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proggy
June 8th, 2010, 07:24 AM
it had to happen http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znxQOPFg2mo
`i`m just glad i got to see it

Dr. C
June 8th, 2010, 07:43 AM
The best part is how he fixes the problem by asking everyone in the audience to turn off the their Wifi devices since this iPhone apparently gets confused by the multiple wireless signals. Seriously.

BoneKracker
June 8th, 2010, 07:55 AM
The best part is how he fixes the problem by asking everyone in the audience to turn off the their Wifi devices since this iPhone apparently gets confused by the multiple wireless signals. Seriously.

In all fairness, I think that's a bit of a misrepresentation.

It wasn't that it "got confused by multiple wireless signals"; it was that it couldn't handle being in the presence of 573 different wireless base stations.

Still, it's not like that is an unforeseeable requirement; I imagine the same thing could happen at any sporting or entertainment event.

Reminds of back when Bill Gates got a BSOD during a demo he was giving personally.

Bachstelze
June 8th, 2010, 08:03 AM
it had to happen http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znxQOPFg2mo
`i`m just glad i got to see it

When people will stop being "glad" to see the misfortune of others, this world will be a better place.

wilee-nilee
June 8th, 2010, 08:05 AM
When people will stop being "glad" to see the misfortune of others, this world will be a better place.

This.

rajeev1204
June 8th, 2010, 08:05 AM
When people will stop being "glad" to see the misfortune of others, this world will be a better place.


I agree with this statement .









rajeev

BoneKracker
June 8th, 2010, 08:09 AM
When people will stop being "glad" to see the misfortune of others, this world will be a better place.

But TV and Internet news would collapse! Think of the jobs! (no pun intended)

Legendary_Bibo
June 8th, 2010, 08:11 AM
I don't think you've had multiple devices on a single wireless access point have you? If there were about 500 on all the access points at a time I can see there being issues. Also who's to say this was the completed model. It looks like a cool little doodad, but it's not for me still.

lostinxlation
June 8th, 2010, 08:12 AM
The best part is how he fixes the problem by asking everyone in the audience to turn off the their Wifi devices since this iPhone apparently gets confused by the multiple wireless signals. Seriously.
It's not confusing. Just being congested.
the same thing can happen at land line too. If you call some area that the disaster hit, you would have a hard time to connect because so many people call in worrying about their relatives.

Dr. C
June 8th, 2010, 08:15 AM
It is 2010 not 1984.

Try using using this device in any downtown location in a major city and you will find well over 500 persons in wireless range using some kind of wireless device.

Here is the real question will this thing work to dial 911 from the middle of the Microsoft campus in Redmond WA for example? Or would you rather have an Android or other Linux phone to dial 911 from that location?

lostinxlation
June 8th, 2010, 08:19 AM
I don't think you've had multiple devices on a single wireless access point have you? If there were about 500 on all the access points at a time I can see there being issues. Also who's to say this was the completed model. It looks like a cool little doodad, but it's not for me still.
I'm pretty sure wifi accesses are multiplexed and multiple accesses share the same resouces(TDM, FDM, CDMA, WDM etc).

fremantle
June 8th, 2010, 08:20 AM
WannaBeiDev (http://www.youtube.com/user/WannaBeiDev)
5 hours ago

http://s.ytimg.com/yt/img/pixel-vfl73.gif

microsoft wants to dominate you
apple wants to control you
google want to buy you

<thts going in my sig>

McRat
June 8th, 2010, 08:23 AM
A) It's pretty funny.

B) Now Jobs knows what AT&T service feels like to his customers.

C) Few things in life suck worse that doing a software demo before an audience and having problems. Software can smell fear. That was big crowd for a live demo.

He handled it pretty well.

gnomeuser
June 8th, 2010, 08:26 AM
What one has to remember, like with the priceless Windows 98 USB plug and play BSOD demo Microsoft so famously experienced is that this demo has been tested perhaps a hundred times. Failing on stage is a sign that the device is highly complex and that software always will have bugs. Dan Klein does an excellent talk on this, I believe it is called something like Flying Linux. I saw it at a LinuxForum keynote, regardless Dan is awesome everyone should listen to his stuff.

Still it is just a little tiny bit funny that the king of impressive demos, the Turtleneck himself, also has this problem occasionally. Murphy is an equal opportunity bastard.

Any idea where I can go to see the rest of the keynote, I'd like to know what the competition is up to, outside of the unfortunate mishap.

proggy
June 8th, 2010, 08:26 AM
When people will stop being "glad" to see the misfortune of others, this world will be a better place.
When someone stops trying to rule the world like Steve Jobs this world will be a better place.
You need to laugh a little , Jobs laughed ,come now jeeez.

wilee-nilee
June 8th, 2010, 08:33 AM
When someone stops trying to rule the world like Steve Jobs this world will be a better place.
You need to laugh a little , Jobs laughed ,come now jeeez.

I hadn't heard he was trying to rule the world that's a new one.

bruno9779
June 8th, 2010, 08:34 AM
I don't think you've had multiple devices on a single wireless access point have you? If there were about 500 on all the access points at a time I can see there being issues. Also who's to say this was the completed model. It looks like a cool little doodad, but it's not for me still.

A conference wifi setup with 1 access point only?
I'd expected a company that claims to be at the forefront of IT technology to have an at least half decent network.

There are access controllers that handle 1000s of simultaneous users. Add a distribution switch and a bunch of cheap access points and off you go.

Putting up a vlan to have reserved bandwidth and ensure the demo goes well, was easily done, if looked into.

If Apple overlooks details like these, who knows what else they may have overlookd. So not impressed.

betrunkenaffe
June 8th, 2010, 08:34 AM
When someone stops trying to rule the world like Steve Jobs this world will be a better place.
You need to laugh a little , Jobs laughed ,come now jeeez.

I agree, some people take things too seriously...

It's actually quite sad that it took 30 minutes for everyone to not comply and shut off their laptops...

I'm a little surprised that they didn't have a dedicated wifi set up for the iphone to run on to avoid the congestion issues.

Legendary_Bibo
June 8th, 2010, 08:35 AM
I hadn't heard he was trying to rule the world that's a new one.

Your computer owns your world, it controls you. Didn't you pay attention in the matrix class.

v1ad
June 8th, 2010, 08:41 AM
i laughed my head off.

for 1, what steve jobs does to developers, and his ipad, iphone users i lost all respect for him. so i enjoyed even more.

powerpleb
June 8th, 2010, 08:43 AM
When people will stop being "glad" to see the misfortune of others, this world will be a better place.

Oh come on! Its not like the phone exploded in his face, horribly deforming him for life, and we're all malevolently s******ing at it.

It was just a little, slightly embarrassing, technical stuff up. Even the audience was laughing. Honestly, I think it is good to see that Steve Jobs encounters the odd infuriating bug or error, just like the rest of us.

Spare us your didactics.

wilee-nilee
June 8th, 2010, 08:44 AM
Your computer owns your world, it controls you. Didn't you pay attention in the matrix class.

I wondered what that snapping sound was my synapses in synaptic.

Legendary_Bibo
June 8th, 2010, 08:45 AM
i laughed my head off.

for 1, what steve jobs does to developers, and his ipad, iphone users i lost all respect for him. so i enjoyed even more.

You should see the lives of the people who work in the manufacturing factories.

Rasa1111
June 8th, 2010, 09:01 AM
"It's real!~"........."especially when people turn their wi-fi stuff off" :lol:
imagine that.

Dixon Bainbridge
June 8th, 2010, 09:17 AM
When people will stop being "glad" to see the misfortune of others, this world will be a better place.

I can always make an exception for Jobs.

TwoEars
June 8th, 2010, 09:17 AM
When people will stop being "glad" to see the misfortune of others, this world will be a better place.


Get over yourself.

wilee-nilee
June 8th, 2010, 09:19 AM
Nothing like group think to feel validated.

NightwishFan
June 8th, 2010, 09:23 AM
Hooray for validation? Well anyway, glad the demo went better than it could have.

gnomeuser
June 8th, 2010, 09:28 AM
On a different note, video chat that is wifi only is his "one last thing". The Nokia 800 did that in 2007 and I know my old phone company 3.dk launched with phones capable of doing that over 3G back in 2003/2004.

I'm fairly unimpressed at what Apple calls progress.

BoneKracker
June 8th, 2010, 09:45 AM
On a different note, video chat that is wifi only is his "one last thing". The Nokia 800 did that in 2007 and I know my old phone company 3.dk launched with phones capable of doing that over 3G back in 2003/2004.

I'm fairly unimpressed at what Apple calls progress.

The technology has been around forever. It's the network (here in the backward U.S.A. anway) that's not ready for it. iPhones are already bringing AT&T Wireless' network to its knees.

madnessjack
June 8th, 2010, 09:54 AM
When people will stop being "glad" to see the misfortune of others, this world will be a better place.
Erm, It's Steve Jobs. He deserves it. (Look-up 'karma')

kamaboko
June 8th, 2010, 10:00 AM
I was expecting to hear..."This is spectacular. It's amazing. This is truly revolutionary".

KiwiNZ
June 8th, 2010, 10:05 AM
If I did a public demo of Ubuntu 10.04 the Keyboard would not work, the Wireless would not connect, the USB Flash drive would not be recognized .......

That would look great on you tube.

wilee-nilee
June 8th, 2010, 10:07 AM
If I did a public demo of Ubuntu 10.04 the Keyboard would not work, the Wireless would not connect, the USB Flash drive would not be recognized .......

That would look great on you tube.

You will have to team up with V.;)

rajeev1204
June 8th, 2010, 10:08 AM
I too have had issues when iam giving a demo of Ubuntu and things didnt work quite as i would want to.


Luckily not many created videos on youtube saying 'ubuntu fail' even though it is software and will fail at some point .Anyways its no where near the BSOD demo of Bill Gates.


"Look everyone, windows does effective BSOD's" :D

KiwiNZ
June 8th, 2010, 10:10 AM
Erm, It's Steve Jobs. He deserves it. (Look-up 'karma')

Nonsense!

zekopeko
June 8th, 2010, 10:14 AM
it had to happen http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znxQOPFg2mo
`i`m just glad i got to see it

...and that is way you suck at being a decent human being.

JDShu
June 8th, 2010, 10:15 AM
If I did a public demo of Ubuntu 10.04 the Keyboard would not work, the Wireless would not connect, the USB Flash drive would not be recognized .......

That would look great on you tube.

Aha! But then you wouldn't be Steve Jobs delivering a keynote.

NightwishFan
June 8th, 2010, 10:15 AM
You are doing the same thing.

JDShu
June 8th, 2010, 10:19 AM
If Mark Shuttleworth was presenting Ubuntu and it failed, then yes, it would be the same thing. A random user presenting their computer failing on youtube, probably isn't.

BoneKracker
June 8th, 2010, 10:28 AM
If Mark Shuttleworth was presenting Ubuntu and it failed, then yes, it would be the same thing. A random user presenting their computer failing on youtube, probably isn't.

Not quite. My 75-year-old Windows-using mother knows who Steve Jobs is, but I'm pretty sure she's never heard of Mark Shuttleworth.

Johnsie
June 8th, 2010, 10:31 AM
So wi-fi or 3g wont work if there are alot of people around?

NightwishFan
June 8th, 2010, 10:32 AM
I never heard of Steve Jobs until I started using Linux.

BoneKracker
June 8th, 2010, 10:35 AM
I never heard of Steve Jobs until I started using Linux.

Are you from France?

lostinxlation
June 8th, 2010, 10:36 AM
It is 2010 not 1984.

Try using using this device in any downtown location in a major city and you will find well over 500 persons in wireless range using some kind of wireless device.

You do know wifi doesn't go long range, right ?
And how many % of people always carry wifi device ?

Be realistic.

JDShu
June 8th, 2010, 10:43 AM
Not quite. My 75-year-old Windows-using mother knows who Steve Jobs is, but I'm pretty sure she's never heard of Mark Shuttleworth.

Indeed, fair enough. It would be less impact if that happened.

zekopeko
June 8th, 2010, 10:44 AM
So wi-fi or 3g wont work if there are alot of people around?

If there are a lot of people using them then yes.

BoneKracker
June 8th, 2010, 10:45 AM
Are they doing peer-to-peer ad-hoc networking? Is that the problem?

bruno9779
June 8th, 2010, 11:19 AM
Many here do not want to let slip the chance of bashing Steve Jobs (quite understandable), but the point is another.

Setting up a decent wifi LAN for a wifi-device demo, should be a must.

This is a shot in a leg for a company that claims to be the the "premium" of the industry.
They can't even set up a LAN, I wonder if their products are really worth what they cost.

Johnsie
June 8th, 2010, 11:20 AM
They problem is the guy, not the phone :-p

I'm glad to see one of these arrogant speeches fail

whiskeylover
June 8th, 2010, 11:35 AM
B) Now Jobs knows what AT&T service feels like to his customers.


It was WIFI. It had nothing to do with AT&T.

Johnsie
June 8th, 2010, 12:07 PM
It failed with both Wi-Fi and with AT&T at different times during the presentation

pwnst*r
June 8th, 2010, 01:06 PM
When people will stop being "glad" to see the misfortune of others, this world will be a better place.

^This.

Also, it was a network issue, not an iPhone issue. Nice device though, but it doesn't trump my Evo.

mihai.ile
June 8th, 2010, 02:37 PM
it had to happen http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znxQOPFg2mo
`i`m just glad i got to see it

this type of attitude is really a shame, my opinion.
As somebody else said I also think that:
"When people will stop being "glad" to see the misfortune of others, this world will be a better place."

whiskeylover
June 8th, 2010, 02:40 PM
this type of attitude is really a shame, my opinion.
As somebody else said I also think that:
"When people will stop being "glad" to see the misfortune of others, this world will be a better place."

A lot of people who're saying this, will actually dance in the streets if MS went bankrupt.

Breambutt
June 8th, 2010, 02:40 PM
This is not the misfortune of an individual, it's the misfortune of capitalism and a corporation who make more than a living by manipulating stupid sheep.

Surely you can appreciate the comical value without being sinister when you see a funny faceplant.

pwnst*r
June 8th, 2010, 02:47 PM
This is not the misfortune of an individual, it's the misfortune of capitalism and a corporation who make more than a living by manipulating stupid sheep.

Surely you can appreciate the comical value without being sinister when you see a funny faceplant.

Your location info is a bit disturbing, Mr. Butt.

Breambutt
June 8th, 2010, 02:48 PM
Your location info is a bit disturbing, Mr. Butt.
I like to change my info on a daily basis. This nickname didn't really allow for a themed About Me information as I usually like my profiles.

It's supposed to mean I'm a troll or a boogeyman, nothing more deviant.

rottentree
June 8th, 2010, 02:52 PM
This is not the misfortune of an individual, it's the misfortune of capitalism and a corporation who make more than a living by manipulating stupid sheep.

Surely you can appreciate the comical value without being sinister when you see a funny faceplant.

I can't see how you pried this information from this thread.

Oh and if they are stupid sheep then manipulating them is actually giving them a purpose other than baa!-ing around :P

jrothwell97
June 8th, 2010, 02:55 PM
On a different note, video chat that is wifi only is his "one last thing". The Nokia 800 did that in 2007 and I know my old phone company 3.dk launched with phones capable of doing that over 3G back in 2003/2004.

I'm fairly unimpressed at what Apple calls progress.

<boring pedant> It's actually a little different to that: in this case, it seems the video and audio streams are independent of each other (being carried across different networks, in this case) so you can activate and deactivate video entirely mid-call, and if one goes out the other will stay up. True, it requires Wi-Fi, but this should be a bit more reliable than "normal" 3G video calling. (I still don't think it will catch on, though.) </pedant>

Anyway, it's a slightly entertaining ****-up, no question there, but keynote failures are nothing new (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnVUvW42CUA). IIRC, at the original iPhone keynote the presentation clicker stopped working so he had to get someone else to change the slide backstage for him.

Dixon Bainbridge
June 8th, 2010, 02:55 PM
Another successful thread about Apple. Go team.

Ozor Mox
June 8th, 2010, 02:59 PM
Some people are chuckling at a technical mishap during a demo Steve Jobs was doing? Baaaawwwww, everyone stop being mean to him, he gets paid ridiculous amounts to do such demos but you might hurt his feelings. "The world would be a better place", give me a break.

Mr. Picklesworth
June 8th, 2010, 03:25 PM
On a different note, video chat that is wifi only is his "one last thing". The Nokia 800 did that in 2007 and I know my old phone company 3.dk launched with phones capable of doing that over 3G back in 2003/2004.

I'm fairly unimpressed at what Apple calls progress.

They touted it being an open standard, as well. Uses H264 and a bunch of other standards, and they want to push it through an international standards body. Besides the fact that H264 is hardly an open standard, my thought was: that's cool and all, but don't we already have a million VOIP standards? Jingle works, and if I remember right it's supported by iChat, could be supported by Google Talk, and it's fairly solid and extensible at this point.

I'm sure they have a good reason that I just haven't heard, so I'll shut up. Those Apple guys are smart; just a little disagreeable at times :)
(And for me, that irritation mostly springs from their marketing people who have built a brand around taking credit for everything).

MCVenom
June 8th, 2010, 03:31 PM
What's with the white knights? :P

Steve Jobs is human. He makes mistakes too, and he has bad luck. Life goes on.

You're acting like we're laughing at the phone tearing his face off or something... You need to realize he's human, like us guys... Giggling at one mistake he made doesn't mean we're crucifying him. :P

KiwiNZ, you of all people should recognize that; and if you did a demo of Ubuntu on unsupported hardware, I'd laugh at you too. :lolflag:

MCVenom
June 8th, 2010, 03:35 PM
'Open standard'

Uses patented, closed source H.264 codec

:roll:

McRat
June 8th, 2010, 03:46 PM
It was WIFI. It had nothing to do with AT&T.

You can tell that by the Rainbow.

When it's on AT&T 3G, there is a 3G symbol.

Where he was, San Jose area has 4G available. Just not from AT&T.

Using a WiFi connection to demonstrate a feature that most people would want to be able to use on 3G, was kind of iffy anyhow.

The comment was supposed to be humor, but it seems this is mostly a Humor-Free Zone.



What's bizarre is that it actually IS funny. How do I know?

YOU HEAR THE PEOPLE IN THE ROOM LAUGHING.

sydbat
June 8th, 2010, 04:05 PM
Product demos with technology never go right...well, maybe not never, but you know what I mean...

I have been asked by many people to show them Ubuntu, whether on my own box or via a LiveCD/USB. Often, things just don't go the way you want or expect. This is what happens when you want to show something off.

The only problem I had with the video was Jobs making everyone in the audience the bad guy. "This never freezes up, so you guys haven't turned off all your wifi". And he does this a couple of times. To me, that is ignorant. Blaming others for a failure that just happens in many technology demos is not cool.

I also wonder what will happen for people buying this phone when they try to use it in a real life situation. As mentioned earlier, in any major city core, thousands of people are accessing wifi and cell at any given time. So, in order to use the video chat, you would have to ask the city to stop what they are doing so you can video chat with your friends?

proggy
June 8th, 2010, 05:09 PM
this type of attitude is really a shame, my opinion.
As somebody else said I also think that:
"When people will stop being "glad" to see the misfortune of others, this world will be a better place."
Steve Jobs misfortune?"
According to Forbes, Jobs was recently worth $3.3 billion which puts him among the 194th richest man in the world and makes him the 67th richest american. But the standings were shuffled with Disney's $7.4 billion acquisition of Pixar Animation -- a deal that makes Jobs' Pixar holdings alone worth some $3.7 billion."quote WIRED MAGAZINE
Look we are laughing at a product , we aren`t laughing at someone geting run over by a bus!

TheNerdAL
June 8th, 2010, 05:10 PM
I wouldn't blame Steve Jobs for the reason the iPhone failed to connect to the internet. Maybe 3G is bad inside using AT&T. :)

zekopeko
June 8th, 2010, 07:24 PM
I wouldn't blame Steve Jobs for the reason the iPhone failed to connect to the internet. Maybe 3G is bad inside using AT&T. :)

Perhaps if you actually looked at video you would see that he is using WiFi and asking people to stop using WiFi. The iPhone was connected to the internet but the WiFi network was simply congested.

McRat
June 8th, 2010, 07:26 PM
Perhaps if you actually looked at video you would see that he is using WiFi and asking people to stop using WiFi.

The AT&T thingy was a joke. Humor as some call it.

iPhone 4 will not video-conference on 3G. It's been disabled at the request of AT&T?

TheNerdAL
June 8th, 2010, 07:33 PM
The AT&T thingy was a joke. Humor as some call it.

iPhone 4 will not video-conference on 3G. It's been disabled at the request of AT&T?

He said they are still working on 3G.

McRat
June 8th, 2010, 07:34 PM
Video phone schemes have been unsuccessful in the past due to the requirement that both systems must be the same.

While the iPhone is popular, I can't see it getting market saturation unless it becomes a true open, multi-platform standard and permits 3G/4G calls.

Now, if some company comes out with a hardware independent application that runs on all three brands of smart phones, then it will be a winner. I'm not sure Apple can do that, or Microsoft. Most likely it will come from Google or a new player to the field.

My guess is software patents will stop it.

McRat
June 8th, 2010, 07:35 PM
He said they are still working on 3G.


Any data that can be sent WiFi can be sent 3G, the software doesn't know the difference. "Working on" probably means financial negotiations.

shrimpy89
June 8th, 2010, 07:38 PM
"Scott? Got any suggestions?"

"...Verizon!"

Brilliant.

whiskeylover
June 8th, 2010, 07:40 PM
Someone should club the "Can you hear me now?" guy on the head.

McRat
June 8th, 2010, 07:43 PM
What bites, is that this tech was in play 10 years ago.

Even with the non-3G bandwidth.

It's just a frame rate and resolution issue. If you can't go full-action video, you have a series of still pictures.

But, the #1 issue with 3G is not max download speed. It's upload speed and latency (response time), which is critical for VOIP/video conferencing.

I'm in a Max 3G area on the AT&T map with a iPhone 3Gs. Let's see, it's about noon in Southern California. A time when a lot of people use phones:

McRat
June 8th, 2010, 07:49 PM
First Speedtest.NET:

All test, max (4 bar) signal, db unknown.

Latency 5239 ms (five seconds)
Download 46kbps
Upload 54kbps

7772msec (eight seconds)
253kbps
63kbps

Now, standing outside, looking at the tower with an unobstructed view. Tower is about 500 feet away. It's on our lot.

6370
308
212

Tonight, these numbers usually fall to about 1000msec, 1700/600. Sometimes it will hit 2.2mbps down and 700 up, but rarely.

It's just not enough bandwidth to pull it off. No circuitry will fix that.

PS- You could not carry on a conversation with over 5 seconds latency. Nearly impossible.

TheNerdAL
June 8th, 2010, 07:57 PM
Wow, Apple has their own Character.  :D Beat that Microsoft!

McRat
June 8th, 2010, 08:04 PM
Now, for those who are morbidly curious about how much bandwidth you CAN get from wireless technology.

I have a 5.8ghz transmitter three miles away hooked to a cable modem. I will push Speedtest.net through it at the same time.

Latency (through 5 steps of routing on LAN, linux-based cable-modem, linux-based firewall, linux-based 5.8 WDS, linux-based 5.8 WDS, Netgear Pro switch -> me)

12ms
30,520 kbps (30.52mbps) down
2,020 kbps (2.02mbps) up

So wireless technology is just getting started with the cell phones. They can turn them up pretty high if they want.

splicerr
June 9th, 2010, 01:53 AM
Ha, that was pretty funny. But I guess for the Apple fanboys out here, maybe not so :smile:

NightwishFan
June 9th, 2010, 02:25 AM
That was not too bad. He held himself pretty well after a major issue like that.

toupeiro
June 9th, 2010, 02:55 AM
He definitely took it in stride. Not many people could handle that.

But, I do think he is getting just a little too full of himself by sort of implying apple is pioneering the video call. On mobile phones, I'm pretty sure Nokia did this, and IP video call has been around for years! Even on mobile, it is available today via skype mobile on the android platform. but yes, I get it, iphone.. its .. magical... if everyone turns off their wifi :P

murderslastcrow
June 9th, 2010, 04:19 AM
Lol, you've gotta' appreciate his attitude, though. :3 You've gotta' admit, unless you're using Debian or Android stable versions, occasionally things just don't turn out the way you want them. This might just have been one of those occasions where things just didn't sort out as they'd planned. Why not do some beta testing on stage, eh?

I'm glad that we're looking to higher quality vendors these days, of which open source is a large contributor. Hopefully within the next 20 years this technology will become pretty solid and the new features will mainly be optimizations, rather than just trying to hack out a new driver or file format for use.

Frak
June 9th, 2010, 05:54 AM
Thanks for posting that. I like Jobs, he has a good personality. Instead of getting frustrated, he just turned it into a joke. I had a good laugh.

BoneKracker
June 9th, 2010, 06:06 AM
"Scott? Got any suggestions?"

"...Verizon!"

Brilliant.

What I liked was when he said, "What the f***?", under his breath.

amitabhishek
June 9th, 2010, 06:47 AM
Mr. Jobs would have probably smirked had it been Google's conference.

YoungQuiz
June 9th, 2010, 08:34 AM
Your location info is a bit disturbing, Mr. Butt.

:lolflag:

Khakilang
June 9th, 2010, 10:49 AM
I remember Bill Gates face the same situation when he demo Window 98 and it crash.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9jOi_Jd2dQ

:lolflag:

Johnsie
June 9th, 2010, 10:51 AM
I don't think he handled the situation well at all... He started blaming everyone else and then started trying to control everyone in the audience. When he was talking down to the audience he seemed to forget that they weren't his Apple 'yes men' so it was funny to watch him wriggle and squirm. It's called Karma.

Apple is the great IT company that cannot even set up a wireless lan and blames everyone else when they screw up

zekopeko
June 9th, 2010, 11:21 AM
I don't think he handled the situation well at all... He started blaming everyone else and then started trying to control everyone in the audience. When he was talking down to the audience he seemed to forget that they weren't his Apple 'yes men' so it was funny to watch him wriggle and squirm. It's called Karma.

Apple is the great IT company that cannot even set up a wireless lan and blames everyone else when they screw up

I love how you act as if Apple could have done something in that situation except ask people to turn off wi-fi connections.

Here's some reading material for you:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wi-Fi#Channel_pollution


Wi-Fi pollution, or an excessive number of access points in the area, especially on the same or neighboring channel, can prevent access and interfere with other devices' use of other access points, caused by overlapping channels in the 802.11g/b spectrum, as well as with decreased signal-to-noise ratio (SNR) between access points. This can become a problem in high-density areas, such as large apartment complexes or office buildings with many Wi-Fi access points.

wkhasintha
June 9th, 2010, 01:52 PM
When people will stop being "glad" to see the misfortune of others, this world will be a better place.

amen to that

MCVenom
June 9th, 2010, 02:51 PM
I don't think he handled the situation well at all... He started blaming everyone else and then started trying to control everyone in the audience. When he was talking down to the audience he seemed to forget that they weren't his Apple 'yes men' so it was funny to watch him wriggle and squirm. It's called Karma.

Apple is the great IT company that cannot even set up a wireless lan and blames everyone else when they screw up
Come on... I may hate Steve as much as the next guy, but he's a pretty cool guy in front of an audience. It wasn't an unreasonable request and he wasn't *blaming* them per se.

Dragonbite
June 9th, 2010, 03:32 PM
When people will stop being "glad" to see the misfortune of others, this world will be a better place.

Maybe, but on the plus side it is nice to know that Apple/Jobs is not infallible and are indeed (built by) human. Like me.

To see the real person, you need to see them when they are not prepared, for then there is no script to follow.

sydbat
June 9th, 2010, 04:44 PM
I don't think he handled the situation well at all... He started blaming everyone else and then started trying to control everyone in the audience. When he was talking down to the audience he seemed to forget that they weren't his Apple 'yes men' so it was funny to watch him wriggle and squirm. It's called Karma.

Apple is the great IT company that cannot even set up a wireless lan and blames everyone else when they screw upI tried bringing this up (post 67), but I was ignored...http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=9430017&postcount=67

zekopeko
June 9th, 2010, 06:39 PM
I tried bringing this up (post 67), but I was ignored...http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=9430017&postcount=67

You were ignored for a reason. They said there were 537 base stations in the room. Now imagine all of them trying to take a chunk of the Wi-Fi spectrum. Your theory would have some merit if the later demos didn't work once they asked people to stop using Wi-Fi.

sydbat
June 9th, 2010, 06:43 PM
You were ignored for a reason. They said there were 537 base stations in the room. Now imagine all of them trying to take a chunk of the Wi-Fi spectrum. Your theory would have some merit if the later demos didn't work once they asked people to stop using Wi-Fi.Even after people shut off their wifi, Jobs still berated/blamed them because the connection was crap. Not the fault of the people in the audience if you ask me.

TheNerdAL
June 9th, 2010, 06:46 PM
Even after people shut off their wifi, Jobs still berated/blamed them because the connection was crap. Not the fault of the people in the audience if you ask me.

We don't know if everyone shut off their WiFi. I mean I think some people live blogging said they weren't gonna do that. But the Engadget site used 3G. :P

whiskeylover
June 9th, 2010, 06:50 PM
So the next time you're in a crowded place and you really want to see that youtube video of LOLCATS on your iPad, just yell out to everyone to switch off their WIFIs.

Frak
June 9th, 2010, 06:54 PM
Even after people shut off their wifi, Jobs still berated/blamed them because the connection was crap. Not the fault of the people in the audience if you ask me.
Not everyone shut off their WiFi devices, I'm sure. Close to the devices, people could connect to their MiFi devices just fine since their signal was stronger than others. Far away, the signals merged to incoherent noise, so when the iPhone/iPod tried to connect to the designated hub, it would have to sift through multitudes of incoherent noise.

Some devices could sift through the noise, but they are very expensive and fairly large.

TheNerdAL
June 9th, 2010, 06:55 PM
So the next time you're in a crowded place and you really want to see that youtube video of LOLCATS on your iPad, just yell out to everyone to switch off their WIFIs.

Or you can use 3G. :)

NightwishFan
June 9th, 2010, 07:24 PM
I am wondering about the long term health effects of all this "wireless". Looking right now at nm-applet, I see about 15 of them, and I am not in a crowded area. So every house nearby must have a network. If thats only 15, imagine being bombarded by hundreds in a single room.

conundrumx
June 9th, 2010, 07:34 PM
I love how you act as if Apple could have done something in that situation except ask people to turn off wi-fi connections.

Here's some reading material for you:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wi-Fi#Channel_pollution

Almost none of the people discussing Job's misfortune seem to understand this, it's rather frustrating. If it had crashed, or done something that was obviously the device it would be worth a good laugh. This is just a case of way too much WiFi in a small space.

As for why he didn't switch to 3G - at least 600 people, most of them with iPhones? Good luck getting anything done over AT&T.

BoneKracker
June 9th, 2010, 07:34 PM
I am wondering about the long term health effects of all this "wireless". Looking right now at nm-applet, I see about 15 of them, and I am not in a crowded area. So every house nearby must have a network. If thats only 15, imagine being bombarded by hundreds in a single room.

You have a point there. But, given that I expose myself just about every day of my life to a radiation source so powerful it turns my skin brown and causes spots to appear, I'm not sure I'm ready to worry too much about this.

whiskeylover
June 9th, 2010, 07:41 PM
You have a point there. But, given that I expose myself just about every day of my life to a radiation source so powerful it turns my skin brown and causes spots to appear, I'm not sure I'm ready to worry too much about this.

Is this you?

http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2007/06/22/Fantastic_070620102721434_wideweb__300x375.jpg

sydbat
June 9th, 2010, 07:41 PM
Almost none of the people discussing Job's misfortune seem to understand this, it's rather frustrating. If it had crashed, or done something that was obviously the device it would be worth a good laugh. This is just a case of way too much WiFi in a small space.

As for why he didn't switch to 3G - at least 600 people, most of them with iPhones? Good luck getting anything done over AT&T.So, basically, it is useless. Can't use wifi if anyone else is on it, can't use a cell line if anyone else is on it. As stated a few times earlier, this is why wireless video phones will never work (OK maybe at some point in the future when wireless technology catches up to wired connectivity speeds).

Regardless, people will line up to buy it and throw out their 6 month old iPhone because it isn't "cool" anymore. What a waste.

McRat
June 9th, 2010, 07:48 PM
Almost none of the people discussing Job's misfortune seem to understand this, it's rather frustrating. If it had crashed, or done something that was obviously the device it would be worth a good laugh. This is just a case of way too much WiFi in a small space.

As for why he didn't switch to 3G - at least 600 people, most of them with iPhones? Good luck getting anything done over AT&T.


The iPhone 4 video conferencing only works in WiFi.

Here's what would not surprise me though, based on my experience with AT&T broadband services. If AT&T was the carrier for the DSL connection that the WiFi for the demo area, and it was business hours, it probably overloaded their capabilities. Seriously. For business owners with AT&T DSL, it's a very common issue.

The joke is there is 4G available there. Just not available on an iPhone. It's faster than most AT&T business DSL.

BoneKracker
June 9th, 2010, 07:52 PM
Is this you?

Yeah, that's me, in the morning before I shower and put on my daily Oil of Olay.

It just occurred to me that I might have made a better choice of words than "expose myself".

sydbat
June 9th, 2010, 08:04 PM
Yeah, that's me, in the morning before I shower and put on my daily Oil of Olay.

It just occurred to me that I might have made a better choice of words than "expose myself".At least you're wearing pants...

Dragonbite
June 9th, 2010, 08:05 PM
You have a point there. But, given that I expose myself just about every day of my life to a radiation source so powerful it turns my skin brown and causes spots to appear, I'm not sure I'm ready to worry too much about this.

That's what you get for being a flasher!

Groucho Marxist
June 9th, 2010, 08:11 PM
it had to happen http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znxQOPFg2mo
`i`m just glad i got to see it

Definitive proof that Apple fails at the Internet.

McRat
June 9th, 2010, 08:19 PM
What really bites:

For the first time in history, there is a company that COULD bring videoconferencing to the portable world. This was a given when I was a child, (**** Tracy had it), but no company could do it except in a very limited environment. The actual technology has been demonstrated for 10 years, and the bandwidth has been available for 5.

It requires cooperation between the different telecommunication companies and hardware makers. But each wants a bigger piece of a fixed pie instead of a bigger pie to cut a piece out of.

Apple seldom demonstrates a desire for bigger pie, something Microsoft worked hard towards (abeit they wanted ALL the pie also). And AT&T has the same "small pie" reputation. This is a bad pairing.

Unless Apple is will to port their videophone technology into free specification with a committee-run association in control of it, it will most likely fail. Apple wants to have the only system that has working videophone technology, or you'd see other companies already announcing support for the Apple spec. It takes years to get everything done, so they would have had to already started telling others years ago.

So the market saturation of devices probably won't support adoption of videophones. But what about the transmission of data itself? Will the Apple system even work with other iPhones? I'd say no.

Ever wonder why so many internet plans are say 10mbps Down, and 1mbps Up? This is due to backhaul. It's easy to transmit a HUGE amount of data outward from a hub, satellite TV is a good example, but it's hard to get 1,000,000 users worth of incoming data from the region.

This is where AT&T does poorly, and why calls get dropped, and pages only half load. They won't spend the money towards backhaul. Even if you are just loading pages, your computer must reply back to keep the connection going. If it doesn't the transmission stops. It does what you see on the video. Progress bar stops 1/2 way. Backhaul is more expensive to supply that transmission, and bandwidth is sold by marketing the transmission rate.

So you've got the world's largest (stock price) computer company unwilling to guarantee the success of the device paired to the largest data distributor who doesn't want to support it.

Not a good marriage.:(

fluteflute
June 9th, 2010, 08:43 PM
I don't know if anyone here is a fan of the "Keyboard Cat" meme but I made "Play Steve Jobs Off, Keynote Cat" : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTzOROXnNZI

lz1dsb
June 9th, 2010, 09:31 PM
I personally enjoyed one of the comments there. It's so true. Steve Jobs make it sound like Apple invented the video call. It's been around for so many years... Not to mention that a form of video call was available to ISDN terminals a long time ago, although it was for sure not very popular...

Cheers,
Boyan

98cwitr
June 9th, 2010, 09:37 PM
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/56/152166797_6a3bf664ac.jpg

conundrumx
June 9th, 2010, 09:38 PM
So, basically, it is useless. Can't use wifi if anyone else is on it, can't use a cell line if anyone else is on it. As stated a few times earlier, this is why wireless video phones will never work (OK maybe at some point in the future when wireless technology catches up to wired connectivity speeds).

Regardless, people will line up to buy it and throw out their 6 month old iPhone because it isn't "cool" anymore. What a waste.

I should have been clearer. Any wireless networking (regardless of the protocols being transmitted) will have difficulty with 570 APs in a confined area all broadcasting. The demo he tried using web sites didn't do very well either. WiFi is very nearly ubiquitous, and I think that (assuming the new iPhone sells as well as its predecessors) this could very well push the world in the direction of having video calls as common as phonecalls in say, the 50's. As for people "throwing out" their previous phone - it's their prerogative. Disposable income is a wonderful thing. I'll be selling my year old 3GS to a friend and shelling out a bit of cash for the new hotness, since it's interesting to me.


The iPhone 4 video conferencing only works in WiFi.

Here's what would not surprise me though, based on my experience with AT&T broadband services. If AT&T was the carrier for the DSL connection that the WiFi for the demo area, and it was business hours, it probably overloaded their capabilities. Seriously. For business owners with AT&T DSL, it's a very common issue.

The joke is there is 4G available there. Just not available on an iPhone. It's faster than most AT&T business DSL.

It's not that Apple had 570 of their own APs installed in the room, and everyone was using their wireless. There were 570 rogue APs - MiFis and the like - brought in by journalists and bloggers broadcasting their own network. If you look at the wikipedia article in the post I quoted you can gain a good deal of insight to what probably happened.

zekopeko
June 9th, 2010, 11:26 PM
I should have been clearer. Any wireless networking (regardless of the protocols being transmitted) will have difficulty with 570 APs in a confined area all broadcasting. The demo he tried using web sites didn't do very well either. WiFi is very nearly ubiquitous, and I think that (assuming the new iPhone sells as well as its predecessors) this could very well push the world in the direction of having video calls as common as phonecalls in say, the 50's. As for people "throwing out" their previous phone - it's their prerogative. Disposable income is a wonderful thing. I'll be selling my year old 3GS to a friend and shelling out a bit of cash for the new hotness, since it's interesting to me.

It's not that Apple had 570 of their own APs installed in the room, and everyone was using their wireless. There were 570 rogue APs - MiFis and the like - brought in by journalists and bloggers broadcasting their own network. If you look at the wikipedia article in the post I quoted you can gain a good deal of insight to what probably happened.

Thank you good sir/ma'm for being one of the sane people in this thread. WiFi has it's limits and it's unreasonable to expect it to work smoothly in such a setting.

sydbat
June 9th, 2010, 11:39 PM
Thank you good sir/ma'm for being one of the sane people in this thread. WiFi has it's limits and it's unreasonable to expect it to work smoothly in such a setting.I get medium performance in the local Starbucks when there are more than 4 others using their laptops, less if more people tap into the wifi. How would this video phone work in this real life situation? A serious question requiring a serious answer.

Stancel
June 9th, 2010, 11:47 PM
To be honest, I experienced horrible wi-fi connection problems when I upgraded to Lucid. Go to the Networking & Wireless forums and you'll find threads about this issue everyday. Jaunty and Karmic worked fine for me, but Lucid did not.

I'm not defending Apple just pointing out Ubuntu isn't perfect for everyone. Lucid is causing wi-fi problems for many people. but obviously it works for many people too. I think it might be because Lucid might not work with some wireless routers...

NightwishFan
June 9th, 2010, 11:56 PM
You are ill informed. Ubuntu follows the upstream development of many projects such as Gnome and the Linux Kernel. It is responsible for it's own changes and decisions on packaging but it does not control what the upstream community does. Sometimes regressions are not found by upstream or Ubuntu on time to prevent release bugs.

If you have an issue with wireless, you should do research on your chipset and find bug reports for Ubuntu and the upstream Linux driver for the device. For example, the ath9k wireless driver in the 2.6.31 kernel was flawed upstream, which was fixed in 2.6.32. Fedora 12 chose to update to the 2.6.32 kernel and Ubuntu solved the issue by making wireless backport drivers available for installation.

I hope this clears things up.

McRat
June 10th, 2010, 12:10 AM
...
It's not that Apple had 570 of their own APs installed in the room, and everyone was using their wireless. There were 570 rogue APs - MiFis and the like - brought in by journalists and bloggers broadcasting their own network. If you look at the wikipedia article in the post I quoted you can gain a good deal of insight to what probably happened.

Maybe. I dunno, I'm not a radio engineer, but here's some trivia:

Many wireless ISP's still use the 2.4 band for client connections because it will punch through walls better than 5.8ghz. There are hundreds of devices on these 2.4 lines. But just like your home router they have the same dB limit. They are no more powerful than a normal home WiFi. I can stick an antenna up and "see" over 100 2.4 devices in a semi-rural area. Even my notebook can see a dozen, and those are the ones with discovery on.

Modern wifi routers/devices will support 5.8, and it's not crowded up there.

But let's assume the i4 can't sing up high. With 802.11a/b/g there are 11 channels without using 5.8.

There was probably a channel with fewer than 25 users, as most devices tend to target 1/6/9/11? I think. And bleeding over between channels isn't a real issue at distances of more than a couple feet.

For a critical connection, I use 5.8 and "marry" the MAC addy on both sides. I'm sure they thought of that.

I'll bet the i4 doesn't support 5.8.

zekopeko
June 10th, 2010, 12:23 AM
I get medium performance in the local Starbucks when there are more than 4 others using their laptops, less if more people tap into the wifi. How would this video phone work in this real life situation? A serious question requiring a serious answer.

What is medium performance? Let me point out that the speed of WiFi at your local Starbucks is probably less of an issue then the internet connection they have. If they have a 2mbit/s internet connection then you can't expect to get good performance even on Wireless N which has a potential bandwidth of 600mbit/s.

The video didn't appear extremely choppy to me. Take into consideration that who know how many wireless base stations have been operating in that room at that time. At one time there were some 573 base stations working in that room. I can't imagine the amount of wireless congestion in that room.

HappinessNow
June 10th, 2010, 12:23 AM
There is about 500 wifi's just picked up from the bedroom in my apartment complex...and I live in a relatively small town.

The comment about the world will be a better place when people stop being happy when someone fails, come on this is the lord of the ultimate evil empire...Steve Jobs deserves this recognition, he earned it! ;-)

zekopeko
June 10th, 2010, 12:30 AM
I'll bet the i4 doesn't support 5.8.

Looks like you're right. From Apple.com:

802.11b/g/n Wi-Fi (802.11n 2.4GHz only)

But Wikipedia does say that WiFi N in that mode has an option of doubling it's data rate if I understood it correctly:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_802.11n-2009#40MHz_in_2.4GHz

That gives it 108mbits if I'm correct. I would wager that Apple could enable 5Ghz range with a future update since at this time there really isn't a need such data rates on a pocket mobile device.

zekopeko
June 10th, 2010, 12:34 AM
There is about 500 wifi's just picked up from the bedroom in my apartment complex...and I live in a relatively small town.

The comment about the world will be a better place when people stop being happy when someone fails, come on this is the lord of the ultimate evil empire...Steve Jobs deserves this recognition, he earned it! ;-)

Jobs isn't forcing anyone to use he's products.

McRat
June 10th, 2010, 01:32 AM
Anyone notice that the i4 had a tether on it? Quite a bit thicker than the USB charger?

Or am I seeing things?

Perhaps they are chaining all the i4's to the table now ...

conundrumx
June 10th, 2010, 02:43 AM
Anyone notice that the i4 had a tether on it? Quite a bit thicker than the USB charger?

Or am I seeing things?

Perhaps they are chaining all the i4's to the table now ...

The smart money is on that being the method they used to put the screen on the projector.

Legendary_Bibo
June 10th, 2010, 02:50 AM
I thought this surely would happen. Gotta love Penny Arcade
http://art.penny-arcade.com/photos/894614536_nnBGS-L.jpg

sydbat
June 10th, 2010, 04:04 AM
What is medium performance? Let me point out that the speed of WiFi at your local Starbucks is probably less of an issue then the internet connection they have. If they have a 2mbit/s internet connection then you can't expect to get good performance even on Wireless N which has a potential bandwidth of 600mbit/s.

The video didn't appear extremely choppy to me. Take into consideration that who know how many wireless base stations have been operating in that room at that time. At one time there were some 573 base stations working in that room. I can't imagine the amount of wireless congestion in that room.This is what Joe Average will get in the real world. Starbucks. Or some other public wifi to tap into. Only IF the user has a dedicated wifi setup would this be viable.

Oh, and "medium performance" means half the speed of the average home wireless network. But you expect it because it is a public network that is being shared by Starbucks patrons and who knows who else in the neighbourhood.

Not understanding that the technology is nowhere near ready for this is unfortunate. Trying to justify Jobs poor behaviour by helping him blame the audience is unbelievable.

steveneddy
June 10th, 2010, 04:55 AM
When people will stop being "glad" to see the misfortune of others, this world will be a better place.

So we can all dance around the camp fire smoking the peace pipe singing "Kum By Yahhh"

OMG - a little butterfly just landed near me - it was so graceful, seeing it's wings go all a flutter when I shot it with a 20 gauge shotgun.

conundrumx
June 10th, 2010, 05:38 AM
Guys, the video calling demo's hiccups were likely unrelated to the speed of the network so much as the wireless congestion in the surrounding area.

It's entirely possible both (or maybe it just was network speeds) contributed to the hiccups, but there's no way to know for sure until we get the devices in people's hands in the real world.

NightwishFan
June 10th, 2010, 05:46 AM
I am no fan of Apple, but doesn't the business rely on relatively flawless products? I think they will work it out.

3rdalbum
June 10th, 2010, 05:52 AM
1. Anybody can do video conferencing over wifi. It's basically the same principle as video conferencing over ISDN. Macintosh System 7's install CD came with a videoconferencing program.

2. Video conferencing over 3G has been accomplished for years now.

3. The iPhone has very weak wifi and cellular hardware; good luck if you're 20 metres from the wireless router or on a cellular network that hasn't boosted its amps.

HappinessNow
June 10th, 2010, 07:31 AM
These people (Apple) can't even create a phone that doesn't constantly drop calls yet much less do video calls seamlessly!...and No it's Not ATT, I have the Nexus One on ATT and never get dropped calls.

Basically the reason why Apple doesn't go to other carriers is they need time to fix this bug, it is easier for people to blame ATT then to come to the realization that they have an Apple phone that isn't good at keeping phone calls connected.

Stancel
June 10th, 2010, 07:35 AM
These people (Apple) can't even create a phone that doesn't constantly drop calls yet much less do video calls seamlessly!...and No it's Not ATT, I have the Nexus One on ATT and never get dropped calls.

Basically the reason why Apple doesn't go to other carriers is they need time to fix this bug, it is easier for people to blame ATT then to come to the realization that they have an Apple phone that isn't good at keeping phone calls connected.

you're right. The video quality was poor. It would have been impressive if the video quality was seamless but it just looked like it was lagging.

Frak
June 10th, 2010, 07:39 AM
These people (Apple) can't even create a phone that doesn't constantly drop calls yet much less do video calls seamlessly!...and No it's Not ATT, I have the Nexus One on ATT and never get dropped calls.

Basically the reason why Apple doesn't go to other carriers is they need time to fix this bug, it is easier for people to blame ATT then to come to the realization that they have an Apple phone that isn't good at keeping phone calls connected.
This is BS. I owned an iPhone for about two years and only got a dropped call maybe twice. That's not just me, that goes with everybody I know, people I don't even know but I know have iPhones, and 90% of the 20 million customers that own an iPhone.

I have a Nexus One now on the same carrier, and I have the same problems I had before, just different hardware.

HappinessNow
June 10th, 2010, 07:40 AM
you're right. The video quality was poor. It would have been impressive if the video quality was seamless but it just looked like it was lagging.Apple was too much in a rush playing catch up to the HTC EVO to work out the bugs in the Alpha quality video software.

HappinessNow
June 10th, 2010, 07:42 AM
This is BS. I owned an iPhone for about two years and only got a dropped call maybe twice. That's not just me, that goes with everybody I know, people I don't even know but I know have iPhones, and 90% of the 20 million customers that own an iPhone.

I have a Nexus One now on the same carrier, and I have the same problems I had before, just different hardware.Talk to iPhone users in San Francisco and on the West Coast in general and you might get a completely different picture; perhaps they are the 10% you spoke of?

Frak
June 10th, 2010, 07:44 AM
Apple was too much in a rush playing catch up to the HTC EVO to work out the bugs in the Alpha quality video software.
I bet you it uses the same codec that iChat uses for video conferencing. Also, I know some people that have been able to hold and use an iPhone 4, and from what I've heard is that the video conferencing was just fine, which just signals the noise in the room was too loud for the phone to sift though (the WiFi hardware isn't too powerful on the iPhone).

Frak
June 10th, 2010, 07:44 AM
Talk to iPhone users in San Francisco and on the West Coast in general and you might get a completely different picture; perhaps they are the 10% you spoke of?
Cherry picked cases. I live in Oklahoma and it works fine. What does that mean? AT&T has regional issues.

Johnsie
June 10th, 2010, 10:27 AM
Does anyone really believe that there were 570 wi-fi access points turned on?

pwnst*r
June 10th, 2010, 01:25 PM
These people (Apple) can't even create a phone that doesn't constantly drop calls yet much less do video calls seamlessly!...and No it's Not ATT, I have the Nexus One on ATT and never get dropped calls.

Basically the reason why Apple doesn't go to other carriers is they need time to fix this bug, it is easier for people to blame ATT then to come to the realization that they have an Apple phone that isn't good at keeping phone calls connected.

Rubbish.

I've been an iPhone user since 3G was launched, no issues like that, 3rd state too.

zekopeko
June 10th, 2010, 02:17 PM
Does anyone really believe that there were 570 wi-fi access points turned on?

That room is really big. There where plenty of people with laptops there of which a large number where most likely journalists and or bloggers.
Jobs did say that the majority of those devices where Mi-Fis which is a standalone access point with 3G from Verizon.

3rdalbum
June 10th, 2010, 02:17 PM
Does anyone really believe that there were 570 wi-fi access points turned on?

I don't believe it. Computers and iPhones don't generally work as APs, only as receivers (with, presumably, no network connected).

And most people with mobile broadband only have the USB dongle type, not the type that creates a wifi connection. They are more expensive so you'd have to really have a particular reason to own one of those.

NCLI
June 10th, 2010, 02:24 PM
I don't believe it. Computers and iPhones don't generally work as APs, only as receivers (with, presumably, no network connected).

And most people with mobile broadband only have the USB dongle type, not the type that creates a wifi connection. They are more expensive so you'd have to really have a particular reason to own one of those.

They're all ultra-geeks, of course they have the most awesome type ;)

98cwitr
June 10th, 2010, 02:55 PM
Well let's be honest, it really wasn't the iPhone failure...it was the wifi protocols that wouldnt allow syn/ack with that much traffic. Could have happened to any wifi device.

conundrumx
June 10th, 2010, 03:16 PM
I don't believe it. Computers and iPhones don't generally work as APs, only as receivers (with, presumably, no network connected).

And most people with mobile broadband only have the USB dongle type, not the type that creates a wifi connection. They are more expensive so you'd have to really have a particular reason to own one of those.

MiFis are $30 (plus service, of course) on Verizon and well worth the cost.

Frak
June 10th, 2010, 04:41 PM
I don't believe it. Computers and iPhones don't generally work as APs, only as receivers (with, presumably, no network connected).

And most people with mobile broadband only have the USB dongle type, not the type that creates a wifi connection. They are more expensive so you'd have to really have a particular reason to own one of those.
I have a MiFi; they're cheap and I can connect five devices too it without the need for special 3G hookups for each of them. They're extremely economical.

limestone
June 10th, 2010, 04:45 PM
Thats bad luck^^

sydbat
June 10th, 2010, 04:50 PM
Cherry picked cases. I live in Oklahoma and it works fine. What does that mean? AT&T has regional issues.It is possible. Talk to Telus customers here in Canada (I am one) and you will find that often, depending on where you are, service sucks...or is near perfect. And that can be within just a few kilometres of each other. I have also heard Bell has similar issues. Same with Rogers. So again, it is possible.

Frak
June 10th, 2010, 04:58 PM
It is possible. Talk to Telus customers here in Canada (I am one) and you will find that often, depending on where you are, service sucks...or is near perfect. And that can be within just a few kilometres of each other. I have also heard Bell has similar issues. Same with Rogers. So again, it is possible.
Yeah, where I live we're under BellSouth-AT&T, which was reliable even before the merger. When AT&T merged with all these derivatives of them, they didn't really fix much of the issues I've noticed.

McRat
June 10th, 2010, 05:33 PM
Love my iPhone.

If you go into an Apple store right now, and say My Service Bites, they will repeat:

"Yes, but AT&T is spending billions right now upgrading their system."