Impatient Users who need hand-holding

[Tristam Green]

Wouldn't you just love to smack them around once or twice?

[steveneddy]

Wouldn't you just love to smack them around once or twice?

Before this thread gets closed:

yes

I find impatient users or users that state that they are going to quite and tell us so in a thread aren't worth anyone's time.

[Noz3001]

Yes, I've found this more in the Ubuntu community than any other. Probably because it's bigger.

[julio_cortez]

In before it gets closed: it depends, if they're right I can see why they perform like that. If it's my fault I apologize and I hope everything ends there.

If they're wrong, but ask for help, I can stand it. I'd be also glad to help them (if I could.. I know quite nothing about Linux at this stage)..

But if they're wrong and are clearly trying to defend their mistaken position, I usually leave the thread alone. There's no point in arguing over the internet, upon something that maybe has been in place for years and has always worked.

[Tristam Green]

oh, i'm not talking about Ubuntu Users, fellas. Your scope is far too narrow.

I am talking to anyone out there who works in IT support at all. You know the type of user I'm talking about; the one who cannot seem to read explicit step-by-step instructions that are rife with screenshots, who call you or IM you when they cannot get a hold of a vendor helpdesk, expecting you to somehow magically know how to get a hold of their "batphone".

C'mon. You know what I'm talking about.


lol for thinking this thread has to be closed outright.

[alexfish]

In before it gets closed: it depends, if they're right I can see why they perform like that. If it's my fault I apologize and I hope everything ends there.

If they're wrong, but ask for help, I can stand it. I'd be also glad to help them (if I could.. I know quite nothing about Linux at this stage)..

But if they're wrong and are clearly trying to defend their mistaken position, I usually leave the thread alone. There's no point in arguing over the internet, upon something that maybe has been in place for years and has always worked.

Don't see the point of closing this thread unless it's a repeat , then maybe it will head into you know where, hope not.

You have hit the nail on the head.

Impatient Users please take Time and read this thread. not to mention the code of conduct

[sydbat]

oh, i'm not talking about Ubuntu Users, fellas. Your scope is far too narrow.

I am talking to anyone out there who works in IT support at all. You know the type of user I'm talking about; the one who cannot seem to read explicit step-by-step instructions that are rife with screenshots, who call you or IM you when they cannot get a hold of a vendor helpdesk, expecting you to somehow magically know how to get a hold of their "batphone".

C'mon. You know what I'm talking about.


lol for thinking this thread has to be closed outright.Oh yes. Always conjures the image that I'm Homer and the client is Bart...

[Bachstelze]

Methinks maybe you chose the wrong carrier path...

[julio_cortez]

You know the type of user I'm talking about; the one who cannot seem to read explicit step-by-step instructions that are rife with screenshots
If you talk about these users, I fully agree.


Don't see the point of closing this thread unless it's a repeat
My fault, I tought a flame war would have spread in no time.
You remember what happened the last time I bashed users for being unable of completing simple tasks, don't you? :lolflag:

[whiskeylover]

oh, i'm not talking about Ubuntu Users, fellas. Your scope is far too narrow.

I am talking to anyone out there who works in IT support at all. You know the type of user I'm talking about; the one who cannot seem to read explicit step-by-step instructions that are rife with screenshots, who call you or IM you when they cannot get a hold of a vendor helpdesk, expecting you to somehow magically know how to get a hold of their "batphone".

C'mon. You know what I'm talking about.


lol for thinking this thread has to be closed outright.

Isn't that what you're paid for?

Also reminds me of people working in the service industry complaining about customers complaining about bad food.

[CharlesA]

Meh, I need to hand-hold users most of the time I am at work. I guess you get used to it (kinda sad, amirite?)

[forrestcupp]

People on the forums? Just ignore them.

People in real life that you can't get away from? Smack them around. ;)

I've had to deal with that a lot, and I don't get paid for it. Yes it is annoying.

But to all of you arguing that it's what he gets paid for, there's a limit even for paid support. If not, we wouldn't have jokes about the "Any Key" and such.

[julio_cortez]

Isn't that what you're paid for?
Probably it is, but..
What about when you write a manual for the users to follow (and it is a step-by-step guide really), but they still call you whining because "nothing works", and when you point them out to the step-by-step guide they answer you "you are the techie, it's you that has to figure out why it doesn't work, so it's you that has to tell me what to do"?

God bless Remote Desktop sessions..

[whiskeylover]

Probably it is, but..
What about when you write a manual for the users to follow (and it is a step-by-step guide really), but they still call you whining because "nothing works", and when you point them out to the step-by-step guide they answer you "you are the techie, it's you that has to figure out why it doesn't work, so it's you that has to tell me what to do"?

God bless Remote Desktop sessions..

I agree with you to an extent. But if all users were bright enough to follow manuals, we wouldn't need IT. You should be glad for stupid users that keep you employed.

[Tristam Green]

Methinks maybe you chose the wrong carrier path...

Not really - I love my job.


Isn't that what you're paid for?

Also reminds me of people working in the service industry complaining about customers complaining about bad food.

Aww, how sweet. Yes, I am paid to do this.

If you say you've *never* once complained about your job, ever, I submit that you are a liar.




Truthfully, I should have amended the OP. I'm talking about my counterparts whose jobs I seem to be doing for them on an increasingly frequent basis. The users are easy enough to deal with, actually. I can forgive ignorance from a user. From a fellow IT support staffer? Ignorance is equated to stupidity.


Forgive the error in OP and thread title - I was dealing with a *lot* of stress induced by a counterpart of mine whose mess I was trying to clean....

[ubunterooster]

I don't mind others wanting to be walked through it. I don't really even get mad at the "you're going to fast"; What I dislike is instead of holding my hand, those who literally hit my hand away "Okay, I can do it myself now...Um, What went wrong? Why can't you give better instructions"

[whiskeylover]

Aww, how sweet. Yes, I am paid to do this.

If you say you've *never* once complained about your job, ever, I submit that you are a liar.



I was merely pointing out the obvious, just like your OP where you pointed out the obvious :rolleyes:

[John Bean]

You know the type of user I'm talking about; the one who cannot seem to read explicit step-by-step instructions

Yep. Or worse, those who did read the instructions but when interrogated admit that they didn't follow all of them because they didn't seem important. A slap seems perfectly appropriate to me.

[Tristam Green]

I was merely pointing out the obvious, just like your OP where you pointed out the obvious :rolleyes:

Hey wait, what the-

What the he-

But the wotsi-

And another th-


Okay, you got me, whiskeylover. Well played sir; well played indeed.

[McRat]

In business the "panic" people are the ones to avoid. They always leave a trainwreck in their wake.

Oddly enough, they are the ones who are least likely to pay their bills on time as well, or provide you with everything you need to do to complete a job. They demand more of others than they give out themselves.

[Penguin Guy]

People are selfish - sure they could fix the problem if they tired, but it would be quicker to just call tech support.

[ubunterooster]

in business the "panic" people are the ones to avoid. They always leave a trainwreck in their wake.

Oddly enough, they are the ones who are least likely to pay their bills on time as well, or provide you with everything you need to do to complete a job. They demand more of others than they give out themselves.
+1

[Moozillaaa]

Are you surprised that people need their hands held?

No one cares to LEARN anymore - that is, how to think through their problem. "Just give me the solution now".

And in very small part, the 'helpers' get some blame - even the totally correct answer, without an explanation, doesn't 'teach' one how to fish, it only GIVES one a fish. :wink:

[koenn]

I agree with you to an extent. But if all users were bright enough to follow manuals, we wouldn't need IT. You should be glad for stupid users that keep you employed.

IT is quite a bit more than helping users use computers/software/...
In fact, helpdesk stuff and the likes is, from an IT point of view, a waste of time.

oh, and "yes" to the OP.

[clanky]

What I hate more are IT people who think that because it is an IT issue that somehow makes them the boss, rather than the guy who is paid to sort it out.

If I call a plumber I don't expect him to spend 2 days telling me how the water leak is somehow my fault before even taking a look at the problem, for the same reason when I call my companies IT support people I don't expect some jumped up nerd to try and give me grief and tell me " you must have done something" before they even take the trouble to try and find out what the problem is.

Some IT people think that if a computer is involved in the equation somewhere then they are somehow in charge, that's like a the aforementioned plumber telling you that because you get your water from "his" pipes then you can only use it to make tea and not coffee.

As an example I recently had the company IT guy tell me where I was allowed to take my laptop, when I explained to him that I needed to take it elsewhere to do my job he tried to tell me that this wasn't his problem and that I was not allowed to move the laptop from place to place. He appeared to miss the point that he is only there to ensure that the rest of us can do what we need to do to make the company work.

[McRat]

Help desks are cost-centers, but can also be thought of as profit centers if operated as such.

If an engineer needs a simple question answered about IT issues, it pays to have somebody further down on the food chain supply them with answers. You don't want a worker who is generating $250/hr for the company looking up instructions on how to operate his machine.

Now, if a secretary who generates $40/hr is being helped by a IT tech who could be helping at $250/hr, then it doesn't work.

As caloused as it might sound, the secretary should read the instructions themselves for max profits.

[RiceMonster]

What I hate more are IT people who think that because it is an IT issue that somehow makes them the boss, rather than the guy who is paid to sort it out.

If I call a plumber I don't expect him to spend 2 days telling me how the water leak is somehow my fault before even taking a look at the problem, for the same reason when I call my companies IT support people I don't expect some jumped up nerd to try and give me grief and tell me " you must have done something" before they even take the trouble to try and find out what the problem is.

Some IT people think that if a computer is involved in the equation somewhere then they are somehow in charge, that's like a the aforementioned plumber telling you that because you get your water from "his" pipes then you can only use it to make tea and not coffee.

As an example I recently had the company IT guy tell me where I was allowed to take my laptop, when I explained to him that I needed to take it elsewhere to do my job he tried to tell me that this wasn't his problem and that I was not allowed to move the laptop from place to place. He appeared to miss the point that he is only there to ensure that the rest of us can do what we need to do to make the company work.

What about when they act all arrogant because you might not have followed the exact process they want you to follow? One time I asked an admin for a some information about a few servers, and he tried to shrug me off and talk to someone who had nothing to do with the question I was asking because I didn't word the question the way he wanted. I'm not kidding.

[clanky]

What about when they act all arrogant because you might not have followed the exact process they want you to follow? One time I asked an admin for a some information about a few servers, and he tried to shrug me off and talk to someone who had nothing to do with the question I was asking because I didn't word the question the way he wanted. I'm not kidding.

Yeah, our resident IT idiot at work has just set up a help desk system, with a really convoluted procedure which was announced by an e-mail saying that any issued which are not raised via the help desk "will NOT be addressed", I sent a help desk e-mail which got ignored then sent an e-mail direct to the IT guy which he responded to with a snotty e-mail copied to everyone and his dog telling me that he had quite clearly issued instruction for IT support issues and that mine would not be dealt with until I followed the instructions. I replied, attached the original e-mail, read him his fortune, replied to all and added a few extras just so that everyone could watch him squirm.

He sent an apology to me without copying anyone else in, so i replied to that with the full cc list.

[koenn]

What I hate more are IT people who think that because it is an IT issue that somehow makes them the boss, rather than the guy who is paid to sort it out.
...

Some IT people think that if a computer is involved in the equation somewhere then they are somehow in charge, that's like a the aforementioned plumber telling you that because you get your water from "his" pipes then you can only use it to make tea and not coffee.

....

otoh, just because there's a computer involved doesn't mean IT are supposed to know all answers to all questions. I've had people ask me questions about bookkeeping, just because they happen to be using bookkeeping software, so every bookkeeping problem becomes an IT problem. I've had people ask me questions about car parts, because they were managed in a database. I've had questions about layout and graphic design etc and I'm supposed to be an expert in document management and archiving, because, well, it's done with computers these days.

Not to mention all the basic secretarial skills you're supposed to have just because these things are done with word processors, spreadsheets etc.
It's all IT, right ?

[clanky]

otoh, just because there's a computer involved doesn't mean IT are supposed to know all answers to all questions. I've had people ask me questions about bookkeeping, just because they happen to be using bookkeeping software, so every bookkeeping problem becomes an IT problem. I've had people ask me questions about car parts, because they were managed in a database. I've had questions about layout and graphic design etc and I'm supposed to be an expert in document management and archiving, because, well, it's done with computers these days.

Not to mention all the basic secretarial skills you're supposed to have just because these things are done with word processors, spreadsheets etc.
It's all IT, right ?

lol, I'll have to bear that in mind, next time I call IT I'll ask them if they can do anything about the air conditioning.

[Tristam Green]

otoh, just because there's a computer involved doesn't mean IT are supposed to know all answers to all questions. I've had people ask me questions about bookkeeping, just because they happen to be using bookkeeping software, so every bookkeeping problem becomes an IT problem. I've had people ask me questions about car parts, because they were managed in a database. I've had questions about layout and graphic design etc and I'm supposed to be an expert in document management and archiving, because, well, it's done with computers these days.

Not to mention all the basic secretarial skills you're supposed to have just because these things are done with word processors, spreadsheets etc.
It's all IT, right ?

haha, funny you mention that - this morning's little brouhaha was related to Financial software.

[Moozillaaa]

What I hate more are IT people who think that because it is an IT issue that somehow makes them the boss, rather than the guy who is paid to sort it out.

If I call a plumber I don't expect him to spend 2 days telling me how the water leak is somehow my fault before even taking a look at the problem, for the same reason when I call my companies IT support people I don't expect some jumped up nerd to try and give me grief and tell me " you must have done something" before they even take the trouble to try and find out what the problem is.

Some IT people think that if a computer is involved in the equation somewhere then they are somehow in charge, that's like a the aforementioned plumber telling you that because you get your water from "his" pipes then you can only use it to make tea and not coffee.

As an example I recently had the company IT guy tell me where I was allowed to take my laptop, when I explained to him that I needed to take it elsewhere to do my job he tried to tell me that this wasn't his problem and that I was not allowed to move the laptop from place to place. He appeared to miss the point that he is only there to ensure that the rest of us can do what we need to do to make the company work.

Are you sure you wouldn't want give him 2 days??? (figuratively speaking, 2 days)

Consider this:

He will charge alot, regardless of whose fault it is, with or without 'educating' you.

The problem WILL happen again.

When it DOES happen, you have the option, IF you gave him '2 days', to either fix the problem yourself, or to pay again someone to fix the problem.


Another example is your car.

You don't necessarily have to be able to fix your car when something goes wrong, but KNOWING how it works will prevent an unscrupulous mechanic from cleaning out your wallet - you'll know if you're getting a snow job.

Now if you're rich, they you might not be concerned about resources, or learning, and you just 'want it now'.


I presume that free computer operating software is the same - most users don't care how it works, just that it does.

[RiceMonster]

Are you sure you wouldn't want give him 2 days??? (figuratively speaking, 2 days)

Consider this:

He will charge alot, regardless of whose fault it is, with or without 'educating' you.

The problem WILL happen again.

When it DOES happen, you have the option, IF you gave him '2 days', to either fix the problem yourself, or to pay again someone to fix the problem.


Another example is your car.

You don't necessarily have to be able to fix your car when something goes wrong, but KNOWING how it works will prevent an unscrupulous mechanic from cleaning out your wallet - you'll know if you're getting a snow job.

Now if you're rich, they you might not be concerned about resources, or learning, and you just 'want it now'.


I presume that free computer operating software is the same - most users don't care how it works, just that it does.

I think you misunderstand. Clanky said "telling me how the water leak is somehow my fault" rather than "telling me why the water leak occured and how to fix it". There's a big difference there.

[wilee-nilee]

Wouldn't you just love to smack them around once or twice?

What a functional response; a little self serving.:lolflag:

[koenn]

lol, I'll have to bear that in mind, next time I call IT I'll ask them if they can do anything about the air conditioning.
were I work only the server room has airco, but we do quite regularly get asked for 'support' with the building's P.A., various sound systems, the automated door system, the fire and burglar alarms, and occasionally the microwave oven and the coffee maker in the cafeteria. Basically everything that has a wire is apparently IT. According to some, we should also be in charge of office furniture, because it's mainly used by people using computers.

[Tristam Green]

were I work only the server room has airco, but we do quite regularly get asked for 'support' with the building's P.A., various sound systems, the automated door system, the fire and burglar alarms, and occasionally the microwave oven and the coffee maker in the cafeteria. Basically everything that has a wire is apparently IT. According to some, we should also be in charge of office furniture, because it's mainly used by people using computers.

I had to change phone lines running to the alarm systems a couple weeks ago.

I called our alarm system company and made them do it.

[Moozillaaa]

I think you misunderstand. Clanky said "telling me how the water leak is somehow my fault" rather than "telling me why the water leak occured and how to fix it". There's a big difference there.

I did miss that.

He's describing multi-faceted failure on the part of the serviceperson.

That serviceperson fails to see that, as a hand-holder, they have something to do (employment), and that if they practice 'teaching' while they are 'doing', they get better at both, and at the same time, they become better 'learners', even if the subject doesn't care to learn about the leak/car/computer...

[Tristam Green]

I did miss that.

He's describing multi-faceted failure on the part of the serviceperson.

That serviceperson fails to see that, as a hand-holder, they have something to do (employment), and that if they practice 'teaching' while they are 'doing', they get better at both, and at the same time, they become better 'learners', even if the subject doesn't care to learn about the leak/car/computer...

"You" have a "lot" of "quotation marks" in your "post". lol

[RiceMonster]

"You" have a "lot" of "quotation marks" in your "post". lol

"no" "u"

[Moozillaaa]

"You" have a "lot" of "quotation marks" in your "post". lol

Is that bad?

Or is it REAL bad???

:lolflag:

[Penguin Guy]

What I hate more are IT people who think that because it is an IT issue that somehow makes them the boss, rather than the guy who is paid to sort it out.

Yeah, our resident IT idiot at work has just set up a help desk system, with a really convoluted procedure which was announced by an e-mail saying that any issued which are not raised via the help desk "will NOT be addressed"
...
I replied, attached the original e-mail, read him his fortune, replied to all and added a few extras just so that everyone could watch him squirm.
I've got no problem with intelligent IT people who set up clever systems for dealing with certain issues and then expect their system to be used. But I do hate those IT morons who set up complex hard-to-use, annoying systems, and rudely demand that they are used. Glad that guy got what he deserved.

[KiwiNZ]

Before I reached the lofty heights of CIO I managed several IT Support units and there was a banner that I took with me and I would hang on the wall of each and every one.

It was.....

"We do not speak ill of our customers"

My ire would befall anyone who broke that rule.

The other one I had was .....

"Every customer that complains presents us with a gift"

[Tristam Green]

Before I reached the lofty heights of CIO I managed several IT Support units and there was a banner that I took with me and I would hang on the wall of each and every one.

It was.....

"We do not speak ill of our customers"

My ire would befall anyone who broke that rule.

The other one I had was .....

"Every customer that complains presents us with a gift"

What about "We do not speak ill of our less-than-capable counterparts"?

That, or for lack of tact, "Ask yourself 'is this good for the company?'"

[koenn]

Before I reached the lofty heights of CIO I managed several IT Support units and there was a banner that I took with me and I would hang on the wall of each and every one.

It was.....

"We do not speak ill of our customers"

My ire would befall anyone who broke that rule.

The other one I had was .....

"Every customer that complains presents us with a gift"

Given the sense of humour my colleges have, if I were to do that, those banners would quickly be adapted to show something along the lines of

"We do not speak ill of our customers ; we're not allowed to"

or

Every customer that complains presents us with a gift. Poisoned apples, mostly.

[KiwiNZ]

Given the sense of humour my colleges have, if I were to do that, those banners would quickly be adapted to show something along the lines of

"We do not speak ill of our customers ; we're not allowed to"

or

Every customer that complains presents us with a gift. Poisoned apples, mostly.

My response would be ...

your successor will not speak ill of our customers ;)

Yes I was a tough Manager , but in Customer Sat surveys my support units consistently scored around 98% approval.
I also had low staff turn over rates, I rewarded good staff with good salaries.

[Tristam Green]

My response would be ...

your successor will not speak ill of our customers ;)

Yes I was a tough Manager , but in Customer Sat surveys my support units consistently scored around 98% approval.
I also had low staff turn over rates, I rewarded good staff with good salaries.

You are/were a rare kind of manager then. Here it's mostly a "the beatings will continue until morale improves" mentality.

Either way, like I said a page or two back, my OP should have really been more about impatient+lazy counterparts who need hand-holding. Actual users are rarely a problem to me.

[koenn]

My response would be ...

your successor will not speak ill of our customers ;)

lol



Yes I was a tough Manager , but in Customer Sat surveys my support units consistently scored around 98% approval.
I also had low staff turn over rates, I rewarded good staff with good salaries.

I work in public service. Firing people is next to impossible ("they'd have to have committed a murder, while on the job, in the presence of 3 witnesses", as the saying goes), and salaries are regulated, you can't just give a raise like that.

So my policy is more like "it's allowed to vent, just don't do it in front of the others, keep it in here (in the IT dept.)". And having a sense of humour is greatly encouraged, it's practically a requirement.
So far, this seems to be working to keep people motivated and do a good job.

[koenn]

You are/were a rare kind of manager then. Here it's mostly a "the beatings will continue until morale improves" mentality.

Either way, like I said a page or two back, my OP should have really been more about impatient+lazy counterparts who need hand-holding. Actual users are rarely a problem to me.
hm yeah, but it's pretty much the same thing. you expect other people (the users you support, the people you work with, the people that work for you, ...) to be competent, to do a good job, to take responsibility for their actions both good and bad, and clean up after themselves when they f*cked up.

(and then when they don't and you get to suffer the consequences, that stupid banner says you're not even allowed to complain about it :) )

[KiwiNZ]

lol



I work in public service. Firing people is next to impossible ("they'd have to have committed a murder, while on the job, in the presence of 3 witnesses", as the saying goes), and salaries are regulated, you can't just give a raise like that.

So my policy is more like "it's allowed to vent, just don't do it in front of the others, keep it in here (in the IT dept.)". And having a sense of humour is greatly encouraged, it's practically a requirement.
So far, this seems to be working to keep people motivated and do a good job.

The reason I have the dont speak ill policy , even off line is it perpetuates a attitude that permeates through out the organisation. It becomes in ground and affects performance. Trust I have seen it , it was present in a helpdesk I was brought in to "clean up", I ended up cleaning more than just the Helpdesk , I cleaned first,second,third level support and other areas as well .

Venting as you say can be done when you get home.

However I did have a little thing I did for staff.Each staff member had a Towel I gave them . If they felt under pressure , things were too much , they needed time out no questions asked they could come and put the towel on my desk and go home , go for a walk ..... in other words "throw in the towel" as long as it was not abused I was OK with it and would only talk to them about at their request. It was never abused.

[koenn]

The reason I have the dont speak ill policy , even off line is it perpetuates a attitude that permeates through out the organisation. It becomes in ground and affects performance. Trust I have seen it , it was present in a helpdesk I was brought in to "clean up", I ended up cleaning more than just the Helpdesk , I cleaned first,second,third level support and other areas as well .

Venting as you say can be done when you get home.


I see what you mean - it can turn negative, bitter, ... and if users are ridiculed, helping them out suddenly becomes less important, and the quality of support drops, fast.

We're a small group, though, so it's easy to stay on top of it and stop negative turns when they occur.

I do like the "throw in the towel" thing.

[nothingspecial]

Sounds, to me, like some of you are getting cross/frustrated with people who are cross/frustrated.

Funny.:p

[Moozillaaa]

Sounds, to me, like some of you are getting cross/frustrated with people who are cross/frustrated.

Funny.:p

Negation - in any form - has a tendency to fester. It's always easier to break down, than to build up.

It is not productive, and efforts to stymie it over and over again WOULD lead to frustration.

[nothingspecial]

I do like the "throw in the towel" thing.

That towel thing, is absolute genius!

I ran my own business for 10 years + (absolutely nothing to do with IT)

I ended up with 27 employees.

I didn`t have any business training, it just grew.

What, I`m asking is, was that your idea, or is it it standard? - I`d have loved to have known about it.

[dragos240]

Yes. Impatient users, I honestly would just like to slap them. No, and is that what this thread is about?

[KiwiNZ]

That towel thing, is absolute genius!

I ran my own business for 10 years + (absolutely nothing to do with IT)

I ended up with 27 employees.

I didn`t have any business training, it just grew.

What, I`m asking is, was that your idea, or is it it standard? - I`d have loved to have known about it.

The towel idea was mine, my thoughts were its better to give time out than time off. I looked after my staff as well as I looked after my customers, after all they both add to the bottom line.