I just installed Windows XP yesterday

[Paqman]

I just built a new computer for the wife, and installed Windows on it as she needs it to be fully compatible with her work environment.

Installing Windows XP is just about the worst computer experience you can possibly have. Ugh! I started yesterday afternoon and it's still not done. I'd almost forgotten how horrible it was to install.

[chessnerd]

Well, it did come out ten years ago. I'm guessing installing Debian or Red Hat ten years ago wasn't a lot of fun either.

Why not use Windows 7 Professional with XP Mode? Full compatibility and it won't lose support in 2014...

[cascade9]

@ Paqman- over a day? I guess I've done too many WinXP installs, last time I did it I was down to under an hour of setup. Even with my 'I dont use much of teh preinstalled microsoft software because there are better programs out there' policy.

For extra fun, you could try nLite, now that makes thing slower....but also faster, you can do neat things preinstall all the hotfixes, drivers, etc.


Well, it did come out ten years ago. I'm guessing installing Debian or Red Hat ten years ago wasn't a lot of fun either.

8.something years, not 10.

[Paqman]

Why not use Windows 7 Professional with XP Mode? Full compatibility and it won't lose support in 2014...

Because i'm not going to shell out £££ when i've got a spare XP license laying about, and she's completely happy with it.

I'm resigned to the fact I might have fork over some of my hard-earned to Microsoft (through gritted teeth) one day, but the longer I can the delay that the happier i'll be.

[chessnerd]

8.something years, not 10.

I concede. Windows XP was released on October 24, 2001, exactly 8 years, 6 months, and 24 days from today (May 19, 2010). Since then, the sun has risen and set 3,128 times and a clock on the wall has ticked over 270,259,200 times.

Release date: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_XP
Calculation: http://www.timeanddate.com/date/durationresult.html?m1=10&d1=25&y1=2001&m2=5&d2=19&y2=2010


Because i'm not going to shell out £££ when i've got a spare XP license laying about, and she's completely happy with it.

I'm resigned to the fact I might have fork over some of my hard-earned to Microsoft (through gritted teeth) one day, but the longer I can the delay that the happier i'll be.
I see. I can understand that. You have until April 8, 2014, so that's 1420 days. Enjoy that time while you have it...

[Paqman]

@ Paqman- over a day? I guess I've done too many WinXP installs, last time I did it I was down to under an hour of setup. Even with my 'I dont use much of teh preinstalled microsoft software because there are better programs out there' policy.

XP itself only takes about an hour, but then there's drivers and software, all of which has to be done one at a time and babysat the whole time due to stupid dialogs and reboots. When I reinstall Linux, I feed APT the list of software I want and it does it all for me. With no reboots. I love package managers!

It wasn't helping that our connection had chosen yesterday to slow to prehistoric speeds, either.



For extra fun, you could try nLite, now that makes thing slower....but also faster, you can do neat things preinstall all the hotfixes, drivers, etc.


I've fiddled about with nLite before, but I don't really use Windows enough to bother optimising it too much, and for a machine i'm building for someone else i'd rather leave all the default services running, as I can't control what it'll be used for.

I did at least use a slipstreamed SP3 disk, because installing service packs multiples the grief factor by about a million IIRC.

I'll be imaging this install once it's complete, so at least any future reinstalls should be pretty painless, but the first install on a machine is a 'mare.

[Meep3D]

XP itself only takes about an hour, but then there's drivers and software, all of which has to be done one at a time and babysat the whole time due to stupid dialogs and reboots. When I reinstall Linux, I feed APT the list of software I want and it does it all for me. With no reboots. I love package managers!

As someone said, 8 years, 6 months, and 24 days old. If you got a Linux distro that old it simply wouldn't work. Obviously you are going to have to install drivers, I really just can't see some software working for hardware that didn't exist without installing drivers - at least with Windows it is easy, rather than the 'yeah, you need a new kernel for that' approach.

Windows 7 however has been fine for me at detecting, updating and installing drivers all by itself. Ubuntu forces me to upgrade every 6 months and then breaks hardware retroactively.

As soon as (if ever) Linux gets mainstream support then the repo system will:

a: Probably not be scalable to the level of software that Windows currently has.
b: Will not include large swathes of commercial and non-open source software.


I've fiddled about with nLite before, but I don't really use Windows enough to bother optimising it too much, and for a machine i'm building for someone else i'd rather leave all the default services running, as I can't control what it'll be used for.

I did at least use a slipstreamed SP3 disk, because installing service packs multiples the grief factor by about a million IIRC.

I'll be imaging this install once it's complete, so at least any future reinstalls should be pretty painless, but the first install on a machine is a 'mare.

Insert disk, click 'next' for a bit, reboot, Insert driver disk, click 'next' for a bit, reboot, click the 'Windows Update' button, click next for a bit, reboot.

I've spent longer trying to get WiFi working on Ubuntu than it takes to install Windows XP from scratch. The only really irritating bit is specifying the language you use three times. Besides, why is install so important and why do people feel the need to point out how hard it is all the time? You only do it once every few years anyway.

[NCLI]

As soon as (if ever) Linux gets mainstream support then the repo system will:

a: Probably not be scalable to the level of software that Windows currently has.
b: Will not include large swathes of commercial and non-open source software.

a: It will easily scale to the number of quality software currently available for Windows. 98% of the apps available on the net are crap.

b: Why not?

[cascade9]

XP itself only takes about an hour, but then there's drivers and software, all of which has to be done one at a time and babysat the whole time due to stupid dialogs and reboots. When I reinstall Linux, I feed APT the list of software I want and it does it all for me. With no reboots. I love package managers!

It wasn't helping that our connection had chosen yesterday to slow to prehistoric speeds, either.

Honestly, I dont count the whole install time on XP in my 'under an hour'. I just enter the info needed to start the setup, partition, etc, then walk away and play with another computer in my collection, or do some washing, etc.. Then walk back when it is finished, and install the motherboard and video drivers, a firewall, foobar2000, VLC, firefox, EAC, 7-zip, and half a dozen other things that I'm fogetting right now. Thats if I didnt build them into a nLited install disc.

If you do it in the right order, the number of restarts is quite a bit lower

Agreed on package managers though, it does make the whole process a lot faster...figuring things the same way as I did above, I'm down to about 10-15 minutes with the distro I use mostly.



I've fiddled about with nLite before, but I don't really use Windows enough to bother optimising it too much, and for a machine i'm building for someone else i'd rather leave all the default services running, as I can't control what it'll be used for.

I did at least use a slipstreamed SP3 disk, because installing service packs multiples the grief factor by about a million IIRC.

I'll be imaging this install once it's complete, so at least any future reinstalls should be pretty painless, but the first install on a machine is a 'mare.

Fair enough. Even when I didnt play with the services, I still used nLite to remove thing like the Ali driver (seriously, I havent seen an Ali chipset since the late socket 7 days).


Insert disk, click 'next' for a bit, reboot, Insert driver disk, click 'next' for a bit, reboot, click the 'Windows Update' button, click next for a bit, reboot.

Put it another way- insert disc, get old/outdated drivers, repeat process.

I've NEVER got a driver disc that had the current drivers on it, and sometimes getting the newer drivers can make a big difference.


a: It will easily scale to the number of quality software currently available for Windows. 98% of the apps available on the net are crap.


I dont know about 98%, but a huge majority of them are ;)

[Peter3131]

I have Windows Vista RC2 installed on my new Gateway laptop and I'm trying to install Windows XP on it. However, when I insert the CD and open the setup it says that I cannot install an older version of Windows over Windows Vista. When I boot from the Windows XP install disc, it says that It cannot locate my hard drive. My hard drive is a Western Digital WD1200BEVS. I don't know what to do. Have any ideas?

[cascade9]

I have Windows Vista RC2 installed on my new Gateway laptop and I'm trying to install Windows XP on it. However, when I insert the CD and open the setup it says that I cannot install an older version of Windows over Windows Vista. When I boot from the Windows XP install disc, it says that It cannot locate my hard drive. My hard drive is a Western Digital WD1200BEVS. I don't know what to do. Have any ideas?

Boot a liveCD, gparted, delete the current partitions. At least, I'm pretty sure thats how I fixed this problem when I install XP over the abomination called 'vista'

[Meep3D]

a: It will easily scale to the number of quality software currently available for Windows. 98% of the apps available on the net are crap.

Who decides this? Sounds like the much loathed 'app store' guidelines, with the key difference that it is the distro's that check the software for updates and then update the repo. Once this list has accumulated potentially millions of items you'll need rooms with hundreds of people who's sole job is to check if something has been updated and then put it in the repo. It simply won't work.

Expecting developers to submit it to the repo won't work either as every distro has it's own, requiring a software developer to repeatedly package and distribute their work to dozens of platforms - something they commonly won't be willing to do.


b: Why not?

It's not legal? You still need permission to distribute no-cost closed source software most of the time. Also it'd be entirely unverified, effectively losing the security-through-limited-choice system you have now.

[Meep3D]

I have Windows Vista RC2 installed on my new Gateway laptop and I'm trying to install Windows XP on it. However, when I insert the CD and open the setup it says that I cannot install an older version of Windows over Windows Vista. When I boot from the Windows XP install disc, it says that It cannot locate my hard drive. My hard drive is a Western Digital WD1200BEVS. I don't know what to do. Have any ideas?

Sounds like you need a SATA driver disk for Windows XP to see your hard drive.

[Khakilang]

I don't know whether it is the hardware drivers that are giving problem. A lot of hardware does support Window XP unless it is service pack 3 you are installing. Especially the audio HD drivers. But once you get the network card install I think you can download most of the drivers from the internet. Lastly you have 4 years to go until they totally stop supporting the Window XP. So enjoy it while you can. If not go for Window 7.

[HappinessNow]

I just built a new computer for the wife, and installed Windows on it as she needs it to be fully compatible with her work environment.

Installing Windows XP is just about the worst computer experience you can possibly have. Ugh! I started yesterday afternoon and it's still not done. I'd almost forgotten how horrible it was to install.I found an XP install rather straight forward and simple, not that bad at all...not as pleasurable as a Linux or BSD install but not that bad. :P

[Maupertus]

The only thing that is really annoying about installing Windows XP is the lack of support for things like SATA (and if you want to be very modern, usb installation of drivers etc)

I wouldn't let my mother try her hand at it, but then again, with partitioning a standard part of the process, I wouldn't let my mother install Ubuntu as well.

I have installed 3.1, XP, Vista and 7, and have to say that where Vista was a very strange experience, 7 works great and that is in part because it's back to the no-options-no-frills simplicity of XP. Now, for me...the nerd...that's exactly what I hate, but I think it suits most.

Then again, I've never got what everybody's problem is with the whole "Installation Experience" I didn't have any problems with Warty of Hoary, and I didn't have any with Lucid.

[Paqman]

Ubuntu forces me to upgrade every 6 months


Ain't nobody forcing you. LTS releases are supported for three years on the desktop. Hopping onto the six monthly cycle is totally optional.

[clanky]

Installing any OS from scratch can be a pain depending on your hardware, installing an old OS on new hardware is not going to be an easy ride, any OS which outdates the hardware it is being installed on is unlikely to have drivers for hardware which didn't exist when the OS was made.

[julio_cortez]

I found an XP install rather straight forward and simple, not that bad at all...not as pleasurable as a Linux or BSD install but not that bad. :P
That's true. Kubuntu can be installed and configured even by a child, but also XP is quite as much as easy to install.
I find Windows 7's installer even simplier to be honest, apart from the fact it's slow as hell and I don't know why.
The main difference is that once done the install, setting up the system in Linux is just a series of apt-get calls, while setting up Windows to be fully functional requires drivers, software (even the basics like an office suite or burning software) and various additional things.


Installing any OS from scratch can be a pain depending on your hardware, installing an old OS on new hardware is not going to be an easy ride, any OS which outdates the hardware it is being installed on is unlikely to have drivers for hardware which didn't exist when the OS was made.
Spot on. If you install XP SP2 on a 5-years-old machine it will probably auto-recognize a good 2/3 of the hardware. Try installing it on a brand new machine and you'll struggle a lot more.
it's sad to say, but XP has got old.

[Johnsie]

Installing Windows is easy. Installing non-included drivers in Windows is alot easier than doing it in Linux. Just double clicking an icon is pretty simple compared to messing around with config files or the linux kernel.

[adeypoop]

Ubuntu forces me to upgrade every 6 months by being so stylish and cool, open and free that i can't resist.

I agree with you paqman, installing windows is a big pain, especially if finding drivers is tricky which it can be with certain brands.

In fact it was after a painful reinstall of windows, which incidentally wouldn't let me install without first removing all my linux partitions that i decided to stop dual booting and just use linux. never looked back

[CharlesA]

I have Windows Vista RC2 installed on my new Gateway laptop and I'm trying to install Windows XP on it. However, when I insert the CD and open the setup it says that I cannot install an older version of Windows over Windows Vista. When I boot from the Windows XP install disc, it says that It cannot locate my hard drive. My hard drive is a Western Digital WD1200BEVS. I don't know what to do. Have any ideas?

I run into that problem all the time on newer machines when I need to install XP/Server 2003 on them. The BIOS is set for ACHI and XP doesn't support that out of the box - you need to find a driver for your motherboard/system or set the "SATA Mode" to IDE or Legacy to get it working.

@OP: What I usually do is start the install, then walk away and do something else. I think I only needed to install chipset, sound, and video drivers on the last XP install I did at home. I do image the machines with clonezilla when the install is complete, so I don't have to do a reinstall again. Saves me a hell of a lot of time. :)

[Paqman]

Installing Windows is easy.

Hey, I never said that it was difficult. Just that it's a pain. I've got all the drivers I need to get started the disk that came with the mobo, so that wasn't an issue. It just takes ages to install all 20 or 30 drivers and apps one-by-one, and you can't automate the process on Windows. Which sucks badly.

I don't like faffing about with OSes. I find sitting in front of a machine clicking next, next, next until my hair reaches to the floor and I die of old age to be a pretty unsatisfying experience. Folks who like to tinker about with PCs would probably find it less grating than me, but personally I can think of a lot of stuff i'd rather be doing.

[CharlesA]

I thought you could add packages to install after the installation is completed when using nLite.

[Diluted]

Hey, I never said that it was difficult. Just that it's a pain. I've got all the drivers I need to get started the disk that came with the mobo, so that wasn't an issue. It just takes ages to install all 20 or 30 drivers and apps one-by-one, and you can't automate the process on Windows. Which sucks badly.
Some drivers and applications have silent switches, so you might want to investigate that and then put it in a batch file.

[Paqman]

Some drivers and applications have silent switches, so you might want to investigate that and then put it in a batch file.

I'll be imaging the install once it's complete.

[CharlesA]

Images are so very nice.

[frncz]

Just having to install a 25-digit identification code when installing XP is a pain, apart from having to remember where I last wrote it down.
Also, getting the updates to work takes a long time. Yesterday, there were 70 updates that needed to be downloaded when I installed XP in virtualbox on my Ubuntu machine. Several required keyboard prompts for approval and installation.

And then, I had to repeat a similarly long process to install Office!

The reason why I need XP and Office is because I need Solver in Excel. The openoffice Calc equivalent does not work properly or runs very, very slowly (even the Sun beta version), on my large data files.

On the other hand, Calc and gnumeric handle more than 400k rows, whereas Excel is limited at 32k rows.

[cascade9]

I thought you could add packages to install after the installation is completed when using nLite.

You can. Makes things a lot easier IMO. Yet another reason why I like nLite :)

[CharlesA]

You can. Makes things a lot easier IMO. Yet another reason why I like nLite :)
That's good to know. I wonder if I should use nLite more, but since I image all my machine after 1 install, I don't think it would save me a huge amount of time. :p

[cascade9]

It might not save you much time, but IMO is it worth it. Then again, I like minimal installs on linux, and I see stripping out Windows XP with nLite as a hard way to achive a similar, if not as dramatic, effect.

Its probably not really worth it if you just wawnt to preinstall the hotfixes and a few programs/drivers. Unless you really have to have a internet conenction the whole install process and need nLite to install secfurity fixes before the install. I dont know why you would want to do that, but it could happen for some reason I know nothing about.

[cascade9]

Gah! again I have this happen. Thats the 2nd time I've got a error on tryign to post in 2 days...last time I got a 'database error' page, this time 'proxy error'. No, I'm not using a proxy :lolflag:

If a kind mod/admin see this, feel free to delete this post. No, I'm not reporting myself for abuse :lolflag:

[CharlesA]

Good idea. Thanks.