Xandros Insurance?

[McRat]

I was looking at various distros in the Ubuntu family and I ended up at the Xandros site, and found this:


Now you have the option to acquire Xandros Server offerings together with
Microsoft patent assurance. This assurance enables you to use Xandros Server
software with confidence. This program is available for $100. Learn more by
reading Microsoft's covenant.

Is this a shakedown? Are they saying they have violated MS patents but themselves are protected from litigation, but YOU aren't? The "protection" is $50 for the desktop version.

[Spr0k3t]

I think you can count on one hand the number of commercial users of Xandros.

BTW, you are violating my copyright by using words in your signature. You must pay me $10 to be sure I won't ever sue you for using words. ;-)

[cariboo]

Various parts of Xandros are closed source, I was on the beta team for the first release, I still have the non-disclosure agreement I had to sign to become a member of the team. If I remember right, the updater/installer was one of the big ones. They do have close ties with Microsoft.

One of these days I'll have to dig out my Xandros V1.0 cd to see how it works on modern hardware. BTW Xandros is based on Debian, not Ubuntu

[Murrquan]

If you look at the offerings in the Canonical Store, they promise IP protection to anyone who buys their support offerings. IIRC.

In their case, I believe they're basically offering to take the fall in case of a frivolous lawsuit.

[McRat]

If you look at the offerings in the Canonical Store, they promise IP protection to anyone who buys their support offerings. IIRC.

In their case, I believe they're basically offering to take the fall in case of a frivolous lawsuit.


I have had the displeasure of contact with the Microsoft Legal Dept. The rule of law isn't practiced well there. I'm a very small business with an excellent reputation for honesty. They took part in stealing $25,000 from us. Not them directly, they just assisted their vendor in doing it. It's just part of their business model. They can either do good engineering, or they can buy lawyers. Either way is fine with them.

[Ric_NYC]

I was looking at various distros in the Ubuntu family and I ended up at the Xandros site, and found this:


Now you have the option to acquire Xandros Server offerings together with
Microsoft patent assurance. This assurance enables you to use Xandros Server
software with confidence. This program is available for $100. Learn more by
reading Microsoft's covenant.

Is this a shakedown? Are they saying they have violated MS patents but themselves are protected from litigation, but YOU aren't? The "protection" is $50 for the desktop version.

Something like the Mafia "protection"...
:)

[Ric_NYC]

Believe me... You don't need Xandros.

[McRat]

Something like the Mafia "protection"...
:)


That's what I was thinking. They send out a mass mailing to their non-protected customers indicating they got a letter from MS about a potential lawsuit, and ask for the Protection Money again or they will give your info to MS.

"Should I busts his arm Louie?"

"Naw, kneecap the lout. He needs his arm to write da checks."

[McRat]

[... Dup

[zekopeko]

I have had the displeasure of contact with the Microsoft Legal Dept. The rule of law isn't practiced well there. I'm a very small business with an excellent reputation for honesty. They took part in stealing $25,000 from us. Not them directly, they just assisted their vendor in doing it. It's just part of their business model. They can either do good engineering, or they can buy lawyers. Either way is fine with them.

How does Microsoft factor in your previous statements?
By your own words from here http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=9404857&postcount=88 :


Somehow, somebody got our Dell account information and tried to buy $25,000 worth of computers. Dell called and gave me all the info. I turned it over to the police and they refused to investigate, even when given the shipping address. "We don't do digital crime" was the answer. I'm tired of that attitude, and by reading a lot of the responses here, it looks like that attitude isn't changing in the near future. "It's only a crime if it does serious damage" is what I'm reading.

Looks to me like you are lashing out against other people just because you were a victim of fraud and didn't know how to fight for your rights.

[zekopeko]

That's what I was thinking. They send out a mass mailing to their non-protected customers indicating they got a letter from MS about a potential lawsuit, and ask for the Protection Money again or they will give your info to MS.

"Should I busts his arm Louie?"

"Naw, kneecap the lout. He needs his arm to write da checks."

Oh look, conjecture with no evidence!
Hey it looks like Canonical (http://www.canonical.com/enterprise-services/ubuntu-advantage/assurance),Novell (http://www.novell.com/licensing/ntap/) and Red Hat (http://www.redhat.com/rhel/details/assurance/) are all engaging in "racketeering". Or they could be offering a solution to the problem of patent dangers.

[mickie.kext]

^Stop FUDing people. Red Hat, Canonical and Mandriva never signed any patent deal with Microsoft. That "protection" they offer means that they will either defend their customers if they get sued, or change infringing code with non infringing one. It is called "indemnification".

Racketeering is what Microsoft (with help of Novell and Xandros) are doing.

Indemnification = Patent protection in case some other company sue.
Racketeering = Patent protection from themselves

[zekopeko]

^Stop FUDing people. Red Hat, Canonical and Mandriva never signed any patent deal with Microsoft. That "protection" they offer means that they will either defend their customers if they get sued, or change infringing code with non infringing one. It is called "indemnification".

Racketeering is what Microsoft (with help of Novell and Xandros) are doing.

Novell nor Xandros (and Amazon) never said that their products infringe on MS patents. What they did is standard practice in the business world. Thats why it's called insurance. The only difference is that Xandros covers only patents from MS and not the rest of the industry.

Because Novell, Xandros and Amazon made a deal with MS means their protection is better since their products can't be sued by MS anymore. This is a purely business transaction. Blame the law for allowing it.


Indemnification = Patent protection in case some other company sue.
Racketeering = Patent protection from themselves

This makes no sense. Xandros is giving patent protection to their customers from Xandros?

BTW racketeering is illegal. What Xandros did isn't.

[McRat]

How does Microsoft factor in your previous statements?
By your own words from here http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=9404857&postcount=88 :



Looks to me like you are lashing out against other people just because you were a victim of fraud and didn't know how to fight for your rights.


You are confused. Not that my finances are relevent to the topic:

Microsoft was working on a HD-DVD system for the X360. They hired Fairway Molds to produce parts. Microsoft had Fairway send the parts to us for evaluation. We completed the $25,000 study, and asked them to pay the bill. Fairway changed their name Fairway Molds Co? or some other such nonsense and refused to pay. Microsoft sided with Fairway. I hired an attorney to collect. I ended up losing a total of $27,000 in the transaction. Attorney settled for $8k and billed me $10k. This was a civil matter where I was duped into doing work for Microsoft and Fairway Molds never had any intention of paying for it. Sure I can sue Microsoft also. Would you lend me $100,000 so I can? I'm a little short until payday.




A criminal acquired our Dell information and ordered $25k worth of equipment from Dell. The police refused to pursue the matter. I was out $0.00. This is a case where the Corona Police Dept refused to prosecute a computer crime.


Now the third issue is I have 3 seats of software that retailed out at $10,000 that won't run Win7/Vista. It does run under Wine and Ubuntu. And in 2009 our Win computers started saying "cannot connect to network" for no reason. Putting in a Ubuntu server fixed that.

[McRat]

Novell nor Xandros (and Amazon) never said that their products infringe on MS patents. What they did is standard practice in the business world. Thats why it's called insurance. The only difference is that Xandros covers only patents from MS and not the rest of the industry.

Because Novell, Xandros and Amazon made a deal with MS means their protection is better since their products can't be sued by MS anymore. This is a purely business transaction. Blame the law for allowing it.



This makes no sense. Xandros is giving patent protection to their customers from Xandros?

BTW racketeering is illegal. What Xandros did isn't.

Xandros is a retail product. They are selling insurance to guarantee you won't be sued if you use it.

From a consumer perspective, this is a bad precedent. Should all other software and hardware dealers charge you? Do you believe this "insurance" would have any real value? ie - If Microsoft sues you personally for $250, are you going to fight it? If you do, you are silly.

[zekopeko]

You are confused. Not that my finances are relevent to the topic:

Microsoft was working on a HD-DVD system for the X360. They hired Fairway Molds to produce parts. Microsoft had Fairway send the parts to us for evaluation. We completed the $25,000 study, and asked them to pay the bill. Fairway changed their name Fairway Molds Co? or some other such nonsense and refused to pay. Microsoft sided with Fairway. I hired an attorney to collect. I ended up losing a total of $27,000 in the transaction. Attorney settled for $8k and billed me $10k. This was a civil matter where I was duped into doing work for Microsoft and Fairway Molds never had any intention of paying for it. Sure I can sue Microsoft also. Would you lend me $100,000 so I can? I'm a little short until payday.

A criminal acquired our Dell information and ordered $25k worth of equipment from Dell. The police refused to pursue the matter. I was out $0.00. This is a case where the Corona Police Dept refused to prosecute a computer crime.

I'm not buying it. You have too many inconsistencies in your story. The attorney settled without going to you for approval? And you were so incompetent that you didn't report him to the Bar? What does MS have to do with contractors of their contractors? The matter was between you and Fairway Mold. How the hell did you get cheated of the money by a simple name change?
Both transactions were worth exactly 25000$ ? Big coincidence.
You also didn't press beyond the Corona Police Dept? How about reporting it to the FBI or state police?
Sorry too much holes in your story. Either that or you are one of the most incompetent people on the planet.

EDIT: Just out of curiosity. What kind of parts were you testing and for what?

[McRat]

I'm not buying it. You have too many inconsistencies in your story. The attorney settled without going to you for approval? And you were so incompetent that you didn't report him to the Bar? What does MS have to do with contractors of their contractors? The matter was between you and Fairway Mold. How the hell did you get cheated of the money by a simple name change?
Both transactions were worth exactly 25000$ ? Big coincidence.
You also didn't press beyond the Corona Police Dept? How about reporting it to the FBI or state police?
Sorry too much holes in your story. Either that or you are one of the most incompetent people on the planet.

EDIT: Just out of curiosity. What kind of parts were you testing and for what?

Welcome to life.

Yes, after $10,000 in legal bills I settled for $8000. I should have never pursued it to begin with, but I was angry. Yes, in California you can do something called General Assignment that is probably illegal in such matters, but it avoids a normal bankrupcy court. The lawyer advised me I had a solid case, but could not tell me how much more I'd have to spend. I can't pay $100,000 to collect $25k.

Fairway Molds moved all their assets to Fairway Molds Co (?) and erased all their debts. I was a "minor" victim, others got hit for a total of about $10 million IIRC. It was about 3 years ago?

I'm a very small business (6 employees) and cannot afford to fight large corporations in court even if I'm right. Again, welcome to life.

You don't have to believe. It's not required. I've been in business 17 years and work with Boeing, Pratt and Whitney, Rolls-Royce, Motorola, Honda, Toyota, Dodge, CIA, JPL, NASA, Edwards Lifescience, etc. All my work has a 100% money back guarantee, you don't like it, you don't pay. It's happened 2 times in over 25,000 jobs. Microsoft and Fairway are crooks, IMO, and a lot of others share that opinion. If you don't? Who cares?

I run a dimensional inspection and reverse engineering laboratory and have 7 coordinate measuring machines. It's small, but it's about the busiest one in North America. It's a living.

The website was done by a college intern, i need a new one: www.qualityinspection.com

I pay full medical, free lunch Fridays, vacations, holidays, bonuses, pension, tuition reimbursement, etc. Not because I'm required, but because it's the right thing to do.

[Ric_NYC]

F.Y.I.

Novell was the first company to sign that kind of deal with Microsoft.

[zekopeko]

I still miss the part where your problems with Fairway are MS's problems. You were contracted by Fairway not MS. I know it's fashionable to bash MS in the Linux world but at least have something concrete to bash them with. There is plenty of material out there. Your problem isn't one of them from the looks of it.

[ELD]

I still miss the part where your problems with Fairway are MS's problems. You were contracted by Fairway not MS. I know it's fashionable to bash MS in the Linux world but at least have something concrete to bash them with. There is plenty of material out there. Your problem isn't one of them from the looks of it.

He is just trying to score points with us. He has been caught out and is now trying to defend himself, it's sad that this topic has gone onto someones sob/ms bashing story.

[zekopeko]

F.Y.I.

Novell was the first company to sign that kind of deal with Microsoft.

Not true. Sun had a deal with MS 2 years before the Novell deal.

http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2004/apr04/04-02sunagreementpr.mspx

[McRat]

Oh, and the reason Microsoft was a party to it, is because Microsoft had us sign a non-disclosure about the design info, and Microsoft requested and received the data. I was shown a Microsoft Purchase Order to Fairway that had a line item for our work. We worked Saturdays, Sundays, and a holidays to meet their deadline. After Fairway scammed us, I called MS, and they said they would look into it, and they would fix it. Microsoft's lawyers contacted me and told me tough luck, they can use the data anyhow they see fit.

And last I heard MS still uses Fairway. Schmucks.

So I can post about how I view Microsoft as a customer, but I still cannot release design data. I'm honest regardless of whether they are.

But that has nothing to do with operating systems. It does have something to do with their ethics though.

[Ric_NYC]

Not true. Sun had a deal with MS 2 years before the Novell deal.

http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2004/apr04/04-02sunagreementpr.mspx


Novell is not the owner of Linux.

It's a different story.

[McRat]

He is just trying to score points with us. He has been caught out and is now trying to defend himself, it's sad that this topic has gone onto someones sob/ms bashing story.

Yes, that's it.

Heck, I think I bought a Ford Van for $25,000 too! Let's see if I can merge them all!!! :guitar:


Hmm...


Thinking....

OH! I had concrete poured in my yard two years ago. It was $25K!!!

And the BHN710's lease amount was about $25k also! (I put $25k down, and $1 buyout for $25k)

My original salary at Compucor was $25K!

I had a motorcycle accident in 1977, and I think the medical bills were $25K!!!

I imagine there are more, but that should be enough for some good spins.


Can you please put all those together for me into one Windows Thread?

[Ric_NYC]

When Microsoft tried to get another deal with Sun (about Openoffice)... this was the response:



Microsoft tried to do something similar to Sun. Bill Gates and Steve Ballmer came to meet with Scott McNealy (Sun's then CEO); Greg Papadopoulos (Sun's CTO) and Schwartz were present as well. The meeting was about Sun's OpenOffice, and how OpenOffice infringed upon patents owned by Microsoft. Gates was clear. "Microsoft owns the office productivity market, and our patents read all over OpenOffice," Gates said, "We're happy to get you under license." Something clearly incompatible with the idea of Free and open source.

Schwartz more or less anticipated Gates' words, and retorted Gates in the same way he retorted Jobs. "We've looked at .NET, and you're trampling all over a huge number of Java patents," Schwartz told Gates, "So what will you pay us for every copy of Windows?" Schwartz states the meeting didn't last long.

[zekopeko]

Novell is not the owner of Linux.

It's a different story.

I have no idea what you are talking about. I just showed you a Linux/FOSS vendor that made a patent deal with Microsoft before Novell.
Please explain how it is different.


When Microsoft tried to get another deal with Sun (about Openoffice)... this was the response:

And they still made the deal with Microsoft. So what is your point?

[Ric_NYC]

I have no idea what you are talking about. I just showed you a Linux/FOSS vendor that made a patent deal with Microsoft before Novell.
Please explain how it is different.







And they still made the deal with Microsoft. So what is your point?

No. The patent deal involved software owned by Microsoft and Sun. Java was not opensource at that time.




That was another time.. another story.

[pr0t3g3]

How does Microsoft factor in your previous statements?
By your own words from here http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=9404857&postcount=88 :



Looks to me like you are lashing out against other people just because you were a victim of fraud and didn't know how to fight for your rights.
Something tells me your an officer or a supporter ^_^ he/she/it isnt lashing out.. merely voicing an opinion, and besides that it is well known that despite microsofts finance, they don't really do things appropriate to their position and supposed prestige.. Say what you will, but a company that releases products that are faulty, despite their supposed competance (vista) aren't really all that 'just'... either that or they aren't as wise as they appear to be.. :\....

[zekopeko]

Novell is not the owner of Linux.

It's a different story.


No. The patent deal involved software owned by Microsoft and Sun. Java was not opensource at that time.

That was another time.. another story.

You're still wrong. From the page I linked


Patents and Intellectual Property: The parties have agreed to a broad covenant not to sue with respect to all past patent infringement claims they may have against each other. The agreement also provides for potential future extensions of this type of covenant. The two companies have also agreed to embark on negotiations for a patent cross-license agreement between them.

And from here: http://www.pcworld.com/article/115510/sun_microsoft_make_a_billion_dollar_deal.html


Friday's agreement is not about joint development, it is about a licensing framework that facilitates licensing of intellectual property between Sun and Microsoft so the companies can make their products interoperable, Ballmer stressed.

The point is that patent are owned and are separate from the product/code. You are trying to tie patents to a product and I'm telling you that patents don't work like that. At that time Sun had OO.org as a FOSS product and I bet other FOSS offerings. So the deal Sun made was very similar to Novell's.

[zekopeko]

Something tells me your an officer or a supporter ^_^ he/she/it isnt lashing out.. merely voicing an opinion, and besides that it is well known that despite microsofts finance, they don't really do things appropriate to their position and supposed prestige.. Say what you will, but a company that releases products that are faulty, despite their supposed competance (vista) aren't really all that 'just'... either that or they aren't as wise as they appear to be.. :\....

I just think he is being overly emotional and is blaming people who had nothing to do with his legal problems. There were options for him. That doesn't absolve MS from their ethical failings btw.
I think that MS's engineers are good folk, it's the management that is making them look bad.

[McRat]

I just think he is being overly emotional and is blaming people who had nothing to do with his legal problems. There were options for him. That doesn't absolve MS from their ethical failings btw.
I think that MS's engineers are good folk, it's the management that is making them look bad.


Not that it's related to topic, but I was one of the first Microsoft Certified Professionals, and a Registered Developer. I started programming desktops on an Apple II that ran a Micro-soft BASIC Z80 card. I have met Bill Gates in person, and I had talked with him on the phone. I had called the MS tech support many times.

And I had no issues with the engineers at MS during my problem with the HD-DVD program and Fairway. My post was about the MS Lawyers, and how they suck. MS manufacturing WANTED to help, but their legal dept stopped them.

Microsoft helped me a lot, and they harmed me a lot. That is the way life is.