Apple May Be Gunning for Open Source Codecs

[Dr. C]

In addition to waging war on Flash Apple May Be Gunning for Open Source Codecs (http://newteevee.com/2010/04/30/apple-may-be-gunning-for-open-source-codecs/) such as OGG and VP8

[Mr. Picklesworth]

With every word he writes, Steve Jobs looks more like Steve Ballmer :/

[KiwiNZ]

Another he said , she said, unsubstantiated piece of amateur web reporting.:rolleyes:

[pelle.k]

Funny how people point fingers. Microsoft are just as involved as Apple. Even google want's h264 for html5.
You should point your fingers at the software patent industry and the MPEG-LA instead. Read this: http://www.osnews.com/story/23236/Why_Our_Civilization_s_Video_Art_and_Culture_is_Th reatened_by_the_MPEG-LA

[wilee-nilee]

Another he said , she said, unsubstantiated piece of amateur web reporting.:rolleyes:
;)

[Foster Grant]

Here's the original site with Jobs' original e-mail, including the headers: http://hugoroy.eu/jobs-os.php

[zekopeko]

In addition to waging war on Flash Apple May Be Gunning for Open Source Codecs (http://newteevee.com/2010/04/30/apple-may-be-gunning-for-open-source-codecs/) such as OGG and VP8

Amazing. Steve Jobs apparently said that Theora isn't so patent free as people think it is and that some patent holders from MPEG-LA are building a pool of patents to try and attack them.

Somehow this gets turned into "OMG! Apple is attacking Theora!!!!".
No matter that all the quotes I've seen from him on this subject didn't involve Apple at all but other patent owners.

[wilee-nilee]

Here's the original site with Jobs' original e-mail, including the headers: http://hugoroy.eu/jobs-os.php

Said by a man who is responsible for the closed BSD kernel that Apple uses. I hear Fox News does solid reporting.

Apple Makes MS look like amateurs as far as proprietary control goes for their products. If Apple had made it's software available for a regular PC and down-loadable I suspect they would have a much larger share of the market and Mr Jobs would have some real Money like Bill Gates.

I like the description of Mr Jobs on NPR today, that some see him as a evil villain just sitting there petting his cat as he laughs in a evil way. Never used Apple, started with OS but have a couple of MS licenses now so I can help my friends.

[prodigy_]

Not surprising at all. People used to hate Bill Gates, but, considering all the power and influence he had, he was a saint.

I've always been saying that Apple is potentially way more evil and aggressive than M$. They only thing that pushed their ambitions back in the past was low market share and the uncertainty about PowerPC/MacOS future.

[Dr. C]

Amazing. Steve Jobs apparently said that Theora isn't so patent free as people think it is and that some patent holders from MPEG-LA are building a pool of patents to try and attack them.

Somehow this gets turned into "OMG! Apple is attacking Theora!!!!".
No matter that all the quotes I've seen from him on this subject didn't involve Apple at all but other patent owners.

Apple is part of the patent pool for AVC/H.264. http://www.mpegla.com/main/programs/AVC/Pages/Licensors.aspx

[Redache]

Apple as a company can be dreadful, but a lot of his points about Flash are valid and his points on Theora are also valid. Unless someone who is a maths genius can come up with a completely new codec that does not use any technology from other codecs there is always going to be the threat of patent litigation.

We have to understand that Google, Apple and Microsoft are trying to work on a sheet of known facts rather than put their feet into the murky water that is the Ogg Theora codec.

Theroa might be safe, but nobody is sure and the only way we'd find out is when it's installed in everyones browser. At least with H.264 we Know that it is protected and what the cost of distributing it is.

I hate the fact that Codecs are patentable and as a Non-American I am well aware that this probably wouldn't affect me(but probably for not much longer). Rather than hurl accusations at any of the companies it'd be better to continue campaigning for a dissolution to software patents.

[Dr. C]

We must also keep in mind that many of the companies that are accused are among the strongest supporters of software patents and lobby governments in support of software patents.

[prodigy_]

We have to understand that Google, Apple and Microsoft are trying to work on a sheet of known facts rather than put their feet into the murky water that is the Ogg Theora codec.
Working for Apple's PR department, are you?

[Redache]

Working for Apple's PR department, are you?


So trying to be unbiased and seeing it from different perspective means that I must work for X companies PR department?.

I'm as against software patents as any FOSS supporter, but I'm not going to pretend that Apple don't have a point about Theora. None of us KNOW if it's infringing on patents. We KNOW that h.264 is patented.

[Foster Grant]

Said by a man who is responsible for the closed BSD kernel that Apple uses. I hear Fox News does solid reporting.

I still don't understand why you and a couple of others are insulting solid reporting.

Here's some more solid reporting and analysis: http://www.osnews.com/story/23233/Jobs_Patent_Pool_Being_Assembled_To_Go_After_Theor a


I am quite shocked about this. It seems that after a decade of empty threats, the MPEG-LA is finally planning on making a legal move against Theora. Such a move will send a shockwave through the industry, and would open yet another front on the Apple-Google tug-of-war: Google, Mozilla, Opera, and Wikipedia are among some of the major names that implement Theora support and/or employ Theora.

A lot of pieces of the puzzle suddenly fall into place. Both Apple and Microsoft (as well as the MPEG-LA) have expressed concerns over Theora's legality, but these concerns were always empty, and never backed up by any facts. It now seems they knew more than we did.

It also explains why Google openly distanced itself from Theora; their legal department is probably aware of what's coming their way. It never made any real sense for Google to support H264, since Google is not part of the MPEG-LA, and thus, has to follow the whims of its biggest competitors (Apple and Microsoft).

[Redache]

Which kind of proves my point that H.264 is a known quantity whereas Theora could end up being killed.

[prodigy_]

So trying to be unbiased and seeing it from different perspective means that I must work for X companies PR department?
It's called irony, my friend. ;-) Because spreading FUD about Theora you're doing their job anyway.

[Redache]

It's called irony, my friend. ;-) Because spreading FUD about Theora you're doing their job anyway.


You'd have to be insane to not see Theora as a big target for Patent litigation. I'm not happy that h.264 is probably going to end up as the standard either, but I try and see things from equal perspectives rather than being a zealot either way.

[wilee-nilee]

I still don't understand why you and a couple of others are insulting solid reporting.


I am not insulting the reporting or you, that is how you perceive it as you think it is. It is information given about a subject that has so many variables and outliers that none of us really know all the facts.

If you actually knew me you would realize that I hold just about nothing as being concrete. So no matter what I say if a person thinks in a concrete manner with all the inherent dichotomies then they will perceive what I say as a opinion when in actuality it isn't.

[phrostbyte]

The bulk of H.264 was defined nearly 7 years ago. Because of how patents work (at least in the USA), patents at least on the core parts of H.264 will last no longer then 14 years, after which H.264 becomes a free format much like Ogg Theora (except without the FUD floating around it).

Plus I really doubt MPEG LA has some kind of anti-Linux agenda and is going to sue random bloggers for using H.264 or something absurd like that. They seem more interested in getting license fees from huge corporations, not harassing peons like us. So H.264 is really not the end of the world like some people are making it out to be.

It could be worse, we could be dependent on a wholly proprietary browser plugin to view some websites. Oh wait. :)

All I am saying, if I could somehow get rid of Flash and replace it with H.264, I think the state of Free Software would be better off overall. Plus people would stop complaining about Flash issues, and we'd actually have full screen 1080p video without dropped frames.

[iponeverything]

Another he said , she said, unsubstantiated piece of amateur web reporting.:rolleyes:

What would the world be without it.. Sensational imaginary threats to the world as we know it.

[schauerlich]

closed BSD kernel that Apple uses

lolwut (http://opensource.apple.com/source/xnu/xnu-1504.3.12/)

See my signature for more info.

[wilee-nilee]

lolwut (http://opensource.apple.com/source/xnu/xnu-1504.3.12/)

See my signature for more info.

I always love your responses, parsing out what works for you, never actually responding in anything but a pag way. lol back at you.;)

[Chrysantine]

I always love your responses, parsing out what works for you, never actually responding in anything but a pag way. lol back at you.;)
He was right though. Much of what is said on these forums is total bull or at least twisted in whatever way so it looks like X target is evil cancer and corruption (insert whatever large corporation you like).

It's easier to hate than to admit "they're doing this thing better than we are".

Saying "patent free" products like Theora are complete crap seems to be harder than it needs to be.

[KiwiNZ]

I am going to close this before the name calling worsens and the err n/m

[sdowney717]

http://newteevee.com/2010/04/30/apple-may-be-gunning-for-open-source-codecs/

Everyone wants to sue everyone else over patent infringement.
Innovative technology then never gets out of the lab.


Well Jobs wrote back, warning that open source codecs like Ogg Theora may soon be taken to court for infringing on others’ patents:

“All video codecs are covered by patents. A patent pool is being assembled to go after Theora and other “open source” codecs now. Unfortunately, just because something is open source, it doesn’t mean or guarantee that it doesn’t infringe on others patents. An open standard is different from being royalty free or open source.”




Google was hoping to stem that divide by making VP8 open source and thus providing a high-quality and open alternative to existing codecs. Google’s plans to open-source the codec have been widely expected ever since it announced plans to acquire On2 in August 2009, and speculation intensified after the deal closed.

But without Apple and Microsoft on board, Google may have a tough time getting VP8 adopted by media publishers. And now that Apple’s CEO has confirmed plans for patent infringement suits against Ogg Theora and other open source codecs, Google may have even more issues to deal with.

[Chrysantine]

"reportedly claimed by email"

Seriously. Let's wait for some facts before we throw the first rock.