Kubuntu rant

[Screwdriver0815]

Hi,

the new "release year" which brought up 10.04, the Lucid Lynx to us was something like a new start for me in my "career" as user of Linux operating systems.
Previously I had Jaunty Jackalope and Karmic Koala (in both clothes, Gnome and KDE) running on my computers.
As I moved to the US I still have my Laptop (a new desktop is still to be bought). On this Laptop I had Kubuntu Karmic installed, which had an epic crash with a system update to KDE 4.4.1 via the KDE-Launchpad ppa. Okay, thats not so tragic and it was also not the fault of the system. Anyway, I had a USB stick with the Gnome version of 9.10 lying around - I just installed it and was happy.

Then Lucid came out and I gave it a shot. In general it is okay, but I wanted KDE again. So I just installed Kubuntu 10.4.
The result is somehow really disappointing. I mean Kubuntu Jaunty and Kubuntu Karmic were really fine and nice OS'es, but Kubuntu Lucid... no, it isn't in my eyes. Here is why:

- Kubuntu seems like that it has huge problems with the Akonadi Server which steers the addressbook and other features of Kontact. I had trouble too, like thousands of other users and thought, with the big userbase and therefore a big pool of knowledge, this issue can be fixed. Nope. The forums are full of questions about this and all trials to fix this work sometimes, but mostly not.

Why does Kubuntu deliver this, in this state = set up so poorly?

- Kubuntu 10.4 has a problem with some memory leaks. I don't know if this was just my special case, but I never had such a big usage of CPU power and memory during idle in an (K)Ubuntu system before. The HDD worked even at system idle!

- Kubuntu 10.4 is much less stable than for example 9.04 or 9.10. Everytime you try to do some work in it, the current application crashes. Maybe its just my special case? Don't know, but it is disappointing.

- Kubuntu 10.4 has a poor localisation. This is also my fault, I guess, as I am member of the german translators. But I tried to translate as much as possible. It was a huge effort to do that - much more than at Ubuntu itself. Why? Because the english texts of Kubuntu are formulated so difficult and complicated, with involved periods, things which will be repeated over and over, sometimes in the same words, sometimes in different wording... Kubuntu is a horrible system to translate. I already filed a bug report on that and the Kubuntu guys promised to do something better. But until then... it is still bad. Bad to translate, and therefore translated badly.

So now... I want KDE. And I want a nice system. Guess what I did... I switched. To Sabayon.
This is an italian distro, based on Gentoo. The localisation of all parts of the system, the average user will see, is perfect. Why? because KDE itself is perfectly localised and it looks like that at Sabayon nobody fiddles around with the localisation files of KDE, like (K)Ubuntu does with Launchpad.
The localisation of the special Sabayon parts of the system is also not so good. But at least it is there. And I did not find any messages where the first sentence is (in my case) german and the second is english, like it was in Kubuntu. Either everything is german or everything is english. Consistent.

Sabayon doesn't have problems with the Akonadi Server. It just works. And it is stable – much more stable than Kubuntu. And it is easy too. Everything important is in the repos. Skype, Google Earth... graphics drivers...

Sitting in front of my Sabayon system, I found that I have fun with KDE again. This fun went away, as I had to do with Kubuntu 10.4. This makes me sad. Because I always was an Ubuntu guy. Of course I have tried other distros in the past, but I still was somehow connected to Ubuntu or Kubuntu. With Ubuntu and Kubuntu I learned Linux. But when I look back, then there was Hardy Heron, which was a nice system. Intrepid Ibex which was even better. Jaunty, which brought some stupid „features“, but it brought also significant improvements... Karmic, which was something like a small stagnation, but which was still okay... and now Lucid. Disappointing.
Is it maybe because all the systems before were better than the previous ones, that one now is disappointed because Lucid is not soo much better than the previous versions? Or is it just because Lucid is worse?
I never had so many crashes in a Linux system as in Lucid. Was it just bad luck?

I don't know... anyway, I will stay as a member of the Ubuntu community, but I will use another system for now. Maybe I'll try Kubuntu Maverick again... hopefully not being disappointed again.

Thanks for reading this rant.

[wilee-nilee]

I didn't read it, to long, sorry.;) Personally I don't like KDE anyway.

[del_diablo]

Thats not news, ubuntu is quite good at messing up stuff and not bothering to get upstreamed patches.

[cespinal]

I read it :D

i really cant say im in the same boat as you... i also upgraded to lucid and despite the whole thing feels slower, the plasma desktop is way more stable.
I also had some serious frustations with the nvidia kernel modules and the broadcom module getting misconfigured without me doing anything...I also though on abandoning the ship and getting back to Gnome.

but guess what? I love KDE, but I have always seen other distros a some sort of uncharted territory im dont have the courage to explore.

[BrokenKingpin]

I tried the last release of Kubuntu and found it not very stable. I prefer Gnome anyways, so I just stick with Ubuntu.

Sabayon is a very nice KDE distro.

[betrunkenaffe]

I liked Sabayon and if I go back to KDE ever, I'll probably just reinstall Sabayon. That being said, haven't felt the urge to swap DEs or fiddle in over a month (although questioning if I want to try to install newest nvidia drivers)

[sf-it-services]

akonadi is shite, I am using KDE, I removed all PIM and search software..... too much like migrating to windows functionality


KDE-core is the way to go with x11, then DIY

if you have issues do not use a predefined installation which....like windows...comes with a payload

[kaldor]

That's Kubuntu for you. I could never use it. Try openSUSE.

[Screwdriver0815]

I read it :D

i really cant say im in the same boat as you... i also upgraded to lucid and despite the whole thing feels slower, the plasma desktop is way more stable.
I also had some serious frustations with the nvidia kernel modules and the broadcom module getting misconfigured without me doing anything...I also though on abandoning the ship and getting back to Gnome.

but guess what? I love KDE, but I have always seen other distros a some sort of uncharted territory im dont have the courage to explore.

thanks for reading! ;)

the same goes with me. I also have seen other distros as some kind of strange territory. But I couldn't stand it anymore. Because: everywhere you hear and read that KDE is now way more stable than in the early days of KDE 4, but in Kubuntu I always saw the crashhandler popping up. A friend of me has OpenSuse and he never has any issues with crashes... So I realised that KDE itself is not that unstable. Its the system. Or the implementation of KDE.
Although Jaunty and Karmic were kind of stable, at least more stable than Lucid. But maybe I just had bad luck... I really don't know.


akonadi is shite, I am using KDE, I removed all PIM and search software..... too much like migrating to windows functionality


KDE-core is the way to go with x11, then DIY

if you have issues do not use a predefined installation which....like windows...comes with a payload
No Akonadi is not ***** in general. I think it is just implemented in a bad way in Kubuntu. The Kubuntu guys do things, nearly nobody needs, like their Ayatana stuff (system messages like notify-osd), although KDE already has a perfect system for all kinds of messages... but the really important things, which directly influence the user experience are being neglected. I actually want to use Kontact, Kmail and all that stuff, because it is part of the KDE software compilation. And because they are amazing software. I want (for example) to be notified about tasks, even when Kontact is not running. This is only possible if it works in a proper way. And it does not work in Kubuntu. Thats a pitty, a missed opportunity.
Kubuntu says itself that they want to be the distro with the best KDE-Implementation. Is this a joke? Now I think: yes, it must be a joke.


That's Kubuntu for you. I could never use it. Try openSUSE.

I already tried it. But I don't know... it just isn't my piece of cake. I don't know why. As I wrote, a friend of me has it on his computer and it is a really really good system, but it is nothing for me.
Maybe I'll give it another shot when the new version comes out.

I mean, of course it is matter of taste, if one uses KDE or Gnome (I can use both and I do not "hate" one of them). So if Kubuntu actually was a good system, KDE would have a better reputation among Ubuntu users. What's wrong with that?

[WinterRain]

Kubuntu says itself that they want to be the distro with the best KDE-Implementation. Is this a joke? Now I think: yes, it must be a joke.


I think kde in gemeral is a joke. Every implementation of it I have tried is buggier than the alpha version of Windows Millenium . Every other DE works perfect. Oh well.

[darkadept]

I think kde in gemeral is a joke. Every implementation of it I have tried is buggier than the alpha version of Windows Millenium . Every other DE works perfect. Oh well.

Flamebait eh? I'll bite, nicely.

I use Kubuntu 10.04 and I have been using KDE for years. It is a perfectly capable DE. Transitions are tough for any project and the switch to Qt4 was a huge one. But as a developer I do have to say the architecture for KDE4 is beautiful if not 100% realized in implementation... yet. I don't use Gnome so I can't speak to that it all.

To all open source developers: keep up the good work and don't listen to whiners! :p

[WinterRain]

Flamebait eh? I'll bite, nicely.



OK, I apologize for hammering kde, But I feel it's still behind the 8-ball in a few ways. I just couldn't see myself installing kde for anyone, as it will probably break or be broken to begin with. If I'm going to use kde, I'll use the latest vector linux which still uses kde 3.5.10. It's a very solid release.

I'm really hoping kde keeps improving, and want it to succeed, but so far I can live without it. Perhaps right before kde 5 comes out, 4 will be near perfect.

[neoargon]

I too am affected by the memory leak . At the start , it uses only about 300 mb . But after some time it raises to about 700 mb . Then the memory decreases but the swap file raises to 300mb .
The whole system becomes horribly slow .
The same problem exists in the new beta of 4.5 too . I don't know whether it is an upstream problem .
KUbuntu people says that KUbuntu is the distribution with default kde settings . Gnome with default settings is really horrific . So the problems can be upstream kde's .
Iam really attached to Ubuntu, it's package management system, it's community etc . So I didn't switch distro . Instead switched to Gnome . I think I like Gnome . I didn't like Gnome earlier . The Gnome in Ubuntu is really awesome .

[neoargon]

Kde is technologically superior to Gnome . But Gnome(in Ubuntu) is superior to kde in the terms of user experience .

[NightwishFan]

Does the plasma bug where the widgets reset every time they are resized still occur?

[neoargon]

Does the plasma bug where the widgets reset every time they are resized still occur?

No . A lot of the bugs are now closed

[coutts99]

I get none of the problems above on Kubuntu Lucid

[TheNessus]

Does the plasma bug where the widgets reset every time they are resized still occur?

that bug can be fixed by deleting .kde and then it won't happen again.

And I don't use Kubuntu anymore. In ubuntu I either use gnome or lxde.

For KDE I now use openSUSE. Great implementation, no memory leaks at all, it never goes above 350mb or so, with essentials on like music and browser.

[seenthelite]

I noticed on this forum the comparisons between Gnome and KDE come up quite a lot so when 10.04 was released I installed both, Ubuntu and Kubuntu on the same computer and started using both. I have found both perform well on my Dell Laptop. But I am tending to favour Kubuntu. Maybe some of the problems people have are actually hardware specific.

(Kubuntu, Amorok and Browser 358.2 GiB Swap 0 GiB)

[DeadSuperHero]

I had the same problem with Kubuntu for quite a while. It would slow down to the point that it broke compositing. For the longest time, I was convinced that my computer simply wasn't fast enough to run KDE.

Then I switched to Fedora's KDE spin, and have fallen in love with it.

[clanky]

I had the same problem with Kubuntu for quite a while. It would slow down to the point that it broke compositing. For the longest time, I was convinced that my computer simply wasn't fast enough to run KDE.

Then I switched to Fedora's KDE spin, and have fallen in love with it.

I like Fedora's KDE implementation, although I have heard quite a few people who don't. In general I prefer KDE to Gnome, but different distros have different implementations, I guess it all comes down to what does the things you want to do, does them well and does them on your hardware.

[Screwdriver0815]

I too am affected by the memory leak . At the start , it uses only about 300 mb . But after some time it raises to about 700 mb . Then the memory decreases but the swap file raises to 300mb .
The whole system becomes horribly slow .
The same problem exists in the new beta of 4.5 too . I don't know whether it is an upstream problem .
KUbuntu people says that KUbuntu is the distribution with default kde settings . Gnome with default settings is really horrific . So the problems can be upstream kde's .
Iam really attached to Ubuntu, it's package management system, it's community etc . So I didn't switch distro . Instead switched to Gnome . I think I like Gnome . I didn't like Gnome earlier . The Gnome in Ubuntu is really awesome .

I don't think that the memory leak is an upstream problem. Because other distros don't have it. From my prospective I think that Sabayon (for example) does not do so much to KDE either. There is no additional sabayon-specific stuff in the system. And it has no memory leak. Ubuntu (Gnome) 10.4 also had some strange behaviour as I had it on my machine. So I think, its an Ubuntu 10.4-problem.


I noticed on this forum the comparisons between Gnome and KDE come up quite a lot so when 10.04 was released I installed both, Ubuntu and Kubuntu on the same computer and started using both. I have found both perform well on my Dell Laptop. But I am tending to favour Kubuntu. Maybe some of the problems people have are actually hardware specific.

(Kubuntu, Amorok and Browser 358.2 GiB Swap 0 GiB)

I don't think that it is hardware specific. Maybe it is just bad luck on my side. The Hardware over here worked outstanding perfect with all Ubuntu versions up to now. But with 10.4 there was something like a turning point.

Did anyone notice that in Ubuntu 10.4 (Gnome) some icons sometimes are not loaded at startup? Sometimes the icon for the networkmanager in the upper bar was not loaded, together with the "envelope" for the messages. Sometimes the network icon was just half there, like "cut" through the middle.
Sometimes also the icon for "show the desktop" in the lower bar is loaded just "half". This happened with both, "Ambiance" and "Radiance" themes. Bugs like these disturb me, because in all the versions before this was no issue at all. And the more important point is: AFAIK other distros do not have such issues with their default themes. So it "seems like" that it is possible to do a theme without these issues... --> another missed opportunity...


I had the same problem with Kubuntu for quite a while. It would slow down to the point that it broke compositing. For the longest time, I was convinced that my computer simply wasn't fast enough to run KDE.

Then I switched to Fedora's KDE spin, and have fallen in love with it.

this was the same at me at first. I thought, that my computer is maybe outdated or something. But then I realised that there must be something wrong in the system. Fedora is also a nice idea. Maybe I test it too, as I am still searching for a new main distro... what version of KDE do they use in F13?

[WinterRain]

Just for the sake of argument, I'm going to give The Mighty OpenSuse KDE another shot on a spare drive I have, since everyone raves about how they have the best implementation of it. If it works well, I'll come back and eat my words. Gnome, LXDE, and XFCE have all been rock solid for me. KDE has a lot to measure up to. I'll be back in a day or 2 with my experience.

[PC_load_letter]

Did anyone notice that in Ubuntu 10.4 (Gnome) some icons sometimes are not loaded at startup? Sometimes the icon for the networkmanager in the upper bar was not loaded, together with the "envelope" for the messages. Sometimes the network icon was just half there, like "cut" through the middle.


I have this problem on Karmic 64bit Ubuntu. I usually right click the panel > Properties > Size and either increase or decrease the size. Voila! the NM reappears. It's a stupid bug, but not a deal breaker.

[WinterRain]

I have this problem on Karmic 64bit Ubuntu. I usually right click the panel > Properties > Size and either increase or decrease the size. Voila! the NM reappears. It's a stupid bug, but not a deal breaker.

I'll take that any day, compared to what I went through with kde.

[Screwdriver0815]

I have this problem on Karmic 64bit Ubuntu. I usually right click the panel > Properties > Size and either increase or decrease the size. Voila! the NM reappears. It's a stupid bug, but not a deal breaker.

for me it is a deal breaker. Because when I should re-adjust this all the time, then I can also use the system from Redmond. This is my sight of these things. Maybe I am too picky but such small things annoy me to death.


Just for the sake of argument, I'm going to give The Mighty OpenSuse KDE another shot on a spare drive I have, since everyone raves about how they have the best implementation of it. If it works well, I'll come back and eat my words. Gnome, LXDE, and XFCE have all been rock solid for me. KDE has a lot to measure up to. I'll be back in a day or 2 with my experience.

as I said, OpenSuse is also not my piece of cake. But anyway, I look forward to your experience.
Just for the sake of argument ;) if you come back and say that KDE is crap because it's handling is different from Gnome or whatever, I personally don't value it ;)

[seenthelite]

Did anyone notice that in Ubuntu 10.4 (Gnome) some icons sometimes are not loaded at startup? Sometimes the icon for the networkmanager in the upper bar was not loaded, together with the "envelope" for the messages. Sometimes the network icon was just half there, like "cut" through the middle.
Sometimes also the icon for "show the desktop" in the lower bar is loaded just "half". This happened with both, "Ambiance" and "Radiance" themes. Bugs like these disturb me, because in all the versions before this was no issue at all. And the more important point is: AFAIK other distros do not have such issues with their default themes. So it "seems like" that it is possible to do a theme without these issues... --> another missed opportunity...

Yes, I experienced these things with Ubuntu 10.04 but only the 64 bit version not the 32 bit version. I used the 64 bit 10.04 on a computer with nVidia proprietary drivers and I had problems so I use Fedora 13 Gnome on that computer and Kubuntu 10.04 64 bit.
I use 32 bit Ubuntu on a Dell Laptop with no problems.

Some of the problems people have are actually hardware specific.

When I have time I will try Fedora's KDE 64 bit because Kubuntu 10.04 64 bit with the nVidia drivers is erratic, sometimes it does not shut down for example. Kubuntu 32 bit on the Dell is great though.

[NightwishFan]

I await your verdict on OpenSUSE. I like it, though lately I have not used it.

[WinterMadness]

I think kde in gemeral is a joke. Every implementation of it I have tried is buggier than the alpha version of Windows Millenium . Every other DE works perfect. Oh well.

What have you tried?

Anyway, if Kubuntu is to be the best kde distro, it has a looooooooooooong way to go.

For starters, the Kubuntu team SHOULDNT package software thats not ready for release according to the actual KDE team, like knetworkmanager.

Mandriva is a KDE lovers dream
OpenSuse is good
KDEMod with Arch Linux is a nice stripped down version.

Linux mint is less buggy than ubuntu despite being an near carbon copy, so i would advise trying kde in that before ubuntu.

[WinterRain]

then I can also use the system from Redmond. This is my sight of these things. Maybe I am too picky but such small things annoy me to death.

That's why I use linux, because too many things about windows annoyed me. I realize that not everyone will have the the Utopian experience I have with linux, but we each have to do what makes us happy.

[seenthelite]

I think kde in gemeral is a joke. Every implementation of it I have tried is buggier than the alpha version of Windows Millenium . Every other DE works perfect. Oh well.

Was this one of those Utopian experience's.

[WinterRain]

Was this one of those Utopian experience's.

<snip>

I'm not sure where you're going with this. Read all of my responses, and you'll see. Yes, I'm harsh, but I'm still a cheerleader for all things open source.

[PC_load_letter]

for me it is a deal breaker. Because when I should re-adjust this all the time, then I can also use the system from Redmond. This is my sight of these things. Maybe I am too picky but such small things annoy me to death.


I totally understand, I'm picky about other stuff too, but if something is bothering you too much, why don't submit a bug report, is this a known bug, I didn't even bother looking, I just assumed it had to do w/ the icon theme I'm using (hydroxygen).

In my case, using the other Redmond OS is not an option. I despise that other company and I took a vow not to use their products ever again, seriously.

[seenthelite]

<snip>

I'm not sure where you're going with this. Read all of my responses, and you'll see. Yes, I'm harsh, but I'm still a cheerleader for all things open source.

Yes. I am not looking for an argument. But I found this bit to be amusing.


buggier than the alpha version of Windows Millenium .

So alpha software had bugs in 1999 surely that is to be expected it happens even with Linux today.

[Screwdriver0815]

I totally understand, I'm picky about other stuff too, but if something is bothering you too much, why don't submit a bug report, is this a known bug, I didn't even bother looking, I just assumed it had to do w/ the icon theme I'm using (hydroxygen).

In my case, using the other Redmond OS is not an option. I despise that other company and I took a vow not to use their products ever again, seriously.

Bug report... yeah you are right. Kind of. In my eyes this is an issue of the new themeing, which is not hardware specific. So I am sure the Ubuntu-devs know about it. Of course I could do a bug report. But I know how it ends up: being sitting there for decades, while Ubuntu strives for new looks and feels... So why didn't they fix it in the first place? Why did Kubuntu release such a system, which is worse than TWO predecessors as a LTS?

For me, using the redmond stuff is also no option. I have to use it at work and it drives me mad. Having similar issues at home too, drives me even more mad.
So I took advantage of the possibilities of open source. But it does not really satisfy me, because deep in my heart I am still an Ubuntu guy.

[Linuxforall]

The snappiest and least buggiest kde I have seen done on any distro is sidux, after all like SuSE it comes from Germany but unlike SuSE which is far slow, KDE in sidux is damn fast.

[sixthwheel]

<snip>
Really uncalled for.
Insulting someones intelligence, and country of origin is not in line with the Ubuntu Code of Conduct.
Perhaps I need to report you to one of the Mods...This is not the first time this has happened.

[Screwdriver0815]

just for the record:

yesterday and the day before I tried some other distros:

Fedora 13 KDE spin and OpenSuse 11.3 release candidate 1.

Fedora 13 is actually a really nice system. The only drawback in my eyes is the tight integration of the new nouveau graphics driver which makes it really difficult to install the prop. nvidia graphics driver. I also tried the experimental 3d acceleration of the nouveau graphics driver. It works but still lacks some performance. But overall its a nice distro and the KDE integration is also very good.
Bugs and failures like in Kubuntu are not an issue with this system.

The OpenSuse 11.3 release candidate was also okay. But everytime I try OpenSuse I feel a little bit lost. I mean in my opinion all these features like yast and so on are really nice and it shows that the OpenSuse guys have actually thought about this system, how to develop it in a way, that it is usefull for the user.
But all these features and settings here, options there make it really difficult for me to understand the system. Thats why, opensuse is not my piece of cake.

I'll stick with Sabayon for the moment. And in the mean time, I hope that the Kubuntu guys learn from their mistakes and improve their product.

[PC_load_letter]

May I suggest Linux Mint, have you tried it before? The KDE integration is a community effort but IME Mint has always felt pretty solid regardless of the DE. The KDE edition of the latest Linux Mint 9 (Isadora) will soon be released, in the mean time you could try the KDE edition of Linux Mint 8 (Helena) which was based on Karmic.

Here: www.linuxmint.com