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Irihapeti
May 1st, 2010, 11:59 PM
I see people who have problems, and I can understand a degree of frustration. I've been there myself.

I'm happy to help people, but my time and energy, like everyone's, is limited.

So, when I see messages that includes things like "as soon as I get xyz sorted, I'm leaving" or "I don't know whether I should keep on using this &^%()& or go back to windows", I feel less motivated.

If I'm going to help someone, in any of life's activities, I want to know if there's some level of commitment to begin with. Uncertainty on the part of the poster about staying doesn't give me that impression. Disparaging remarks about Ubuntu, Canonical, the devs and the world of Linux don't motivate me, either.

I prefer to work with people who have decided to give it a good shot, and who can keep generalised negativity out of their posts. Tone makes a big difference to me.

Maybe it's just me, I'm not sure. Perhaps I'm simply tired and confused and naive.

Am I the only one?

CharlesA
May 2nd, 2010, 12:04 AM
I know how you feel.

Even if my knowledge of Linux is not all that great, I do try to help out. It gets annoying when you are trying to help someone and they aren't even trying to help you help them.

swoll1980
May 2nd, 2010, 12:08 AM
Things like "I'm going to go back to Windows" are manipulation attempts made by people of questionable maturity. This kind of thing always worked on mommy, and daddy, so naturally they will attempt to use this method on others as well. The only way to break them of this habit is to not give them what they want.

CharlesA
May 2nd, 2010, 12:12 AM
Does a swift kick in the butt work too?

*runs*

Irihapeti
May 2nd, 2010, 12:14 AM
You have a point, Swoll. It's said that a common attribute of a mother is a well-developed sense of guilt. :)

sdowney717
May 2nd, 2010, 12:15 AM
made by people of questionable maturity

there are a lot of young people (kids, teens) on this forum.
It would be interesting to know the age demographic frequency statistic of those who post sorted by age in raw numbers

Irihapeti
May 2nd, 2010, 12:21 AM
Let's not get too bogged down in age statistics. Age does not equal maturity, unfortunately. There are plenty of cranky older people whom I've met in real life, and I'm sure some of them would find their way here as well.

Nor is politeness confined to the older age group. I had the pleasure of helping someone with a fairly major problem who was so appreciative that I got a thank-you PM. And, no, they weren't in my age group (I have adult sons).

tgalati4
May 2nd, 2010, 12:31 AM
New releases bring new problems. I like to hang back and let the dust settle a little. It can be overwhelming. I'm thinking that future releases should be quiet rollouts. There's no reason that the servers should be slammed. Once you have a working distro, stick with it for a while. Those that upgrade without testing with the Live CD first can expect problems.

Experienced users keep a working linux partition and put the upgrade on a new partition. When things don't work, you can always boot into your existing (and presumably working) distro.

As far as criticism, "Ubuntu was my idea." Except for the button placement. Who's lame idea was that?

Rasa1111
May 2nd, 2010, 12:36 AM
good thread, well said. :)

I am not able to help too much around here yet,
so Ive not much to say in that regard...

But i do know, and feel exactly what you are talking about Irihapeti.

swoll.. i agree,
definitely.

it's like.. " uhpp, if you cant fix this for me, then i will punish YOU, and not use it!!" :lol:
punishing only themselves,
while pretending they are punishing you by not using/doing something that will only benefit them.

funny humans we are. lol

thanks for the thread,
i think it was needed. :)

and thanks again for all your help! <3
and everyone else who helps soo much..
you all rock. many thanks!

lisati
May 2nd, 2010, 12:36 AM
Let's not get too bogged down in age statistics.
True. There are many users of younger age and smaller post count than myself who are better able to answer many of the questions.

As far as criticism, "Ubuntu was my idea." Except for the button placement. Who's lame idea was that?
Recurring discussions?

Lensman
May 2nd, 2010, 12:38 AM
Let's not get too bogged down in age statistics. Age does not equal maturity, unfortunately. There are plenty of cranky older people whom I've met in real life, and I'm sure some of them would find their way here as well.

Nor is politeness confined to the older age group. I had the pleasure of helping someone with a fairly major problem who was so appreciative that I got a thank-you PM. And, no, they weren't in my age group (I have adult sons).

It is true that age is no panacea for wisdom, but it helps.

Where the "I am going back to Windows" mentality is concerned, my thoughts run along the lines of 'Don't let the door hit you in the ****'. ;)

CharlesA
May 2nd, 2010, 12:41 AM
New releases bring new problems. I like to hang back and let the dust settle a little. It can be overwhelming. I'm thinking that future releases should be quiet rollouts. There's no reason that the servers should be slammed. Once you have a working distro, stick with it for a while. Those that upgrade without testing with the Live CD first can expect problems.

+1 I've tested with the livecd before doing installs, and it has saved me many headaches.

sdowney717
May 2nd, 2010, 12:41 AM
knowledge does not equal wisdom.
sometimes this forum is just drooling with so much idiocy.
Age tends to bring a lot more experience on how people should interrelate and getting along with others is a learning experience not well established in youth.

chillicampari
May 2nd, 2010, 12:48 AM
New releases bring new problems. I like to hang back and let the dust settle a little. It can be overwhelming. I'm thinking that future releases should be quiet rollouts. There's no reason that the servers should be slammed. Once you have a working distro, stick with it for a while. Those that upgrade without testing with the Live CD first can expect problems.

Experienced users keep a working linux partition and put the upgrade on a new partition. When things don't work, you can always boot into your existing (and presumably working) distro.

As far as criticism, "Ubuntu was my idea." Except for the button placement. Who's lame idea was that?

That's good advice, and the more patient types probably do that anyway (by that I mean those who don't get the "upgrade high" and "first one on the block" thing (not that there's really anything wrong with that, but this distro in particular seems to attract it).

I don't think a quiet release would ever happen, it's a really short window for combined word of mouth buzz and media attention each cycle.

Rasa1111
May 2nd, 2010, 12:49 AM
knowledge does not equal wisdom.
sometimes this forum is just drooling with so much idiocy.
Age tends to bring a lot more experience on how people should interrelate and getting along with others is a learning experience not well established in youth.


tell that to the leaders of the world...
not much of the "youth" in that group.

where is their experience on learning how to interrelate and get along with others?
doesn't exist. lol

age group has nothing to do with it, really.
that is another illusion brought to you by the TV.

damn.. sorry..
off topic...

but really though. lol :KS

2hot6ft2
May 2nd, 2010, 01:01 AM
You're not alone. I have been tempted to just shut it down and watch some movies for a few weeks. I have plenty I can watch.

I'll add one to your list and that is the user that chooses to appear offline. You find a post that is only a couple minutes old and start to reply only to notice that they have either gone offline or chose to appear that way.
There's no telling how many times I've been headed for the reply button only to spot that and hit the close tab button instead.

Rude, whinny, confrontational, OS bashing, unwilling to do what's required to fix it type of threads count me out.

I help out because there are those that don't act that way and they are willing to get in there and fix things with some guidance.

I don't have to do it, I choose to do it. It's their right to post what they want and it's my right to decide if I want to help or not.
It will be another week or so before I upgrade/re-install so my help is limited at this point where all those that rushed to upgrade are concerned anyway.
I had no issues with the betas I ran in my test partition.

The search function works people! Try using it sometime.

Ah, I feel better now.
:lolflag:

chillicampari
May 2nd, 2010, 01:25 AM
...
I'll add one to your list and that is the user that chooses to appear offline.
...

I know, right? It's just terrible! ;)

oldsoundguy
May 2nd, 2010, 01:28 AM
Helping can burn you out .. the hardest being a care giver to a terminally ill parent ...

But most of you have done a great job.

Remember, the majority of issues come from newbies that think that Linux is just Windows of a different color and just can not get their heads around the fact that they DO NOT WORK THE SAME WAY.

Have noticed less and less issues with desktop installs as the ability to pick and choose hardware is the big PLUS there.

Then there are the laptops .. most issues are with dual booting and with older units or el cheapo bought at a flea market units.
I personally do not recommend installing on a laptop unless you run a live set up FIRST.

And then remember .. nobody bitches when it goes right!!

I just did 5 computers with updates .. Mythbuntu has hardware issues on the PVR I have .. but did it as an update .. will give the disk a shot.(it still BOOTS!! LOL)
EVERYTHING else went as smooth as glass with the exception of Skype .. it went bye bye .. third party proprietary software! And the fact that Ubuntu Tweak had to be manually updated. (expected that!!)

So keep up the good work and just remember not everyone is a doofus that does not know how to search or can't take the time to figure it out for themselves.

matthew
May 2nd, 2010, 01:29 AM
It may help you to know that staff deal with similar feelings of burnout. We each take little vacations from the forums from time to time. We have discovered that doing so gives us a rest and we come back with renewed patience and ability to look past the annoyances.

2hot6ft2
May 2nd, 2010, 01:34 AM
It may help you to know that staff deal with similar feelings of burnout. We each take little vacations from the forums from time to time. We have discovered that doing so gives us a rest and we come back with renewed patience and ability to look past the annoyances.
God I would hope so. Otherwise everyone would be banned.
:lolflag:
You all do a great job and deserve a break.

ibuclaw
May 2nd, 2010, 01:36 AM
Furthermore to matthew's reply, what I find is that I help a hand in more than just the Forums, but in IRC and Launchpad too.

When one area gets tiring, simply focus more on another, then shift back in due time. It keeps things on a reasonable level of interest.

If you haven't done so already, try logging into #ubuntu or #ubuntu-beginners on IRC and give help in realtime. It is a very different experience and a sometimes enjoyable learning curve - given that when someone has an issue, they generally expect it to be answered and resolved within 5-8 minutes, as opposed to a few days later as we get on the forums. :)

Irihapeti
May 2nd, 2010, 01:43 AM
It may help you to know that staff deal with similar feelings of burnout. We each take little vacations from the forums from time to time. We have discovered that doing so gives us a rest and we come back with renewed patience and ability to look past the annoyances.

You guys know that I have enormous respect for the pretty thankless job you do. I know that I won't be posting messages asking how to become a mod. :)

Maybe I just need to sit outside in the sunshine for a while and read a book.

P.S. "Guys" includes the women. It's just a turn of speech that I sometimes use.

2hot6ft2
May 2nd, 2010, 01:45 AM
Furthermore to matthew's reply, what I find is that I help a hand in more than just the Forums, but in IRC and Launchpad too.

When one area gets tiring, simply focus more on another, then shift back in due time. It keeps things on a reasonable level of interest.

If you haven't done so already, try logging into #ubuntu or #ubuntu-beginners on IRC and give help in realtime. It is a very different experience and a sometimes enjoyable learning curve - given that when someone has an issue, they generally expect it to be answered and resolved within 5-8 minutes, as opposed to a few days later as we get on the forums. :)
I do some on launchpad and other forums. Never tried IRC, I always thought of it as being something like the old BB's of the 1980's which never held my interest.

Might have to give it a shot. Thanks for the ideas.


P.S. "Guys" includes the women. It's just a turn of speech that I sometimes use.
Don't you hate having to try and be politically correct.

matthew
May 2nd, 2010, 01:46 AM
Sometimes we also get a little goofy in the staff forum. Occasionally that spills out into the main forums, like the year we played our massive April Fool's Day color prank or when we all switch clothes avatars or something.

It's part of why we didn't delete the games forum when server limitations forced us to deal with and remove some other things we once had.

jetsam
May 2nd, 2010, 02:00 AM
Clearly that could only come from someone who's already cut off his nose to spite his face...

<flees>

2hot6ft2
May 2nd, 2010, 02:11 AM
If you haven't done so already, try logging into #ubuntu or #ubuntu-beginners on IRC and give help in realtime. It is a very different experience and a sometimes enjoyable learning curve - given that when someone has an issue, they generally expect it to be answered and resolved within 5-8 minutes, as opposed to a few days later as we get on the forums. :)
Interesting. I'm there now. Not sure I can type fast enough to keep up though.
:lolflag:
And matthew I still know what's in your hand in that avatar.

EDIT: Wow. I just discovered I have win 7 on a pc I thought only had UUE and BT4 on.
Tells you how much I use win 7 doesn't it...
I found out when I went to setup a new partition for UUE 2.6 (10.04)

matthew
May 2nd, 2010, 02:18 AM
And matthew I still know what's in your hand in that avatar.
The Tattooine equivalent of Fat Tire?

2hot6ft2
May 2nd, 2010, 02:21 AM
The Tattooine equivalent of Fat Tire?
Never heard it called that. But smoke them tires 'till the rubber flies.
:lolflag:

uRock
May 2nd, 2010, 02:46 AM
I feel the same about being deterred by people's attitudes. When you hear the I am leaving if I can't get this fixed line it just makes me wanna say don't let the door hit ya, but I just try to stay positive and help whenever possible.

I will be taking Mathew's advice and taking a break in a for a while to get some sun and fun.