" with Ubuntu.

Even buying a computer pre-loaded with Ubuntu can be shaky. My Dell Mini 9, paradoxically, came with Ubuntu but does not work out of the box with Ubuntu (http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=9223467&postcount=21).

[ticopelp]

I stick with it because it's more stable, easier to use, customizable and faster than Windows.

I've used personally and professionally for three years without any major problems. Frankly, not having to worry about viruses, malware and security patches has made me more productive, not less.

[Random_Dude]

For fun.
I'm far from being a computer expert, but I like to mess around with different software and I decided to make an extra effort to learn something about Linux. It just happens that I like it, especially all the tweaking that you can do on the appearance. :D

Although, there's a lot of things that I have to do on Windows., so I don't see any definitive change to 100% Linux anytime soon. :(

Cheers :cool:

[madjr]

No doubt. But will I live long enough to see it? ;)

Cheers

maybe you should "look" at it in a different angle

lets look at both windows and ubuntu's progress

lets say that the real initiative for "linux on the desktop" was born with ubuntu (2005).

lets say the first ubuntu release was comparable to windows 95, not that good right?

lets say it became more usable 3 years later with 8.04; 3 years later ms came up with win98

2 years later win2000; so ubuntu 10.04 is comparable with win2000 (in terms of dev time), but MUCH better looking and safer IMHO :)

winXP came in 2003, so i assume ubuntu 13.04 will become just as adopted by the industry. if we survive 2012 of course! :o

winXP didnt mature till sp2, so.... you see desktop linux is basically on schedule, even with much much smaller pockets.

anyway, things on the linux front are growing EXPONENTIALLY and not just linear, so am sure we'll see some nice surprises along the way.

windows was mediocre, buggy and unstable, but was alone, so it monopolized an entire industry and got enough resources for it's development comparable with the entire Budget of Whole countries!

sad thing is that it's still not that good...

It's not alone anymore, so it will do anything it can to stop OEMS from distributing it.

unless you're 95 years old, i predict You and I will see it mature greatly to a point that most will be satisfied :)

and like every other revolution/movement in history, unless many of us pitch in it will never grow to its full potential.

[earthpigg]

sad thing is that it's still not that good...

unless you're 95 years old, i predict You and I will see it mature greatly to a point that most will be satisfied :)

but, will we live to see the day that windows has a proper package manager, with repositories, used for something besides video games (steam)?

[McRat]

OP:

I use computers as tools. Much like you don't use a hacksaw to shorten a glass tube, you don't use Windows when it doesn't get the job done correctly.

The biggest complaints I read about with Linux, are multi-media issues. Playing movies, games, music, Flash toys, etc. None of those affect me:


I own a TV

I own a radio

I own a game console

I can watch colorful ads on TV commercials


I was a Microsoft Zealot at a point in my life. I was one of the original MCP's. First batch. I was a MRD (MS developer). I taught classes in the use of MS products. I was an alpha tester for Chicago? aka Win NT.

Fast forward to 2010. I spend stupid amounts of time trying to keep WinTel boxes running correctly. With every new version, things got worse. I believe Win7 is no better than W3.11 from a maintenance perspective, and for business, it doesn't do anything more than W3.11 does. Email, Spreadsheets, Accounting, CAD, Letters, Networking, were all just as fast and easy in 1995.

Now, if I needed to play Ninja Masters v12 on a 3D monitor while microwaving cookies on the CPU and listening to bootleg Show Tunes, perhaps my opinion would be different. But I don't.

Going back to Windows is exactly that for me. Going BACK. I'm tired of de-evolution. DEVO wasn't that good of a band anyhow.

Apparently, I'm not alone. MS peaked in % of desktops about 8? years ago, and are now losing market share. They are still the Big Dog in the desktop world, problem is, they should have been using a pooper scooper. Too many got tired of stepping in it.

If products like Ubuntu Linux did not exist, I'd be migrating to Apples instead. After testing both, I like Ubuntu better than OS X for business use.

[themarker0]

Because i usually can get it working for 3-5 months without any issues.

[Letrazzrot]

I use Linux for the things it's good at and Windows for the thing it's good at. Anything else is just being irrational.

Practically took the words out of my mouth.

Personally, I only use Windows when I have to, and Ubuntu for the more "mundane" things.

[kingrobdun]

For a long time, I used windows (since 3.1). Now I cant use windows, its filled with broken promises.

[malspa]

A few reasons off the top of my head:

- No viruses.

- The OS doesn't cost me an arm and a leg.

- Tons of free software at my fingertips.

- I can use different desktop environments and window managers, and different distros -- all on the same computer.

- The OS is MINE, not Microsoft's.

- Linux is far more stable than my Windows systems ever were.

- I'm more comfortable using Linux now than I ever was using Windows. Things in Linux make more sense to me than Windows ever did.

- I enjoy the Linux forums.

I will never willingly go back to using Windows.

[nrs]

I use GNU/Linux because it's free in both senses of the term, and because I greatly prefer *nix as a development platform to Windows.

I used FreeBSD for a time but switched back to Linux because I prefer the GNU toolset , and I had bought a motherboard that wasn't properly supported. This was probably back in '04.

[oldsoundguy]

What I can't fathom is how somebody that hasn't the time or energy to figure out Linux, condemns it as being unusable.

I have 5 machines here running Linux of one sort or another .. only one that has issues is a Myth box .. and I just have not had the time to really delve into it.(been running Linux on those machine since V6.10)

And, like several others mentioned .. I still use Windows .. not on line .. just to run the ton of photographic crud I have and to sync my PDA units (because they have WINDOWS operating systems burned in!)

So, IF you are having issues .. try looking in the mirror for the problem!!
DO YOUR RESEARCH .. trying to run Linux on a box of non-compatable chips and cards, an exercise in frustration! (and do not compare a factory install of Windows to your OWN install of Linux with "how easy" Windows is .. try starting from scratch and then talk to us!!)

[Shakz]

Because its ours.

[Shining Arcanine]

The reason people use Linux is because GNU/HURD is not ready yet. At least, that is probably the FSF's opinion on the matter.

[Dustin2128]

A few reasons off the top of my head:

- No viruses.

- The OS doesn't cost me an arm and a leg.

- Tons of free software at my fingertips.

- I can use different desktop environments and window managers, and different distros -- all on the same computer.

- The OS is MINE, not Microsoft's.

- Linux is far more stable than my Windows systems ever were.

- I'm more comfortable using Linux now than I ever was using Windows. Things in Linux make more sense to me than Windows ever did.

- I enjoy the Linux forums.

I will never willingly go back to using Windows.

My opinions in a nutshell.

[chessnerd]

I have asked myself this question several times recently. Why don't I just wipe Linux off of my laptop and use Windows Vista and Windows 7?

After all, I get kernel panics every so often - and yet, I use Linux.

I have battled through sound issues since 8.04 - and yet, I use Linux.

I have dealt with backlight problems since 9.10 - and yet, I use Linux.

I have fought the bad Wi-Fi support since 9.04 - and yet, I use Linux.

I have never had to deal with such issues in Windows - and yet, I use Linux.

Maybe I'm insane. Sure, with Linux I can use the command line. With Linux, I get the support of the Forums, which is better than any tech support I've gotten from Microsoft. With Linux, I have complete control of my system. With Linux, I can choose to install any of hundreds of distros. Sure, there are no viruses and hardly any malware. True, software installs are easier than on any other OS. And yes, when there aren't driver problems, it is very stable.

Then again, is choice and freedom really that important? It would be so much easier to just use Windows and be rid of my hardware problems.

And yet, I still use Linux.

[MCVenom]

The reason people use Linux is because GNU/HURD is not ready yet. At least, that is probably the FSF's opinion on the matter.
GNU/HURD would probably have some promise over Linux if it weren't for being based on Mach. :P

Of course that's just something I read somewhere; I must admit I'm not an expert in kernel theory, nor have I read the infamous Torvalds-Tanenbaum debates. :P

[Timmer1240]

Actually I havent found linux to be "Hard" to have as an Operating system its been really nice if theres a problem or question I usually google or come to these forums its been a good ride so far .Ive been using ubuntu about 5 months now and really enjoying it seems to be rock solid stable for me much better than xp!

[Timmer1240]

My opinions in a nutshell.

Well said!Enjoy it its yours to make what you need!

[Moozillaaa]

Analyzing problems improves the mind, IF you think critically about it.

Being able to explain the problem makes you a better communicator.

[Timmer1240]

Its just so damn cool!

[nmaster]

For example, if I have a lot or large files to transfer to a flash drive I have to use a Windows machine (Linux USB transfer is too slow). Or if I need to to do video editing, I need a Windows or Mac PC. Linux doesn't have useful video editing software.

1. my usb transfer rate is around 30 MB/s (about 10x what it was with Vista). i've also never had a problem with the video editing although i don't usually do much with video.

2. i love the free software. its easy to get new things and do cool stuff. see my avatar? i reconstructed a 3d model of my skull from the frames of a *.mov i got after i had an MRI. granted, this can be done in windows and in mac os, but i did this for free :)

3. i like to learn about linux and its a great job skill. knowing linux (reasonably) well has set me apart from other applicants for internships and its really paid off.

[Moozillaaa]

1. my usb transfer rate is around 30 MB/s (about 10x what it was with Vista). i've also never had a problem with the video editing although i don't usually do much with video.

2. i love the free software. its easy to get new things and do cool stuff. see my avatar? i reconstructed a 3d model of my skull from the frames of a *.mov i got after i had an MRI. granted, this can be done in windows and in mac os, but i did this for free :)

3. i like to learn about linux and its a great job skill. knowing linux (reasonably) well has set me apart from other applicants for internships and its really paid off .

I see the same thing as the OP, with respect to USB transfer speed.

What hardware do you have?

My USB Xfer rate is 12mb/s, with internal speed around 60mb/s.

Post here (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=9541000#post9541000) if you have ideas please...

[proggy]

to impress the girls

[NightwishFan]

If it is a struggle, then do not use it! Personally, I would probably not be here if Gnu/Linux did not work. Because it does, and has room to grow, I have been here so long. I would rather have a bit of work for freedom than to use a system I cannot control the core, or look at the development that goes into it.

[lancest]

Dead easy to install, configure, maintain.
Better long term performance.
Safer by design.
Freedom of Open Source.
Prefer a system that is internet centric.
(repositories etc)

Video file copy:
I have a Seagate FreeAgent usb drive (with Ext 4) and my video copy transfer speeds are blazing. I seriously doubt they would be as fast on Windows.

On my msdos USB dongles though I have noticed some hanging at the end of HD video copying. I'm sure it will get cleaned up.
(No way that's gonna make want Windows)

[steveneddy]

Ubuntu has been my main OS for five years and I don't have any issues.

It never breaks and always starts up and when I need a tool it is there.

[HangukMiguk]

no frustrations here
(well, other than a few proprietary driver niggles)

This and flash are my only two issues with Linux. I love the stability of Linux (stable as in, not having to shutdown my computer every two hours or so and not seeing blue screens). On top of that, now that I know more about the OS, I see myself being more productive than in Windows. I can maneuver around the filesystem even quicker than I could in Windows to be honest.

[ssulaco]

My daughter was looking over my shoulder when I typed my prev. post. She uses a Macbook. She reckons, mischieviously I think, Linux is like her mother's cooking; half planned, half prepared, half-baked.

My son has a Macbook....its pretty cool,nice eye candy,he says its pretty solid,I believe he told me it was well over a grand.Im sure its a great notebook........

I have Hardy Heron(Free) on a 50 dollar Optiplex....it also is solid as a rock;)

[Ralob]

I use it because I like it.

Every new version is free and doesn't require hardware updates.

Updates are streamlined and do not require restarts.

I feel safer running Linux than Windows.

Synaptic.

I have learned more about computers tinkering with Linux than I ever did formatting my drives whenever Windows decided to BSoD me (which was often).

[Sean Moran]

I installed Win-XP on this machine a few weeks ago, just to obtain some screenshots of what goes on when one inserts the Ubuntu Live-CD during a Windows-like session.

One thing that I remember that Win95 didn't have a problem with but Win98 and XP both did, was the sluggish mouse pointer, and this Presario CQ-60 is using a Microsoft USB mouse. Not much can detract from the ergonomics and functionality of a current session than a mouse pointer that spends more time responding to the sleepy OS than it does to the user's mouse movements.

That partition was back to ext4 as soon as the screenshots were archived.

[L4U]

cause Linux is a lot like golf... ;)


Or if I need to to do video editing, I need a Windows or Mac PC. Linux doesn't have useful video editing software.
I mostly agree here, but have you tried OpenShot yet? It's catching Linux up.

[Techsnap]

I stuck with Linux because at the time it worked best for me, Slackware. But since there Vista came out, I started buying a lot of Windows applications and it runs great so since I've started using Windows again just because I can go to the store buy any app/game and know it will run.

[Drenriza]

I use linux/ubuntu for following reasons.

#1 I like that i have the option to use the CLI or graphical user interface. To do my work.

#2 it boots faster than windows, it gets the wireless connection up and running faster than windows. No virus, spyware, hacker, problems.

#3 easy to install & remove packages/programs.

#4 simple to maintain.

#5 has the (in my opinion) best server solution.

e.c.t

I use both the desktop & server solution that ubuntu provides. And the only reason i would consider using windows (no mac, EVER) is because of the games :p

But aslong as i have

#warcraft, reign of chaos
#starcraft 2

and some other kill time games, that i can use on ubuntu. I wont be using anything else then ubuntu.

So in my opinion
Mac 2/5 stars. Never, ever until the day i die i wanna use Mac.
Windows 4/5 stars. could be better.
Ubuntu 4/5 starts. could be better, but personally like ubuntu more.

[robsoles]

...

For example, if I have a lot or large files to transfer to a flash drive I have to use a Windows machine (Linux USB transfer is too slow). ...

I don't find that at all, most of the time file transfer is slower when I copy to people's Windows machines due to all the 'defensive-ware' needing to check what is going on!

I get great performance from all my Linux boxes and am yet to see a Windows addled machine copy the content of a USB stick (or HDD in a cage connected via USB) as quick as the Linux/Ubuntu machines I have control over (being 2 at home, a few amongst family and friends and 4 with more on the way at work!)

[GuiGuy]

What I can't fathom is how somebody that hasn't the time or energy to figure out Linux, condemns it as being unusable.

I was going to give a polite and positive reply. But then I saw your shouting;



DO YOUR RESEARCH .. trying to run Linux on a box of non-compatable chips and cards, an exercise in frustration! (and do not compare a factory install of Windows to your OWN install of Linux with "how easy" Windows is .. try starting from scratch and then talk to us!!)


My fanboi quip is vindicated. Cheers

[Tombgeek]

I must admit, if I were old enough to go to university and get a job (I'm only 16), I would love to get myself an Apple Macbook Pro. But for now, I have to use Windows and Ubuntu (not that I am complaining, I love Ubuntu, I just like Mac as well)

I am one who has played around with all them to know the pros and cons of each.
Linux is not perfect, but as Lockergnome (YouTube) has said, every OS sucks.
Linux, being free and flexible (as being able to run on any device you program it for), makes a perfect OS for simple tasks (that is the purpose of Ubuntu). The more powerful taks lie at the hands of the propietary OS market (Mac OS and Windows).

I stick with Linux for these reasons:

1. Linux firstly is secure. While there are viruses for Linux, they won't really last that long because users will just create patches to remove them.
Microsoft uses the theory that because they own 90+% of the OS market, they are the ones that get the most viruses. Most smart people know that it is just another Microsoft con. They have pathetic programming skills, it is fact. They focus mainly on stuff nobody needs.
Mac, being based on UNIX, is guaranteed to be secure and it is, but it does has a few trojans available.

2. Linux is free. Self explanatory.

3. Simple maintenence. No defraging, no cleaning out junk files and no registry errors. Just a virus scan once in a while, and use Computer Janitor to clean out unused packages, and I am set.

4. Comes with all the basic things I need. Internet browser, word processor, music player. Everything I need. For school, I have to use Windows XP (for Delphi 7 and Office 2007) and for a few games.

The only thing I hate about Ubuntu and Linux is that it can be a pain in the butt if things do not work out the box (like my sound drivers), and when simple things like OpenOffice 3.2's long load times when connected to the internet and Empathy's Mxit bug disrupt my normal use. But other than that, Ubuntu is perfect.

I think the one reason people stick with Linux is because of the philosophy behind it. The purpose was to create an OS that can be distributed freely to be changed and modified and to be distributed to others, and providing help to those who have problems.

[V for Vincent]

To me, it's much, much less of a hassle than windows. I've got a dual boot with win7 for compatibility reasons and I honestly cannot deal with windows. The update system is annoying, finding quality apps for specific purposes requires wading through tons of terrible ones, it's slower (on my PC, in any case), it requires *tons* of hard disk space, truly customizing the interface requires a new shell, repos are far more convenient than executables,...

I don't "hate" windows, but I really, really prefer the way ubuntu handles. Really, there are things you can't do with linux, but it boggles me why that's not accepted about windows.

[Lucifer The Dark]

Everything I have on or connected to this machine works in Windows with a minimum of fuss to get it working, my wireless dongle refused to work in Lucid at first & I spent 2 days fiddling with settings & compiling various flavours of driver to get it working.

Now you're probably wondering why don't I just go back to windows if it's so easy, well one simple answer is I like a challenge & Windows isn't a challenge since Microsoft dumbed it down so even the most computer-illiterate granny can use it.
BUT, In Windows for me 90% of the time when a program crashes it'll take the entire system with it, a good day is less than 5 total system crashes, Ubuntu hasn't once done that since I installed it over a month ago.

[V for Vincent]

It also strikes me as ironic that precisely the reasons you mentioned for not sticking with it are good reasons to persevere. If everyone just jumped ship, we'd be stuck in a vicious cycle. Now, I don't at all agree that windows feels more comfortable, it's just an additional something I wanted to point out.

[Sean Moran]

In Windows for me 90% of the time when a program crashes it'll take the entire system with it, a good day is less than 5 total system crashes, Ubuntu hasn't once done that since I installed it over a month ago.

I read on some website back in the last millenium, (when forums were no more than just an itch in a few people's heads) that the reason that hospitals and military departments run Unix was that Windows needs a reboot every night, and a reinstall every month, while Unix needs a reboot ever Christmas and an upgrade whenever Santa Claus brings good budgetary presents.

Paraphrasing from something back in 1999 but it seems to apply to Linux (if you're wise) just the same as UNIX.

[libssd]

A friend with one of the original Acer netbooks (8.9" screen, slow 8gb SSD) was complaining about how slow her netbook was with Windows XP, especially after dealing with 5 hours of Windows downloads and updates the day before. After showing her both Ubuntu 10.04 and Mint 9, she chose Mint, and allowed me to do a makeover of her machine. She now has 4gb of free space, and the netbook boots in 45 seconds (vs several minutes under XP).

Unsolicited testimonial:


I already LOVE IT!!! Just love it.
Btw did I mention how much it’s faster, easier, more fun & that I Love it?

[Naiki Muliaina]

I was wondering why, despite all the odds against it and the frustration it causes us, we continue to defend and use Linux generally & Ubuntu in particular.

Irrespective of the passionate defenses offered by the fanbois it remains that Linux is far from perfect if it is going to be one's everyday working OS.

Linux has caused me no headaches.... I always check hardware before I buy. I only upgrade main desktops and the PC's at work when I know the distro is nice and stable and I keep most of them on LTS releases.

Not passionate and not a fanboi (crap dammit that word makes me lose respect for anyone that uses it...).


But when it comes to being productive, as opposed to playing mechanic under the hood, I have to question my sanity. Why do we continue to struggle on with Linux?


I also do not play mechanic. We have GUI's for nearly everything now.

I wanted to give more effort into this post but after reading the first 2 paragraphs from the OP again I don't see any point. Its just someone trying to provoke a reaction (and using that damned fanboi word!)

[koenn]

I was wondering why, despite all the odds against it and the frustration it causes us, we continue to defend and use Linux generally & Ubuntu in particular.

Irrespective of the passionate defenses offered by the fanbois it remains that Linux is far from perfect if it is going to be one's everyday working OS.

[...]

But when it comes to being productive, as opposed to playing mechanic under the hood, I have to question my sanity. Why do we continue to struggle on with Linux?


you're starting from incorrect assumptions, your reasoning is flawed, and you're doing it wrong.

I've been using a linux desktop system is my only (home) desktop since 2006. It does everything I need - without hassle, frustration or struggle of any kind.


At work I use a Windows desktop, because the apps we use and the way things are set up, that's the most convenient choice. I do keep a virtual linux desktop nearby, because that one is more convenient when I need to manage the linux servers we have, our NAS, and some aspects of our virtual infrastructure.


If you're using a platform that works against you, that you need to struggle with, etc., you've made the wrong choice.

[jwbrase]

I was wondering why, despite all the odds against it and the frustration it causes us, we continue to defend and use Linux generally & Ubuntu in particular.

Irrespective of the passionate defenses offered by the fanbois it remains that Linux is far from perfect if it is going to be one's everyday working OS.

For example, if I have a lot or large files to transfer to a flash drive I have to use a Windows machine (Linux USB transfer is too slow). Or if I need to to do video editing, I need a Windows or Mac PC. Linux doesn't have useful video editing software. If I want a Rapid Application Development (RAD) IDE, I need to go to Windows. The list goes on and I am sure many here have other examples. A friend, salesman, needs customer tracking. Has to use Windows, despite his passion for Mint.

I know there are things Linux does well. Servers & MythTV based home entertainment system. I have the latter and it is rock solid.

But when it comes to being productive, as opposed to playing mechanic under the hood, I have to question my sanity. Why do we continue to struggle on with Linux?



So, if

Well, for me, the big issue is not so much the technical merits of either OS but just getting fed up with the way MS treats their customers.

Beyond that, it all depends what "productive" means. If it means "video editing", Linux may not be for you (at least, not as a round the clock OS), unless there's some app out there you haven't discovered yet (for me, "productive" does not mean video editing, because I'm not in that line of work, so I can't give any suggestions).

[jwbrase]

I read on some website back in the last millenium, (when forums were no more than just an itch in a few people's heads) that the reason that hospitals and military departments run Unix was that Windows needs a reboot every night, and a reinstall every month, while Unix needs a reboot ever Christmas and an upgrade whenever Santa Claus brings good budgetary presents.

Paraphrasing from something back in 1999 but it seems to apply to Linux (if you're wise) just the same as UNIX.

TBH, for the desktop user, that's not much of an incentive. The typical desktop user doesn't *need* the machine up 24/7, and may well shut it down when he goes to bed to save power.

The typical laptop user may be carrying it in his backpack as much as he has it running.

My own laptop tends to fall in between those two usage patterns.

Now it is nice for the system not to bog down or crash every 24 hours, but, honestly, WinXP (don't know about Vista/7) is much more stable than Win9x.

[alket]

Ubuntu fills my needs for Java programing, IM (MSN, Google Talk, IRC) , OpenOffice. For causal videos there is OpenShot that has all my needed features. Im not into gaming but i play OpenArena and Urban Teror. All my hardware is recognised, i had an ATI but now i have Nvidia which works much better than in Windows (surprising).

I dual boot with Windows 7, just in case if i need that one day, so far I just booted once (when i installed)

It is not why do "WE" stick in Linux.

[cwmoser]

...But when it comes to being productive, as opposed to playing mechanic under the hood, I have to question my sanity. Why do we continue to struggle on with Linux?


... sometimes I struggle with Linux - mainly when a new release comes out.

Still, Ubuntu Linux is less troublesome than Windows, viruses, spam, malware, etc. Ubuntu with Compiz and other tools are a lot easier to work with than anything Windows XP has to offer.

I'm totally sold on Ubuntu Linux and only use XP at work in my job with WIndows servers and workstations. At home, I reprise into a better world - my world of Ubuntu Linux :-)

Carl

[Chame_Wizard]

Cause FLOSS,security and knowledge is always good to have/know.

Productivity,low cost,efficiency and the freaking community is important(for me).:lolflag:

[poisonkiller]

Because I don't like buying/pirating software, even if the free option needs a little work put into it.

[MCVenom]

I was wondering why, despite all the odds against it and the frustration it causes us,
Thanks for telling me how frustrated I am ;)

we continue to defend and use Linux generally & Ubuntu in particular.I like it. So far I have not run into a single need that Ubuntu does not meet; and I do a lot of stuff on my computer. It's also faster than Windows on this computer, and I prefer the interface and the amount of choice and power Ubuntu and Linux in general gives me.

Irrespective of the passionate defenses offered by the fanbois it remains that Linux is far from perfect if it is going to be one's everyday working OS.I'll just point you to koenn's above post instead of indulging this rather irrelevant statement.

For example, if I have a lot or large files to transfer to a flash drive I have to use a Windows machine (Linux USB transfer is too slow).It varies, mostly depending on your hardware. On my laptop, USB transfer is twice as fast as on Windows.

Or if I need to to do video editing, I need a Windows or Mac PC. Linux doesn't have useful video editing software.I hear your answer might be here; professional quality and open source ;) Lightworks (http://ostatic.com/blog/powerful-video-editor-lightworks-released-as-open-source)

If I want a Rapid Application Development (RAD) IDE, I need to go to Windows. I assume you're talking about Visual Studio type IDEs, I can't really make a suggestion here mainly because I'm not very familiar with all the IDEs for Linux.

The list goes on and I am sure many here have other examples. A friend, salesman, needs customer tracking. Has to use Windows, despite his passion for Mint. Don't have any suggestions there either; not familiar with it.


I know there are things Linux does well. Servers & MythTV based home entertainment system. I have the latter and it is rock solid. Cool :p


But when it comes to being productive, as opposed to playing mechanic under the hood, I have to question my sanity. Why do we continue to struggle on with Linux? What do you mean by this? I haven't had to 'play mechanic' much at all with Ubuntu.

From what it sounds like, you seem to be noticing that there are some things one OS does better than another. This is perfectly normal. ;) Windows does some things better, Mac OSX does other things better, and Linux does other things. Simple as that.

[Frak]

For most of us, whether you agree or not (because I think you're wrong if you disagree), it's purely for hobbyist reasons.

[oldsoundguy]

For most of us, whether you agree or not (because I think you're wrong if you disagree), it's purely for hobbyist reasons.

has nothing to do with "hobby" .. I use my machines for practical computing (crunching numbers), home office and for almost everything including all web activity.
The fact that I do not have to maintain them ad nausium and clean and tweak all the time is a big PLUS in my book.

(but I don't play games .. so guess that is the primary issues with some.)

[Frak]

has nothing to do with "hobby" .. I use my machines for practical computing (crunching numbers), home office and for almost everything including all web activity.
The fact that I do not have to maintain them ad nausium and clean and tweak all the time is a big PLUS in my book.

(but I don't play games .. so guess that is the primary issues with some.)
I use Linux for that too, but I could equally get away with doing all of that on Windows as well. So, as to why most people use Linux if it matches the capabilities of Windows? Hobbyism.

[schauerlich]

Group identity psychology. People like feeling like they're "part of something".

[MCVenom]

I use Linux for that too, but I could equally get away with doing all of that on Windows as well. So, as to why most people use Linux if it matches the capabilities of Windows? Hobbyism.
And it could never possibly be the other way around, right? Linux has no redeeming qualities that makes it better than Windows for some things, so of course not! :roll:

[Frak]

Group identity psychology. People like feeling like they're "part of something".

I think this is a lot more accurate statement.


And it could never possibly be the other way around, right? :roll:

Well, I can do more on Windows than I can do on Linux, but I just use Linux. No, it can't be the other way around. If I'm using the lesser of the two functionalities, then that's hobbyist for all I care.

[MCVenom]

Well, I can do more on Windows than I can do on Linux, but I just use Linux. No, it can't be the other way around. If I'm using the lesser of the two functionalities, then that's hobbyist for all I care.
Lesser of two functionalities, huh? :roll:

[Frak]

Lesser of two functionalities, huh? :roll:
Absolutely. Linux as a whole on the desktop does not match Microsoft Windows.

[MCVenom]

Absolutely. Linux as a whole on the desktop does not match Microsoft Windows.
Well sir, I have nothing more to say to that. :roll:

[RiceMonster]

For most of us, whether you agree or not (because I think you're wrong if you disagree), it's purely for hobbyist reasons.


Group identity psychology. People like feeling like they're "part of something".

I think these two sum up the majority of cases.

[nothingspecial]

Quite simply, because the first computer I ever had came with Ubuntu 7.04 on it and I don`t know how to use anything else.

[khelben1979]

Because it's the best operating system for me. It works without any serious problems and that's the way I want it + no problems with viruses or trojans.

[dondiego2]

Because for me it works better than Windows XP and I like the freedom I have with all the software available. I am unemployed now so I don't have a work computer. All the cover letters I write, all the spreadsheets I use and anything else like reading PDF files I can do just great in Ubuntu. I cant' even get my wireless to work in XP any more so I gave up. I use Ubuntu for everything and I can communicate just fine with the Windows world and I think it is a better OS.

[oldsoundguy]

I use Linux for that too, but I could equally get away with doing all of that on Windows as well. So, as to why most people use Linux if it matches the capabilities of Windows? Hobbyism.


WRONG!! ... I use for day to day operations because I don't have to SCREW with it and spend several hours a week cleaning and maintaining and protecting my operating system and computer.
It runs circles around Windows on line as to operational speed.
I do not have to wait a couple of minutes for program to launch from my desktop .. it is click/bang/open!
The performance of almost ANY Linux build will blow Windows out of the water!

Right now I am fixing a Vista machine that took 15 to 20 minutes to boot when it came in .. I have it down to about 3 minutes now after cleaning all of the garbage that accumulated in it. The delay now is Norton, which the customer wants to keep "because they paid for it"!

[dondiego2]

For most of us, whether you agree or not (because I think you're wrong if you disagree), it's purely for hobbyist reasons.


I totally disagree! I use it for job searches, resume writing, etc., as I am currently in-between jobs. In a few weeks I will start on my masters degree and will use it to take my classes and take notes and keep me organized. When I use it at work but I couldn't figure out how to get through the firewall so I suffered with Windows and calls to the help desk every few weeks.

[Frak]

WRONG!! ... I use for day to day operations because I don't have to SCREW with it and spend several hours a week cleaning and maintaining and protecting my operating system and computer.
It runs circles around Windows on line as to operational speed.
I do not have to wait a couple of minutes for program to launch from my desktop .. it is click/bang/open!
The performance of almost ANY Linux build will blow Windows out of the water!

Right now I am fixing a Vista machine that took 15 to 20 minutes to boot when it came in .. I have it down to about 3 minutes now after cleaning all of the garbage that accumulated in it. The delay now is Norton, which the customer wants to keep "because they paid for it"!


I totally disagree! I use it for job searches, resume writing, etc., as I am currently in-between jobs. In a few weeks I will start on my masters degree and will use it to take my classes and take notes and keep me organized. When I use it at work but I couldn't figure out how to get through the firewall so I suffered with Windows and calls to the help desk every few weeks.

Fanboys defending their beloved OS with reasons that don't strike directly into what was argued? Normal. It's a hobbyist OS; if you wanted an OS to do all that stuff, you'd either buy a Mac or use Windows. That's where the software is. You use Linux because, 1) You like being a part of the collective, or 2) You like tinkering with the OS. For the former quote, if you have to clean up your Windows installation every week, you need to re-learn how to use a computer, because you are clearly doing it wrong.

[Timmer1240]

WRONG!! ... I use for day to day operations because I don't have to SCREW with it and spend several hours a week cleaning and maintaining and protecting my operating system and computer.
It runs circles around Windows on line as to operational speed.
I do not have to wait a couple of minutes for program to launch from my desktop .. it is click/bang/open!
The performance of almost ANY Linux build will blow Windows out of the water!

Right now I am fixing a Vista machine that took 15 to 20 minutes to boot when it came in .. I have it down to about 3 minutes now after cleaning all of the garbage that accumulated in it. The delay now is Norton, which the customer wants to keep "because they paid for it"!
I totally agree with you its a much easier better less maintenance than windows and fast as hell love it!

[mickie.kext]

I you are calling Linux a hobbyist OS, they you are one who don't know how to use a computer.

[Frak]

I you are calling Linux a hobbyist OS, they you are one who don't know how to use a computer.

That's a pretty strong statement, attacking a person with RedHat, Microsoft, and Novell certifications. I must not know how to use a computer at all.

I decided to unhide your post just to laugh at how attached you get to this whole "free software" ideal. It's cute, just saying.

[mick222]

This is turning into a my os is better than your os thread my daughter has a Vista computer that has never had a trojen a virus or wny real malaware . That is because she is carful about her browsing habits and only uses firefox online.Her Vista computer works as good as my Ubuntu computer. On the other hand my son is lazy goes to dodgy sites lets his computer install toolbars and other malaware therefore his windows 7 machine is slower than both.
I love Ubuntu but windows can be just as good if treated properly.

[chriswyatt]

I knew this thread was gonna attract a troll or two.

[MCVenom]

@Frak
All you did was make inflammatory statements and wait for someone to flame you back, honestly.

[mickie.kext]

That's a pretty strong statement, attacking a person with RedHat, Microsoft, and Novell certifications. I must not know how to use a computer at all.

I decided to unhide your post just to laugh at how attached you get to this whole "free software" ideal. It's cute, just saying.

When someone talk BS, I rather suspect ignorance than malice. But I guess I was wrong about you. It's malice.

And about certification I have few too. You so you don't think you are somehow superior.

[Ojustaboo]

As others have said, depends really what you want to use your PC for.

At the end of the day, I've got a high spec PC (well it was a couple of years ago) and win7 runs with zero problems, zero slowdowns and zero junk getting onto it.

Yes I have a free Avast antivirus and free spybot S&D running, but with those two things and the built in firewall (along with my routers firewall), nothing seems to ever get into my win7 system.

It has never hung and it's only when major updates are released that it requires rebooting (most updates don't), even the new nvidia drivers install without the need for a reboot.

I booted off the 64bit pro CD and almost everything installed, all I had to do was install my sound card, gaming mouse etc drivers and it was all there, working 100% smoothly.

Personally I think windows 7 is a very good op system, comparing it to the constant hanging etc of previous MS versions is unfair. Virtually all the problems now are simply users doing stupid things, such as disabling the antivirus as it wouldn't download a file they wanted a sit had a virus in.

These are the sort of users that if they ever did switch to Linux, would have crap passwords and run their entire system logged in as root.

I also like Linux, am a little rusty with it but over the years have played with many different distros.

Last year I gave ubuntu a go, it was fine for 99.9% of anything I did. But I also played Lord of the rings online. Yes it's true that in the end I did get it working reasonably well with ubuntu, but it still had it's glitches and surround sound wouldn't work, my merc gaming keyboard wont work (well it works, but I cant simply select a different layout depending in which game I'm playing) etc etc etc.

I also did a few updates/package installs that insisted on a reboot, in fact I had more reboots in ubuntu than on windows 7

So in the end I ended up booting to windows to play Lord of the rings, which I tend to play for at least 15 mins every day, and as I need to to this, used Linux less and less.

Roll on a while and I've just brought myself a Linux based satellite receiver (vu+duo) which has given me the incentive to try out Linux again.

I will also see how well lord of the rings now runs.

I like tinkering, hence linux is good fun to me. It might seem from this post that I'm some sort of MS fanboy, but I'm not, it's just that I think windows 7 unlike most of their other offerings, is a very stable and good operating system that simply never crashes etc. When I see people saying they prefer linux due to the constant crashes or reboots needed on windows, they really aren't using the same windows that I'm using.

It's also taken me a few days now to manage to get ubuntu to install properly on my system (admittedly I wanted a LVM so needed the alternate install) which ended up with me going for a net install.

But at the end of the day, both ops are very very good, they both have their plus points, Linux has improved in leaps and bounds over the years but still in my opinion has a long way to go to be ready for the everyday casual user.

[NightwishFan]

People mistake 'it has a long way to go for the casual user' with 'it has a long way to go to become a free windows'. I believe (opinion) it already surpasses something things in other OS, especially how software is managed. Though perhaps we need to make a simple universal way to install software. Then individual distros could make a simple tool for advanced users to convert this universal installer into a .deb .rpm etc.. So you can either use the installer (like .bin?) or easily distribute it for your home package manager.

[Jaecyn42]

Simple, I like to learn.

In some 18 years of using Windows machines (from 3.1 to Vista), I really didn't learn much of anything about computers. Just enough to get by.

With Linux, I don't have that same luxury of complacency. Eventually, a problem will crop up that requires that I learn something new. At first, it was using the Command Line, then compiling from source. Tomorrow, it will be something new and I welcome the challenge.

In the six months that I've been using Ubuntu, I've learned volumes more about computing than I learned in my twelve years of Windows use.

Is it frustrating when something doesn't just work the way its supposed to? Yes, absolutely.

Is it equally fulfilling when you finally nail down a solution or workaround? Again, absolutely, yes.

[RiceMonster]

I you are calling Linux a hobbyist OS, they you are one who don't know how to use a computer.

lol

[Cresho]

I was wondering why, despite all the odds against it and the frustration it causes us, we continue to defend and use Linux generally & Ubuntu in particular.

Irrespective of the passionate defenses offered by the fanbois it remains that Linux is far from perfect if it is going to be one's everyday working OS.

For example, if I have a lot or large files to transfer to a flash drive I have to use a Windows machine (Linux USB transfer is too slow). Or if I need to to do video editing, I need a Windows or Mac PC. Linux doesn't have useful video editing software. If I want a Rapid Application Development (RAD) IDE, I need to go to Windows. The list goes on and I am sure many here have other examples. A friend, salesman, needs customer tracking. Has to use Windows, despite his passion for Mint.

I know there are things Linux does well. Servers & MythTV based home entertainment system. I have the latter and it is rock solid.

But when it comes to being productive, as opposed to playing mechanic under the hood, I have to question my sanity. Why do we continue to struggle on with Linux?



So, if




HAHA! I don't have a problem with anything at all. I use cinecutie for video editing, bombonoo for dvd creation, xine ui for dvd playback, kaffeine for high definition video recording from broadcasted channels and also is my hdtv viewer, I use tvtime for regular cable channels, gimp for photoshop type editing, openoffice.............etc.etc.etc. It's even my pc gaming rigg. What's the problem?

If you are pirating, sure windows is good. But If i was to add up what I use linux in windows operating system, the cost



THE COST IS 20,000 U.S. Dollars a year for me plus more. Windows is not for advanced users. It is for newbies who just got into computers. I been using pc's since....they were just 486's, Linux since.........mandrake. For windows users, just install and its done. For linux, I not only need it installed, I want to make it look exactly how I want it in any way I want it and its free.

[evermooingcow]

I can do all of my work using just an SSH client, X environment (X forwarding) and a web browser. Everything beyond that regardless of OS (whatever I may happen to be using) is a hobby. Is Linux a hobby? Largely, yes. Is Mac a hobby? No, because I don't run it. Is Windows a hobby? No, because I don't run it.

[cariboo]

This hread has degraded into the usual anti-fanboy tirade. Closed.