Apple Now Requires App Store Users to Reveal their Precise Location

[wewantutopia]

So now when you're downloading the programs you're allowed to you have to tell Apple where you are... nice. *eye roll*


http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/technology/2010/06/apple-location-privacy-iphone-ipad.html

[Breambutt]

Expect a lot of "anonymous" tips *coughstevejobscough* to some unofficial law enforcement agencies who beat the poo out of you to resolve issues.

What am I saying, Appleans don't use illegal software.

[McRat]

Man, it would nice if a demented practical joker could hack the phone so you can put in your own geo data.

"Hmmm... How can we have 132,411 users in Antarctica? Guess we better set up an Apple Store, proto!"

[Tristam Green]

Man, it would nice if a demented practical joker could hack the phone so you can put in your own geo data.

"Hmmm... How can we have 132,411 users in Antarctica? Guess we better set up an Apple Store, proto!"

lol, that's actually the first thing I thought of when reading this -- automatic demographics generation so Apple can detect where best to expand Apple Store locations.

[McRat]

"Sorry, the only store with any iPad's in stock is #2022."

"Where is that?"

"Let's see... Death Valley, they have 237 of them."

[Dragonbite]

It looks more for their iAd advertisement product.

Now you can only use their selected OSs (iTunes only runs on Windows and Macs, no other program or platform will work for updates and installing apps), programs can only be developed in selected languages (C, C++, and Objective-C, other languages which worked fine are suddenly and without any option, no longer viable) and now they require you to accept that they are allowed to track where you are?

All for the sake of "the experience"? :twisted:

I guess their success shows that most people are sheep. Do you "bhaaa"?

[sydbat]

It looks more for their iAd advertisement product.

Now you can only use their selected OSs (iTunes only runs on Windows and Macs, no other program or platform will work for updates and installing apps), programs can only be developed in selected languages (C, C++, and Objective-C, other languages which worked fine are suddenly and without any option, no longer viable) and now they require you to accept that they are allowed to track where you are?

All for the sake of "the experience"? :twisted:

I guess their success shows that most people like Kool-aid (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drinking_the_Kool-Aid)™. Do you "Oh Yeaahh"?There, fixed it for you.

[dragos240]

Yet another reason to boycott apple products.

[Dragonbite]

Actually, after reading and thinking about it, some geo-location is essential for such things as Maps and finding local businesses


User: I want a map to main street from here
Phone: where are you?
User: I'm not going to tell!

As a comment even listed, Google's Android uses the Geo-location.

Now, for requiring it for apps and such, what does it matter where you are located?

There is supposed to be a way to opt out of the iAds for OS 4 (which itself is shackled with freedom limitations) at this link : https://oo.apple.com/ (https://oo.apple.com/)

[BslBryan]

Yes, it does make sense. I suppose it really depends on what they're using the information for.

[piousp]

I guess their success shows that most people are sheep. Do you "bhaaa"?

I like this better than the "kool-aid" fix :twisted:

[McRat]

OK, you can go to oo.apple.com to Opt Out of the geo-directed ads, but that doesn't turn off iAds. It just makes them non-localized.

I think Apple is making a serious miss-judgement of popular opinion. I guess we will see.

Since AT&T is a "limited bandwidth" plan, making people pay for the advertisements isn't going to be well received. Especially when their speeds are often poor to begin with.

[Groucho Marxist]

Great; after charging users nearly twice the amount they should pay for a laptop or desktop, Apple is subsidizing mobile devices for revenue generation.

The integration of advertising into the very operating system the end user employs is despicable. iAds are beyond iNnoying; they are marketing run rampant.

[Dragonbite]

The real purpose of Apple's forced geo-location:



http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/geoip.png


Nowhere is safe anymore!

[McRat]

From the Apple TOS:


... Apple and its partners use cookies and other technologies in mobile advertising services to control the number of times you see a given ad, deliver ads that relate to your interests, and measure the effectiveness of ad campaigns. If you do not want to receive ads with this level of relevance on your mobile device, you can opt out by accessing the following link on your device: »oo.apple.com. If you opt out, you will continue to receive the same number of mobile ads, but they may be less relevant because they will not be based on your interests. ...

[McRat]

The real purpose of Apple's forced geo-location:



http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/geoip.png


Nowhere is safe anymore!


:lolflag:

And if you Opt Out, you'll get them from Saturn and Uranus instead...

[Dragonbite]

:lolflag:

And if you Opt Out, you'll get them from Saturn and Uranus instead...

I pull enough ideas out of my butt already, I don't need ads too! ;)

[KiwiNZ]

All cell phones when turned on know your location .

[McRat]

While there are some features I'd like to get from OS4, I'm not going to update. I would not have bought a phone that would reduce my allowed bandwidth with advertising messages. If they try to force me, I'll just throw the phone in the junk drawer and get another brand.

I really like my iPhone, but I'm not In Love.

[Dragonbite]

I'm going to wait for Verizon to change their data plan similar to AT&T and if it drops the initial pricing low enough (like to $15/mo for 200MB) then I may go for an Android, but I have never been too keen on the iPhone.

In part because I don't want to be tethered to a Windows machine again.

[zekopeko]

While there are some features I'd like to get from OS4, I'm not going to update. I would not have bought a phone that would reduce my allowed bandwidth with advertising messages. If they try to force me, I'll just throw the phone in the junk drawer and get another brand.

I really like my iPhone, but I'm not In Love.

Placement of ads inside applications is up to developers, not Apple. You can simply use applications that don't have ads.

[zekopeko]

So now when you're downloading the programs you're allowed to you have to tell Apple where you are... nice. *eye roll*

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/technology/2010/06/apple-location-privacy-iphone-ipad.html

You people do understand that everytime you google/yahoo/bing you are giving your IP address to them and that they can track you with it? Not to mention cookies.

This whole thing is overblown. Android does it and every other website you visit. When iOS applications ask for your location you get asked if you want to share it.

[doorknob60]

Man, it would nice if a demented practical joker could hack the phone so you can put in your own geo data.

"Hmmm... How can we have 132,411 users in Antarctica? Guess we better set up an Apple Store, proto!"

There's an app for that (if it's jailbroken). http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=836310 It works pretty well too too, great for getting around NBA League Pass Blackouts :P

[KiwiNZ]

Many things track you

Your Cell phone
Your Atm Card
Your Credit Card
Your Airline Lounge Card
Your Cable/Satellite TV Receiver
The 1234554665756563535663774849 cameras
Road safety cameras
Your Work swipe Card

The microchip inserted at birth

[McRat]

Placement of ads inside applications is up to developers, not Apple. You can simply use applications that don't have ads.

Are you sure? How could you have geo-located ads without downloading them? A huge library of ads that stays in the phone?

I guess we will see. Hopefully the Desktop Computer industry doesn't get wind of the this. Or TV mfr's. Or car makers.

Turn on your car radio, the Nav systems feeds info to a wireless connection, and you get extra commercials in the car.

This is a really bad road to go down. I can't see any good coming from it. The iPhone is expensive, and the service is expensive, and now they want to flood it with pop up ads?

[McRat]

Here's the moral issue:

You cannot go onto somebodies property and put up advertising. You cannot put stickers on their car.

You purchased your phone, just like your computer and TV.

The MFR shouldn't put advertising on products AFTER you purchased them. If they put it on before? Gray area.

If Ubuntu had advertising on it? Acceptable. It is not my property.

[KiwiNZ]

Here's the moral issue:

You cannot go onto somebodies property and put up advertising. You cannot put stickers on their car.

You purchased your phone, just like your computer and TV.

The MFR shouldn't put advertising on products AFTER you purchased them. If they put it on before? Gray area.

If Ubuntu had advertising on it? Acceptable. It is not my property.

They put Ads on your TV after you buy it :p

[SoFl W]

Every cell phone tracks you, the GPS tracking was put in for "your safety" in case you dialed 911.
Your credit cards track you.
Those cameras put up for "your safety" to stop people going through red lights and to watch criminals track you.
Those little discount cards you get at stores track you.
Your EZpass tracks your movements.
The tire pressure indicators in new cars have FRID chips in them.
A lot of software (including linux) sends usage based information back to its creators.
There are phone aps that allow your friends to find you by your GPS location.
Every search engine tracks your searches.
Google mines all your data you send through them. Google has javascript that is white listed with noscript on almost every web page. (but don't worry Google can't be evil, they said so)
The Internet tracks you.

EVERYTHING tracks you.

[McRat]

They put Ads on your TV after you buy it :p

Samsung doesn't. ):P

So far, companies haven't taken that last step very often, if at all.

It always amazed me that Microsoft never did it. It was such great opportunity to make a bazillion bucks quickly.

Is it a Gentleman's Agreement? If so, Steve Jobs is about to be the first to break it.

[Dragonbite]

Are you sure? How could you have geo-located ads without downloading them? A huge library of ads that stays in the phone?

I guess we will see. Hopefully the Desktop Computer industry doesn't get wind of the this. Or TV mfr's. Or car makers.

Turn on your car radio, the Nav systems feeds info to a wireless connection, and you get extra commercials in the car.

This is a really bad road to go down. I can't see any good coming from it. The iPhone is expensive, and the service is expensive, and now they want to flood it with pop up ads?


Samsung doesn't. ):P

So far, companies haven't taken that last step very often, if at all.

It always amazed me that Microsoft never did it. It was such great opportunity to make a bazillion bucks quickly.

Is it a Gentleman's Agreement? If so, Steve Jobs is about to be the first to break it.

I would not be too afraid of it, because the marketplace will apply some sort of correction in the form of competition.

Like, for example, if the ads are annoying, people will leave it for some alternative such as Android, WebOS or Windows 7 Mobile. Now if all of them start pushing ads, then the first one to back off, or make it less obtrusive or the next new wave that comes out without ads would suddenly find an angle that increases their business, decreases the ad-toting companies and pretty soon all of them would start removing or reducing the ads for fear of loosing their customers.

Opera ran ads for a while, now they don't. I think their adoption rate has increased since then.

Competition is good, and it is what will keep dumb ideas like this in some sort of check. Of course Apple has a more tyrannical setting where they can get away and abuse their fanbase much further than other companies may be able to get away with and keep their customers, but there is still that limit.

[Tristam Green]

Yet another reason to boycott apple products.

I'm sure their bottom line weeps.

@Dragonbite: McRat was so nice, you quoted him twice? :D

[KiwiNZ]

Samsung doesn't. ):P

So far, companies haven't taken that last step very often, if at all.

It always amazed me that Microsoft never did it. It was such great opportunity to make a bazillion bucks quickly.

Is it a Gentleman's Agreement? If so, Steve Jobs is about to be the first to break it.

I was talking tongue in check about TV commercials :p


But seriously I thinks wait and see. I am sure its a case of "OMG the Apple Manz is spying on me and going to flood the iphonz with adz media hysteria" Anything for a story , bugger the real background research , that just isn't done anymore in the media.

[zekopeko]

Are you sure? How could you have geo-located ads without downloading them? A huge library of ads that stays in the phone?

I guess we will see. Hopefully the Desktop Computer industry doesn't get wind of the this. Or TV mfr's. Or car makers.

Turn on your car radio, the Nav systems feeds info to a wireless connection, and you get extra commercials in the car.

This is a really bad road to go down. I can't see any good coming from it. The iPhone is expensive, and the service is expensive, and now they want to flood it with pop up ads?

And how does Google do it? Or any other website that serves ads? They don't load them on your computer. They are downloaded in the background and then displayed. Probably cached in the case of iAds. So traffic is going to be minimal. Or not even taken into account (that would be the fairer option).

The iPhone also isn't expensive considering what it offers. On the service front, well you can thank the US Government and what passes for "free market" in the USA.

[CharlesA]

Do I get to mention that California is going to try to get your car's license plate to display an advert if it's stopped for more than 4 seconds (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/06/21/tech/main6603447.shtml)?

[McRat]

Do I get to mention that California is going to try to get your car's license plate to display an advert if it's stopped for more than 4 seconds (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/06/21/tech/main6603447.shtml)?

Lovely. :mad:

They tried to ban black cars, add taxes for electric cars (no gas taxes), and make it illegal to run custom wheels and tires.

They are truly working hard to make us all of the laughing stock of Western Civilization.
:lolflag:

[McRat]

And how does Google do it? Or any other website that serves ads? They don't load them on your computer. They are downloaded in the background and then displayed. Probably cached in the case of iAds. So traffic is going to be minimal. Or not even taken into account (that would be the fairer option).

The iPhone also isn't expensive considering what it offers. On the service front, well you can thank the US Government and what passes for "free market" in the USA.

Google does it just like most all advertisers do: The put up ads on their property, or pay the property owner for lease time.

No, AT&T even charges you for bandwidth if you use your wireless access at home if you have one of their hotspots. http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/ATT-Tries-Fails-To-Justify-3G-CapEating-Microcell-108967
They also charge you for whatever they are transmitting at 2-3am on the iPhones. Some people have reported up to 60mb usage in the middle of the night, and AT&T acknowledges that it's them, and that it's part of your bandwidth. They claim it's "billing info".

The "expensive" point is: It's not subsidized by advertising. Apple makes a profit on each unit when delivered. Some products are subsidized or free in exchange for advertising, like radio or broadcast TV entertainment.

Like I said, we will see when the program goes active, and what it's like 10 years from now. It's brown, it's smells bad, and it appears to be have passed out a small orifice. It could be a candy bar, but I'm just going to wait until someone else takes a bite.

[Letrazzrot]

Interestingly, I just read this following snippet from an unrelated article



...In that case, the Obama administration has argued that warrantless tracking is permitted because Americans enjoy no "reasonable expectation of privacy" in their--or at least their cell phones'--whereabouts. U.S. Department of Justice lawyers say that "a customer's Fourth Amendment rights are not violated when the phone company reveals to the government its own records" that show where a mobile device placed and received calls. The original article (to put it in context) is found here: http://news.cnet.com/8301-31921_3-20008444-281.html

It seems that it is unclear (in a legal sense, in the US) whether revealing location is considered a privacy concern.

[zekopeko]

Google does it just like most all advertisers do: The put up ads on their property, or pay the property owner for lease time.

I was referring to the whole privacy thing. My point was that advertiser are already getting your location and surfing habits by using cookie and IP addresses.


No, AT&T even charges you for bandwidth if you use your wireless access at home if you have one of their hotspots. http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/ATT-Tries-Fails-To-Justify-3G-CapEating-Microcell-108967
They also charge you for whatever they are transmitting at 2-3am on the iPhones. Some people have reported up to 60mb usage in the middle of the night, and AT&T acknowledges that it's them, and that it's part of your bandwidth. They claim it's "billing info".

This is AT&T. Not Apple.


The "expensive" point is: It's not subsidized by advertising. Apple makes a profit on each unit when delivered. Some products are subsidized or free in exchange for advertising, like radio or broadcast TV entertainment.

You still don't get it. iAds are going to be part of applications not the OS.
App developers choose if they want them inside their applications not Apple. So applications are subsidized not the phone.
The phone (as in hardware) is subsidized by AT&T already.

[Dustin2128]

Do I get to mention that California is going to try to get your car's license plate to display an advert if it's stopped for more than 4 seconds (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/06/21/tech/main6603447.shtml)?

I can see it now; about to run a red light? No problem, just set your license plate to that of your Mother-in-law! Seriously...#-o
Also try to get off the political end of it- you might get this thread closed..

[McRat]

...
This is AT&T. Not Apple.



You still don't get it. iAds are going to be part of applications not the OS.
App developers choose if they want them inside their applications not Apple. So applications are subsidized not the phone.
The phone (as in hardware) is subsidized by AT&T already.

For consumers in NA, Apple and AT&T are partners with the iPhone. It's like saying if your car handles like poop, it's not Ford's fault, it's Firestones. Well, except you can switch tires after you buy.

Yes, I do "get it". You are thinking that Apple doesn't put apps on their phones pre-packaged. That's just not true.

I really don't use many non-Apple apps anyhow: Network Analyzer (great), Periodic Table, Pocket Dynometer, Tethering. That's about it. You're implying that the iAds won't appear on my phone then.

I'm skeptical. Their TOS says nothing that limits Apple from putting ads on your phone that you cannot turn off. In fact, it says the opposite.

[Giant Speck]

http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn12/Evilpens/its-a-conspiracy.jpg

[SoFl W]

Are you sure? How could you have geo-located ads without downloading them? A huge library of ads that stays in the phone?

I guess we will see. Hopefully the Desktop Computer industry doesn't get wind of the this. Or TV mfr's. Or car makers.

Turn on your car radio, the Nav systems feeds info to a wireless connection, and you get extra commercials in the car.

This is a really bad road to go down. I can't see any good coming from it. The iPhone is expensive, and the service is expensive, and now they want to flood it with pop up ads??

Your post got me thinking about something. Having worked for a cable company I can tell you that advertisements can be sent to specific neighborhoods or locations. The ads your friend across town sees during a show might not be the same as the ones you are seeing. The cable company/advertisers can target the local ad for Joe's pizza for the area Joe's pizza serves, they can also target national ads to a specific demographic for the neighborhood.

[zekopeko]

Yes, I do "get it". You are thinking that Apple doesn't put apps on their phones pre-packaged. That's just not true.

/facepalm

You still don't get it. iAds are for application developers that aren't Apple. Apple isn't going to put ads inside their own applications.


I really don't use many non-Apple apps anyhow: Network Analyzer (great), Periodic Table, Pocket Dynometer, Tethering. That's about it. You're implying that the iAds won't appear on my phone then.

I imply that they won't appear in 3rd party applications unless their developers put them there.


I'm skeptical. Their TOS says nothing that limits Apple from putting ads on your phone that you cannot turn off. In fact, it says the opposite.

How many products do you know where you have an option in the TOS not to be harassed by ads?

[McRat]

/facepalm

You still don't get it. iAds are for application developers that aren't Apple. Apple isn't going to put ads inside their own applications.



I imply that they won't appear in 3rd party applications unless their developers put them there.



How many products do you know where you have an option in the TOS not to be harassed by ads?

That would almost be believable if Apple did not ship their 3Gs phones with a Nike ad from the factory. If you have an iPhone you'll see it. AFAIK you can't delete it.

It was the "feeler" to check and see the public response.

Guess we will see.