BSA: Software theft exceeded $51 billion in commercial value in 2009

[Sporkman]

Software theft exceeded $51 billion in commercial value in 2009, according to the BSA. IDC says lowering software piracy by just 10 percentage points during the next four years would create nearly 500,000 new jobs and pump $140 billion into "ailing economies." ...

http://www.networkworld.com/news/2010/051110-software-piracy.html?hpg1=bn

[Jay Car]

..."IDC says lowering software piracy by just 10 percentage points during the next four years would create nearly 500,000 new jobs and pump $140 billion into "ailing economies." ...

So, what they are saying is that if everyone started using Free software...Poof!...there'd be no more software pirates! Software piracy would drop 100% (why stop at 10%?), and those poor abused folks at the BSA could just disband, go home, get a hobby, and stop worrying.

I know we're all doing our best to help them with that endeavour.:P

[CharlesA]

I'm sure people would pirate free software too. :rolleyes:

[shazbut]

copyright infringement != theft
copied software != lost sale
a lie repeated many times != truth

Tripe like this makes me want to take up using open source software exclusively. Oh wait, I already did. Never mind.

Disclaimer
I'm not defending the infringers, just pointing out the logical fallacy of the BSA arguments.

[KiwiNZ]

The affects of Software (and music/video) piracy on Economies , Incomes and Employment is huge and very damaging.

[phrostbyte]

So, what they are saying is that if everyone started using Free software...Poof!...there'd be no more software pirates! Software piracy would drop 100% (why stop at 10%?), and those poor abused folks at the BSA could just disband, go home, get a hobby, and stop worrying.

I know we're all doing our best to help them with that endeavour.:P

Well probably not according their their "calculations". They probably count people who use FOSS as pirates.

At least the IIPA (an organisation that the BSA is a member of) seems to not make any major distinction between the two with regards to their complaints to the US Trade Representative.

[earthpigg]

The affects of Software (and music/video) piracy on Economies , Incomes and Employment is huge and very damaging.

non-corporate source?

[Barrucadu]

Oh, using the silly metric of amount of pirated software = number of lost sales, I see…

[ssj6akshat]

The cause of software piracy is just greed.Average user thinks 'I can't buy Photoshop,I have no use for it but it would be awesome if I can get it for free'.He wasn't going to buy Photoshop anyway,so it isn't a lost sale.If anyone has a use for a particular software he will buy it otherwise the software industry would have been bankrupt.

[KiwiNZ]

The cause of software piracy is just greed.Average user thinks 'I can't buy Photoshop,I have no use for it but it would be awesome if I can get it for free'.He wasn't going to buy Photoshop anyway,so it isn't a lost sale.If anyone has a use for a particular software he will buy it otherwise the software industry would have been bankrupt.

Interesting view point but very flawed

[chappajar]

http://www.networkworld.com/news/2010/051110-software-piracy.html?hpg1=bn

Unfortunately this is based on the very silly and flawed assumption that every pirated copy is a lost sale.

[t0p]

Unfortunately this is based on the very silly and flawed assumption that every pirated copy is a lost sale.

Unfortunately the content industries always make this silly, flawed assumption. Look at how the recording industry stings "filesharers". They look at how many tracks/albums/whatever the filesharer has offered to share, multiply this by some mysterious and wonderful metric known only to lawyers, and come up with some massive sum that they want as "damages". It's all based on "potential sales".

A crazy system. But the courts, lawyers and recording industry all like it, so I guess it'll be here for a while yet.

[KiwiNZ]

The Pirates are just as flawed and crazy with their defense.:rolleyes:

[Swagman]

Quite a few of my friends wont change over to linux simply because they can't run their pirated software.

So I guess the answer is to ban windows !!

[Mike BFD]

...Just an example.

One online library specialising in modern literature (a "local language" one so not worldwide-known), after being blamed for "piracy" several times, called writers (authors) to register and get paid every time their books are downloaded.

The downloads therefore stopped being free (at least for the books of "registered" writers). Has it stopped anybody? Actually no. People keep on downloading and reading. As one user said in the library's blog, "It's not a catastrophe for me to pay a couple of bucks to my favorite writer. I at least know for sure he will get paid for his job, not his agent or any other intermediary done nothing for me" (c)

That should work with music, too.

It's more complicated with software, as it's oftenly made with pretty large groups of people...

[PartisanEntity]

Recently, I came across an article on the Der Standard newspaper (in German) about an idea bein floated by the Austrian Green party currently, whereby a "cultural flat rate" could be levied on internet users (in Austria).

The money would flow towards a fund from which copyright holders could be paid.

I must say I like the idea.

I posted about it briefly here:
http://www.cognitivecombine.com/2010/05/greens-in-austria-offer-cultural-flat-rate-as-solution-to-piracy/

[Mike BFD]

Recently, I came across an article on the Der Standard newspaper (in German) about an idea bein floated by the Austrian Green party currently, whereby a "cultural flat rate" could be levied on internet users (in Austria).

The money would flow towards a fund from which copyright holders could be paid.

I must say I like the idea.

I posted about it briefly here:
http://www.cognitivecombine.com/2010/05/greens-in-austria-offer-cultural-flat-rate-as-solution-to-piracy/
Interesting. And reminds me the Finnish "TV tax": everybody owning a TVset (no matter if you ever turn it on or not!) is subject to approx. Eur 260 annual taxation.
Don't think a TV is a good thing? Or just don't need it? Great, give the "box" to your mother-in-law as a gift and pay nothing))

Regarding the Austrian Greens' idea, there's only one problem I see here:
- It's OK for people downloading music/video, as they wouldn't be "pirates" anymore.
- It's OK for people purchasing music/video on CD/DVD, as they would save money downloading stuff instead of buying it from "hard" shops.
- But what about those "marginals" who do use internet but do not like music, home video etc.??? Those are just few - but their rights should be protected, too!

It's of course impossible to prove a person does or does not download any media stuff))

[ssj6akshat]

Hmmn we should change BSA from Business Software Alliance to Bull **** Assumptions.Better IMO

[handy]

The affects of Software (and music/video) piracy on Economies , Incomes and Employment is huge and very damaging.

Perhaps, but nowhere as damaging as some of these industries make out:

http://blog.wolfire.com/2010/05/Another-view-of-game-piracy

[asddf]

The figures are complete crap, they base them on assuming that everyone who pirates would of bought, I wouldn't of bought any of the 1000s of movies/tv shows I torrent, they've not lost a penny, I just wouldn't of been that bothered about watching the movie if it cost.

[MooPi]

The immorality of stealing it because my neighbor gave it to me or I'm not going to get caught bothers me. Same goes for folks that piggy back off their neighbors unsecured wireless signal. It has become so pervasive that people become numb to the theft and it doesn't register as being wrong. I know perfectly nice folks that would never shop lift or steal from a retail store or lie and cheat, but they download media content and software without notice to their flawed ethos.

[MooPi]

Recently, I came across an article on the Der Standard newspaper (in German) about an idea bein floated by the Austrian Green party currently, whereby a "cultural flat rate" could be levied on internet users (in Austria).

The money would flow towards a fund from which copyright holders could be paid.

I must say I like the idea.

I posted about it briefly here:
http://www.cognitivecombine.com/2010/05/greens-in-austria-offer-cultural-flat-rate-as-solution-to-piracy/
That punishes the righteous who've done nothing to be taxed for their immoral neighbors and fellow citizens.

[98cwitr]

"The existence of the sea means the existence of pirates."

http://www.coolnsmart.com/pirate_sayings/

[MooPi]

The figures are complete crap, they base them on assuming that everyone who pirates would of bought, I wouldn't of bought any of the 1000s of movies/tv shows I torrent, they've not lost a penny, I just wouldn't of been that bothered about watching the movie if it cost.
Part of the problem is you don't even think your in the wrong to begin with.

[JDShu]

Part of the problem is you don't even think your in the wrong to begin with.

What s/he did is wrong, but the point is not. Not every pirated copy is a lost sale. This is a fact.

[zekopeko]

The immorality of stealing it because my neighbor gave it to me or I'm not going to get caught bothers me. Same goes for folks that piggy back off their neighbors unsecured wireless signal. It has become so pervasive that people become numb to the theft and it doesn't register as being wrong. I know perfectly nice folks that would never shop lift or steal from a retail store or lie and cheat, but they download media content and software without notice to their flawed ethos.

Has it occurred to you that perhaps other rules apply to something that can be infinitely reproduced?
Or that perhaps the concept of property is flawed?


That punishes the righteous who've done nothing to be taxed for their immoral neighbors and fellow citizens.

"Taxes are what we pay for a civilized society." - Oliver Wendell Holmes, former Justice of the United States Supreme Court

[Shakz]

Since I started using Linux....I don't steal anything anymore....hell I even buy MUSIC!
I wait for the movies to come out on dvd and come in the mail via netflix instead of torrents.
It turned me into an honest man. How ironic is that...especially when the main platform against Linux support is piracy/licensing/DRM!

[98cwitr]

Has it occurred to you that perhaps other rules apply to something that can be infinitely reproduced?
Or that perhaps the concept of property is flawed?


Well put, interesting philosophy.

[betrunkenaffe]

KiwiNZ: Rather than the quick quotes, perhaps your full thoughts and opinions?

That was a good read and makes sense. Even those that I know who pirate games still purchase ones that are worthwhile. I took Oblivion from a buddy a while ago and played it alot. Purchased it shortly afterwards since it was a worthwhile game which I felt the developers should get paid for.

[swoll1980]

Theft is theft. While I don't believe a download of Adobe Photoshop is a lost sale in most cases, I'm sure there are tons of professional photographers that steal it as well. These are lost sales. I'm sure there are tons of people running a stolen copies of Windows xp that they would have otherwise payed for. I think the effect is more felt in the cd/dvd markets. They loose a huge amount of sales to illegal downloads that would otherwise be paying customers. PC games are another huge loss for companies. These are also potential sales that went down the drain.

[swoll1980]

That was a good read and makes sense. Even those that I know who pirate games still purchase ones that are worthwhile. I took Oblivion from a buddy a while ago and played it alot. Purchased it shortly afterwards since it was a worthwhile game which I felt the developers should get paid for.

I don't believe this for a second.If you want to try it get the demo version. I know a ton of pirates, and none of them pay for games they like. This is a silly excuse thieves use to try to justify poor behavior. If your going to steal do it, but don't try to convince people that it is ok. Everyone makes mistakes, no one is perfect, but at least take responsibility for your misdeeds.

[sydbat]

The immorality of stealing it because my neighbor gave it to meThis part here is most bothersome to me. If I go out and buy something, but find that I do not want it anymore (for whatever reason), this bit of "logic" dictates that I have to destroy it/throw it away, instead of allowing someone else enjoy it. Alternately, if my neighbour/friend/relative just borrows it, this makes both of us criminals and pirates according to this perspective. And this is where all of the arguments FOR DRM, anti-piracy legislation, software patents, etc fall apart.

Think about it - my wife and I have lots of DVD's and books and CD's. There are a few of these that we no longer want, so we have given them away. Also, we have lent some them out to people so they can enjoy them too. Does this make my wife and I criminals who are "pirating" these things? Does it make people we have given/lent these things to pirates? How about if we borrow something from someone? How about when we have people over to watch a DVD? Where do used book/software stores fit in?

Large, greedy corporations want politicians to believe that if their record profits each year are not growing by 100%, then everyone is a "thief" of some sort, so 'laws' are passed to stop people from sharing anything. At least in a certain country...

[asddf]

Companies have the option, TV, movies free with adverts or we torrent it, it's their choice.

I'm sick of this crap about the poor industries.

Brad Pitt earns 20 million USD per film, so anyone who actually believes these industry are going to die while there paying out 20 million for one guy! need to get some common sense.

[KiwiNZ]

Companies have the option, TV, movies free with adverts or we torrent it, it's their choice.

I'm sick of this crap about the poor industries.

Brad Pitt earns 20 million USD per film, so anyone who actually believes these industry are going to die while there paying out 20 million for one guy! need to get some common sense.

I want your car to drive 10,000 kms free
Use your TV for 3 years free
Oh and your House

And 50% of your savings :rolleyes:

[earthpigg]

your points are all moot, i have a video with a cute bunny rabbit.

http://questioncopyright.org/minute_memes/copying_is_not_theft

[JDShu]

I'm a little depressed that people don't seem to be understanding how ridiculous the analysis is in the OP's article.

By the way, the study is by an organization known as the "Business Software Alliance".

[KiwiNZ]

I'm a little depressed that people don't seem to be understanding how ridiculous the analysis is in the OP's article.

By the way, the study is by an organization known as the "Business Software Alliance".

In your opinion ;)

[Jay Car]

The affects of Software (and music/video) piracy on Economies , Incomes and Employment is huge and very damaging.

In what way, exactly?

Personally, I believe those same companies would be absolutely freaked out and terrified if no one ever bothered to share their software at all. And yes, I'm serious.

Believe me, I've been around in this world long enough to know that if some of those businesses' "Economies, Incomes and Employment" (E.I.&E. lol) were to belly-up, the world would move on just fine. I doubt we'd even miss 'em much. I'm sure we'd find better replacements to their products in short order, because there'd no longer be barriers to creating them.

I'd prefer that no one use BSA members' products, either by purchasing or sharing. I think we'd be better off without that organization and its members existing at all.

[JDShu]

In your opinion ;)

The assertion that software companies lost $51 billion is absurd. The conclusion is wrong. This is not an opinion.

[KiwiNZ]

The assertion that software companies lost $51 billion is absurd. The conclusion is wrong. This is not an opinion.

opinion [əˈpɪnjən]
n
1. judgment or belief not founded on certainty or proof
2. the prevailing or popular feeling or view public opinion
3. evaluation, impression, or estimation of the value or worth of a person or thing
4. an evaluation or judgment given by an expert a medical opinion

n opinion is a subjective statement or thought about an issue or topic, and is the result of emotion or interpretation of facts. An opinion may be supported by an argument, although people may draw opposing opinions from the same set of facts. Opinions rarely change without new arguments being presented. However, it can be reasoned that one opinion is better supported by the facts than another by analysing the supporting arguments. [1]
An opinion may be the result of a person's perspective, understanding, particular feelings, beliefs, and desires. In casual use, the term opinion may refer to unsubstantiated information, in contrast to knowledge and fact-based beliefs.

[JDShu]

I'm really starting to wonder if I'm discussing the same thing as everybody else.

Still, I guess if people want to believe that every dollars worth of software that is pirated is a dollar that the industry could have earned, it is their choice, and really shouldn't get to me. I'll accept it as a fact of life and move on.

[agnes]

software piracy by country (http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_sof_pir_rat-crime-software-piracy-rate)
Some priest here once said "If you are too poor buy food, it is okay for you to steal a bread". Then other people protested and said "If they would save up, and buy a bread, the economy would only get better, so they would too". Obviously it never reached consensus.

[samjh]

Or that perhaps the concept of property is flawed?

The concept of property?

"Property" is simple a relationships between a person or organisation and a "thing". The "thing" could be land, a house, a piece of furniture, a book, a musical composition, a movie, or a software package. That thing can be the property of multiple entities (human and corporate), who have different "property rights", depending on their relationship with it.

I don't see how the very flexible concept of property is flawed per se, when it has existed since the beginning of human society, even societies that reject the notion of private ownership.


copyright infringement != theft


True. But it is a type of wrongdoing, which should be addressed.

[pookiebear]

I'm a little depressed that people don't seem to be understanding how ridiculous the analysis is in the OP's article.

By the way, the study is by an organization known as the "Business Software Alliance".

Not and organization, they are a big software reseller (my opinion). They get their customers from an anonymous phone call from some disgruntled employee...the best salesforce in the history of the world.