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brydonhunter
May 27th, 2010, 03:55 PM
When I first saw the menu buttons on the left side in Lucid Beta, I was very skeptical. I decided to try it out and see if it will work.

I'm actually prefer them on the left more than the right. I get confused now when I go on Windows.

Go figure :cool:

MasterNetra
May 27th, 2010, 03:58 PM
Its a matter of personal preference. Nothing more. If it works for ya then great if not, well ubuntu tweak can move them back to the other side.

Phrea
May 27th, 2010, 04:09 PM
I'm used to it, but I still don't like the order, on the left it really should be Close, Maximize, Minimize. Mirrored from the old style right side.

I get confused when I use Xfce/Lxde or any of the other DE's. :D

mihai.ile
May 27th, 2010, 04:09 PM
I also think that the buttons on the left are ok. Better? I don't know but definitely are not worse that on right. I got used to them on the first hours of use, and I do use the PC a lot actually.

lz1dsb
May 27th, 2010, 04:16 PM
I also believe that this is a personal preference. I still haven't switched to Lucid Linx, but on the two machines where I'm running Jaunty and Karmic I use desktop themes with both settings (on Jaunty the buttons are on right and on Karmic on left). I'm so used to this, running it for maybe half an year or so, that I don't get confused when I switch from one of the machines to the other. In fact it's very convenient, because I'm running Jaunty on a VM accessible from the net, so that when establish a remote session, I don't get confused where I'm... But of course it's all personal preference...:P

Cheers,
Boyan

Sealbhach
May 27th, 2010, 04:37 PM
When I first saw the menu buttons on the left side in Lucid Beta, I was very skeptical. I decided to try it out and see if it will work.

I'm actually prefer them on the left more than the right. I get confused now when I go on Windows.

Go figure :cool:

It just proves it wasn't such a big deal as people made it out to be. But the reason for switching to the left was to make way for the new Windicators in the space on the right. I'm not sure the Windicators are something that will work out well, they could cause way too much technical problems.... but that's a different issue.

.

brydonhunter
May 27th, 2010, 04:42 PM
It just proves it wasn't such a big deal as people made it out to be. But the reason for switching to the left was to make way for the new Windicators in the space on the right. I'm not sure the Windicators are something that will work out well, they could cause way too much technical problems.... but that's a different issue.

.

Only time will tell...

Dragonbite
May 27th, 2010, 04:51 PM
I'm getting used to it, and when I switch back to Windows I do find myself hunting for the button.

I was trying to point out to my son that the buttons have moved and he was opening and closing things without hesitation. He took to it very easily!

Linuxforall
May 27th, 2010, 04:52 PM
Actually I find them really convenient specially when multiple windows are open, the right side buttons tend to get covered up. Anyways took me few hours to get used to it but now its a keeper for me.

scottuss
May 27th, 2010, 04:55 PM
I moved them back but I'm interested to see how Windicators will work, and if I like it, I'll put the buttons back (guess I'll have little choice!)

dE_logics
May 27th, 2010, 05:01 PM
No, actually this is bad. So is the default placement of the panels in Gnome.

You see the upper right corner is granted to the close button, thus when you wanna close a windows, just close your eyes and drop your mouse to the right upper end of the screen. This increases the usability of the desktop, but this is not happening here.

You can you can configure all this using the gconf editor.

neoargon
May 27th, 2010, 05:33 PM
Because of the speciality of the human hand, it is easy to move the mouse to the left than to the right(for a right handed person). The personal preference or inclination towards the right sided buttons is because we are used to right sided buttons.

Linuxforall
May 27th, 2010, 05:36 PM
Because of the speciality of the human hand, it is easy to move the mouse to the left than to the right. The personal preference or inclination towards the right sided buttons is because we are used to right sided buttons.

Very good point there, maybe thats why I adapted to it easily.

neoargon
May 27th, 2010, 05:39 PM
No, actually this is bad. So is the default placement of the panels in Gnome.

You see the upper right corner is granted to the close button, thus when you wanna close a windows, just close your eyes and drop your mouse to the right upper end of the screen. This increases the usability of the desktop, but this is not happening here.

You can you can configure all this using the gconf editor.
You too have a point . I used to do that (closing without looking at the close button) in windows.

betrunkenaffe
May 27th, 2010, 05:49 PM
I'm still not used to them, I have to stop and think every time I go to minimize/maximize the window. It's just a relearning experience, I'll get it eventually.

Left or right doesn't matter to me however I am intrigued by the windicators.

Rasa1111
May 27th, 2010, 06:00 PM
I'm used to it, but I still don't like the order, on the left it really should be Close, Maximize, Minimize. Mirrored from the old style right side.

I get confused when I use Xfce/Lxde or any of the other DE's. :D

If you still dont like the order~
not only can you put them on the left or right~
you can also can put them in any order you like.
(with Ubuntu Tweak, at least)

But I dont like the close button on the far left~ so i changed it to be exactly how i wanted it.


You can put them in any order you want by dragging them into position, with Tweak. ~


even better than gconf-editor.

Dragonbite
May 27th, 2010, 06:11 PM
What I would like to see is if this is pushed upstream to Gnome so ALL Gnome distributions move the buttons for consistency. It's annoying to go from Ubuntu to another Linux distro in Gnome with the buttons still on the right.

RiceMonster
May 27th, 2010, 06:15 PM
You don't even need Ubuntu tweak to reorganize the window buttons. It can be done with gconf-editor.

Rasa1111
May 27th, 2010, 06:20 PM
You don't even need Ubuntu tweak to reorganize the window buttons. It can be done with gconf-editor.

Yes i know.

hence my words~ "even better than gconf-editor"

apparently many people cant figure out how to do what they want in gconf-editor.
or would just rather not bother figuring it out, I dont know. lol

altonbr
May 27th, 2010, 06:51 PM
No, actually this is bad. So is the default placement of the panels in Gnome.

You see the upper right corner is granted to the close button, thus when you wanna close a windows, just close your eyes and drop your mouse to the right upper end of the screen. This increases the usability of the desktop, but this is not happening here.

You can you can configure all this using the gconf editor.

This is why I get rid of the top panel and just use a bottom panel.. You can't go to the absolute top-right hand corner to close the window with two panels like you can with one. It's a time saver for me. I don't want to use my motor skills to carefully hit the "x" button _every_ time I close a Window. It's a time waster and annoying.

RiceMonster
May 27th, 2010, 06:53 PM
This is why I get rid of the top panel and just use a bottom panel.. You can't go to the absolute top-right hand corner to close the window with two panels like you can with one. It's a time saver for me. I don't want to use my motor skills to carefully hit the "x" button _every_ time I close a Window. It's a time waster and annoying.

Alt-F4 would be even faster, wouldn't you think?

mihai.ile
May 27th, 2010, 07:17 PM
ALT+F4, CTRL+W, CTRL+Q
Use them many many times...

altonbr
May 27th, 2010, 07:21 PM
Alt-F4 would be even faster, wouldn't you think?
Depends if you're drinking a beer or not..

TeoBigusGeekus
May 27th, 2010, 07:34 PM
For everyone who wants buttons on the left side in windows:
Leftsider (http://www.askvg.com/leftsider-move-windows-titlebar-buttons-to-the-left-with-this-small-free-utility/)

Sealbhach
May 27th, 2010, 07:54 PM
Hey Coolface.

.

mihai.ile
May 27th, 2010, 07:56 PM
Great, I'll try that at work, on XP

EDIT: the application it's kind of junk.

TeoBigusGeekus
May 27th, 2010, 08:19 PM
Great, I'll try that at work, on XP

EDIT: the application it's kind of junk.
Why? It works perfectly for me in win7.

EDIT: Look at the comments at the bottom of the page I've linked - it works 100% only with vista and 7

chris200x9
May 27th, 2010, 08:26 PM
What I would like to see is if this is pushed upstream to Gnome so ALL Gnome distributions move the buttons for consistency. It's annoying to go from Ubuntu to another Linux distro in Gnome with the buttons still on the right.

seriously? I'm at a loss for words...

rottentree
May 27th, 2010, 08:26 PM
No Mark Shuttleworth was left all along.
Though moving the window buttons to the far left clearly shows that linux is alleged with communism and that we should destroy it before it takes over our wonderful capitalistic world.

aysiu
May 27th, 2010, 08:27 PM
Alt-F4 would be even faster, wouldn't you think? Except if the wrong window is in focus. Doh!

RiceMonster
May 27th, 2010, 08:29 PM
Except if the wrong window is in focus. Doh!

lol I think we've all done that one!

Icarus_Complex
May 27th, 2010, 08:51 PM
I've been running 10.04 for a little over an hour and I've gotten the habit of not even using the buttons, that is, just right clicking anywhere on the top bar and selecting whatever from the drop-down box.

schauerlich
May 27th, 2010, 08:58 PM
OS X is my primary OS, and it still messes me up. Go figure.

98cwitr
May 27th, 2010, 09:02 PM
i moved them...I'm not a mac person.

JDShu
May 27th, 2010, 09:06 PM
I got used to OS X long time ago.

aysiu
May 27th, 2010, 09:07 PM
OS X is my primary OS, and it still messes me up. Go figure.
Same here.

It's not just about left and right. Window management is completely different in OS X.

cascade9
May 27th, 2010, 09:13 PM
What I would like to see is if this is pushed upstream to Gnome so ALL Gnome distributions move the buttons for consistency. It's annoying to go from Ubuntu to another Linux distro in Gnome with the buttons still on the right.

Thats going to happen....sometime between hell freezing over and gnome stops being the defualt DE for any distro apart from ubuntu IMO.

Rasa1111
May 27th, 2010, 09:20 PM
I've been running 10.04 for a little over an hour and I've gotten the habit of not even using the buttons, that is, just right clicking anywhere on the top bar and selecting whatever from the drop-down box.


There ya go! :idea:
=D> lol

:mrgreen:

papangul
May 28th, 2010, 02:36 AM
.. But the reason for switching to the left was to make way for the new Windicators in the space on the right.
Are we ever going to have the windicators in lucid(officially)? If not, then why was the switch introduced in lucid which is a LTS(that too a day before the interface freeze!). :confused:

Merk42
May 28th, 2010, 02:56 AM
Are we ever going to have the windicators in lucid(officially)?No
If not, then why was the switch introduced in lucid which is a LTS(that too a day before the interface freeze!). :confused:
Users will have had 6months to adjust to the left hand placement so they'll be fine by the time the windicators appear in 10.10

Eisenwinter
May 28th, 2010, 03:18 AM
When I first saw the menu buttons on the left side in Lucid Beta, I was very skeptical. I decided to try it out and see if it will work.

I'm actually prefer them on the left more than the right. I get confused now when I go on Windows.

Go figure :cool:
Or, maybe you just got used it, seeing as you have been using an OS with the buttons on the left side for like 3 months now.

Go figure.

3rdalbum
May 28th, 2010, 05:29 AM
When I heard about the Windicators, I immediately switched the buttons back to the left, to give me plenty of time to get used to them. It only took a couple of days of infrequent computer use.

Dragonbite
May 28th, 2010, 01:36 PM
Or, maybe you just got used it, seeing as you have been using an OS with the buttons on the left side for like 3 months now.

Go figure.

The last time I "touched" a Mac is 2005 when I was using the Library's system to search for a job (didn't have Broadband at home, or AC..)

Doesn't take long to get used to it.

ve4cib
May 28th, 2010, 03:10 PM
This is why I get rid of the top panel and just use a bottom panel.. You can't go to the absolute top-right hand corner to close the window with two panels like you can with one. It's a time saver for me. I don't want to use my motor skills to carefully hit the "x" button _every_ time I close a Window. It's a time waster and annoying.

Or you could add window buttons to the panel (http://ubuntuguide.net/substitute-maximized-window-title-and-buttons-with-gnome-panel-applets). I've not tried out the packages in that link, but the concept is interesting. Max/Min/Close buttons + global menu on the top panel seems like it could work well.

RiceMonster
May 28th, 2010, 03:12 PM
Here's what confused me about the windicators thing: Why can't they be on the left? It doesn't really seem to make sense to me that they had to move the window buttons to the left to make way for the windicators, when they could have just put the windicators on the left.

Meep3D
May 28th, 2010, 03:23 PM
The close buttons on the left are worse, from a usability standpoint, than having them on the right. This is a solid fact and there are numerous threads and articles which discuss the issue in depth.

Saying 'I prefer it on the left now' does not alter the fact that it is a bad decision and a usability regression and is about as meaningful as a non-programmer talking about coding conventions - you cannot debate something you don't understand.

Any usability improvement is likely imaginary and the result of the placebo effect often seen with branding where if you are told it's better from a source that seems authoritative then you'll generally believe it.

Dragonbite
May 28th, 2010, 03:31 PM
I was on a non-Ubuntu Linux a while ago and it threw in some desktop effects.

The one that works well with the buttons being on the left, is (sorry, don't know what it's called) the one that you put your mouse in the top right corner and it displays all of the open windows in a grid so you can select which one to give focus to (Expose'?).

I kept tripping that when I threw my pointer to the top right to close the window when it was maximized. So I thought in this instance it would be handy because I wouldn't be moving to the top right and tripping this all of the time.

Now, though, because of the Intel 855 issue I can't run desktop effects anyway so it is a non-issue.

Frogs Hair
May 28th, 2010, 03:49 PM
The window menus are on the the left , so it seems logical to put the buttons on the left . It is an easy fix if you don't like it.
The buttons on the left also reduce repetitive motion.

2cute4u
May 28th, 2010, 04:12 PM
I've had the close box on the left my whole life, and since I'm right handed that seems like it would be the more natural corner. Occasionally i have to do something for a minute at school when someone else is logged in who puts them on the right, and it just feels weird to me .

Personally though, I would like to have the close box on the left, and the zoom box on the right. That way there is less chance of accidentally closing the Window. But since Mac OS X doesn't left me change it, I keep ubuntu the same was Mac OS X.

Meep3D
May 28th, 2010, 04:18 PM
The window menus are on the the left , so it seems logical to put the buttons on the left . It is an easy fix if you don't like it.
The buttons on the left also reduce repetitive motion.

The menus and the buttons would virtually never be used in sequence making their proximity only a negative. The only one that may be used is maximise, the others (minimise and close) would certainly not be used with the window menus. Maximise also acts to move the window also, rendering any proximity benefits moot.

For the other way around (Menu then controls) due to the drop-down nature of the menu hierarchy your mouse pointer will still end up a significant distance from them, again eliminating any advantages.

By placing them together though you dramatically increase the likelihood of a miss-click. It makes you go slower as you have to be more careful and discriminates against the impaired (eyesight and motor controls) by placing clearly destructive functionality (close and minimise mainly) right beside often used benign functionality.

Truth be told it's not a huge deal, but it is worse than it was before with not a single actual gain.

dlmoak
May 28th, 2010, 04:19 PM
You can change the order of the buttons. Open the configuration editor, go to apps, metacity, general, button_layout. Edit the order of the buttons to suit. You can also move the buttons from left to right or vice versa by changing the placement of the colon (either in front of or after the button names).

Meep3D
May 28th, 2010, 04:28 PM
You can change the order of the buttons. Open the configuration editor, go to apps, metacity, general, button_layout. Edit the order of the buttons to suit. You can also move the buttons from left to right or vice versa by changing the placement of the colon (either in front of or after the button names).

And if they changed the default theme to a variation on Hot Dog Stand, or made the right mouse button run a 'sudo rm -rf /*' would you say 'it's OK you can change it'?

Fundamentally this change made Ubuntu worse. All you'll have now is half the Ubuntu systems with the buttons on the RHS and half on the LHS with utterly no gain.

Does gconf editor also cause the position to shift in custom apps and tabbed windows, or does it just mean that the actual side that the close button will be on is now pretty much random?

2cute4u
May 28th, 2010, 04:30 PM
The menus and the buttons would virtually never be used in sequence making their proximity only a negative. The only one that may be used is maximise, the others (minimise and close) would certainly not be used with the window menus. Maximise also acts to move the window also, rendering any proximity benefits moot.

For the other way around (Menu then controls) due to the drop-down nature of the menu hierarchy your mouse pointer will still end up a significant distance from them, again eliminating any advantages.

By placing them together though you dramatically increase the likelihood of a miss-click. It makes you go slower as you have to be more careful and discriminates against the impaired (eyesight and motor controls) by placing clearly destructive functionality (close and minimise mainly) right beside often used benign functionality.

Truth be told it's not a huge deal, but it is worse than it was before with not a single actual gain.

Well If you have the menubar in the window, I can see that the proximity of thew close box to the menu could be a problem. But I use a global menubar, so that's not and issue for me. Theoretically, you could have menubars at the bottom of the window too, and in that case, there wouldn't be a problem either.

2cute4u
May 28th, 2010, 04:31 PM
And if they changed the default theme to a variation on Hot Dog Stand, or made the right mouse button run a 'sudo rm -rf /*' would you say 'it's OK you can change it'?

Fundamentally this change made Ubuntu worse. All you'll have now is half the Ubuntu systems with the buttons on the RHS and half on the LHS with utterly no gain.

Does gconf editor also cause the position to shift in custom apps and tabbed windows, or does it just mean that the actual side that the close button will be on is now pretty much random?

it always was random.

Simian Man
May 28th, 2010, 04:33 PM
So all you need to do to be "right" is make an arbitrary change and not have it be the end of the world?

aysiu
May 28th, 2010, 04:38 PM
You can change the order of the buttons. And if they had left the buttons on the right, you could have changed it to the left. Why make left the default unless there is a good reason for it?

ELD
May 28th, 2010, 04:43 PM
And if they had left the buttons on the right, you could have changed it to the left. Why make left the default unless there is a good reason for it?

Because mark wants the new icons on the right...even though he could have just put them on the left...this whole thing is stupid.

I am used to it now though, doesn't bother me so much, i'm just worried how the new indicators will turn out.

KdotJ
May 28th, 2010, 04:49 PM
I love them on the left hand side. So much more convienient for the too panel menus. And also, when I use windows I usually close the windows by double-clicking on the top left hand side anyways

ssj6akshat
May 28th, 2010, 04:57 PM
And if they had left the buttons on the right, you could have changed it to the left. Why make left the default unless there is a good reason for it?

Windicators

RiceMonster
May 28th, 2010, 04:58 PM
Windicators

Why can't they be put on the left instead of moving the buttons to the left?

Dragonbite
May 28th, 2010, 05:01 PM
Maybe they should have placed it in the middle! ;)

NCLI
May 28th, 2010, 05:12 PM
Because mark wants the new icons on the right...even though he could have just put them on the left...this whole thing is stupid.

I am used to it now though, doesn't bother me so much, i'm just worried how the new indicators will turn out.

Here's what confused me about the windicators thing: Why can't they be on the left? It doesn't really seem to make sense to me that they had to move the window buttons to the left to make way for the windicators, when they could have just put the windicators on the left.

Why can't they be put on the left instead of moving the buttons to the left?Here's why:

1. Having the Windicators on the right places them directly underneath the other indicators, making the top-right the place you go for the indicator-system, whether in the window or the panel.

2. This also makes the transition from windowed to maximized more fluent in UNE, which will have the Windicators next to the App Indicators when the window is maximized.

ELD
May 28th, 2010, 06:23 PM
Here's why:

1. Having the Windicators on the right places them directly underneath the other indicators, making the top-right the place you go for the indicator-system, whether in the window or the panel.

2. This also makes the transition from windowed to maximized more fluent in UNE, which will have the Windicators next to the App Indicators when the window is maximized.

1 - I don't have my panel at the top as i bet many others also move it.

2 - The desktop edition is not the UNE edition, i don't see why it should affect larger screens when it is supposed to be like that for smaller screens to save space.

So your arguments are invalid mate.

Frogs Hair
May 28th, 2010, 07:02 PM
The menus and the buttons would virtually never be used in sequence making their proximity only a negative. The only one that may be used is maximise, the others (minimise and close) would certainly not be used with the window menus. Maximise also acts to move the window also, rendering any proximity benefits moot.

For the other way around (Menu then controls) due to the drop-down nature of the menu hierarchy your mouse pointer will still end up a significant distance from them, again eliminating any advantages.

By placing them together though you dramatically increase the likelihood of a miss-click. It makes you go slower as you have to be more careful and discriminates against the impaired (eyesight and motor controls) by placing clearly destructive functionality (close and minimise mainly) right beside often used benign functionality.

Truth be told it's not a huge deal, but it is worse than it was before with not a single actual gain.

I have no problems with missed clicks, but maybe it's an issue for others. As said it's an easy fix.

RiceMonster
May 28th, 2010, 07:07 PM
Here's why:

1. Having the Windicators on the right places them directly underneath the other indicators, making the top-right the place you go for the indicator-system, whether in the window or the panel.

2. This also makes the transition from windowed to maximized more fluent in UNE, which will have the Windicators next to the App Indicators when the window is maximized.

Thanks, that answers my question.

Merk42
May 28th, 2010, 08:06 PM
1 - I don't have my panel at the top as i bet many others also move it.

2 - The desktop edition is not the UNE edition, i don't see why it should affect larger screens when it is supposed to be like that for smaller screens to save space.

So your arguments are invalid mate.

1 - Uh, no just because you moved things away from the default doesn't invalidate it. If so, you could use that to invalidate any design decision ever.

2 - It's going to be an option on the desktop "for testing purposes (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/ApplicationMenu)", though I wouldn't be surprised if they wanted to have it for the desktop in 11.04.
Where would you put windicators anyway? On the upper left? I bet then you'd just complain it was different than UNE/other side of indicator applet

ssj6akshat
May 29th, 2010, 05:39 AM
Why can't they be put on the left instead of moving the buttons to the left?

Cuz they are better on Right,where the original indicators were.

gemmakaru
May 29th, 2010, 08:23 AM
They are still in the right for me as the upgrade from karmic broke something. I now can't change my window decoration, no matter which I pick it still shows the decoration I was using in Karmic, even though everything else changes, like colours etc. Even changing from GTK to Emerald has no effect.

Merk42
May 29th, 2010, 01:37 PM
They are still in the right for me as the upgrade from karmic broke something. I now can't change my window decoration, no matter which I pick it still shows the decoration I was using in Karmic, even though everything else changes, like colours etc. Even changing from GTK to Emerald has no effect.

It's per theme. So the new Ambiance and Radiance are on the left. If you're still using Human (or some theme other than Ambiance/Radiance/Dust) then they'll be on the right.

Penguin Guy
May 29th, 2010, 02:20 PM
I've always preferred them on the left, but really don't think it's a big deal either way and have never bothered to change them. What I do think is a big deal, however, is the order of the buttons.

More information about window buttons here. (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1455028)

meho_r
May 29th, 2010, 02:34 PM
I wonder how I've never tried putting buttons on the left side before Lucid, 'cause they're (that is, for me) a great improvement usability side. Top left part of the screen is easiest to reach, so having buttons and menus there is definitely a good decision. As for order of the buttons, I think it's OK.