Amiga - the 16bit years....

[yester64]

I recently read this article from ars technica.

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2010/06/shadow-of-the-16-bit-beast-an-amiga-gaming-retrospective.ars?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=rss

It reminded me how got programs were at the time and how great machines were.
I wonder, can this happen again? Can a company again create a machine so ahead of its time that will gain a serious marketshare?
All we got now is PC vs. Apple. Thats about it.
I feel that we are not having anymore the freedom and choice we used to have.
Let alone to see some mindblowing games what is possible to archive with limited hardware.
Today we get told to get a newer card to play game X.
Not that i complain really. But for some reason i think that at that time games were possible on such a machine for a long time which set standards and very in any respect great.

I think i will be just thinking off a new machine that changes the world once again. :)

[DeadSuperHero]

I really love reading articles like these. It sounds like the 90's was a really fun time to be a programmer, especially on the Amiga platform.

I think it's all quite possible, really. If anything, Free Software SHOULD be an enabler for such a community to build up in the gaming scene. The fact that it hasn't is a bit puzzling.

I think the first thing that needs to be done is to put together some simplified tools for independent developers/people just getting started. One of my favourite game programming IDE's was called Adventure Game Studio, and it allowed a user to put together a quite comprehensive 2D game with a lot of ease.

Actually, I think starting on 2D adventure games for Linux would be a great place to start...

[kaldor]

Too many people adopted computers. Back then it was easier to find different setups for different tasks.

I remember, as a child, commonly seeing what I believe was SunOS in some buildings. Reason being that it was lavender/purple in colour. My local library used black and white macs.

Nowadays you hear "what version of Windows do you run?" and not "What OS/processor/etc do you run?"

I'd like to see projects like Haiku and Syllable take off. I dabbled with it and it's fun. It just needs to get a better look; feels like 90's too much.

[ubunterooster]

A bit off-topic but are there any 16-bit OSs I can run in Virtualbox?

[handy]

I was heavily into the Amiga platform from 1987 for about 10 years. In the end it was such a shame to see the Commodore company drag out its own demise for such a long period. It made it so difficult for anyone to ever be able to salvage the Amiga at the time.

If a company with lots of funds converted the current AmigaOS so that it ran on the x86 platform it would be a wonderful shot in the arm for many computer users. As the system is still incredibly efficient & much more clever than it used to be. It would also attract a lot of interest from developers.

I expect that it may happen eventually. Hope so. :)

Haiku may be the next best thing, time will tell.

[DeadSuperHero]

If a company with lots of funds converted the current AmigaOS so that it ran on the x86 platform it would be a wonderful shot in the arm for many computer users. As the system is still incredibly efficient & much more clever than it used to be. It would also attract a lot of interest from developers.

.

The sad fact of the matter is that a good amount of Amiga users are heavily anti-x86. Now, if someone could make manufacuturing PowerPC-based desktop computers practical again...

I would check out A-Eon's (http://www.a-eon.com/) X1000 project, which was made in conjunction with the current owners of the AmigaOS branding, platform, and source code, Hyperion Entertainment.

[yester64]

I think this quote boils it down to the root. What Amiga was all about.


Creative programming techniques, brand new graphic effects, and innovative music were all par for the course for Amiga game developers. But who were these people? What drove them? Jim Sachs had an answer:
"...[E]ven in those days, it was not really about the hardware. It was about the type of people that were attracted to it—their "can-do" attitude. When I started consulting on PC projects after the Amiga, I was surprised that developers were not eager to try something unless some other developer had already done it. With the Amiga developers, it was almost pointless to try for an effect unless NOBODY had done it before."


This is what i miss most today. If someone write a program today, it is not about 'can it run with 1mb ram', its more about 'you need to upgrade your computer'.
The efficiency is not there today. Just look at the current OS's. They do get more bloated without giving much of benefits. I am pretty sure most programs can do better if they would be coded better.
But there is of course the difference that the Amiga (like Apple) had a pretty closed system. Therefore it was easier to worry just about the hardware from one company.

If i had some money left to spend, i might just put linux on an amiga. :) There was even Linux for Amiga which came out around the A3000. Gosh, so long ago.

At least linux does distinguish itself from the rest. One thing though.
The one thing you never seen on an Amiga was the mousepointer flickering, under DOS or Windows this was always there.

[handy]

The sad fact of the matter is that a good amount of Amiga users are heavily anti-x86. Now, if someone could make manufacuturing PowerPC-based desktop computers practical again...

There would be some Amiga users that unfortunately carry some chauvinism in them & want to remain in some kind of elite separate category of computer users.

There are far more than them that are using other systems these days & long for a return to a modern AmigaOS/hardware integration that they can actually use in a day to day situation.



I would check out A-Eon's (http://www.a-eon.com/) X1000 project, which was made in conjunction with the current owners of the AmigaOS branding, platform, and source code, Hyperion Entertainment.

Thanks. :) I'm very well aware of them & also think that they are doing a fantastic job. I hope they find whatever it takes (usually funds) to carry on & bring all of their previous hard work to the so called i386 world. As previously stated, I think that they will eventually, but a huge amount of work has to happen first. Which is very costly.

[yester64]

The sad fact of the matter is that a good amount of Amiga users are heavily anti-x86. Now, if someone could make manufacuturing PowerPC-based desktop computers practical again...

I would check out A-Eon's (http://www.a-eon.com/) X1000 project, which was made in conjunction with the current owners of the AmigaOS branding, platform, and source code, Hyperion Entertainment.

Nice. Looking forward to this one.
One computer which will run again on Motorolla chips.

Yes, there were (at least at the time before 93) a big sentiments against intel or more against Windows.
Remember, Windows started to dominate the computer world and Amiga users as Atari users understood themself not as elite but as different.
A lot of original Amiga users parted to either PC or Apple.
Now people speak of computer as PC's as intel PC's with Windows on it. A defacto standard.
Apple users never gave up with their brand either. Not sure if the magazine still exists, but there was Mac Addict and again this user base defined themself as different to the current flow which was Windows.
But there is one difference. Apple was always more an elite system due to its high price and mainly promoted to publishing rather than normal folks.
Amiga was the machine for the normal folk who had limited money and could do these amazing stuff which only big machines were able to do.

Amiga was also the machine that introduced me to the phenomena virus. Before i never heard of such thing, but you (or better the machine) got it pretty easy.
Also, there was another knowing what differentiated Amiga vs. PC at the time which was that the Amiga did not have a Bios. Everything was in the ROM (ok you called it bios) and everything was autoconfigurated. A normal user never ever had to config hardware to keep going.

I don't think that this is still happening today. Most amiga users i see and write are fairly normal and have anyway a pc and just keep their passion with the machine.

I hope this machine will appear. It might be the right thing for someone who wants to be an outcast in a sense.
Thanks for the link. :)

[Lightstar]

All we got now is PC vs. Apple. Thats about it.


You must know this, PC stands for personal computer.
What we have now is:
Desktop Computers
Laptops
Tablets
Mobile Internet Devices (smartphones can kinda be included in this one)

The next big thing will be the digital reality idea, where you can bring stuff from the digital world to the real one, and vice versa.

Think of Tony Starks computers.
There's some of this stuff already existing.

Later on it will be quantum computers, where the data is not sequential but parallel.

[samalex]

A bit off-topic but are there any 16-bit OSs I can run in Virtualbox?

You can run any Intel-based 16-bit OS via VirtualBox as far as I know. I've installed MS-DOS 6.22 on VirtualBox which is 16-bit, and it worked great along with Windows 3.11.

As long is it is Intel based and not something like PPC or some other processor, VBox should work.

Sam

[ubunterooster]

You can run any Intel-based 16-bit OS via VirtualBox as far as I know. I've installed MS-DOS 6.22 on VirtualBox which is 16-bit, and it worked great along with Windows 3.11.

As long is it is Intel based and not something like PPC or some other processor, VBox should work.

Sam
Okay thanks

[murderslastcrow]

Yeah, the thing about technology in this past decade seems to be that everyone's waiting for the future while it's actually happening all around them. The sciences, robot manufacturing, speech recognition and cognitive software of a high degree of functionality, a low-resource, high quality OS in the software development field coming to refinement, etc.

The real issue is that, since people tend to ignore the innovations we've made and see them as unrealistic, they settle for less, and we fail to integrate these technologies when we could have some very interesting, life-changing results if we did.

10 years from now, we're all going to feel very stupid about how we did things today.

[Lightstar]

Yeah, the thing about technology in this past decade seems to be that everyone's waiting for the future while it's actually happening all around them. The sciences, robot manufacturing, speech recognition and cognitive software of a high degree of functionality, a low-resource, high quality OS in the software development field coming to refinement, etc.

The real issue is that, since people tend to ignore the innovations we've made and see them as unrealistic, they settle for less, and we fail to integrate these technologies when we could have some very interesting, life-changing results if we did.

10 years from now, we're all going to feel very stupid about how we did things today.

I agree.
Also, people are afraid of change. I think we noticed that with the clutter of messages on these forums saying "omg?!?! buttons are on the left in the new ubuntu?!? this is the end of the world!" And those people quickly reverted to the old ways.

[handy]

I'm very happy with the current level of computer technology hardware/software that I use. If it never changed it is more than enough for my needs now.

I'll stick a 10/100/1000 8 port hub on my system before too long & make a few new Cat5e cables, apart from that the only upgrade I would appreciate is the provision of faster internet at our local exchange. Though I don't really need it.

[yester64]

You must know this, PC stands for personal computer.
What we have now is:
Desktop Computers
Laptops
Tablets
Mobile Internet Devices (smartphones can kinda be included in this one)

The next big thing will be the digital reality idea, where you can bring stuff from the digital world to the real one, and vice versa.

Think of Tony Starks computers.
There's some of this stuff already existing.

Later on it will be quantum computers, where the data is not sequential but parallel.

Nah, this misses the point a little.
The Amiga was special at the time. It was affordable and ahead of its time.
If something like this had to be repeated, i am not sure what it had to offer to be in the same situation.
Today, all computer do more or less the same task with the same kind of programs.
Plus, today everything is much more commercialized than it used to be at that time. No one really need to have a gaming machine anymore since gaming (and i am very confident) is played largely on consoles.
Web can be done on any computer. Office you most likely will stay with windows.
What i am trying to say with this is, that it will be very challenging to place a new Amiga into this world.
I like the concept and if can run something else on it, i might consider it even as my next purchase.

I am not sure if i will live to see the next revolution with parallel computing. Or whatever it might be. Or maybe i do. Not sure.

[handy]

Nah, this misses the point a little.
The Amiga was special at the time. It was affordable and ahead of its time.
If something like this had to be repeated, i am not sure what it had to offer to be in the same situation.
Today, all computer do more or less the same task with the same kind of programs.
Plus, today everything is much more commercialized than it used to be at that time.

Anyone remember the "Fish disks"? The resource for all of the many public domain items that was created & maintained by the late great Fred Fish.

We didn't have the internet, in those days, we had the "Fish disks" & magazines, not the least of them being MegaDisc, the amazing commercial free 2xfloppy disk magazine coming from Oz, that was created/maintained by the editor Tim Strachan, & was primarily filled with contributions on the full range of topics by Amiga enthusiasts. I used to write software reviews & AmigaDOS tutorials in those days. Funny how I couldn't be bothered learning Bash these days...

[McRat]

Sidebar (tight coding)-

I still think the most impressive thing I ever saw a desktop computer do was a Sinclair/Timex 1000 running off a cassette tape, outputting to a B&W Television, with 16k of memory running a 3D flight simulator. It had instruments, retracts, flaps, wind effects, and crash analysis. Early 1980's?

I'm not sure you could write Hello World today in 16k.

[Letrazzrot]

Sidebar (tight coding)-
I'm not sure you could write Hello World today in 16k.

This piqued my interest, so I found this: http://timelessname.com/elfbin/
142 bytes, apparently.


Anyone remember the "Fish disks"? The resource for all of the many public domain items that was created & maintained by the late great Fred Fish.

We didn't have the internet, in those days, we had the "Fish disks" & magazines, not the least of them being MegaDisc, the amazing commercial free 2xfloppy disk magazine coming from Oz, that was created/maintained by the editor Tim Strachan, & was primarily filled with contributions on the full range of topics by Amiga enthusiasts. I used to write software reviews & AmigaDOS tutorials in those days. Funny how I couldn't be bothered learning Bash these days...

Oh yeah, there were several of those disks (some with a magazine attached) if I recall correctly. The Amiga is also when I first started messing around with BBS and modems.

[yester64]

Anyone remember the "Fish disks"? The resource for all of the many public domain items that was created & maintained by the late great Fred Fish.

We didn't have the internet, in those days, we had the "Fish disks" & magazines, not the least of them being MegaDisc, the amazing commercial free 2xfloppy disk magazine coming from Oz, that was created/maintained by the editor Tim Strachan, & was primarily filled with contributions on the full range of topics by Amiga enthusiasts. I used to write software reviews & AmigaDOS tutorials in those days. Funny how I couldn't be bothered learning Bash these days...

Yes, i remember these fish disk. We had tons of these disks and it was all about shareware or freeware.
A lot of good stuff that came on those disks. I also had Amiga Format (i remember a interview there with Bullfrog about powermonger i believe).
You know, i loved CLI. It wasn't dos, it was a communication window with your computer.
The best program and useful (i still did not find anything remotly to it today) was snoopdos. A little tiny program that showed you exactly what a program was doing. Opening something, writing data etc...
Very useful.
And my all time favorite Cygnus Ed. Oh man, such good programs. It was the time where even Electronic Arts was a pretty innovative company with their Deluxe Paint. Loved it.

[yester64]

This piqued my interest, so I found this: http://timelessname.com/elfbin/
142 bytes, apparently.



Oh yeah, there were several of those disks (some with a magazine attached) if I recall correctly. The Amiga is also when I first started messing around with BBS and modems.

I used Cnet and AmiXpress. Not sure if people still use any of these programs.

[handy]

Yes, i remember these fish disk. We had tons of these disks and it was all about shareware or freeware.
A lot of good stuff that came on those disks. I also had Amiga Format (i remember a interview there with Bullfrog about powermonger i believe).
You know, i loved CLI. It wasn't dos, it was a communication window with your computer.
The best program and useful (i still did not find anything remotly to it today) was snoopdos. A little tiny program that showed you exactly what a program was doing. Opening something, writing data etc...
Very useful.
And my all time favorite Cygnus Ed. Oh man, such good programs. It was the time where even Electronic Arts was a pretty innovative company with their Deluxe Paint. Loved it.

SysInfo (http://www.classicamiga.com/content/view/5014/62/) was another great tool for ferreting out what its name indicates. Strangely the fellow who wrote that was called Nic Wilson, (same last name as Andrew J Wilson, the fellow that designed & built the wonderful - I owned one :) - Phoenix replacement motherboard for the A1000 (http://users.picknowl.com.au/~sirius/phoenix.htm) in Adelaide South Oz, whilst the other Wilson boy - the programming wizard - was from Brisbane in QLD Oz, if I remember correctly) no relative.

CygnusEd has also remained my favourite text editor, if only it was available to us on multiple platforms. I use the Deluxe Paint box with the gold Ancient Egyptian head design on it to keep a pile of business cards in. :)

[Edit:] I just had look on the web, & CygnusEd is still being developed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CygnusEd). The most recent release was ver. 5, in 2007, it runs on AmigaOS 4, & supports PowerPC CPUs natively.

[yester64]

Just want to add this link. It amazes me ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fF1OYaobPA

[handy]

After reading Jeremy Reimer's Amiga History articles (which refreshed my memory some) & then reading the reviews on AmigaOS 4, & AmigaOS 4.1, I really have the hots for getting myself back into a wonderful modern day AmigaOS.

Hopefully the forthcoming (is scheduled for launch this weekend in Britain) AmigaOne X1000, is not priced beyond my reach. If I can manage it, I'm going to have to get me one of these things.

[Swagman]

Video from yesterdays Amiga Event at Bletchley Park

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZdsUU193oo

Trevor Dickinson (Boss of A-Eon) talking about the new X1000

Part 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EaSN3IuZII&feature=digest

[Swagman]

Good res "Fanboy Vid" from Bletchley Park

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xukdgNMPyXY

[Khakilang]

I still remember Commodore Amiga, Commodore 64 and Commodore 128. It pack quite a lot of game and useful software it was selling like hot cakes. Fortunately for me I was working for a company that distribute Commodore range of computer. That is where I got hook into computer. But after that all I see was MS DOS and Windows to this days. Hope Amiga will emerge again and give users an alternative to Windows and Apple.

[handy]

I still remember Commodore Amiga, Commodore 64 and Commodore 128. It pack quite a lot of game and useful software it was selling like hot cakes. Fortunately for me I was working for a company that distribute Commodore range of computer. That is where I got hook into computer. But after that all I see was MS DOS and Windows to this days. Hope Amiga will emerge again and give users an alternative to Windows and Apple.

The major guy doing the presentation for the Amiga X1000 in the above linked videos, when pressed for a price had to say that as yet they don't know. But he said that it is a specialised machine that will only be produced in small numbers, so the price will be above 1500- pounds GB, which equals approx' $2500- Oz. Which is not out of the ballpark price wise, but it is not going to win over many new converts.

The cheaper PPC equipped machines being produced would be better for people that don't want to spend as much money. But you really need to be an Amiga nut to buy even one of those, as they are also expensive for the hardware you get. But if you want to run AmigaOS 4.1, you have little choice other than buy a machine that the system supports.

The only way I see the Amiga truly gaining in popularity again would be if Hyperion make the AmigaOS compatible with the Intel & associated CPUs. Which is expected to happen in years to come.

[yester64]

Great links :)
yes, it looks like it will be quite expensive. But i don't think there will be a big run for it really.
Like Dickinson said in the interview, it will be mostly old users who really like new hardware. With big pockets.

I was thinking a while back to get a SAM board. That enables one at least to run Amiga OS 4.1 nicely.
Specs are of course not on par with whats out of the market, but i am not sure if it can be compared to the rest anyway.
The good thing is, you won't catch a virus on that machine since its so niche, its even smaller than linux. :)

[yester64]

Good res "Fanboy Vid" from Bletchley Park

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xukdgNMPyXY

Thanks for the info. If i just had the money... it my dream now. :)

Were these voice from the time the song was made? I need to check this site more often to see if there is some news to it.
I really have high hopes for it, since it is the first serious attempt to market a machine like that for over 15 years.
Perhaps this time there is a mission behind and funds. Hope it works out, i really do.

[handy]

Even on not top of the range CPUs, the AmigaOS should be really fast, due to its design. On the X1000, it should be blisteringly fast.

I expect that it would cost around $3000- Oz (depending on the exchange rate) to actually get one of the things including transport.

In days gone by that was the kind of money you paid for a vastly inferior set of hardware with windows on it.

How quickly we forget. :)

[Spr0k3t]

Ah yes... the Amiga. At one point in time, it was the pinnacle of graphics processing and the best personal gaming computer you could get. I too hope that one day the components of the AmigaOS will be converted to the x86 platform. I still remember the days in the lab where we cryofroze the 68K processor and clocked it at 998Mhz. That sucker rendered lightwave scenes for at least five minutes before the motherboard fried. At the time the latest greatest offering from intel was a 486-50 DX2.

[handy]

Ah yes... the Amiga. At one point in time, it was the pinnacle of graphics processing and the best personal gaming computer you could get. I too hope that one day the components of the AmigaOS will be converted to the x86 platform. I still remember the days in the lab where we cryofroze the 68K processor and clocked it at 998Mhz. That sucker rendered lightwave scenes for at least five minutes before the motherboard fried. At the time the latest greatest offering from intel was a 486-50 DX2.

I like the way you bench test Spr0k3t. :D

[BuffaloX]

Ah yes... the Amiga. At one point in time, it was the pinnacle of graphics processing and the best personal gaming computer you could get. I too hope that one day the components of the AmigaOS will be converted to the x86 platform. I still remember the days in the lab where we cryofroze the 68K processor and clocked it at 998Mhz. That sucker rendered lightwave scenes for at least five minutes before the motherboard fried. At the time the latest greatest offering from intel was a 486-50 DX2.

The fastest 68000 was 16 maybe 20 Mhz, both internal and external timing would collapse completely long before 998 Mhz. I suspect you mean 99.8 Mhz which would also be quite extreme, a 5 time OC would be comparable to running a modern CPU at about 15 GHhz, and I think the current record is only about 8 GHhz.

[Swagman]

http://www2.b3ta.com/heyhey16k/

and...

Every O/s sux (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2514730680283477734#)