HTML5, is Apple honest?

[yester64]

Hi,
i asked myself that as i read the article at webmonkey today.
As it is still early to have HTML5 implemented and some browser may or may not capable of displaying HTML5 content, it is however interesting to see where the train will lead.
So according to Apple there are some cool applications what supposed to show of the capabilities of HTML5 and the future.
Ok, but where am i? I am running Firefox 3.5.9 but i wasn't at all able to watch these glorious demos.
Well, perhaps you really need Safari for that.
It reminded me of the early days where some pages where only viewable with IE and any other browser was rejected. I hope this will not repeat itself again.

Try the website out and write of your experience.

Here is the original article and a link to apple.

http://www.webmonkey.com/2010/06/apples-html5-showcase-less-about-web-standards-more-about-apple/

http://developer.apple.com/safaridemos/

Pretty cool, if just was able to see it.

[jerenept]

It works in Midori.
Great, superfast, open source browser.

FireFox does not support the proprietary H.264 HTML5 media codec, AFAIK, because of philosophical reasons, and is throwing its support behind Ogg and VP8.

EDIT: Apparently it does only work in Safari... Have no fear, Midori can easily identify as Safari.
Edit>Preferences>Network>Identify as

Select safari

[takisan]

Really? Isn't Apple already a blasphemer? Taking UNIX and writing it into a propriatary Operating System going at ... Well, they overcharge their hardware or Best Buy is trying to make a profit. Seriously, the internet is Non-point. I say go for it. An attempt to bring Microsoft down and throw them into Tartarus always has my approval.

[Bachstelze]

Really? Isn't Apple already a blasphemer? Taking UNIX and writing it into a propriatary Operating System going at.

Yes, isn't it a shame that there is code out there that anyone can use, not just GNU/People Who Use My GNU/License?

EDIT: Also, the UNIX part of OS X, called Darwin, is entirely Free Software.


http://www.myconfinedspace.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/unsuccessful-troll.thumbnail.jpg

But thanks for trying!

[mickie.kext]

Yes, isn't it a shame that there is code out there that anyone can use, not just GNU/People Who Use My GNU/License?

EDIT: Also, the UNIX part of OS X, called Darwin, is entirely Free Software.


http://www.myconfinedspace.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/unsuccessful-troll.thumbnail.jpg

But thanks for trying!

I rather think you are a troll. You use any opportunity to trash GPL, and what you are saying is not true. GPL'd code can also be used by anybody. It is hate and selfishness what can stop you from using it, not the license.

[Ric_NYC]

"HTML5 and Web Standards".... but you can't see it if you don't use Safari.

:shock:

[SunnyRabbiera]

HTML5 will be corrupted, like all good tech

[cariboo]

I am using chrome at the moment, there were only 2 demo's that didn't work for me, both .mov files, because I don't have a codec installed to view .mov files.

[geoken]

.... but you can't see it if you don't use Safari.

:shock:

Actually, it gets even worse.

Some of the test are only viewable on the OSX version of Safari. Here is a screen cap of myself running one of these tests with the latest version of Safari on Windows.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y169/geoken/Fullscreencapture64201091705PMbm-1.jpg

note that the Webkit nightlies are only provided for OS X.

[Austin25]

Actually, it gets even worse.

Some of the test are only viewable on the OSX version of Safari. Here is a screen cap of myself running one of these tests with the latest version of Safari on Windows.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y169/geoken/Fullscreencapture64201091705PMbm-1.jpg

note that the Webkit nightlies are only provided for OS X.
Posting a screenshot of Windows on the Ubuntu forums? You, sir, are the troll!

[Ric_NYC]

actually, it gets even worse.

some of the test are only viewable on the osx version of safari. Here is a screen cap of myself running one of these tests with the latest version of safari on windows.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y169/geoken/fullscreencapture64201091705pmbm-1.jpg

note that the webkit nightlies are only provided for os x.



ouch!

[hansdown]

I like the cut of your gib mickie.kext.

No disrespect intended.

[lykwydchykyn]

The difference between this and the browser wars of yesteryear is that these features, despite being safari or webkit-only, are at least CSS3 standard (or proposed standard, anyway) features, not just some random "our browser has it, theirs doesn't" features.

It's not a perfect scenario, but at least now the competition is "we implemented the standard first", not "we came up with the coolest non-standard features".

[Mr. Picklesworth]

I think Christopher Blizzard says it quite well, so I'll save myself a redundant rant :)

http://www.0xdeadbeef.com/weblog/2010/06/intellectual-honesty-and-html5/

[emanuel.b]

Being a web designer by profession, I can say that HTML 5 does show promise. I've had the chance to play around with the code, and even built my own HTML 5 / CSS 3 site (which, by the way, I've successfully run in Firefox 3.6.3 in Ubuntu. HTML 5 (in my opinion) has the potential to out leave Adobe's flash platform in the dust.

[puzzler995]

HTML 5 will end Flash. :guitar:
And HTML5 Does work on Google Chrome's nightly builds, as it is WebKit like Safari. It also partially in Gecko (Firefox). An easy example for this is this shameless link to one of my sites http://la-vida.sourceforge.net/screenshots.html.
For More Info visit this Wikipedia page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_layout_engines_(HTML5)

[Ric_NYC]

According to Opera's Haavard it's because this supposed HTML5 Showcase doesn't use much HTML5 at all, while at the same time, Apple employs several tricks to block out non-Safari browsers for no apparent reason. So, browsers that could run the demonstrations without problems are artificially blocked.

"Apple claim to promote HTML5 and an open Web, but the page uses browser sniffing to block other browsers, vendor prefixes for the CSS3 stuff they are using (even if other browsers support border-radius it won't work because it's coded using -webkit-border-radius), and the patent-encumbered H.264 for video," Haavard writes, "In fact, it seems that the only things that are HTML5 on that page are HTML5 audio and video."

http://www.osnews.com/story/23411/Apple_s_HTML5_Showcase_Isn_t_HTML5_Blocks_Other_Br owsers

[puzzler995]

Apple claim to promote HTML5 and an open Web
XD yeah right. They complain about Adobe Flash being proprietary, yet their iPods and iPhones and iPads only work with THEIR Program, using THEIR music store, with THEIR App Store that THEY control entrance to. Hypocrites...

[McRat]

Yeah, that was pretty weak of Apple to force Safari.

I'm on an Apple right now, and I couldn't see the demo because I have Chrome on it. I don't like Safari.

When I tried to make an appointment at an Apple Store, same thing. Needs Safari.

[hansdown]

You're right puzzler995.


Hypocrites would have a lot to say about this.

[geoken]

Posting a screenshot of Windows on the Ubuntu forums? You, sir, are the troll!

????

I was just trying to point out that not only do they mandate Safari, but in some cases even mandate that you be using their operating system.

[alexan]

Don't look after companies to find honesty: they can't afford it.


If you need real HTML5 testing, just look after what internet is doing about it (and not just for shine that or those product)

http://www.canvasdemos.com/

[takisan]

... has the potential to out leave Adobe's flash platform in the dust.Well, seeing that I hate Flash, After reading some of an wiki on it, I think that HTML5 would be awesome, but made by apple? Come on! Haven't they have enough stuff as it is?


... yet their iPods and iPhones and iPads only work ... Hypocrites... ^ Noteworthy post ^

[McRat]

Here's a screenshot of the Apple Store Website, if you are on an Apple OS X computer and trying to set an on-line appointment using Google Chrome:

[takisan]

And I thought they were worthy contestants to bring Microsoft down.

[donkyhotay]

I hate flash and would like to see it die, having a common proprietary web format is bad for the open nature of the net. However we need to be careful that we don't trade one locked down proprietary format for a second locked down proprietary format. HTML5 is pretty good however if you pay attention apple doesn't really want open formats. They want people to use *their* closed formats rather then adobe's closed formats. HTML5 doesn't specify what movie codec is used and apple is pushing the web to use not only HTML5, but to make h.264 the primary video format (which is of course locked up in software patents) rather then open ogg theora format. HTML5 with ogg theora is great and really open things up, HTML5 with h.264 is trading one tyrant for another.

[puzzler995]

HTML5 with h.264 is trading one tyrant for another.
But It is better. Atleast anyone can make HTML5, instead of having to buy a $200 program

[donkyhotay]

But It is better. Atleast anyone can make HTML5, instead of having to buy a $200 program

But can you make a h.264 video without a $200 program? Almost as important, can you (legally) view a h.264 video without a $200 program? Also apple is very good at locking stuff down, microsoft *wishes* it could lock systems down as much as apple currently does. I trust apple less then I trust adobe, it's easier for them to integrate locked formats into other devices (ipods, ipads, etc.). Despite apple touting freedom and stating they want to take "steps towards a free network", I think they're trying to guide that step onto a conveyer belt that'll drag us back to where things are now (if not worse) but with them in control.

[mickie.kext]

I like the cut of your gib mickie.kext.

No disrespect intended.

What's a gib?:) I really don't know.

[MCVenom]

But It is better. Atleast anyone can make HTML5, instead of having to buy a $200 program
Wait for MPEG LA's promise to not ask for royalties to run up. :P

Screw Apple and H.264. VP8 has finally been licensed under a OSI-compliant license and it'll be the standard for web video before we know it. :D

[donkyhotay]

Wait for MPEG LA's promise to not ask for royalties to run up. :P

Screw Apple and H.264. VP8 has finally been licensed under a OSI-compliant license and it'll be the standard for web video before we know it. :D

I'm still pushing for ogg theora, it's probably the most popular open format so has the most likely chance of succeeding.


What's a gib?:) I really don't know.

I think he meant jib (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jib).

[MCVenom]

I'm still pushing for ogg theora, it's probably the most popular open format so has the most likely chance of succeeding.

The issue with Ogg Theora is that technically speaking, it couldn't match up to H.264. I would have been all for it because it's open-source, but ultimately the fact was that Ogg Theora would have been taking what's open over what's better; something a truly pragmatic organization wouldn't have done.

VP8 (or now, WebM) is supported by Google (and by extension, YouTube), various tech companies, Adobe (oh the irony :lolflag:), and Mozilla and Opera of course; while being neck and neck with H.264. I think that we'll see this become a standard fairly quickly and could possibly, put bluntly, nullify Theora's existence on the web.

[donkyhotay]

Didn't know that, (haven't paid close attention to the individual formats themselves). So long it works and everything is open I really don't care.

[yester64]

But can you make a h.264 video without a $200 program? Almost as important, can you (legally) view a h.264 video without a $200 program? Also apple is very good at locking stuff down, microsoft *wishes* it could lock systems down as much as apple currently does. I trust apple less then I trust adobe, it's easier for them to integrate locked formats into other devices (ipods, ipads, etc.). Despite apple touting freedom and stating they want to take "steps towards a free network", I think they're trying to guide that step onto a conveyer belt that'll drag us back to where things are now (if not worse) but with them in control.

My point was, if history will repeat itself again.
In the earlier days we seen Microsoft trying to looking down the web with their standards. Active-X and the like. Also some sites were not viewable or not rightly formated with other browsers which made people switch to IE.
Now, do we see this again with Apple locking out other browsers?
Of course this is only a demo page and perhaps they using code which is not implemented in other browsers.
I have really no idea. My perspective is that of a normal user with limited knowledge on that matter.
But as far as i see it. Apple uses webkit which is used and developed by not only Apple. As such it should be compatible, shouldn't it?

If firefox is capable of displaying HTML5 perhaps it is possible to pretend to be safari and see it then.

[Frak]

Considering Chrome and Chromium can do everything Safari can, I fail to see why it is telling me to download this crappy browser. /My Opinion

[MCVenom]

considering chrome and chromium can do everything safari can, i fail to see why it is telling me to download this crappy browser. /my opinion
+1

[*g!t5^_)*(H]

Re: HTML5, is Apple honest?

No, they have never been honest. As long as Steve Jobs works for that company it won't change. Apple is even worst than microsoft in many ways, Apple will fall down again due their arrogancy. Right now Apple hasn't rivals but it will change, and users are not stupid.

[donkyhotay]

users are not stupid.

Sadly I don't know about that part... well maybe ignorant rather then stupid.

[puzzler995]

But can you make a h.264 video without a $200 program?

Yes PiTiVi will encode to h.264, with the codecs installed


Wait for MPEG LA's promise to not ask for royalties to run up. :P

Screw Apple and H.264. VP8 has finally been licensed under a OSI-compliant license and it'll be the standard for web video before we know it. :D

Yep WebM will be a lot better than Ogg is.

[Frak]

Yes PiTiVi will encode to h.264, with the codecs installed

FFMpeg is free, and has existed a lot longer than PiTiVi has.

[takisan]

... Apple is even worst than microsoft in many ways, ...
+1/2

[Merk42]

HTML 5 will end Flash. :guitar:


All aboard the misconception train!

[Frak]

all aboard the misconception train!
+9001

[john_spiral]

a quote from wikipedia:

"In countries where patents on software algorithms are upheld, vendors and commercial users of products that use H.264/AVC are expected to pay patent licensing royalties for the patented technology[8] that their products use. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H.264/MPEG-4_AVC)"

Gollum: So bright... so beautiful... ah, Precious.

[jerenept]

FFMpeg is free, and has existed a lot longer than PiTiVi has.

PiTiVi uses FFMpeg (GStreamer plugin)

[puzzler995]

a quote from wikipedia:

"In countries where patents on software algorithms are upheld, vendors and commercial users of products that use H.264/AVC are expected to pay patent licensing royalties for the patented technology[8] that their products use. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H.264/MPEG-4_AVC)"

Gollum: So bright... so beautiful... ah, Precious.

EXPECTED... That doesnt mean you HAVE to...:twisted: