I hate it when people only try out Ubuntu in a VM...

[McMichael96]

Yeah, people will try out Ubuntu (or any Linux distro for that matter) in a VM. See their like :I'll try it out in a VM" Then when they try it out they are like "I can't run Compiz" or "It's to slow". Windows Xp/Vista/7 would not be any faster in them VMs. I think they should try it out on the main host, not a VM. They could use WuBi.....

[swoll1980]

Why do you care what they do with their computers? Let them think it's slow. You can't get upset about what other people do with their computers.

[McMichael96]

Why do you care what they do with their computers? Let them think it's slow. You can't get upset about what other people do with their computers.

Just posting whats on my mind, I know to many people like that...

[Chrysantine]

Well, I try releases in a VM because I'm not running them as my main system but merely to observe what tools they've developed and how their configuration abilities have improved.

For example I noted Ubuntu's GNOME had considerably different font rendering to that of SuSE and examined what things were made differently - live and learn.

[swoll1980]

Just posting whats on my mind, I know to many people like that...

What I'm saying is don't let it bother you. There are many people in this world that are never going to give Linux a fair shake. That's just the way it is. It's not worth getting angry about.

[RiceMonster]

Big deal. Let them do what they want. Why do you even care if they like it or not?

[McMichael96]

I guess y'all got a point. All well, they don't know what their missing! lol

[WinterRain]

I use Vbox all the time, but I don't expect it to be the same as a regular install, performance wise.

[samalex]

I think the concern here isn't that people run Ubuntu in VM and complain, but rather others may take these 'reviews' to heart and spread inaccurate performance/benchmark comments about Ubuntu.

I've honestly never seen any complaints from someone in this regard, but I could see how someone who doesn't know much about VM could draw inaccurate conclusions if they did try Ubuntu in VirtualBox or VMWare and didn't see the performance they hoped for.

Sam

[KdotJ]

I do however see what you're saying, when you're trying to explain how good ubuntu/Linux is to someone, so they go and try it in a VM and then don't get the full experience and therefore don't draw a correct conclusion. But there's nothing you can do about it, if these people really wanted to try out Linux, then they would dedicate some had disk space.

As a side note, VMs are fantastic for so many things!

[swoll1980]

I think the concern here isn't that people run Ubuntu in VM and complain, but rather others may take these 'reviews' to heart and spread inaccurate performance/benchmark comments about Ubuntu.

I've honestly never seen any complaints from someone in this regard, but I could see how someone who doesn't know much about VM could draw inaccurate conclusions if they did try Ubuntu in VirtualBox or VMWare and didn't see the performance they hoped for.

Sam

That's just the way it is though. This is the way the world works. If some one tells me Linux is slow because they ran it in a VM, I would think they must not be very knowledgeable about how these things work. Anyone that wants to try Linux is going to whether people tell them it's slow, or not.

[aysiu]

Um, that isn't just the way it is, though. You can change that. You aren't just a passive observer of life. You are a participant.

If you can counter messages of "Linux is slow because I tried it in a VM and it was slow" with "Actually if you try it normally and not in a VM, it's fast" then more people who actually may benefit from switching to Linux are likely to give it a try. Not everyone will benefit from such a switch, and no one should imply everyone should use Linux. But there are many cases in which Linux is a viable option, and to have someone denied that option for no good reason is stupid when you can actually do something about it.

By allowing FUD to fester without protest, you are actually denying people choices, because they limit themselves due to misinformation. This is true about FUD with regard to Windows and Mac also, but in this case, it's about Linux.

[Crunchy the Headcrab]

Call me an optimist, but I think most people capable of understanding and using virtual machines, also understand that the performance of a guest machine and a host machine are not going to be equal.

[swoll1980]

By allowing FUD to fester without protest, you are actually denying people choices, because they limit themselves due to misinformation. This is true about FUD with regard to Windows and Mac also, but in this case, it's about Linux.

You're not denying them anything. If people are going to form an opinion about something before they try it for themselves, then they are denying themselves. If I refused to watch any movie that ever got a bad review, I would have never have seen a movie.

[kio_http]

Um, that isn't just the way it is, though. You can change that. You aren't just a passive observer of life. You are a participant.

If you can counter messages of "Linux is slow because I tried it in a VM and it was slow" with "Actually if you try it normally and not in a VM, it's fast" then more people who actually may benefit from switching to Linux are likely to give it a try. Not everyone will benefit from such a switch, and no one should imply everyone should use Linux. But there are many cases in which Linux is a viable option, and to have someone denied that option for no good reason is stupid when you can actually do something about it.

By allowing FUD to fester without protest, you are actually denying people choices, because they limit themselves due to misinformation. This is true about FUD with regard to Windows and Mac also, but in this case, it's about Linux.
Well said.

I do try things, like other distros etc "in a VM", I don't judge the speed in that way however.

E.g A while back I wanted to test old ubuntu releases that I never used. SO I tested all Kubuntu and Ubuntu releases prior to Dapper in a VM.

Funny you should mention it, but running in a VM was quite fast on my 3.6 GHz system.

[WinterRain]

Funny you should mention it, but running in a VM was quite fast on my 3.6 GHz system.

Yeah, my XP install in vbox is actually blazing fast. Only took 8 seconds to defrag. And yes, it needed it.

[aysiu]

You're not denying them anything. If people are going to form an opinion about something before they try it for themselves, then they are denying themselves. If I refused to watch any movie that ever got a bad review, I would have never have seen a movie. I disagree. You aren't denying anything to the people who actually tried in the VM, but you are denying an opportunity to people who may have thought about trying Linux but got multiple messages from people who had tried it that it is slow. And if people like you aren't going to counter those messages, those will be the dominant messages out there.

You're presenting a false dichotomy. Yes, you don't avoid all movies that get a bad review. But you also don't see every single movie out there to decide what movie to see. That defeats the point of a review.

Usually there are several factors involved in devoting two hours of your life to seeing a movie. It's usually a combination of marketing, aggregate reviews, pressure from friends, movie subject matter and actors, and timing.

There are far too many OSes out there. Few people are going to bother to try them all out, especially if they all get bad reviews.

Imagine if rumors got out that Toyotas had unintended acceleration problems, and Toyota instead of responding to those rumors said to themselves "Eh, whatever. If people don't want to give Toyotas a fair chance, there's nothing we can do." Uh, sales would plummet. The company would go bankrupt. Instead Toyota did the appropriate thing, which was to apologize, recall a whole bunch of vehicles, and then say they were working on improving quality control so it doesn't happen again.

[Old_Grey_Wolf]

Call me an optimist, but I think most people capable of understanding and using virtual machines, also understand that the performance of a guest machine and a host machine are not going to be equal.

I would like to think that people using VMs know the difference between Type 1 (bare metal) and Type 2 (hosted) hypervisors; however, it's so easy to set up that some may not. Then there are those that don't know if their processor supports virtual extensions, and run a hypervisor assuming it is a Type 1 when the hypervisor can run as Type 1 or Type 2. :D

[aysiu]

I would like to think that people using VMs know the difference between Type 1 (bare metal) and Type 2 (hosted) hypervisors; however, it's so easy to set up that some may not. I don't know what those are. And I've run plenty of distros in virtual machines.

[Timmer1240]

I tried it on wubi loved it but it would go down once in a while and Id have to reinstall wubi got sick of that shrank one of my windows partitions made room and gave Ubuntu a nice home on my hard drive!Ive got win xp win 7 and Ubuntu.Im on Ubuntu 99 percent of the time Its cool fast as hell and Im loving it!No more fighting viruses trojans maleware and all the crap that microcrash attracts!For those about to Ubuntu I salute you!Just take the plunge and install youll be glad You did!

[shipinomore]

I use VMware and do the linux bit in that environment but my want to see list deals with Wine. I would like to see Wine run a successful finance pkg. Beyond e-mail there are not that many things that most people do but finance is one of them.
Wine seems to cater to the gamers and that is good. But since 1993 they cannot get Quicken to run?
Larry

[gnupipe]

I hate it too. :sad:

[RiceMonster]

I disagree. You aren't denying anything to the people who actually tried in the VM, but you are denying an opportunity to people who may have thought about trying Linux but got multiple messages from people who had tried it that it is slow. And if people like you aren't going to counter those messages, those will be the dominant messages out there.

This implies users have a responsibility to gain more users.


Imagine if rumors got out that Toyotas had unintended acceleration problems, and Toyota instead of responding to those rumors said to themselves "Eh, whatever. If people don't want to give Toyotas a fair chance, there's nothing we can do." Uh, sales would plummet. The company would go bankrupt. Instead Toyota did the appropriate thing, which was to apologize, recall a whole bunch of vehicles, and then say they were working on improving quality control so it doesn't happen again.

That analogy would be all and fine if it were applied to Canonical employees, however, you're applying it to Ubuntu users. Why does it matter to me if someone else thinks the OS I use is slow?

[wilee-nilee]

Just posting whats on my mind, I know to many people like that...

I don't believe you, you are posting the conflation on your mind.

[aysiu]

This implies users have a responsibility to gain more users. No, it doesn't. It implies that those who would benefit from using Linux shouldn't get overwhelming and misleading messages discouraging them from trying it.

I don't think we should seek to convince people who should not use Linux to use Linux. But those for whom it is well suited should know it's an option. Spreading lies about how difficult it is to use or how poorly it performs does no one favors.


That analogy would be all and fine if it were applied to Canonical employees, however, you're applying it to Ubuntu users. Why does it matter to me if someone else thinks the OS I use is slow? See above.

It isn't just about thinking the OS is slow. It's about 1) judging it for being slow when it is not and 2) spreading the word to others that it is slow when it is not. If someone just thinks to herself "I think the OS RiceMonster uses is slow," then, yeah, what does that matter?

But if someone says "Let me give Linux a try in this VM," finds the performance slow and Compiz not working, and then posts a high-profile blog or tech "article" proclaiming Linux to be slow and Compiz to be too hard to use, and then no Linux users clarify that it's because it was run in a VM, then a lot of people curious about Linux and for whom a switch to Linux would be beneficial would read that blog or "article" and decide not to even give Linux a try--their loss, not yours.

So if your question is "Why should I care if people don't use the OS that's best for them?" then I would say we don't share assumptions about caring about other people. I care about other people, even strangers, and I do want them to get proper information and use what OS is best for them. It isn't about increasing marketshare. It's about finding the right fit. If someone chooses Windows for good reasons, great. She should choose Windows. If someone chooses Mac OS X for good reasons, also great. She should choose Mac OS X. If someone chooses Linux for good reasons, still great. But if someone should be using Linux but decides against trying it after reading lies about it, not great. That person should be using Linux.

I don't like lies spread about any OS, and I've seen them regarding all three major platforms, and I always try to counter the lies.

[Old_Grey_Wolf]

I don't know what those are. And I've run plenty of distros in virtual machines.

Thank you!

You have confirmed my suspicion that running VMs is so easy that many people can set them up without actually needing to know very much about how they work. They probably are not aware of the difference in how they are implemented. They probably don't know the performance difference between Type 1 or Type 2 hypervisors.

Thank you!

:)

[Frogs Hair]

It's disappointing when your excited about something and people won't give it a chance. I started with Wubi , and , at the time , new no one using Linux. I was lucky to find some good Wubi reviews that said it was a simple way to try Ubuntu .