Top 10 packages to remove

[bored2k]

totem-gstreamer (please...)
evolution (hog)
gnome-btdownload (shameful client)
bittorrent (v.3.4 is horrible)
gaim 1.5 (because I compile gaim 2.0)
ekiga (anti-social)
gnome-games (real games please)
gnome-pilot (pilot-less)
bluez-pin (old-school)
vino (useless chez moi)

[pulp]

1. asian ttf packages (at least for non-asian installations. they take ages to install, are very big in size and pretty useless for me as i don't understand chinese websites better than without them)

2. all those python packages, that no other package depends on

3. all the cli-progs like mutt, w3m etc. (not vim of course. a user, who knows how to use w3m or even knows of it's existence also knows how to apt-get it)

4. OOo (hog. i prefer abiword/gnumeric)

5. evolution (of course)

6. gnome-games

7. laptop & mobile/pda stuff ( i never carry my desktop with me)

8. all the outdated bittorrent crap

9. update-notifier

10. spelling/dictionary stuff ( i always ignore the red lines anyways )


and i would love a diversification of the meta-packages. ubuntu-desktop is bloated way to much. there should be a choice during installation which metapackages to install. maybe ubuntu-fun for the games and gnome-office (why is firefox in there) OR openoffice, ubuntu-mobile for all the bluetooth/pda/pcmcia stuff and ubuntu-cli for the commandline programs.

[Titus A Duxass]

As described in the OP.
Is there anyway we can install a WM without bringing all the crap as well?
Even IceWM brings baggage along with which is a pity.

[mrgnash]

Gnome.

[sapo]

totem-gstreamer (please...)
evolution (hog)
gnome-btdownload (shameful client)
bittorrent (v.3.4 is horrible)
gaim 1.5 (because I compile gaim 2.0)
ekiga (anti-social)
gnome-games (real games please)
gnome-pilot (pilot-less)
bluez-pin (old-school)
vino (useless chez moi)


100% agreed, i always remove them by hand anyway, but it breaks the ubuntu-desktop package (as it was a big deal :rolleyes: )

[tom-ubuntu]

Whats wrong with evolution? An alternative which is niceley integrated into Gnome?

But I agree with the rest.

[sapo]

Whats wrong with evolution? An alternative which is niceley integrated into Gnome?

But I agree with the rest.
Since gmail i dont use any email clientes, but if i had to use one, it would be thunderbird and not evolution :p

[tom-ubuntu]

Since gmail i dont use any email clientes, but if i had to use one, it would be thunderbird and not evolution :p
Both are not really integrated into Gnome. And I don't like to be dependant on a company like google. But Thunderbird could be one.

But still: What's wrong with Evolution? ;)

[ComplexNumber]

evolution because i prefer lots of small focused programs
all internet stuff because i have no internet connection for linux
all the x-stuff(eg xterminal, xkill, etc) from the menu's because they're surplus
all of kde because it takes up space.

[Stormy Eyes]

I won't suggest removing anything; I can customize my own environment without needing the distro to change to reflect my tastes.

[darkmatter]

I won't suggest removing anything; I can customize my own environment without needing the distro to change to reflect my tastes.

At last!!! the voice of reason arrives!!! =D>

[ssam]

the kernel

who needs a kernel

[Stormy Eyes]

At last!!! the voice of reason arrives!!! =D>

Thanks. Granted, totem-gstreamer pisses me off, and ESD has annoyed me to no end (but that's not Ubuntu's fault; old Rasterman ought to stick to eye candy and leave software mixing to ALSA), but other people might find that crap useful. Since I don't, and I have the knowhow, I can just get rid of that crap myself.

[htinn]

If you need to be removing stuff like OOo because of limited space, then maybe you need to be thinking about doing something radical like getting a new hard drive or doing a clean reinstall.

If you have tons of space on your hard drive, why bother removing anything?

[darkmatter]

As Stormy Eyes already stated...

Those of us who care already have the knowledge and experience needed to make the changes ourselves. Why should the distro bend to accomidate the few???

[bored2k]

As Stormy Eyes already stated...

Those of us who care already have the knowledge and experience needed to make the changes ourselves. Why should the distro bend to accomidate the few???
We're not saying the distro should change, I'm just asking for the stuff that annoys people at first.

[bored2k]

If you have tons of space on your hard drive, why bother removing anything?
Some of us simply hate having bloatware installed. Heck, it bothers me when I have something as small and simple as a useless <1kb file. I don't have the Gmail spirit of leaving everything archived. I just don't have bloatware. I feel lighter when I clean myself up after going to the Wells Chapel :-D .

[Iandefor]

1. Evolution- I don't use it or want it, anytime it happens to be run, it starts up services that are >100 MB in size. Screw that! I like Sylpheed better, if ever I need an email client

2. Ekiga- Don't need it or want it.

3. Totem-gstreamer- I prefer xine.

4. OO.o- I'm not too demanding of my office client, and, quite simply, GNOME Office works great for me and it's nowhere near so bloated as OO.o.

THat's all I can think of that I remove.

[TeeAhr1]

Stormy: As anyone who's removed Firefox 1.0.7 knows, there are some packages you can't just pull if you don't like them/use them. I have plenty of drive space to let that sucker gather dust, but lots of people don't have the luxury of shelling out for a new drive when they run dry of space.

I agree that the distro shouldn't have to bend to accomodate the needs/wants of a (relatively) few users, but it also shouldn't break my desktop to remove a web browser, that's ridiculous.

Last note: I like the above poster's idea of diversifying the meta-packages, but I can see that turning into a huge, unwieldly project too. Maybe something like (as has been previously discussed) an advanced install option?

[Zodiac]

Some of us simply hate having bloatware installed. Heck, it bothers me when I have something as small and simple as a useless <1kb file. I don't have the Gmail spirit of leaving everything archived. I just don't have bloatware. I feel lighter when I clean myself up after going to the Wells Chapel :-D .

I so agree with you, but still, you can't remove it just because a few people think it shouldn't be there... but you knew that already didn't ya ;)

[bored2k]

Last note: I like the above poster's idea of diversifying the meta-packages, but I can see that turning into a huge, unwieldly project too. Maybe something like (as has been previously discussed) an advanced install option?
To me, the ideal Ubuntu installer would have Advanced Install option which would have

Detailed package selection.
The ability for the user to enter custom repositories (say, multiverse/universe/extra/etc), so the distro installs with everything you'd want, even if this would display a "this repos are not official, so we have no responsability for what they do" warning.
If 1 and 2 would get done, an option to save all your custom options in a script :-D.
Wouldn't that rock?

Custombuntu: Linux for human geeks ;).

[Stormy Eyes]

Stormy: As anyone who's removed Firefox 1.0.7 knows, there are some packages you can't just pull if you don't like them/use them. I have plenty of drive space to let that sucker gather dust, but lots of people don't have the luxury of shelling out for a new drive when they run dry of space.

Fair enough. I thought this thread was just a gripe-fest, so I replied accordingly.


I agree that the distro shouldn't have to bend to accomodate the needs/wants of a (relatively) few users, but it also shouldn't break my desktop to remove a web browser, that's ridiculous.

Unfortunately, there are probably other apps that use libraries (like the Gecko renderer) provided by Firefox. If I feel the need to have the absolute latest stuff, I tend to install it in /opt, symlink the programs into /usr/local/bin, and then alter my $PATH to put /usr/local/bin before /usr/bin. This allows me to have new, non-standard programs without screwing up my system too badly, but it doesn't solve the issue of limited disk space.


Maybe something like (as has been previously discussed) an advanced install option?

You can do a barebones install (server option), and then install the packages you want. I did this to keep an old Pentium-233 in use as a terminal.

[bored2k]

I so agree with you, but still, you can't remove it just because a few people think it shouldn't be there... but you knew that already didn't ya ;)
Again, I'm not in a crusade to make the developers remove software, I'm just asking for some input from all the totem-gstreamer/evolution haters out there ;).

[TeeAhr1]

Unfortunately, there are probably other apps that use libraries (like the Gecko renderer) provided by Firefox.
That's exactly it. I know that yelp ties into gecko (imagine my n00b *** finding that out a week after installing Linux...where do you go for help when help's broken?), along with gods alone know what else. I took the lazy man's approach, just installed 1.5 in /home and pointed the gnome widgets at it (although I must say I find your solution much more thorough). But damn, it would have been nice to have gecko installed as a seperate package.


To me, the ideal Ubuntu installer would have Advanced Install option...*snip*
That's exactly what I mean. Well put!

[bonzodog]

From Dapper the first two must be: Gnome-screensaver and Gnome X-chat. They are both hopeless programs, and are very unconfigurable.

[Stormy Eyes]

I took the lazy man's approach, just installed 1.5 in /home and pointed the gnome widgets at it (although I must say I find your solution much more thorough). But damn, it would have been nice to have gecko installed as a seperate package.

I think we'd have to get the Mozilla people to separate Gecko from Firefox in order to make a separate libgecko package, but I could be wrong. My use of /opt might be overkill in your case, if all you want is the latest Firefox. However, I find it useful when installing games like Neverwinter Nights and Quake III as well.

[YuHoo]

I agree that the distro shouldn't have to bend to accomodate the needs/wants of a (relatively) few users, but it also shouldn't break my desktop to remove a web browser, that's ridiculous.

I disagree with the distro not needing to bend. On the initial install obviously there will be standardization, but flexibility is why I switched to Linux. Windows wanted me to use everything that they made and same with macs (I HATE iTunes!). Linux gives me about 10,000 packages to choose from and about a dozen distros. I'm also insanely obsessive compulsive and hate having things I don't use on my computer. Could this be something that Dapper needs to allow? Full flexibility of the desktop at the user's request? Maybe have a gui on the install that can deselect them or an end-user creation.

[Stormy Eyes]

From Dapper the first two must be: Gnome-screensaver and Gnome X-chat. They are both hopeless programs, and are very unconfigurable.

How configurable does a screensaver have to be? Just pick one and set the time a display is to remain idle before the screensaver kicks in. WTF is the big deal?

[Master Shake]

The funny thing is that I LOVE the gnome-games package, even though the interface on Blackjack is very un-intuitive.

I've been horribly addicted to Tali lately.

[Stormy Eyes]

Full flexibility of the desktop at the user's request? Maybe have a gui on the install that can deselect them or an end-user creation.

There's no reason why you can't do a server install and then add the packages you want. Granted, it requires some familiarity with the command line, but you're going to need to learn how to use a terminal eventually.

[pulp]

Well, I'm having a 15gig harddrive and would love to install Dapper. Unfortunately I removed about 600 Megs of ubuntu-desktop dependencies. But there is no big difference to the original ubuntu-desktop except maybe OOo replaced with alternatives. I dont think a majority of the people would even notice a difference that justifies the 600 MB extra-bloat of the ubuntu-desktop package. Now i hate to install the metapackage again just to get all the updates coming with the ubuntu-desktop in dapper.

I don't want to tell the Ubuntu makers how to do their job, but I also don't want to take it slavishly as a god given fact. I think many users aren't 100% happy with the package selection and many of them with reason. As bored2k stated some people just hate every kb of unnecessarily wasted disk space. Why even bother to make things more efficient if you could just buy a new cpu and gigs of ram. Why not bloat the distro to a dvd size?

Maybe some people just feel better, when they expressed, what they don't like. And Ubuntu isn't perfect at all

[imagine]

To me, the ideal Ubuntu installer would have Advanced Install option which would have

Detailed package selection.
[...]
Wouldn't that rock?No.
Such an installer would be bloated, even if it just increased its size by 1 KB. Being able to just pick a default package selection wouldn't help either, since the bloat would still be there and I hate bloat.
; )

[bored2k]

No.
Such an installer would be bloated, even if it just increased its size by 1 KB. Being able to just pick a default package selection wouldn't help either, since the bloat would still be there and I hate bloat.
; )
So you'd rather have a bloated desktop with a mass of useless space on the drive than have an efficient installer? Remember, most of the linux installers have this option, and over the years, it has proven its worthiness.

[John.Michael.Kane]

If you need it keep it.
if you dont remove it.
if your trying to make it as light as you can use the server install, and apt-get what you need.
if your going full bore use LFS, and build yourself the lightest OS you can.

Bottom line you have many options, and not everyone will aggree with your method to get there.


Just my thoughts...

[Stormy Eyes]

If you need it keep it.
if you dont remove it.
if your trying to make it as light as you can use the server install, and apt-get what you need.
if your going full bore use LFS, and build yourself the lightest OS you can.

I've always thought that if I wanted to have it my way, I had to do it myself. I wonder what happened to the DIY attitude; sure it can be elitist, but sometimes a DIY approach is what's needed.

[nickle]

Gnome. No use for that...

[Virogenesis]

I would rather remove the crap which is unneeded from ubuntu ie:gnome games , xchat-gnome (IF i find out whos idea it was to replace xchat for this piece of junk i'll shoot them or maybe worse), that bt client that comes with ubuntu, totem and rythem box.

Why the hell aren't we using anaconda its much better for configuring and more impressive to the end user , its GPL


Gnome. No use for that...
Grow up!!!

[John.Michael.Kane]

Stormy Eyes the DIY thought is still around for some, and some feel the distros should have what they need out of box with no user interaction. however theres always a way to make whatever distro one uses work the way they need it too.

Again just my thoughts...

@nickle theres a distro for everyone, and not all of them are based on gnome. if you have issues with that interface i'm sure with a little searching you can find one to fit your needs or as i stated build your own LFS style.

[Stormy Eyes]

And if you're not hardcore enough for LFS, there's always Gentoo -- or straight Debian.

[pulp]

Well actually I'm following the DIY attitude but I don't keep things that bug me for myself as a secret. And those "If you don't like it take LFS" posts are really annoying and are helping nobody.

Besides Canonical is a company, that in the long run wants to make profit. And you do not make profit if your product doesn't fit the users needs. If my opinion is contrary to the majorities opinion then it's my problem but it doesn't mean that I cannot presume to question things that are, in my opinion, obviously unnecessary.

And I really do believe that a more flexible metapackage system wouldn't hurt anybody but would be a significant plus for the distro.

[John.Michael.Kane]

pulp frist off i can only speak for myself, and say i was not taking a if you dont like use LFS atatude. I was simply stating the enduser has many options including building their own distro compiled with what they want, and need, and without what ever they dont need. sorry if my thoughts have offended you pulp as an enduser.

[engla]

I personally remove
OpenOffice
gnome-games
Because they are pointless and I don't use them, of course. And then I add tons of things.
But that's just personal, I don't need ubuntu to change, as long as it has the guidelines: 1. One app per niche 2. Should fit on one CD

[rcmiv]

From Dapper the first two must be: Gnome-screensaver and Gnome X-chat. They are both hopeless programs, and are very unconfigurable.

Definitely. Both suck. What was wrong with x-screensaver and x-chat, anyway? Neither app felt overly burdened with options to me.

Though I do like the idea that it is possible to actually _remove_ unnecessary features from time to time, instead of incessantly adding them. It feels more unixy. "Do one thing well," and all that.

-rcmiv

[prizrak]

Bluetooth support is always the first to go, since I got none.

[majikstreet]

guys, this thread is asking people what do you remove first..
not do you want to remove stuff? do you agree or disagree with removing stuff?

really.. and the grow up comment at removing gnome, that was wrong.

Just be nice to people... ^_^ -_-

[ComplexNumber]

really.. and the grow up comment at removing gnome, that was wrong. well, the first thing that i do for every distro except suse is remove kde, because suse is the only distro i've ever used where kde is half decent.

[Virogenesis]

I do not see how my rreply was wrong.... ubuntu was designed for gnome in mindd before the kde users even came along there were talks about should kunbutu even exist if you don't like gnome go use mephis .
If you do a squick search you'll find hes a kde user and that basasicaly means he was flaming for the sake of it.
If something isn't constructive then why say it .

[Senori]

i'll shoot them or maybe worse... Grow up!!!
:)

F-Spot is better than gThumb for managing photos; I start with that.

[bonzodog]

I agree with bored2k about an expert install menu selection. It's all good and fine doing a server install, but I need a menu of what is installable and available upon first boot in that case.
It would be a very simple step to change the current installer to add an 'expert' option that connects to the repos and then lists all software available. In case people didn't already know, the installer IS going to become more bloated as it will possibly go properly graphical running in a framebuffer. I just want the expert -with-menus option at install.