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Swagman
June 17th, 2010, 04:13 PM
Jeremy Reimer has added another section to his awesome "History of the Amiga" series over at ARS Technica (http://arstechnica.com)

Latest Addition = Shadow of the 16-Bit Beast (http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2010/06/shadow-of-the-16-bit-beast-an-amiga-gaming-retrospective.ars)



The Nintendo chief, whose company was at the time bestriding the video game world like a colossus, could do nothing but stare, dumbstruck, at the machine while muttering "great graphics" over and over.

Index to the full Series is at the foot of the last page (4) on the above link.

N00bs might find it enlightening to learn where most of todays game coders earnt their wings.

handy
June 17th, 2010, 04:52 PM
...
N00bs might find it enlightening to learn where most of todays game coders earnt their wings.

Matthew Dillon, the creator of Dragonfly BSD, was a highly skilled & valued Amiga coder back in the day... :)

The way it was in those days, was that coders would release their new version & be showing off about how the newest version of their creation could do so many more things & it was so much smaller in code size than the superseded version.

I haven't really noticed that in the FOSS world, though I could be missing something.

I'm hoping that Haiku is going to bring that attitude to the table.

NMFTM
June 17th, 2010, 05:15 PM
The way it was in those days, was that coders would release their new version & be showing off about how the newest version of their creation could do so many more things & it was so much smaller in code size than the superseded version.
Just to play devils advocate, isn't efficient coding a trade off for developing more advanced software?

Way back in the day, memory and secondard storage space was very limited. So, applications had to out of necessity be very small and efficient. But, that also meant that a ton of time was spent making code more efficient that could have been spent doing new and innovative things. Today, memory and secondard storage spaces have increased to the extend that they're essentially non-issues for most software. So, while applications may be getting continually more bloated. Since coders don't need to worry as much about keeping bloat to a minimum, they can focus more on trying new and innovative things.

I mean, if you really wanted to reduce bloat. Why not go back to writing everything in assembly language?

alphaniner
June 17th, 2010, 05:24 PM
From part three:


Amiga, Inc. didn't have a lot of money left over for shipping its prototype to the show, and the engineers were understandably nervous about putting such a delicate device through the rigors of commercial package transport. Instead, RJ Mical and Dale Luck purchased an extra airline seat between the two of them and wrapped the fledgling Amiga in pillows for extra security.

Can you imagine trying something like this today? The TSA monsters would have you detained and molested before you got through the front doors of the airport.

handy
June 17th, 2010, 05:38 PM
Just to play devils advocate, isn't efficient coding a trade off for developing more advanced software?

No, I don't think so.

MS seemed to have pushed the line with VB; it doesn't matter about how much drive space you use, we'll just tell them that they need to buy a bigger drive.



Way back in the day, memory and secondard storage space was very limited. So, applications had to out of necessity be very small and efficient. But, that also meant that a ton of time was spent making code more efficient that could have been spent doing new and innovative things. Today, memory and secondard storage spaces have increased to the extend that they're essentially non-issues for most software. So, while applications may be getting continually more bloated. Since coders don't need to worry as much about keeping bloat to a minimum, they can focus more on trying new and innovative things.

Inefficient poor quality coding is always what it is, just that.



I mean, if you really wanted to reduce bloat. Why not go back to writing everything in assembly language?

Lots of code was written in machine code for the Amiga. Fast & light as it gets.

If you had a 10MB HDD connected to an Amiga, you could have every piece of software ever made for the thing installed & a pile of data & still have half of the drive space free.

Again I say it looks like Haiku just might be the new kid on the block that actually functions efficiently. As it is now in Alpha it boots up on my No.2 box in 3 seconds & shuts down cold in 1.

handy
June 17th, 2010, 05:44 PM
...
Can you imagine trying something like this today? The TSA monsters would have you detained and molested before you got through the front doors of the airport.

The prototype A1000 was probably chips connected via long strands of bare silver wire to a makeshift development (one step away from a bread board) circuit board as well at that stage.

It is a shame that someone else (not Commodore) with the funds didn't buy the Amiga from the Doctors who initially funded it. The computing world may be quite different under those circumstances.

Another parallel life that we'll never know.

alphaniner
June 17th, 2010, 05:51 PM
The prototype A1000 was probably chips connected via long strands of bare silver wire to a makeshift development (one step away from a bread board) circuit board as well at that stage.

On the contrary, the prototype was breadboards configured as the primary chipset:

http://media.arstechnica.com/journals/microsoft.media/lorrainechips.jpg

handy
June 18th, 2010, 12:03 AM
On the contrary, the prototype was breadboards configured as the primary chipset:

http://media.arstechnica.com/journals/microsoft.media/lorrainechips.jpg

Cool photo! :)

Where did you find that?

dullard
June 18th, 2010, 01:44 AM
MS seemed to have pushed the line with VB; it doesn't matter about how much drive space you use, we'll just tell them that they need to buy a bigger drive.

'Twas ever thus.

As a die-hard Amiga user who enjoyed many a BBS I can tell you it wasn't easy watching Windows take control of the game. Being forced along the upgrade path has become the norm these days but it wasn't easy to get used to back then.

We live in different times... No use complaining...

alphaniner
June 18th, 2010, 01:48 AM
Cool photo! :)

Where did you find that?

It was in an earlier installment of the series.

Part 3: The first prototype (http://arstechnica.com/hardware/news/2007/08/a-history-of-the-amiga-part-3.ars)

K.Mandla
June 18th, 2010, 01:52 AM
I mean, if you really wanted to reduce bloat. Why not go back to writing everything in assembly language?
Some people do.

http://kmandla.wordpress.com/2010/02/08/kolibri-1-44mb-of-cute/

lisati
June 18th, 2010, 02:09 AM
Some people do.

http://kmandla.wordpress.com/2010/02/08/kolibri-1-44mb-of-cute/

I used to, until about 10 years ago when I got my first Windows machine.

handy
June 18th, 2010, 08:29 AM
It was in an earlier installment of the series.

Part 3: The first prototype (http://arstechnica.com/hardware/news/2007/08/a-history-of-the-amiga-part-3.ars)

Thanks for the link, it looks like the series will make good reading. :)

BuffaloX
June 18th, 2010, 11:52 PM
The Amiga 1000 is by far the best computer ever made IMO.
Sadly we don't have that kind of competition anymore.
PC, Mackintosh, Amiga, Sinclair QL, Archimedes, Enterprise, Amstrad.

The Amiga was lightyears ahead of the competition.

It was the only one featuring
real multitasking. (competition none)
4 channel sampled audio. (competition none)
4096 colors. (competition none)
Fast expansion bus with fast IRQ. (competition none)
No IRQ conflicts even when adding many expansions. (competition ?)
Complete access to all specifications. (competition PC)
highres multicolor reusable sprites. (competition none)
Vector and Block Image Transfer co-processor. (Blitter) (competition Enterprise)
double RAM speed to maximize CPU and co-processor performance. (competition none)
TV compatibility.
RAM expandable to several megabytes. (competition none)
Long filenames allowing notes.

Modern PCs are of course more powerful, and have most of these features, but it took almost a decade for it to catch up, and still we don't have standardized file notes.

handy
June 19th, 2010, 12:20 AM
The A500, A2000, A3000 & A4000 all had much more expandability than the A1000. Increasing with their specification name/number.

I put a Phoenix board in my A1000, which was designed & built in Oz by Nic Wilson & co. It had a 68030 CPU/Maths Co-Processor, lots of RAM & many other smart improvements on the original A1000 board.

I also owned multiple A500s & A2000s, never got my hands on the big guns made after the A2000 though unfortunately.

It was certainly a sad day when I had to move on (for business reasons) to the windows world.

wilee-nilee
June 19th, 2010, 12:24 AM
Some people do.

http://kmandla.wordpress.com/2010/02/08/kolibri-1-44mb-of-cute/

Wow that kolibros boots in like 2 seconds.

handy
June 19th, 2010, 02:44 AM
Wow that kolibros boots in like 2 seconds.

As fast or perhaps a second faster than Haiku!

wilee-nilee
June 19th, 2010, 02:57 AM
As fast or perhaps a second faster than Haiku!

I'm downloading the ISO for a Vbox to check it out. Doh I just noticed the vm version, I'm a little slow sometimes.;)

toupeiro
June 19th, 2010, 03:43 AM
I cut my teeth on an A500, and can attest for both the amazing graphics and fun factor of the games, along with the comparatively insane size efficiency of its code. Running multiple games, that destroyed any console and most other PC games of that era, from a 720K floppy was awesome!

handy
June 19th, 2010, 04:33 AM
I cut my teeth on an A500, and can attest for both the amazing graphics and fun factor of the games, along with the comparatively insane size efficiency of its code. Running multiple games, that destroyed any console and most other PC games of that era, from a 720K floppy was awesome!

It's easy to forget that the capacity of the Amiga DS/DD floppy disks was 880K. :)

I agree toupeiro, the Amiga days were great, a real adventure into computing for me too. I never recovered. ;)

Actually I'd be very happy to find something else to get into that could give me the same buzz as the Amiga did in those days.

Due to the internet not having blasted off for the masses yet, I found that there were a few people I met that were also Amiga enthusiasts, we used to get together & copy floppies & help each other learn more about how AmigaDOS worked, writing ever more advanced scripts.

Interesting that; now I talk to you guys who are often on the other side of the world on the forums...

It isn't quite the same as developing a genuine "normal" human relationship/friendship though; there are obviously some parts missing. :)

wilee-nilee
June 19th, 2010, 04:51 AM
Hey I've seen your picture with the Clydesdale.;)

handy
June 19th, 2010, 07:23 AM
Hey I've seen your picture with the Clydesdale.;)

Beautiful horse.

wilee-nilee
June 19th, 2010, 07:25 AM
Beautiful horse.

Looked like a sweet ride, just bring the shovel, you and the misses looked happy.

Edit:that was some serious horse-power to weight ratio.:p

handy
June 19th, 2010, 10:11 AM
Looked like a sweet ride, just bring the shovel, you and the misses looked happy.

Edit:that was some serious horse-power to weight ratio.:p

A horse is pound for pound the strongest animal on the planet, let alone one of the large working breeds.

handy
June 19th, 2010, 03:50 PM
The easiest way I found to access all of Jeremy Reimer's well researched & expertly written History of the Amiga articles (& some of his others too) was from the index on his blog:

http://www.jeremyreimer.com/postman/node/304