Looks like Dapper may not get to compete with Vista (until 2007?)

[BoyOfDestiny]

Windows Vista delayed (except for business users... not sure how that works...) :twisted:

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060321-6433.html

[s|k]

Windows Vista delayed (except for business users... not sure how that works...) :twisted:

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060321-6433.html
It wont be Dapper then, by then it will be Furry Ferrit, or something.

[tritratroll]

I'm confused.
Didn't delays and announcements of features that would be dropped go hand in hand in the last couple of years when it comes to longhorn?

[Zeroangel]

Excellent news. It means that Vista will be released only after dapper+1, in other words we will have an even better OS then dapper to compete with Vista.

Hopefully CUPS and Networking will be working flawlessly by then.

[tikal26]

whoa:
That would make it how many years before the last release?
I think that it would be bettwer we would have a solid and stable ubuntu by then and kubuntu might have some preview of kde4.0 by then.Anyway I also wonder how gnome would be since I believe that its getting better and better every release and with the graphical tools that Ubuntu adds is just nice.

[briancurtin]

hey every 3 days when they announce a delay, lets post about it.

[s|k]

whoa:
That would make it how many years before the last release?
I think that it would be bettwer we would have a solid and stable ubuntu by then and kubuntu might have some preview of kde4.0 by then.Anyway I also wonder how gnome would be since I believe that its getting better and better every release and with the graphical tools that Ubuntu adds is just nice.
Were you the guy that replied to me on the digg comments? :P

[Buffalo Soldier]

Hope it's not just a tactic to make us take our sweet time and then ambush us with an early release of Vista.

[tikal26]

Were you the guy that replied to me on the digg comments? :P
I don't know?
what digg comment?
Its later here and I have not gotten enough sleep so I might be forgetting stuff.
And by the way I am not a guy. Maybe I'll make a nice girly avatar.

[BoyOfDestiny]

whoa:
That would make it how many years before the last release?
I think that it would be bettwer we would have a solid and stable ubuntu by then and kubuntu might have some preview of kde4.0 by then.Anyway I also wonder how gnome would be since I believe that its getting better and better every release and with the graphical tools that Ubuntu adds is just nice.

6 years since XP at that point... Gnome has been getting better (feels snappier in dapper).

[3rdalbum]

6 months of delay for Vista = 12 more yet-to-be-discovered security flaws that allow hackers to remotely take control of XP computers... :p

[AlphaMack]

No chairs sustained any injuries in the wake of the announcement.

[Zeroangel]

http://www.bzuniverse.com/%7Ezeroangel/misc_images/flying-chair-linux.jpg

[darrenrxm]

In terms of money spent developing Dapper vs Vista. Dapper wins hands down by a long shot. I wouldn't be surprised if Microsoft spent 100 million creating and marketing vista.

[Stormy Eyes]

In terms of money spent developing Dapper vs Vista. Dapper wins hands down by a long shot. I wouldn't be surprised if Microsoft spent 100 million creating and marketing vista.

Which is probably chickenfeed to Microsoft.

[kleeman]

It's not going to be chickenfeed for all the suckers who have to upgrade their rigs to Pentium 5.0Ghz though to get this hog to fly LOL LOL.

[graabein]

http://www.bzuniverse.com/%7Ezeroangel/misc_images/flying-chair-linux.jpg

Nice one Zeroangel.

We get dapper before summer and dapper+1 around October and still the Windows fanboys have to wait 2 or 3 more months. I kind of like it.

[Paulus]

Does this mean KDE 4 will be out before vista?

btw this is definatly true ~ http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/default.stm

[Admiral Valdemar]

It's not going to be chickenfeed for all the suckers who have to upgrade their rigs to Pentium 5.0Ghz though to get this hog to fly LOL LOL.

With respect, Vista's specs are nowhere near that of modern games, and any OEM machine today can run the basics without the pretty features. The argument against Vista from a graphical point is stupid. There are far better aspects of the system to attack if you want to show it up for being flawed, just don't bother with the hardware specs (it's not like Vista will force you to use full Aero anymore than Dapper will force you to use Xgl with Compiz).

Besides, I doubt many were too upset over this given the length of time this has been delayed anyway, another few months won't matter. I'm curious to know exactly what is going on though (putting Sinofski in a lead role is a good move, given he worked on Office and Office is the de facto best MS product overall, no matter how crappy you may think their OS base can be).

[kleeman]

With respect, Vista's specs are nowhere near that of modern games, and any OEM machine today can run the basics without the pretty features. The argument against Vista from a graphical point is stupid. There are far better aspects of the system to attack if you want to show it up for being flawed, just don't bother with the hardware specs (it's not like Vista will force you to use full Aero anymore than Dapper will force you to use Xgl with Compiz).

Besides, I doubt many were too upset over this given the length of time this has been delayed anyway, another few months won't matter. I'm curious to know exactly what is going on though (putting Sinofski in a lead role is a good move, given he worked on Office and Office is the de facto best MS product overall, no matter how crappy you may think their OS base can be).
And why would an average Joe be tempted to upgrade if none of the gee whiz graphics features (which I am sure will be a major part of the advertising campaign) cannot be enabled. It might be a bit more stable but if I was an ordinary customer I would shrug my shoulders and say "XP is good enough".

And if I was a corporate customer I would be asking: Do I want to pay all those additional license fees for a marginal update? Time to switch to Linux....

[Admiral Valdemar]

And why would an average Joe be tempted to upgrade if none of the gee whiz graphics features (which I am sure will be a major part of the advertising campaign) cannot be enabled. It might be a bit more stable but if I was an ordinary customer I would shrug my shoulders and say "XP is good enough".

There we have the crux of the problem: why upgrade? MS is touting Vista as being far more secure and stable than XP and offering better peace of mind rather than a whole load of new features (which we know have been supposedly meant for Codename Cairo at first). Sooner or later, DX10 based GPUs and OEM PCs with Vista preloaded will be around, which is afterall, the main way MS gets their OS out there. I predict most will stick with XP, given there's little MS is really pushing for Vista that XP doesn't already deliver, bar Aero and WinFS. So any smart person will stick with XP, as will companies who most likely have Win2k3 anyway, if not a *nix distro. It will probably be a system that only takes off thanks to OEM installs and gamers who want a new rig to take advantage of the new DirectX system which requires Vista anyway.


And if I was a corporate customer I would be asking: Do I want to pay all those additional license fees for a marginal update? Time to switch to Linux....

Likely the more intelligent coroporate entities will acknowledge that Vista brings little to the table that MS originally proposed with Longhorn and either stick with their current Windows server, or switch to OSS releases.

[NoWhereMan]

good news (for us :P)
Vista delayed http://slashdot.org/articles/06/03/21/2331210.shtml

bye

[beercz]

Dapper competing with Vista?

Didn't think there was any competition here.

For me Dapper wins hands down :-)

[jc87]

Don´t forget that Dapper +1 will be a dirty release , so at the first months when Vista came out we will have Dapper VS Vista , until we have Dapper +2.

But Vista probably will only have a good user base by the time off Dapper + 4 , so we already won;).

[Arktis]

I wonder if this has anything to do with the outrageous hardware demands vista has which I've been hearing about (graphics boards, anyone?). Perhaps they just want to allow more time for people to upgrade, so that they don't look so terrible.

But hey, good news. More time for Ubuntu to get polished. It gets better all the time. This means that by the time Vista is out, XGL desktop goodness will be in full swing! This of course also means more time for ReactOS to get off the ground. Last time I checked, they were over 60% done with the code audit (a huge jump from 15% only a while earlier).

[imagine]

Hope it's not just a tactic to make us take our sweet time and then ambush us with an early release of Vista.
No, it's not.
As the announcement says Vista needs to be delayed until the security problems are fixed. In other words, Windows Vista will never be released.

This becomes clear when you look at the release schedule for Vista:
In July 2001 MS announced that Windows .NET will never see light but instead a product called Windows Longhorn is going ship in 2002 or 2003.
Then in April 2002 they said that Windows Longhorn won't be finished until the end of 2003.
One year later, in May 2003, they somehow changed their opinion and delayed Lognhorn until 2005.
This announcement was unfortunately only valid for six months, then Longhorn was rescheduled for 2006.
In May 2004 Microsoft informed the world that one of the core components of the new Windows version - the filesystem WinFS - will be removed in order to meet the release date in 2006. According to Microsofts Vice-President they will need *another* three years after the release of Longhorn to finish WinFS.
In 2005 Microsoft changed the name of Windows Longhorn to Vista and said that the release date won't be in the first half of the next year.
In March 2006 they delayed Windows Vista again until 2007.

I'm interested in what people think, when is another item added to this list? July? Or not until October?
Source code which grew over years or even decades in directions that nobody did foresee becomes unmaintable. You change some lines of code here and effects show up in completely different, arbitrary areas. If Microsoft needs five or six years to get hold of the problems in their currently developed operating system, how many years will they need for the next version? I wouldn't be surprised if Microsoft went down the Apple way in the near future and kicked out their current system to replace it with something else, new, incompatible.

[tikal26]

I am strating to see the open source model working. I mena I have tons of software that keep on getting delay. For example, I owe Maxwell render and as many know it is super delayed, but a few weeks ago they realeses indigo which is not necessarily open source, but the coder takes the users' opinios very serius and some users are helping him with a stand alone interface, and I am amazed at the amount of work that they are producing. Also, other renderers like sunflow are opne source and they are deveoping at an amazing rate while I sit and wait for any info on my render. And finally Ubuntu I started using it about a year ago and the amount of polish and improvements that went form a six month release just amases me. I mean I remember upgrading from windows to windows and the only diff was some speed and graphic look, but ubuntu, kubunt, xubuntu are just getting amazing. when I first started using linux my familiy looked at it as a sort of utopian move by my part, but I made a testing partition od dapper and showed them XGL and DApprea and they are amazed how fast thing get better. Enough of my rants.

[kleeman]

Here's an amusing quote (courtesy of El Inq) from M$ employees about the Vista delay:

"Vista is the biggest software development failure of all time, IBM's office vision was the previous record holder, with $900 million spent… Vista has cost five or six billion,"

Other comments called for the head of "Monkey Boy" while others said that it is time for a shareholder revolt.

Sounds promising :cool: :D :eek:

[BoyOfDestiny]

Seems Office 2007 is also set to release with Vista now... As the article mentions, perhaps people would install it early on XP, and decide there was no need for Vista...

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060324-6456.html

[imagine]

As to back up my own posting, here's a posting from someone who claims to be a Microsoft employee:


Today's announcement is of course no surprise to anyone inside MS. The only surprise is that it was such a short delay announced.

Basically we do not believe Vista will make January 2007 or even March 2007. Anyone with any access knows what a frankenstein's monster NT is on the inside. At some point there is a law of diminishing returns trying to do anything to it at all, it seems like that limit is being reached today. The release is pushed back because of bugs but fixing those bugs will create more bugs. It is just godawful to be honest. And the process gets in the way at every step.

At some point we will have to do something and i know at least some in my team privately agree with me. We will have to throw out everything and start again. This is what Apple did with OSX, and sure it was painful, but it worked and now they're kicking our asses. We should have done that in 2000. Now it is even more obvious we should do it. Start again and just run a compatibility layer on top. Apple did it with classic why can't we???

IF we manage to ship vista at ALL then it is a miracle and the absolute last rev we can possible do working like this. It is insane the manhours wasted rearranging a house of cards. We need to START AGAIN PEOPLE.

After vista if we don't do this i am outta here. For every step forward there is a step back. After 5 years who can be proud of the actual distance forward they have come?http://minimsft.blogspot.com/2006/03/vista-2007-fire-leadership-now.html

Of course you'll never read something like that in a press announcement.