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Sporkman
June 8th, 2010, 07:48 PM
Americans Sleepier Than Europeans

livescience.com Tue Jun 8, 11:20 am ET

If you feel yourself nodding off during a meeting today, rest assured that you're not the only one. Nearly one in five Americans who participated in a recent study reported falling asleep or being drowsy in situations that required a high level of concentration, such as during meetings or conversations.

And excessive sleepiness is more common in the U.S. than in Europe, the study found. This raises concerns for public health and safety, according to research that will be presented today at the annual meeting of the Associated Professional Sleep Societies LLC in San Antonio, Texas...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/20100608/sc_livescience/americanssleepierthaneuropeans

betrunkenaffe
June 8th, 2010, 07:50 PM
Don't Europeans get more sleep on average than Americans? Pretty sure this just proves that physically, we're all the same.

Sporkman
June 8th, 2010, 07:52 PM
Don't Europeans get more sleep on average than Americans? Pretty sure this just proves that physically, we're all the same.

Give our weight problem here in the US as well, there are probably higher rates of sleep apnea.

doas777
June 8th, 2010, 07:54 PM
in business management and international communications classes I've taken, we're taught that americans are very focused on "Time is Money!", emphasizing productivity, whereas Europeans are more focused on the interpersonal attributes of time (building/maintaining relationships) and the quality of the work.

personally i would love to see a siesta catch on in the us. I could use a nap after lunch. or perhaps just Tea time. that would be cool. I do like scones.

JDShu
June 8th, 2010, 08:09 PM
in business management and international communications classes I've taken, we're taught that americans are very focused on "Time is Money!", emphasizing productivity, whereas Europeans are more focused on the interpersonal attributes of time (building/maintaining relationships) and the quality of the work.


I remember listening to a radio program about automobile production in the 80s, when American factories had a rule which was NEVER stop the assembly line even if quality or safety suffered. On the other hand, the Japanese companies did not have such a rigid rule and focused on how workers could contribute to improving and innovating production techniques.

Sporkman
June 8th, 2010, 08:17 PM
I remember listening to a radio program about automobile production in the 80s, when American factories had a rule which was NEVER stop the assembly line even if quality or safety suffered. On the other hand, the Japanese companies did not have such a rigid rule and focused on how workers could contribute to improving and innovating production techniques.

That was a long time ago - American business have since adopted many of those Japanese-style management techniques.

Now, we have few factories. :)

sydbat
June 8th, 2010, 08:26 PM
I think it might have more to do with the "work hard, not smart" mentality of US companies. Those US companies that have offices here, are like this. They expect you to work 10 - 14 hour days, with working at home on top of it. No wonder people in the US are tired.

Canadian companies tend to use the "work smart, not hard" idea. By doing this, work is expected to be done in a 8 - 9 hour day, and not to be taken home (unless extremely urgent, but it really can wait until tomorrow)...we also get more sleep than Americans. And our economy is better. You do the math.

RiceMonster
June 8th, 2010, 08:28 PM
Canadian companies tend to use the "work smart, not hard" idea. By doing this, work is expected to be done in a 8 - 9 hour day, and not to be taken home (unless extremely urgent, but it really can wait until tomorrow)...we also get more sleep than Americans. And our economy is better. You do the math.

Flex hours are common too, and they're great! I work 8 hours a day, and I got to decide what time in the morning I show up each day. This way, I can get in nice and early (I prefer that), and start work right away.

Tristam Green
June 8th, 2010, 08:30 PM
I think it might have more to do with the "work hard, not smart" mentality of US companies. Those US companies that have offices here, are like this. They expect you to work 10 - 14 hour days, with working at home on top of it. No wonder people in the US are tired.

Canadian companies tend to use the "work smart, not hard" idea. By doing this, work is expected to be done in a 8 - 9 hour day, and not to be taken home (unless extremely urgent, but it really can wait until tomorrow)...we also get more sleep than Americans. And our economy is better. You do the math.

Yes, we get it. You think Canada is better than everyone.

betrunkenaffe was right in this thread. Europeans generally get more sleep than we (US-citizens) do. From what I understand, German businesses close well before sundown. There are far too many 24-hour businesses in the US.

Frogs Hair
June 8th, 2010, 08:31 PM
Even when studies show that worker productivity declines after 10 hours many companies are changing to 12 hour shifts to keep the machines running with fewer people. Having worked 12 hour shifts I can say that this is true . I had much more energy and liked that job much more when we had three eight hour shifts.

LowSky
June 8th, 2010, 08:37 PM
Americans work longer hours, and usually with less time off. I'm yawning right now as I type this. I also go to school after work and then have to drive about an hour home each night. So a normal 8 hour (not including my lunch break) work day plus 2-3 hours of school and two hours of driving is a pretty long day.

doas777
June 8th, 2010, 08:42 PM
Even when studies show that worker productivity declines after 10 hours many companies are changing to 12 hour shifts to keep the machines running with fewer people. Having worked 12 hour shifts I can say that this is true . I had much more energy and liked that job much more when we had three eight hour shifts.
some of the limitations are that of law or insurance policy as well. my employer explored working 4 10's instead of 5 8's, but in the end, that would knock most of our employees out of the insurance companies definition of "full time" which changes plan options.
a few years ago, the us president was pushing to have overtime law changed to allow 80 h over 2 weeks rather than 40 over 1, so that plants could work people 16 hour shifts to meet deadlines without having to pay any overtime. luckily that proposal never got off the ground.

sydbat
June 8th, 2010, 08:43 PM
Flex hours are common too, and they're great! I work 8 hours a day, and I got to decide what time in the morning I show up each day. This way, I can get in nice and early (I prefer that), and start work right away.Yup. Flexing is awesome.


Yes, we get it. You think Canada is better than everyone.

betrunkenaffe was right in this thread. Europeans generally get more sleep than we (US-citizens) do. From what I understand, German businesses close well before sundown. There are far too many 24-hour businesses in the US.No, I was not saying Canadians are better than Americans. I was saying that US businesses have unrealistic expectation of their employees.

And you are correct, in many European countries, work starts about the same time as here (8am-ish), but ends at 3 or 4 in the afternoon.

Tristam Green
June 8th, 2010, 08:47 PM
Very well sydbat, I apologize.

Flex hours are awesome, also.

sydbat
June 8th, 2010, 08:52 PM
Very well sydbat, I apologize.

Flex hours are awesome, also.No need to apologize. No offence was taken. We just had a misunderstanding that was easily cleared up with clear. concise communication. Now if we could only get the rest of the world to do the same...

Sporkman
June 8th, 2010, 08:54 PM
Now if we could only get the rest of the world to do the same...

I'm too sleepy for that.

doas777
June 8th, 2010, 08:55 PM
Flex hours are awesome, also.

I wish ours were more flexy. we get a half-hour sliding window, that with luck, compensates for normal traffic variations.

seanelly
June 8th, 2010, 08:57 PM
Yup. Flexing is awesome.

No, I was not saying Canadians are better than Americans. I was saying that US businesses have unrealistic expectation of their employees.

And you are correct, in many European countries, work starts about the same time as here (8am-ish), but ends at 3 or 4 in the afternoon.
While I personally agree with limiting the time you work for someone else, when you say that things are different in Canada, expecially Alberta, I have to call partial BS. Lots of people head off to the rigs, work 12-16 hour days for a few weeks before getting their mini-vacation. Many construction sites work a 10 on 4 off 10.5 hour days, many mills run a 4 on 4 off 12 hour day, and many offices push the monday to friday routine from early evening dismissals to you better be here until 9pm and prove your worth. Yes, on average I believe Americans work more hours than most countries, but don't kid yourself into thinking that the work less play more mentality of yourself carries over to the large multinational companies that often run the show. My personal favourite shift was three 12 hour days and a four day weekend every week. In university, I'll work "excessive" hours, but i'm my own boss. 50+ swing shifts suck no matter how much money you're making. This summer I'm working 9 hours a week at excessive wages. :D

sydbat
June 8th, 2010, 09:07 PM
While I personally agree with limiting the time you work for someone else, when you say that things are different in Canada, expecially Alberta, I have to call partial BS. Lots of people head off to the rigs, work 12-16 hour days for a few weeks before getting their mini-vacation. Many construction sites work a 10 on 4 off 10.5 hour days, many mills run a 4 on 4 off 12 hour day, and many offices push the monday to friday routine from early evening dismissals to you better be here until 9pm and prove your worth. Yes, on average I believe Americans work more hours than most countries, but don't kid yourself into thinking that the work less play more mentality of yourself carries over to the large multinational companies that often run the show. My personal favourite shift was three 12 hour days and a four day weekend every week. In university, I'll work "excessive" hours, but i'm my own boss. 50+ swing shifts suck no matter how much money you're making. This summer I'm working 9 hours a week at excessive wages. :DAhhh...the loophole. Forgot about that.

In Alberta, if you sign a contract that basically says you are at the mercy of your employer (for hours worked, no overtime, etc), that contract supersedes Alberta labour law. Messed up, ain't it?

However, it is normally those particular industries mentioned in the quote where the employers try to get you to sign their contracts as much as possible. Of course if you refuse to sign, they will find some other sucker who will.

For the rest of businesses that do not get (trick?) you to sign a contract, they have to follow the labour laws.

alphaniner
June 8th, 2010, 09:09 PM
Ah yes... how terrible that a voluntary contract between employer and employee trumps the involuntary contracts of government legistation.

handy
June 9th, 2010, 01:34 AM
The average diet of people in the US is dreadful, most especially in the cities.

Fast fat food makes it harder for all of our biological processes & in general such a diet builds disseases that catch up with us as the years go by.

Caffien is not a solution to this problem, far from it as a quick search on the net will prove.

Breambutt
June 9th, 2010, 01:38 AM
I could never even think of having bacon and eggs or something along these lines for breakfast, the mere thought of it makes me barf. Grease, fat and sugar spikes make you lazy, tired and sleepy after a while, have an oatmeal instead. Apparently a "fat breakfast" doesn't necessarily make you any more fat than an oatmeal, but I'm willing to bet it has a lot to do with how you will feel for the rest of the day.

ubunterooster
June 9th, 2010, 02:18 AM
6hr sleep w/ Oats or grits every morn + Quart of joe. It works till supper when I often do more work till at least 9.

Caff is a good short term solution; SLEEP is a good long term one.

TheNerdAL
June 9th, 2010, 02:26 AM
Americans sure love their turkey.

handy
June 9th, 2010, 02:29 AM
Caff is a good short term solution; SLEEP is a good long term one.

Caffeine is a natural pesticide, which is highly addictive to humans.

It is highly acid, a nephrotoxin (it slowly poisons the kidneys), causes a large variety of psychological disorders apart from those that are physical.

Anyone truly interested (usually not the caffeine addict) can easily find out a great deal about caffeine by doing a quick search.

The common attitude, especially in the States, would be to not question the merits of caffeine as it is so well entrenched into that society.

WinterMadness
June 9th, 2010, 02:34 AM
ive been working since 7 am (got up at 5:30, its now 9:34 pm) and i wont be done until 11 oclock tonight, and this happens several times a week.

Gotta love this here free market...! -sigh-

Breambutt
June 9th, 2010, 02:35 AM
I confess to being a caffeine addict even though I've always known it's some sort of crap the coffee plant uses to keep bugs away, not to mention the physical side effects. But you know, I think we should have a sip of toxins every day so we won't die as soon as some dishwashing liquid spills up our nostrils.

It doesn't really keep me awake and that's not why I have it, usually I drink one mug of coffee in the time it takes most people to gulp down 3 mugs. It's a relaxant and a cure for insomnia for me, I keep falling asleep with coffee in my mug and my Mocca Master.

It's not all bad though. Keeps the bowels movin' and butt a-poopin' on a healthy basis for some people and also helps keeping you less flabby around the waist as long as drinking coffee and eating pizza isn't all that you do.

WinterMadness
June 9th, 2010, 02:38 AM
Ah yes... how terrible that a voluntary contract between employer and employee trumps the involuntary contracts of government legistation.

a begger is not a chooser

if we are required to work or starve we can be exploited, and many people might call it "voluntary" because the person chose their master.

ubunterooster
June 9th, 2010, 02:40 AM
I've had my fair share of overdosing on caffeine and know the poison it is. But if it keeps you from dying from sleep deprivation I'm "up for that"

seanelly
June 9th, 2010, 02:40 AM
I could never even think of having bacon and eggs or something along these lines for breakfast, the mere thought of it makes me barf. Grease, fat and sugar spikes make you lazy, tired and sleepy after a while, have an oatmeal instead. Apparently a "fat breakfast" doesn't necessarily make you any more fat than an oatmeal, but I'm willing to bet it has a lot to do with how you will feel for the rest of the day.

I'm going to make a guess that you're either old or you don't exercise much. A healthy amount of fat and protein is essential in the morning to ensure the regulation of blood sugar levels through the day. I think a lot of sleepiness and can be prevented following a good rest by a complete breakfast and healthy snacks between smaller meals.

Breambutt
June 9th, 2010, 02:45 AM
I'm going to make a guess that you're either old or you don't exercise much.
Neither, and I'm going to make a guess that people you find muscular seem fat and flabby to me. There's no one ultimate diet that works the best for everyone, but I was thinking about the average US citizen. I doubt they "exercise much".

ubunterooster
June 9th, 2010, 03:01 AM
LOL, "Average" Americans do not exercise much. (They need more birds to care for)

Timmer1240
June 9th, 2010, 03:14 AM
On saturday and sunday I always take a nap in the afternoon usually 2 hours feels good!Wish I could everyday!

Linuxforall
June 9th, 2010, 03:15 AM
Having lived in both continents my personal observation is that Americans work far harder with longer hours and also indulge in too many activities for no reason. This is whats tiring and stressing them out. Europeans work less hours, take bigger breaks and off days and go out frequently on excursions. Also an average Euro dad or mom is not going through the roof trying to keep up with their kids's schedule of extra curricular activities.

murderslastcrow
June 9th, 2010, 03:23 AM
Open source seems bigger in America, and as we all know, hackers stay up into all hours of the night writing eloquent if/then/else/whiles, data organization, codecs, and kernel drivers. Then again, on average, they might have more developers. XD Yeah, we're all just fat.

I think that America, while being lazy and corner-cutting these days (certainly not everywhere, and I'm personally working to reverse this trend, but there's not much one person can do :\) is generally more work-oriented. So people are always looking to be more productive, even if they aren't more productive, and as such have less time for what they want, so they stay up later thinking about their desires, or trying to fulfill them while losing out on some sleep, therefore becoming sleepier.

There are literally dozens of situations common to American living that could attribute to this.

handy
June 9th, 2010, 03:36 AM
I confess to being a caffeine addict even though I've always known it's some sort of crap the coffee plant uses to keep bugs away, not to mention the physical side effects. But you know, I think we should have a sip of toxins every day so we won't die as soon as some dishwashing liquid spills up our nostrils.

Nothing personal, but that is a pretty weak justification. ;)



It doesn't really keep me awake and that's not why I have it, usually I drink one mug of coffee in the time it takes most people to gulp down 3 mugs. It's a relaxant and a cure for insomnia for me, I keep falling asleep with coffee in my mug and my Mocca Master.

I wonder whether you are suffering from the paradoxical effect of the caffeine stimulant? We had a son who suffered from ADHD & in researching it we found that they give children Ritalin (speed) to slow them down as it has a paradoxical effect on people suffering from ADHD. (We didn't go down that route with him). I've just thrown that out here, the human physiology is way too complex for my understanding... :popcorn:



It's not all bad though. Keeps the bowels movin' and butt a-poopin' on a healthy basis for some people and also helps keeping you less flabby around the waist as long as drinking coffee and eating pizza isn't all that you do.

More justification. :)

ubunterooster
June 9th, 2010, 03:40 AM
Umm..Shouldn't I be in bed instead of watching this thread? This is your fault that I am getting more than the usual 6hr!!

(lol, thanks)

JDShu
June 9th, 2010, 03:49 AM
That was a long time ago - American business have since adopted many of those Japanese-style management techniques.

Now, we have few factories. :)

haha yeah I know, but I think it reflects the kind of attitude American have towards work and I think its still relevant.

Breambutt
June 9th, 2010, 04:21 AM
Having lived in both continents my personal observation is that Americans work far harder with longer hours and also indulge in too many activities for no reason. This is whats tiring and stressing them out. Europeans work less hours, take bigger breaks and off days and go out frequently on excursions.
Yes, well. Europe doesn't equal welfare. I would imagine this holds true in Central Europe for the main part, but some places are rather underdeveloped in that fashion or simply expensive and you can't afford to slack around. I myself was a lot LESS tired when I was working full week with moderate physical strain being part of the job and studying in the evenings, it just keeps you going in a different way.


Nothing personal, but that is a pretty weak justification. ;)

More justification. :)
Man, coffee needs no justification. It's the elixir of the nerd gods. I think it's not even supposed to taste good to the human "sensors" but the addictive side soon takes over. Anyway, I enjoy it like smoking (which I'd never do) and I'll never quit! It's also the perfect excuse to slow down a little for a while.


I wonder whether you are suffering from the paradoxical effect of the caffeine stimulant? We had a son who suffered from ADHD & in researching it we found that they give children Ritalin (speed) to slow them down as it has a paradoxical effect on people suffering from ADHD. (We didn't go down that route with him). I've just thrown that out here, the human physiology is way too complex for my understanding... :popcorn:
Hah, I wouldn't rule out anything. I've been wondering about the AD/HD thing myself lately and even started hearing about it more often when I bring up stuff like this about my routines. I'm also the perfect example of the classic underachiever and concentration problems, always leaving projects unfinished and stacking them parallel.

Guess I should go see a doctor, but I don't trust them as far as Leonidas can throw them. Which is pretty far.

Shining Arcanine
June 9th, 2010, 04:27 AM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/20100608/sc_livescience/americanssleepierthaneuropeans

Should this not be obvious? Americans work harder and longer than Europeans, so it is only reasonable that they be more tired.

seanelly
June 9th, 2010, 04:37 AM
Am I the only one who loves the taste of pure coffee, but not necessarily the stimulating effects? Oh how I yearn for a decent decaf I can drink all day long without turning into a human vibrator.

betrunkenaffe
June 9th, 2010, 04:39 AM
I work 4x10 shifts, Love it. Get a free day off a week and my day is already screwed by having to work (by that I mean I won't be having a very social day outside of work).

I also only sleep 6-8 hours depending on day (more often 6), although I can definitely get more if I desired (I simply don't).

Live in Canada, not US.

Legendary_Bibo
June 9th, 2010, 04:48 AM
Ever try 8-11 hours straight of math tutoring a day? :(
You're talking and thinking at the same time non stop explaining things in so many different ways, and even people who get free tutoring from me (I'm a guy we have our weaknesses) don't have the courtesy to offer food or a drink when at their house. They even eat right in front of me! It's exhausting; mentally.

Backharlow
June 9th, 2010, 05:01 AM
European economy is under a lot of pressure because of China export, so that 1.5 hour nap after lunch in the middle a work day, or the 6 weeks a year wandering around the south of France might come to an end.

I am not a sleepy American. I shoot and edit non-fiction video, freelance, at 4 am if I want. I therefore have an excuse for sleeping all day - it suits me. It doesn't pay well but it is better than being someone's automaton.
I subsist mostly on black coffee, cheap cigarettes and free software.
The problem with overworking though also comes from the fact that we are all told we won't survive without college credentials so we are, all of us, tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt to the government.
That is why I freelance. They can't track me.
They will still probably arrest me eventually for not paying back film school.
America no longer manufactures goods. It manufactures people - visionary people in every field. So, we get drilled in us early on to cultivate a dream, and go on into life with this unflinching commitment to fulfilling that individual dream. So the adult manifestation is a person totally consumed by uncooperative egoism, and somehow, these are the select few we are made to idolize.

johnb820
June 9th, 2010, 05:32 AM
You are not the only one who thinks that Backharlow.

Tristam Green
June 9th, 2010, 02:24 PM
Should this not be obvious? Americans work harder and longer than Europeans, so it is only reasonable that they be more tired.

I wouldn't say we work harder, but we sure as hell do work longer.

whiskeylover
June 9th, 2010, 03:09 PM
I wouldn't say we work harder, but we sure as hell do work longer.

Not even close... as compared to the working hours of, say, an IT professional in Asia.

handy
June 9th, 2010, 03:46 PM
Chauvinism has so many ways to manifest itself.

One race, one people, one world.

All problems are ultimately shared.

We will become extinct or we will survive.

Whilst ever we keep trying to find any way that we possibly can to avoid acknowledging the fact of our unity, we are exhibiting the truth of our fear of death.

madjr
June 9th, 2010, 05:49 PM
ha! wimpy amerikans

if you guys feel le tired, you should see how much people work at Foxconn to bring you your i/phones/pads/cars/toilets/andwhateverjobscomesupwithnextstartingwithi. for less than minimum wage :)

they literally worktodeath

Xorp21
June 9th, 2010, 07:59 PM
Love all the stereotypes in this thread *cough. Americans work harder than Europeans, longer (on average) sure but harder? In other words Europeans are lazy...


European economy is under a lot of pressure because of China export, so that 1.5 hour nap after lunch in the middle of a work day, or the 6 weeks a year wandering around the south of France might come to an end.

1.5 hour naps and wandering 6 weeks around the south of France? Come on that's complete BS.

I'd rather have this thread closed, threads with ignorant Americans bashing Europeans and vice versa can be found everywhere on the internet, this thread is heading that way.

handy
June 9th, 2010, 08:04 PM
For those that are learning about (observing) chauvinism, this is a good thread to analyse.

Tristam Green
June 9th, 2010, 08:12 PM
Love all the stereotypes in this thread *cough. Americans work harder than Europeans, longer (on average) sure but harder? In other words Europeans are lazy...

I believe I said "Americans on average work longer, but not necessarily harder, than Europeans."

I'm curious to see your examples of ignorance.

cchhrriiss121212
June 9th, 2010, 08:30 PM
I believe I said "Americans on average work longer, but not necessarily harder, than Europeans."

I'm curious to see your examples of ignorance.

It is ignorant in the way that the article and comments have lumped together the entire continent of Europe (thats 27 different countries) into a single generalised workforce. Working attitudes and conditions vary hugely from one place and industry to the next. Hopefully I don't need to explain that German bakers and bankers in London do not take siestas after their lunch.

ubunterooster
June 9th, 2010, 08:34 PM
It's a learned obsession of always be doing "something" even if that somethinbg is worthless; we are in a "go! go! go!" society

Jay Car
June 9th, 2010, 08:38 PM
z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z(snore)z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z(mumble)z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z-zzzzzzz-z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z...









.

Frak
June 9th, 2010, 10:07 PM
Ever since Reagan helped destroy the Unions, worker's have become "at-will" and are expected to work until they die for the company. It's not hard to imagine that many people work under high amounts of stress because they have no representation to protect them. Take that stress and you get: obesity, sleep apnea, insomnia, stressful relationships, and various kinds of disease.

Legendary_Bibo
June 10th, 2010, 12:20 AM
Ever since Reagan helped destroy the Unions, worker's have become "at-will" and are expected to work until they die for the company. It's not hard to imagine that many people work under high amounts of stress because they have no representation to protect them. Take that stress and you get: obesity, sleep apnea, insomnia, stressful relationships, and various kinds of disease.
I would like to point out that keeping your body healthy and fit isn't taught very well in America. I keep seeing the school system wanting to remove recess so the kids can work more. When they do get recess, they're completely babied. A lot of Americans are made soft from childhood to do unquestionable bidding, and they become ignorant about having a healthy lifestyle. My family comes from Germany, and my grandfather still kept a healthy and active lifestyle where he did hard manual labor for 8 hours a day, and still ran with my dad. My dad was the same way, and even in his fifties he exercises after a 10 hour workday. I'm expected to do the same thing. Americans are taught to have an unhealthy lifestyle pretty much. By doing so it causes all these problems.

Frak
June 10th, 2010, 12:29 AM
I would like to point out that keeping your body healthy and fit isn't taught very well in America. I keep seeing the school system wanting to remove recess so the kids can work more. When they do get recess, they're completely babied. A lot of Americans are made soft from childhood to do unquestionable bidding, and they become ignorant about having a healthy lifestyle. My family comes from Germany, and my grandfather still kept a healthy and active lifestyle where he did hard manual labor for 8 hours a day, and still ran with my dad. My dad was the same way, and even in his fifties he exercises after a 10 hour workday. I'm expected to do the same thing. Americans are taught to have an unhealthy lifestyle pretty much. By doing so it causes all these problems.
That reminds me of eating the cafeteria. I don't think it was ever healthy (may have changed since then, but I doubt it.)

But, yeah, you're basically taught to work harder, appear smart, and whatever you do, don't be a naysayer, don't question the information you receive and put 110% of effort into whatever you're told to do, whether or not it's the best course of action or the possible consequences.

Also, the last time I took physical education was fourth grade, and that was a loooong time ago. PE and Sports were not required, so 90% of the school never took physical education beyond that.

Legendary_Bibo
June 10th, 2010, 12:39 AM
That reminds me of eating the cafeteria. I don't think it was ever healthy (may have changed since then, but I doubt it.)

But, yeah, you're basically taught to work harder, appear smart, and whatever you do, don't be a naysayer, don't question the information you receive and put 110% of effort into whatever you're told to do, whether or not it's the best course of action or the possible consequences.

Also, the last time I took physical education was fourth grade, and that was a loooong time ago. PE and Sports were not required, so 90% of the school never took physical education beyond that.

About the cafeteria food. I think they're still serving the food from the 70's. It's re-re-re-re-re-reheated process meat, vegetables, and whatever else was in there. They even dirty up the salads with processed meat or salad dressing made out of pickle juice. At least that's how it was at my school. It's healthier to just starve through the day than eat that crap.

Frak
June 10th, 2010, 12:46 AM
About the cafeteria food. I think they're still serving the food from the 70's. It's re-re-re-re-re-reheated process meat, vegetables, and whatever else was in there. They even dirty up the salads with processed meat or salad dressing made out of pickle juice. At least that's how it was at my school. It's healthier to just starve through the day than eat that crap.
That's how they make it healthy, of course, you look at it and decide that a human should never ingest such filth.

JDShu
June 10th, 2010, 01:18 AM
Also, the last time I took physical education was fourth grade, and that was a loooong time ago. PE and Sports were not required, so 90% of the school never took physical education beyond that.

I think most American high schools have a fitness requirement. Some number of pushups, situps, etc.

Frak
June 10th, 2010, 01:24 AM
I think most American high schools have a fitness requirement. Some number of pushups, situps, etc.
I worked at a High School until recently as an IT Technician. I can tell you now that there was no fitness requirement. As well, I've only heard of a few select schools that practice fitness requirements.

JDShu
June 10th, 2010, 01:47 AM
I worked at a High School until recently as an IT Technician. I can tell you now that there was no fitness requirement. As well, I've only heard of a few select schools that practice fitness requirements.

I stand corrected then haha. The schools around where I live as well as the ones I saw in NY all had requirements. Seemed like the norm to me.

Legendary_Bibo
June 10th, 2010, 01:51 AM
I stand corrected then haha. The schools around where I live as well as the ones I saw in NY all had requirements. Seemed like the norm to me.
yeah at my highschool you had to take one physical education course to pass.

Backharlow
June 10th, 2010, 03:56 AM
Love all the stereotypes in this thread *cough. Americans work harder than Europeans, longer (on average) sure but harder? In other words Europeans are lazy...



1.5 hour naps and wandering 6 weeks around the south of France? Come on that's complete BS.

I'd rather have this thread closed, threads with ignorant Americans bashing Europeans and vice versa can be found everywhere on the internet, this thread is heading that way.

This was a generalization and I apologize.

chessnerd
June 10th, 2010, 04:10 AM
The new study involved a sample of 8,937 people aged 18 or over living in Texas, New York and California

Texas, New York, and California are not at all representative of the United States as a whole. All this study shows is that people in those three states are sleepier. This is just a sensationalist story.

I will admit that even I, living in Michigan, don't get enough sleep, but my sister almost always does. I'm not representative of everyone in Michigan.

Seriously, I don't think it's that bad, and neither does LiveScience.com (http://www.livescience.com/health/090401-top5-sleep-facts-1.html) -


For most of us, sleep deprivation is a myth. We're not zombies. The non-profit National Sleep Foundation (which takes money from the sleep-aid industry, including drug companies that make sleeping pills) says the average U.S. resident gets 7 hours a night and that's not enough, but a University of Maryland study earlier this year shows we typically get 8 hours and are doing fine. In fact, Americans get just as much sleep nowadays as they did 40 years ago, the study found.

Khakilang
June 10th, 2010, 06:43 AM
Japan is the land of the rising sun thus they have shorter night. That is why the Japanese works longer hour than the American and European.

km6xz
June 10th, 2010, 09:59 AM
I am an American who has always been self employed and saw the gradual decrease in time off, vacation time and increase in total work hours. I've also lived in other countries, now living in St Petersburg Russia for the past 7 years.
It is said that Americans, as a generality, feel guilty for taking time off, even vacation time they earned so vacations are getting shorter and shorter by the decade. Fewer than 20% have passports and that includes the millions of people who were not born in the US.
The sleeping duration and soundness of people in Europe and here in Western Russia is very different than in the US, where insomnia (and depression) are the number one and two causes of seeking medical attention.
My friends all fall asleep instantly when tired, sleep for 8-12 hours and wake with energy.
I find that the stress level of living in the US is higher than any of the 86 countries I've visited. I really do not think the culture is currently very conducive to good mental or physical health. I visit back to California a few times a year and have noticed fewer really obese people than, say, 5 years ago, but still far from the norm of trimness 40 years ago. Fat children were almost unheard of when I was in grade school,
Going to the gym a couple times a week is no substitute for living an active "manual" life where the car is used for even trips that would be better done on foot. Spurts of physical activity a couple times a week only builds appetite. I find that the average 25 year old in Western Europe or Russia are in better physical condition and a lot slimmer than Americans of the same age generally. The young women are sure a lot slimmer without a doubt. It is strange, waists have disappeared even on teens, there is a thickness that just does not fit nicely cut clothing.
On my recent visits back to the US I do notice more people who are slimmer on both coasts but in the South and Mid West the fatness trend continues.
Just some observations.....

Louisraritan
June 10th, 2010, 10:00 AM
Know this is idealistic impractical but we should start and international protest against working on weekends. Imagine how cool it would be for everyone to be off at the same time for family and friends. I lived in a small town once where all the businesses worked on Bankers hours, took some getting used to without being able to shop, eat out etc. Over time though, I found out that there were plenty of other things to do and inconvenience was avoided by planning better during the week.

Tristam Green
June 10th, 2010, 12:37 PM
I think most American high schools have a fitness requirement. Some number of pushups, situps, etc.


yeah at my highschool you had to take one physical education course to pass.

Bibo took the words out of my mouth.

ubunterooster
June 10th, 2010, 12:41 PM
Bibo took the words out of my mouth.
Seriously, how much did you spend preparing for that test? I have asthma and am by no means a runner but still kill the PE recommendations.

Tristam Green
June 10th, 2010, 12:54 PM
Seriously, how much did you spend preparing for that test? I have asthma and am by no means a runner but still kill the PE recommendations.

what?

ubunterooster
June 10th, 2010, 01:07 PM
I meant that in fitness requirements, how challenging are they really?

Tristam Green
June 10th, 2010, 01:30 PM
Oh. PE class in high school was a cakewalk. I think we actually did line-dancing in it if I remember correctly.

doas777
June 11th, 2010, 06:00 PM
Oh. PE class in high school was a cakewalk. I think we actually did line-dancing in it if I remember correctly.
archery. not much of a workout, but lots of fun, and a practical skill once the zomb-pocalypse hits. beats the heck out of climbing a rope...

sydbat
June 11th, 2010, 06:29 PM
Oh. PE class in high school was a cakewalk. I think we actually did line-dancing in it if I remember correctly.We had square dancing. They actually let us play floor hockey for awhile, until one of the girls hurt a boy (checked him too hard into a wall) and the gym teachers figured it was too dangerous for the girls. I'm not kidding.

yester64
June 12th, 2010, 10:20 PM
Yes, we get it. You think Canada is better than everyone.

betrunkenaffe was right in this thread. Europeans generally get more sleep than we (US-citizens) do. From what I understand, German businesses close well before sundown. There are far too many 24-hour businesses in the US.

Not sure to what do you refer, but in retail (if is that) german retailers do close ealier. It changed also somewhat.
10 years ago 6:30 pm was the deathline. Now some are open till 9pm.
To be honest, i can not see why stores have to be open 24h. Consumerism is above anything else here in the US.
Retailer don't care about their people working for them at all.
Thats why the pay is like a kick in the face.
Stores are closed on holidays, since everyone should enjoy the holiday. In the US not.
Other businesses are the same as anywhere in the world.

One thing i read but can not confirm is, that in germany you can say to your boss that the idea he has is ****. In the US, as i read, it is supposedly not well received to question the boss.

But americans do work more of any western nation but get less benefits. In the end people here don't sleep as much since they have to worry most of the time.

Thats just an assumption and i have no proof to any of it anyway.

NMFTM
June 12th, 2010, 11:56 PM
german retailers do close ealier. It changed also somewhat.
10 years ago 6:30 pm was the deathline. Now some are open till 9pm.
To be honest, i can not see why stores have to be open 24h. Consumerism is above anything else here in the US.
Retailer don't care about their people working for them at all.
As someone who is both under 21 years of age and lives in the suburbs. I have to say that I really like the idea that some stores (like Walmart) are open 24 hours. I wish it was more widespread. If I'm really bored when it's late at night, Walmart is pretty much the only place I can go to get out of the house and do something. And even that's not terribly exciting. But if your with other people and everyone is tired of sitting around the house by the time it's late but doesn't want to go to bed, it's really the only thing to do.

If I was in need of a minimum wage job, a store that was open 24 hours would be one of the first places I'd drop my application. I'd rather work late night / early morning than during normal hours. After your done with work you have the entire day to do whatever you want while most normal people are at work, which means less traffic and lines. Plus, you can choose whether you want to sleep as soon as you get home from work or right before you go in.

One thing i read but can not confirm is, that in germany you can say to your boss that the idea he has is ****. In the US, as i read, it is supposedly not well received to question the boss.
Do you mean there are more legal protections for workers to be able to question their boss and not risk getting fired or not promoted. Or is it a cultural difference where bosses are more open to being criticized and taking it well?

yester64
June 13th, 2010, 12:43 AM
As someone who is both under 21 years of age and lives in the suburbs. I have to say that I really like the idea that some stores (like Walmart) are open 24 hours. I wish it was more widespread. If I'm really bored when it's late at night, Walmart is pretty much the only place I can go to get out of the house and do something. And even that's not terribly exciting. But if your with other people and everyone is tired of sitting around the house by the time it's late but doesn't want to go to bed, it's really the only thing to do.

If I was in need of a minimum wage job, a store that was open 24 hours would be one of the first places I'd drop my application. I'd rather work late night / early morning than during normal hours. After your done with work you have the entire day to do whatever you want while most normal people are at work, which means less traffic and lines. Plus, you can choose whether you want to sleep as soon as you get home from work or right before you go in.

Do you mean there are more legal protections for workers to be able to question their boss and not risk getting fired or not promoted. Or is it a cultural difference where bosses are more open to being criticized and taking it well?

The difference is, that europeans learn a trade. Everything over there is about trade learning.
Over time, like in the US, it is more about to cut the jobskills down to the point that you don't need skills anymore and therefore get paid little to nothing.

To your second, it was meant at the management level in regards of business decision.