Nautilus vs Konqueror as a file manager

[Sirin]

Dear Ubuntu people

What is better in your opinion, Nautilus, or Konqueror?

Post your reasons. :)

[drummer]

Nautilus for me, although I haven't used kde in a while. Konqueror reminds me of Explorer... which.. I.. don't.. like.. one bit. Just personal preference.

[ComplexNumber]

nautilus by a long long way. the number of reasons why nautilus is far superior to konqueror are many and varied. some of them are as follows:
-it sticks to being a file manager. where's the separation between konq the web browser and konq the file manager? there isn't any. all settings and everything that apply to one, also apply to the other.
-more reliable.
-naultilus completes all operations. has anyone ever managed to successfully get konqueror to do something without failing part way (try getting konqueror to untar 30 or more tarballs without giving up part way for no reason every single damn time :evil: )?
-more intuitive and more pleasent to use
-spatial browsing. if you have a directory consisting of many directories and you go to open up one of the directories half way down (for example), browse through that directory then return to the parent directory, naultilus remembers where it was (ie half way down) whereas konqueror returns you to the start every single time. this is so damn annoying (especially if every directory has to be inspected)!
-use of emblems
-those damn kparts in konqueror are READ-ONLY. i keep on forgetting this and click on a file in an attempt to change the contents, then i realise that i can't so i have to open up a separate application anyway. naultilus opens up the appropriate application by default.

[ssam]

in unix a program should do one thing and do it well.
its not perfect, id like to be able to drag and drop to the location bar.
i also like to be able to eject disks from the places side bar.
and a column browser would be good (though the location bar with drag and drop would probably be enough).

[DoeRayMe]

Konqueror: faster, got the features i need and looks better IMO :)

[htinn]

In this case, I actually prefer Konq. Nautilus is far too limiting and n00b-friendly to compare favorably with Konqueror. Of course, I prefer Krusader to either one of those two. :P

[fuscia]

i must be the only end user who prefers using the cl for file managment. (and you people call yourselves geeks? hmpf!)

[Jucato]

Voted for Konqi. I like Konqueror, but not so much as to bow down to it :D
There are still some things that needs to be improved, though. It's far from being perfect, but I like it the way it is.
- Separation between web browser and file manager: not clear cut as the separation between Nautilus and Firefox, but there still is:. The menus/submenus available to you change depending on what is displayed,; the metabar doesn't show in web pages, and some others. Also, not all settings are that apply to one is applied to the other: font sizes, links, etc. (I don't have Kubuntu running right now so I can't give more specific examples).
- reliability? case to case basis, depends on the user, depends on the system, too many variables to really have a definitive answer.
- untar 30 or more tarballs all at the same time, maybe. one after the other? you don't even have to untar them. Just click/double-click on the tarball and copy-paste the contents as if it were a real directory. Besides, it isn't Konqueror that's doing the untarring/tarring process, but rather the KPart of Ark (KDE compression app).
- intuitiveness and pleasure? again, subjective and personal. (But then again, it's your opinion, so it's obviously personal right? :D)
- about the "remembering what part of the directory", I admit it's sometimes annoying. But sometimes, if I click on "Back", I return to where I was in the directory (half-way down). Sometimes... just sometimes... :D
- oh yes, emblems. One thing I envy about Nautilus. But then again, with so many different icons to choose from, I rarely had the reason to use them. Still, it's a very, very nice feature of Nautilus. Kudos to Nautilus for that.
- you can set up Konqueror to automatically launch the associated external app anytime you click on a file. I'm not exactly sure how it can be done to affect all files, regardless of file type, but it can be done. Besides, Konqueror is a file manager/web browser/document viewer, not an editing app. It is already being criticized for doing too much. If you were to add the capability to edit files, then that would be way overboard. Besides, Nautilus doesn't do this either. But anyway, the problem is that people accustomed to Nautilus might forget that. But an easy thing to remember is that if it launches in the same window, it's not for editing.

But there are some things that I would rather do in CLI rather than in GUI, whether Konqi or Nauti (hmm... Nauti... :D) like recursive ownership/permission changes, or copying to root-owned folders, etc. And, not everyone here is a geek.

By the way, what is the "nickname" of Nautilus? If Konqueror is Konqi (actually it's the mascot of KDE), what is Nautilus'? I called it Nauti, but just didn't sound right. :D

[awakatanka]

Konqueror because i'm a kubuntu man. Nautilus i don't know to good to judge about.

[earobinson]

right now i use thunar

[ComplexNumber]

- untar 30 or more tarballs all at the same time, maybe. one after the other? you don't even have to untar them. Just click/double-click on the tarball and copy-paste the contents as if it were a real directory. Besides, it isn't Konqueror that's doing the untarring/tarring process, but rather the KPart of Ark (KDE compression app). hehe i know you're referring to my post ;). its a practical point, though. for example, i have a whole load of themes and icons for kde and gnome that i've stored on disk. there are literally hundreds of them that i've got from kde-look and gnome-look. when i install a new distro, i have to unpack all the hundreds of tarballs. the case in point is that konquereor ALWAYS fails to unpack them all. it just gives up part way. the only way to get round it is to get konqueror to untar about 10 at a time and then check them all to see if hasn't left any out (this is usually the case), but that takes forever. meanwhile, if i get naultilus to unpack them all in one go, it unpacks them ALL WITHOUT FAIL.

and thats the point i was making.


also, don't forget the plugin system differences in konqueroror and nautilus - konquerors plugins MUST be written in C++ whilst naultilus can be written much more easily using python.

[Jucato]

also, don't forget the plugin system differences in konqueroror and nautilus - konquerors plugins MUST be written in C++ whilst naultilus can be written much more easily using python.
Or the fact that there are very few Konqueror plugins? :D
Really, I haven't found any that are outside the default Kubuntu install, if there are any. But do they really have to be written in C++? or can they use python bindings (I already know your opinion about the bindings in Qt :D)? So Nautilus plugins are absolutely written in python, or a binding of python? But then again, there's not much of an issue there, as most people (keyword: most) developing for KDE are using C++, or some binding.

Anyway, I haven't really untarred that many tarballs. I hope I can get my PC repaired ASAP so that I can try this (I've got loads of tarballs in there). But probably the fault is not in Konqueror itself, but more on Ark's KPart.

Nauti has a built in compression/decompression app?
(I'll keep calling Nautilus as Nauti, as I prefer to use "terms of endearment" on apps. :D)

[ComplexNumber]

But probably the fault is not in Konqueror itself, but more on Ark's KPart. or just one of the limitations/bugs of kpart itself.




Anyway, I haven't really untarred that many tarballs. I hope I can get my PC repaired ASAP so that I can try this also note that konqueror will only untar tarballs of the same type (eg all gz or all bz2) in one go (but failing part way). nautilus untars them all in one go.




Nauti has a built in compression/decompression app? what do you mean exactly?

[Jucato]

what I meant was that Konqueror itself does not do the extracting/untarring, but uses the Ark's KPart (which, if what you experienced was true for everyone, is buggy/limited). Meaning, without that KPart, Konqueror would be unable to extract/untar anything at all. Meaning also, that fixing that particular KPart (presuming it is really bugged) would fix the problem that you had.

In the absence of KParts in GNOME, I was presuming that Nautilus has a built in untarring/extracting part, making Nautilus both a file manager and a compression/decompression program. (Of course one could argue that compression/decompression is a part of file management, but then again that's another topic.)

OH

[Jucato]

what I meant was that Konqueror itself does not do the extracting/untarring, but uses the Ark's KPart (which, if what you experienced was true for everyone, is buggy/limited). Meaning, without that KPart, Konqueror would be unable to extract/untar anything at all. Meaning also, that fixing that particular KPart (presuming it is really bugged) would fix the problem that you had.

In the absence of KParts in GNOME, I was presuming that Nautilus has a built in untarring/extracting part, making Nautilus both a file manager and a compression/decompression program. (Of course one could argue that compression/decompression is a part of file management, but then again that's another topic.)

Oh while I'm at it, let me post some things I actually like about Nauti:
1. Emblems: they're both cool and useful
2. The location bar (the one like Home > User > Folder > etc). I only wish you could have both that location bar and the address bar (the one where you type in the exact location) active at the same time, one under/beside the other.
3. Pre-defined "Places" (the one on the left side panel? I don't know the exact name). The Navigation panel in Konqi has them, too. But they tend to be a bit cluttered at times. :D
4. The name. Although I like Konqueror's name too, once you realize that it surpasses the Navigator (Netscape?) and the Explorer (MS?), the Nautilus also sounds very... huge. Still don't know what's the relation between the Nautilus (the ship) and file management, though. :D

[ComplexNumber]

In the absence of KParts in GNOME, I was presuming that Nautilus has a built in untarring/extracting part, making Nautilus both a file manager and a compression/decompression program. (Of course one could argue that compression/decompression is a part of file management, but then again that's another topic.) it uses bonobo. the process for untarring in konqueror is exactly the same for nautilus - eg select files, right click and select from menu.

[Lord Illidan]

I prefer Konqueror for file browsing. That said, Nautilus is improving...Thunar is good too, nice and fast.

[ComplexNumber]

Still don't know what's the relation between the Nautilus (the ship) and file management, though. could it be navigation and exploration (of the file structure) by any chance? ;). things that the nautilus did.

[Jucato]

Hmm, yeah. Given what that vessel was used for. But I still can't help imagining a squid whenever I hear/see the name (whether in books, web pages, and in GNOME) :D

[Lord Illidan]

Here is to hoping that Gnome doesn't go down a whirlpool like the Nautilus!
Then, who is Captain Nemo? Poofyhairguy?

[ComplexNumber]

Here is to hoping that Gnome doesn't go down a whirlpool like the Nautilus!
Then, who is Captain Nemo? Poofyhairguy?
actually, the name nautilus has been used for ships long being jules verne wrote 20,000 leagues under the sea.

[e^e]

nautilus does the job fast, konq for me feels more sluggish. Besides konq's default size is just too huge even on high resolutions, so you'll have to reconfigure it to your liking.

[njf]

Konqueror. Tab support, mouse gesture, intergration with kparts make it a powerful document viewer (playing with mouse gesture while viewing pdf woot). Gwenview provides a image view mode which is great. And
Kio-slave also makes managing remote files damn easy. And it is definitely faster than nautilus when opening large folder.

[Gijith]

Big fan of Konqueror on every level (except its occasional crashes).

[fuscia]

right now i use thunar

file management for vikings? what the fork is thunar?

[magnusbb]

I use them both, actually. For simple file operations, when I want something done in a hurry, or for the dialy double-click and document-handling, I use Nautilus.

When there are more, advanced tasks to be done, I prefer Konqueror. I also like Konqueror's flexibility with the handy KParts and KIOslaves. The most recent version, 3.5.2, is also very stable. In the earlier versions, I had more problems, actually.

[Rhaurison Bergamin]

For admin users, konqueror is better (Krusader too).
We can use sftp: smb: ftp: muilt view, twin panel, and much much more then nautilus... nautilus is for end users.

but konqueror (KDE in general) suck more memory than nautilus .... I would like to use gnome with a filemanager like konqueror.

[DigitalDuality]

Upon using KDE in Fedora, and doing 2 installs of Kubuntu, i can' stand Konq as a file manager.

I can never have my vid files or movies preview before opening them, the way it handles long text file names makes my folder's look tacky, and not to mention..

it's slow.

[GeneralZod]

I can never have my vid files or movies preview before opening them,

Did you install kdemultimedia, kdemultimedia-kfile-plugins and kdemultimedia-kio-plugins?

[kassetra]

We can use sftp: smb: ftp: muilt view, twin panel, and much much more then nautilus... nautilus is for end users.

I use sftp, smb, ftp, svn, and some others in Nautilus. :-k

[MenZa]

http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/9720/screenshotmenzafilebrowser2fy.png

<3

[bonzodog]

I use Thunar as well, and it is REALLY good, especially it's latest release for Xubuntu Dapper, so I haven't voted up there. Thunar is a seperate GTK File Manager for XFCE, for those of you that don't know.

[Sushi]

Konqueror is the best file-manager available, period. that said, I use Nautilus comfortably as well. And since I'm currently using GNOME, I use Nautilus. But comparing both Konqueror and Nautilus, Konqueror mops the floor with Nautilus, when you talk of actual functionality. Tabs, split-views, embedded terminal, Kparts, KIO-slaves, mouse-gestures.... It has it all.

[stoeptegel]

I feel myself lost and with too less options when i don't use konqueror. I think i am a guy that likes to have many bells and whistles. (when they're thought out nicely)

[Iandefor]

I like Nautilus better. Konqueror feels cluttered to me.

I tried using Thunar, but for some reason, it just doesn't hit the spot.

[asimon]

I am used to both, but I much prefer Konqueror because it's much faster, configurable (still no configurable keybinding in Nautilus) and there are some very good kparts. And those different profiles are nice too. I have one for doing ftp stuff on my webserver which is different to my default file browsing profile. Very convenient.
Although I prefer the look of Nautilus to that of konqueror my priority is productivity, not looks. And I am just faster doing stuff with konqueror. Use whatever you like most.

[treris]

I've actually been using Krusader very much since the getgo, I just prefer having a twinpanel and I like having a clear distinction between the file manager and my internet browser, that said, I don't think I have used Nautilus enough to really compare it with either Konqueror of Krusader.

I have noticed that Konqueror has gotten a lot more stabile since I first started using kubuntu (about a year ago) so kudos for that.

but by now I've gotten so much used to Krusader that I don't think I'll ever use Konqueror much again

[Lovechild]

Spatial Nautilus for me, it does what I need in a speedy manner without cluttering my life..

Much love!

[commodore]

I like Konqueror because of tabs and the ability to browse web at the same time (when you are reading a tutorial and looking for a location of file).

[Christmas]

I think it's obvious... Nautilus will have to improve a lot to be what Konqueror is, and I'm only speaking about file browsing not to mention the other functions Konqueror provides. Tabbed windows for example is one the great things Konqueror offers while Nautilus doesn't. However the navigation through files like root or home folder seems to me easier in Nautilus.

[ComplexNumber]

I think it's obvious... Nautilus will have to improve a lot to be what Konqueror is, and I'm only speaking about file browsing not to mention the other functions Konqueror provides. i think you'll find that its the other way around. its konqueror that has to improve as a file manger up to the standard of nautilus. it can start by having some sort of spatial awareness like nautilus does - sheesh! even windows' explorer has some spatial sense. konqueror is the only major file manager(?) that doesn't and thats why its so damn cumbersome to use. that and the unecessary kparts(which are read only, so just have the effect of annoying users who want to edit a file) and its tendency to only part-finish a job(eg extracting or transfering files)

[aysiu]

I prefer KDE in general, but I think I like more of the features in Nautilus than in Konqueror.

In favor of Nautilus
I cannot use Konqueror as my web browser, even though it is a web browser. Why? Because I do a little bit of website design, and in my file associations, HTML files are associated with Kate, not Konqueror, so if I try to use Konqueror as a web browser, it always asks what I want to do with a file when I click a link. Lame.

When I want to rename a file in Konqueror, it assumes I want to rename the whole file. Nautilus knows I want to keep the extension intact (but it also allows me to change the extension should I want to--I can always override the default).

Sometimes I like to view my hidden files. Sometimes I don't. In Nautilus, it's just Control-H. In Konqueror, I need more keystrokes: Alt-V, then H.

In Konqueror, I can't double-click executables to launch them. In Nautilus, I have the option to execute them or execute them in terminal.

Konqueror has too many buttons and toolbars, and not all of them are easy to get rid of.

In favor of Konqueror
To make a link, I just drag the file and select link here. In Nautilus I have to middle-click-drag the file--kind of annoying.

I can save view profiles--a nice feature Nautilus is missing.

I can bookmark my FTP sites without having to be prompted for my keyring password when I just want to take a screenshot. This is some weird bug in Nautilus I've already filed a bug report (https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/gnome-keyring-manager/+bug/39239) on.

I can double-click a .php file, and it'll open in a text editor. In Nautilus, I have to right-click it and select "open with" and then the text editor. Otherwise, I get some weird warning about how the file content is HTML but the name is PHP, and I shouldn't open it unless it's from a trusted source.

[helpme]

i think you'll find that its the other way around. its konqueror that has to improve as a file manger up to the standard of nautilus. it can start by having some sort of spatial awareness like nautilus does - sheesh! even windows' explorer has some spatial sense. konqueror is the only major file manager(?) that doesn't and thats why its so damn cumbersome to use. that and the unecessary kparts(which are read only, so just have the effect of annoying users who want to edit a file) and its tendency to only part-finish a job(eg extracting or transfering files)
Hehe, leave it to the resident zealot to stupidly bash KDE.
1. No, kparts are not read only.
2. No, a filebrowser does not have to have some spatial sense to be usable. (What's that supposed to be anyway? Do you even know what spatial is? How much spatial sense does nautilus have in browser mode, the default mode on Ubuntu?)
3. And don't we all just know that nautilus never, ever only part-finishes a job...

[aysiu]

What is all this spatial stuff? Is that where instead of opening in the same window, a link opens in a new window somewhere else and has no Back button?

[helpme]

What is all this spatial stuff? Is that where instead of opening in the same window, a link opens in a new window somewhere else and has no Back button?
Essentially, yes, that's spatial nautilus.

[ComplexNumber]

What is all this spatial stuff? Is that where instead of opening in the same window, a link opens in a new window somewhere else and has no Back button? no, its not what it actually is. many people seem to equate spatial sense with opening up in another browser, for some reason. that was just an aspect of it. (note that when i open a directory, i always set it so that it opens in the same window).
i've explained it a few times before, so i've cut and pasted my (slightly unclear) explanation here:

when i go to a directory (eg /usr/share/themes) that have many directories in them and i open up any particular directory(eg Clearlooks), then view/edit the contents, then exit out again, i want to be able to return to the same place in the long list of directories. konqueror annoyingly takes me back to the start of the directory (ie the start of /usr/share/themes) so that i have to go and locate the directory(ie Clearlooks) again. i don't want that. i want to go back to where i last was (ie a view where i can still see Clearlooks) so that i can (for example) view/modify the next directory along (eg Clearlooks-cairo-lila). thats what the spatial sense is all about - remembering the previous actual spatial position within the file system. konqueror has no spatial sense like file managers should do

[helpme]

no, its not what it actually is. many people seem to equate spatial sense with opening up in another browser, for some reason. that was just an aspect of it. (note that when i open a directory, i always set it so that it opens in the same window).
i've explained it a few times before, so i've cut and pasted my (slightly unclear) explanation here:

thats what the spatial sense is all about - remembering the previous actual spatial position within the file system.
You know what's funny.
Konqueror actually does exactly that.
I really have to keep wondering why you feel the need to constantly post FUD about KDE. It's pathetic.

[aysiu]

I really have to keep wondering why you feel the need to constantly post FUD about KDE. It's pathetic. Can you give ComplexNumber the benefit of the doubt? Maybe she/he is using an older version of KDE?

[helpme]

Can you give ComplexNumber the benefit of the doubt? Maybe she/he is using an older version of KDE?
No, not with his/her history.
I mean, claiming that kparts are read only simply means he/she is so incredibly uninformed that posting anything about the subject shouldn't be an option, or it's a blatant lie.

And kparts have been read/write since I remember using KDE and that's several years back, so no older version excuse here.

[ComplexNumber]

Can you give ComplexNumber the benefit of the doubt? Maybe she/he is using an older version of KDE? its a "he". the KDE that i used that doesn't have this is the one that is present in suse 10, and it doesn't have it.



And kparts have been read/write since I remember using KDE and that's several years back, so no older version excuse here. kparts is read only and always has been. fire up konqueror, click on it to open a file (eg text etc), then try to edit it. notice that you can't.

[aysiu]

Apparently, SuSE 10.0 used KDE 3.4.2. Maybe this is a new feature in KDE 3.5?

[ComplexNumber]

Apparently, SuSE 10.0 used KDE 3.4.2. Maybe this is a new feature in KDE 3.5? i will install 3.5 later, and let you know. but i can bet my bottom dollar that it doesn't. there has been no mention of it anywhere. i've only used 3,5 briefly, but not to know the finer details.

[helpme]

kparts is read only and always has been. fire up konqueror, click on it to open a file (eg text etc), then try to edit it file. notice that you can't.
No they aren't and never have been.
FFS kparts are used in kdevelop, you can choose the editor you want usint kparts.
Do you really want to tell me they are read only?

[helpme]

And if you don't believe me, maybe you believe big blue:
http://www-128.ibm.com/developerworks/library/l-kparts/


KParts applies specifically to graphical components, such as viewers and editors, for any kind of data. Example viewers, also called "read-only parts," are the directory views in Konqueror, the HTML browser widget, the image viewers, the DVI viewer, the PS/PDF viewer, and the text viewers. Editors, or "read-write parts," are components that can modify data, such as text editors and KOffice applications.

[ComplexNumber]

No they aren't and never have been.
FFS kparts are used in kdevelop, you can choose the editor you want usint kparts.
Do you really want to tell me they are read only? exactly, thats a kpart, and its always been read only. thats not much use because it means that the user has to fire up a seperate application anyway...exactly like nautilus.......so any fanfare from kde folk about having kparts in konqueror is just wasted breath.

[GeneralZod]

No they aren't and never have been.
FFS kparts are used in kdevelop, you can choose the editor you want usint kparts.
Do you really want to tell me they are read only?

It's possible he chose "Preview In" -> "Embedded Advanced Text Editor". This does indeed seem to be read-only in my install (current Kubuntu Dapper).

I can confirm that Konqueror does (as helpme claimed) behave in the way ComplexNumber said that it didn't, although it is rather quirky.

[psychicdragon]

I find Konqueror to be a great file manager and a decent web browser. It's absolutely terrible if you try to use it for both however. The view profiles don't save which toolbars are displayed so you have to use the same toolbars in your browser and file manager. Having the same set of file associations in your file manager and browser is just silly too. All lot of the menu items are never used (though Nautilus suffers from this as well, only slightly less).

Nautilus is pretty decent. My only real complaints about it are that it starts up slow as hell if it's not drawing your desktop (I can't stand desktop icons), and it seems to flake out occasionaly when copying files between disks and over samba.

I use Thunar as my file manager.

[helpme]

It's possible he chose "Preview In" -> "Embedded Advanced Text Editor". This does indeed seem to be read-only in my install (current Kubuntu Dapper).

This is possible, but begs the question which part of preview he didn't understand.

[helpme]

exactly, thats a kpart, and its always been read only. thats not much use because it means that the user has to fire up a seperate application anyway...exactly like nautilus.......so any fanfare from kde folk about having kparts in konqueror is just wasted breath.
So the freaking editor people use to hack in their code is in your little world supposed to be read only?

Jesus, can you believe it...

[ComplexNumber]

I can confirm that Konqueror does (as helpme claimed) behave in the way ComplexNumber said that it didn't, although it is rather quirky. what are you referring to?



This is possible, but begs the question which part of preview he didn't understand. hold on. in nautilus, when you click on the application, it fires up the relavent editor. in konqueror, when you click on the file, its read only. you have to right click and then select an appropriate aplication to open it with in order to edit it....nautilus also has that functionality, and it doesn't need any component technology such as kparts. note that when you click on a text file, it will bring up kate (ie an editor), but its still read only. thats what i'm referring to. there is no actual benefit of kparts in this context

[GeneralZod]

exactly, thats a kpart, and its always been read only. thats not much use because it means that the user has to fire up a seperate application anyway...exactly like nautilus.......so any fanfare from kde folk about having kparts in konqueror is just wasted breath.

kparts are not inherently "read-only", as you can tell by the link helpme gave. They are split - deliberately - into Viewers (for quick - well, "Viewing", of a file) and Editors (for editing). Generally, in Konqueror (a browser) you would want only to View files, rather than Edit them. I'm quite sure that the decision to make the text Viewer a Viewer only is a conscious one that could probably be quite easily changed. It is a simple fact that the Kate Editor kpart can be embedded, in read-write mode, in other apps.


what are you referring to?

If you scroll down halfway (say) down a directory in Konqueror, then enter a sub-directory, then click back, then you are still scrolled halfway down when you return to the original directory.




hold on. in nautilus, when you click on the application, you fire up the relavent editor. in konqeror, when you click on an application, its read only. you have to right click to bring up the editor....exactly like nautilus is.

The behaviour is configurable - you can either preview the file in a read-only kpart, or Edit it in an editor. Since read-write kparts can be embedded in arbitrary apps, there is absolutely no technical reason why you shouldn't be able to embed a text editor in Konqueror - the devs have simply decided that you are more likely to View things in Konqueror, than Edit them.

[helpme]

hold on. in nautilus, when you click on the application, it fires up the relavent editor. in konqueror, when you click on the file, its read only. you have to right click and then select an appropriate aplication to open it with in order to edit it....nautilus also has that functionality, and it doesn't need any component technology such as kparts. note that when you click on a text file, it will bring up kate (ie an editor), but its still read only. thats what i'm referring to.
Jesus, so that really was it.
Just because the preview in konqueror was read only, you assumed that kparts in general were read only? And held on to that believe even when it was pointed out to you that kdevelop uses kparts for its editor and giving a reference to an ibm article contradicting you?
I'm at a loss of words.

P.S.: And as with every other mime type, you can tell konqueror not to open it embedded, but simply launch an editor right away.

P.P.S.: Even kate itself is only a frontend to the advanced text editor kpart, as is kedit (which is just a simpler frontend).

[ComplexNumber]

kparts are not inherently "read-only" i'm saying that they are in konqueror, which is what this thread is about - file managers. whether they are in other applications or contexts is of no consequence to this thread or the point that i'm making.



If you scroll down halfway (say) down a directory in Konqueror, then enter a sub-directory, then click back, then you are still scrolled halfway down when you return to the original directory.
i'm installing kde 3.5 on fedora core 5 at this very minute. you know me, i will gladly admit if i'm wrong. but i haven't seen any reference to this added functionality in konqueror since kde 3.4.2, and it defintiely wasn't present in that.




the devs have simply decided that you are more likely to View things in Konqueror, than Edit them voila! maybe i'm a rare breed that needs to edit files when using the file manager. one needs to view files to know if they need editing, and thats why nautilus is so much quicker for people who may need to edit a file.




I'm at a loss of words. if only...

[helpme]

i'm saying that they are in konqueror, which is what this thread is about - file managers. whether they are in other applications or contexts is of no consequence to this thread or the point that i'm making.

No you weren't, stop lying.



voila! maybe i'm a rare breed that needs to edit files when using the file manager. one needs to view files to know if they need editing, and thats why nautilus is so much quicker for people who may need to edit a file.

And as has been pointed out to you already several times, you can get konqueror to work the same way as nautilus (it's even the default to open an editor, at least on ubuntu).
Other than that, you can also choose to preview it inside konqueror, something you can't do in nautilus.
And just think about evince and kpdf and you'll maybe get the idea why kparts are a really good thing.

[ComplexNumber]

No you weren't, stop lying yes i was, i was talking about konqueror kparts.


helpme, GeneralZod
like i was saying.....konqueror in kde 3.5.1-2.3 (one thats installed in fedora core 5) DOES NOT have any spatial sense like nautilus does. try this for yourself:

in the /usr/share/theme directory, open any directory near the middle.

press the "Up" button.

notice that you go back back to the start of the directory.







and helpme, do yourself a favour and give it a rest, please. you're boring me senseless.

[aysiu]

like i was saying.....konqueror in kde 3.5.1-2.3 (one thats installed in fedora core 5) DOES NOT have any spatial sense like nautilus does. try this for yourself:

in the /usr/share/theme directory, open any directory near the middle.

press the "Up" button.

notice that you go back back to the start of the directory. What about if you press the "Back" button? Is the behavior different?

[helpme]

helpme, GeneralZod[/B]
like i was saying.....konqueror in kde 3.5.1-2.3 (one thats installed in fedora core 5) DOES NOT have any spatial sense like nautilus does. try this for yourself:

in the /usr/share/theme directory, open any directory near the middle.

press the "Up" button.

notice that you go back back to the start of the directory.

How about doing the only sensible thing and press the back button? After all, you want to go back where you started from.
Sweet Jesues, how dumb can you get...

[helpme]

What about if you press the "Back" button? Is the behavior different?
Yes, of course it is, as it should be and as it makes sense.

[ComplexNumber]

What about if you press the "Back" button? Is the behavior different? i've just tried that now. when i press the "back" button, it always goes back to the same place no matter which directory i opened. if i open "clearlooks", then go "back", it goes to a position that begins at "t-ish-black". if i open "lila", then go "back", it still goes back to where the directory "t-ish-black" is at the top left.


thats not demonstrating hving a spatial sense. whether i press "back" or "up" in nautilus, it ALWAYS goes back to the page where the directory that i've just opened is shown. thats what spatial browsing is.

[GeneralZod]

helpme, GeneralZod
like i was saying.....konqueror in kde 3.5.1-2.3 (one thats installed in fedora core 5) DOES NOT have any spatial sense like nautilus does. try this for yourself:

in the /usr/share/theme directory, open any directory near the middle.

press the "Up" button.

notice that you go back back to the start of the directory.


Aha - Ok, confirmed here if you press "Up". If you press "Back", however, it works as nautilus would, so saying it "DOES NOT have any spatial sense like nautilus does" isn't really correct, in my opinion. To be honest, it never even occured to be to press "Up" to get "Back" to the directory I was just in, which is why I never noticed the phenomenon you were describing :)






and helpme, do yourself a favour and give it a rest, please. you're boring me senseless.[/QUOTE]

[ComplexNumber]

If you press "Back", however, it works as nautilus would no it doesn't ;). i've just tried that. it doesn't have any spatial browsing capability because it always goes "back" or "up" to the same place. try it with different directories in varying positions (eg near the start, but not at the start. near the middle. near the end)

[aysiu]

What's the point of arguing about this?

[GeneralZod]

no it doesn't ;). i've just tried that. it doesn't have any spatial browsing capability because it always goes "back" or "up" to the same place. try it with different directories in varying positions (eg near the start, but not at the start. near the middle. near the end)

I'm not following you - I just did precisely that, as I reported on the previous page (or maybe even the page before that - this has dragged on for ages! ;)). When I clicked back, I ended up at the exact vertical scroll position I was at before I entered the subdirectory, which I thought is what you said wouldn't happen.

[helpme]

thats not demonstrating hving a spatial sense. whether i press "back" or "up" in nautilus, it ALWAYS goes back to the page where the directory that i've just opened is shown. thats what spatial browsing is.
LOL, no, that's certainly not what spatial browsing is.
http://arstechnica.com/articles/paedia/finder.ars/2
http://mail.gnome.org/archives/nautilus-list/2002-September/msg00093.html

P.S.: Constantly changing your tune becaue you one again have been proven wrong makes you look pretty, ehm, silly.

[ComplexNumber]

What's the point of arguing about this? ask helpme. it seems like the only reason why he makes a contribution is for the sole point of disagreeing with someone. its really starting to get tedious!

[psychicdragon]

I agree with aysiu here, it's not worth arguing whether Konqueror is spatial enough. Most users hate the feature anyway.

[helpme]

ask helpme. it seems like the only reason why he makes a contribution is for the sole point of disagreeing with someone. its really starting to get tedious!
Let's see.
I started to participate in this thread because I saw several claims that I knew were simply wrong.
1. Kparts being readonly. Wrong!
2. The fact that the preview!!!!! of text files in konqueror is readonly showing that kparts are useless. Wrong again, as a preview is something that for example nautilus does not offer and I've yet to see someone who can show me why previewing a pdf, or doc file should be considered useless.
3. Konqueror doesn't have spatial awareness. That is, if you go back, you'll end up at the start of a directory, not at the place in the directory you came from. Wrong again.

So excuse me that I dared to point out that all your points were simply wrong. If pointing this out is posting simply to disagree with someone to you, well, then this says more about you then it does about my posts.

[ComplexNumber]

helpme
i'm not wasting any more time on you, so save your typing skills and go and troll somewhere else.


When I clicked back, I ended up at the exact vertical scroll position I was at before I entered the subdirectory, which I thought is what you said wouldn't happen. try icon view.

[GeneralZod]

try icon view.

*sigh* - why couldn't you have said this in your first post and spared us all of this wrangling? :) Confirmed with Icon View. Interestingly, you can see it go back to the original vertical position briefly immediately after you press "Back", so this looks like is a genuine bug.

[KiwiNZ]

Play nice here or I will find my big box of locks and put on my size 14 boots[-X

[aysiu]

Play nice here or I will find my big box of locks and put on my size 14 boots[-X I have a better idea. You could always just cut out the offending posts and move them to the Backyard or Jail. Why ruin an otherwise light-hearted thread?

[ComplexNumber]

KiwiNZ
sorry.

GeneralZod
it is true that when you select tree view, it does show a spatial sense when using the "back" button because i have just confirmed that. but not with icon view.

[helpme]

GeneralZod
it is true that when you select tree view, it does show a spatial sense when using the "back" button because i have just confirmed that. but not with icon view.
It also does with icon view, at least here it does.

[GeneralZod]

It also does with icon view, at least here it does.

That's interesting - what version of KDE are you using? I can tell that the devs intended for this behaviour to carry over to the Icon View by the fact that when you click Back, it briefly flicks back to your original position, and then appears to change its mind and scroll back to the very top. If your KDE version is less than mine, I'll file a bug tomorrow and send you the link to the bug report to confirm - the KDE version will help pinpoint the regression.

Edit: VVV

That's a good plan - I'm about to go to bed now, but I'll post in the Dapper forums tomorrow.

[helpme]

That's interesting - what version of KDE are you using? I can tell that the devs intended for this behaviour to carry over to the Icon View by the fact that when you click Back, it briefly flicks back to your original position, and then appears to change its mind and scroll back to the very top. If your KDE version is less than mine, I'll file a bug tomorrow and send you the link to the bug report to confirm - the KDE version will help pinpoint the regression.
I'm using the latest dapper version of konqueror (4:3.5.2-0ubuntu19). I'm not actually running KDE on the computer I tested this on, but Gnome, though I don't think that should make a difference.
The only thing that comes to mind is that I'm starting konqueror with konqueror --profile filemanagement. I think that's also the default profile kubuntu uses, but I'm not entirely sure.
Also, this is a ppc machine, so maybe it's a i386 bug only.

Anyway, I think you should definately file a bug on this and maybe ask in the dapper forum beforehand if others are also seeing this behavior.

[ComplexNumber]

GeneralZod
well, you know mine (ie kde 3.5.1-2.3) because i stated it earlier. konqueror is version 3.5.1-5.



...scroll back to the very top i've just made another observation. in /usr/share/themes, it alwyas goes back to where "i-ish-black" is in the top left. but when i try the same thing in /use/share/icons, it always behaves as yours does - ie it always goes back to the top. weird. i don't know why it should do that.

[awakatanka]

Damn a few pages of discussion because again complexnumber isn't clear in what he try to say. Next time think a bit longer and write it a bit clearer what you want to say. So it doesn't cause a few pages of discussions.

Everytime he adjust his story a little to get his right but at the end its just unclear statments our just wrong info because of his unclear begin post.

Nautilus is gnome based so i use it under gnome and konqueror is kde based and use it under kde. But i love konqueror because the extra's it can do.

[ComplexNumber]

Damn a few pages of discussion because again complexnumber isn't clear in what he try to say. Next time think a bit longer and write it a bit clearer what you want to say. So it doesn't cause a few pages of discussions. the onus is not on me, but on others to ASK ME to clarify if any parts are unclear.



Everytime he adjust his story a little to get his right but at the end its just unclear statments our just wrong info because of his unclear begin post. show me where exactly i've 'adjusted' my story :confused:. i've said the same all the way through. best to get your facts straight before sprouting your usual rubbish. now run along and play.





anyway, i've now completely uninstalled KDE because it was just wasting space on my hard drive.