Linux=Hacking Program?

[moore.bryan]

Long story short, I've gotten into a lot of trouble at work by installing Ubuntu on my work-issued laptop because the head of IT believes Linux is "designed by hackers with the sole purpose of hacking into systems." Basically, I *need* some serious "proof," "evidence," "data," whatever you want to call it to refute his accusations. I'm, basically, fighting for my job.

Looking forward to the help!

[dgw]

Can you go over his head and talk to his boss? Give him a live CD as well.

[moore.bryan]

He is the boss. :-(

[andras artois]

I totally use linux to hack into everything I can. Bank accounts, government computers, military computers, send a few nukes where ever, everything man. There's no way this definitely is for h4XX0r-ing computers and doing illegal damage do other peoples computers.







[/sarcasmjustincase]

[tica vun]

Quit your job and dedicate your life to exposing the sheer idiocy of every element of society that allowed that man to become head of IT.

[Chronon]

Long story short, I've gotten into a lot of trouble at work by installing Ubuntu on my work-issued laptop because the head of IT believes Linux is "designed by hackers with the sole purpose of hacking into systems." Basically, I *need* some serious "proof," "evidence," "data," whatever you want to call it to refute his accusations. I'm, basically, fighting for my job.

Looking forward to the help!

Point out that it is used by many large-scale companies to provide web services. Point out that it's what you do with any tool/system that matters. Is he accusing you of anything specific?

[dgw]

If you do get fired, give him a Linux For Dummies book.

[Nimless]

Tell him Canonical is behind it, and point it to the website.
Also tell him even Google use a modified version of Ubuntu for his internal employers, and ask him if Google is a "hacking group"... :P
http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goobuntu

[moore.bryan]

[/sarcasmjustincase]
Thankfully, I can still pick-up on that!
:-)


Quit your job and dedicate your life to exposing the sheer idiocy of every element of society that allowed that man to become head of IT.
As soon as I hit the PowerBall... one of these days, it has to happen, right?


Point out that it is used by many large-scale companies to provide web services. Point out that it's what you do with any tool/system that matters. Is he accusing you of anything specific?
Nothing specific, but there doesn't need to be. Simply installing something with the *ability* to hack is apparently hacking in his mind.


If you do get fired, give him a Linux For Dummies book.
Let's hope that doesn't happen!

[wilee-nilee]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supercomputer

Also about 60% of the worlds severs run a open source OS.
Show them that Google runs Linux, unfortunately it is hard to break a concrete assumption. It is cracker not hacker that he is referring to, he should know better.

[Irihapeti]

Send him here (http://ubuntu.com/), here (http://www2.mandriva.com/), here (http://fedoraproject.org/), or here (http://www.redhat.com/).

If he thinks that it's just a cover for what Linux "really" is all about, then you're dealing with a conspiracy theorist and there's not much you can do.

[hansdown]

Try pointing your boss toward a learning moment.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu_%28operating_system%29

If he is unwilling to learn, then you may be blessed with the knowledge, that you are deserving of a better place of employment. (crosses fingers for you).

[dgw]

Let's hope that doesn't happen!
I'm sorry about making light of this. I wish you luck in dealing with your boss.

[NinjaNumberNine]

Tell him that Linux runs on this thing: (cray jaquar xt5, worlds fastest supercomputer)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8e/JaguarXT5.jpg/800px-JaguarXT5.jpg (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8e/JaguarXT5.jpg/800px-JaguarXT5.jpg)
:lolflag::lolflag::lolflag::lolflag::lolflag:

[Brandel Valico]

http://www.focus.com/fyi/information-technology/50-places-linux-running-you-might-not-expect/print/

With the list of governments and businesses using linux its kind of hard to claim that its a program solely for evil take-overs of others computers

[Mr. Picklesworth]

Well, Ubuntu is built by some talented hackers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hacker_(programmer_subculture)). The people at work are just using the wrong definition of the word :)

Okay, I'm being a tad facetious there, but I think some of this person's misunderstanding may spring from the frequent use of the word "hacker" and the unfortunate belief (created by clueless media people) that "hacker" = means "law breaker who wants to steal your money".

[moore.bryan]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supercomputer

Also about 60% of the worlds severs run a open source OS.
Show them that Google runs Linux, unfortunately it is hard to break a concrete assumption. It is cracker not hacker that he is referring to, he should know better.
Unfortunately, I'm fairly certain he won't take Wikipedia as a "reliable" source...

Send him here (http://ubuntu.com/), here (http://www2.mandriva.com/), here (http://fedoraproject.org/), or here (http://www.redhat.com/).

If he thinks that it's just a cover for what Linux "really" is all about, then you're dealing with a conspiracy theorist and there's not much you can do.
My guess will be he's a conspiracy theorist...


Try pointing your boss toward a learning moment.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu_%28operating_system%29

If he is unwilling to learn, then you may be blessed with the knowledge, that you are deserving of a better place of employment. (crosses fingers for you).
Same as above, with regards to Wikipedia. Thanks for the fingers!


I'm sorry about making light of this. I wish you luck in dealing with your boss.
No worries... if it wasn't me, it'd be pretty funny. ;-)

[moore.bryan]

http://www.focus.com/fyi/information-technology/50-places-linux-running-you-might-not-expect/print/

Brilliant article; thanks...

[moore.bryan]

Well, Ubuntu is built by some talented hackers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hacker_(programmer_subculture)). They're just using the wrong definition of the word :)

Okay, I'm being a tad facetious there, but I think some of this person's misunderstanding may spring from the frequent use of the word "hacker" and the unfortunate belief (created by clueless media people) that "hacker" = means "law breaker who wants to steal your money".

I know he's getting the term wrong, but it's the word he's choosing to use.

[Mr. Picklesworth]

I know he's getting the term wrong, but it's the word he's choosing to use.

Heh, I forgot to finish my thought. I think he may be growing that thought from reading the words "hacker" and "hacking" in the context of free software, but using his own definitions. So, perhaps he just needs some clarification of what it means in terms of Ubuntu :/

[moore.bryan]

If only that would solve my problem! Let's just say a series of unfortunate events, taken out of context, would seem to support his accusations. The only problem: I'm not smart enough to hack.
:-/

[Frak]

Quit and get a job where your boss isn't a total moron disconnected from the real world.

[moore.bryan]

A shade harder in my profession than that: I'm a teacher.

[cariboo]

Personally, I agree with your Boss, not about what Linux is or isn't, but that you installed something on one of his computers without at least asking permission first.

[Irihapeti]

What exactly is his concern? I'm wondering if "Linux is for hackers" is really a "socially acceptable" cover for something else.

If you could find that out, then you would be a lot further ahead.

[moore.bryan]

Personally, I agree with your Boss, not about what Linux is or isn't, but that you installed something on one of his computers without at least asking permission first.
You make an excellent point and I'm willing to accept the consequences of installing something without permission, but that's not even his concern; rather, it's *what* I installed.

[moore.bryan]

What exactly is his concern? I'm wondering if "Linux is for hackers" is really a "socially acceptable" cover for something else.

If you could find that out, then you would be a lot further ahead.

Very true...

[DeusExM1]

keep us updated on what happens. :popcorn:

[phrostbyte]

The real solution: Quit your job and find a new one. If you have any respect for yourself and your career you should stay FAR FAR FAR away from this "Head of IT" and the company which hired him.

Tbh, it sounds so absurd I don't really believe this story. I've met some idiot IT people but this takes the cake by an order of magnitude.

[phrostbyte]

Actually, don't quit. Let him fire you and you'll easily collect unemployment.

EDIT: If you are a teacher it's very unlikely an "Head of IT" has any ability to fire you. Nor is he your boss. This story makes no sense.

[Ultra_Man]

Give him the middle finger and tell him: "LINUX IS FOR HUMAN BEINGS *bleep*" :P

But seriously, tell him that you can't hack windows. Maybe he'll buy it.

[wllkmbll]

A shade harder in my profession than that: I'm a teacher.

Have you thought about showing him Edubuntu? Not only is that not cracking (or hacking) but it's relevant to being a teacher. I'm a high school student, and I know I've learned a lot from Ubuntu. If you can show him Ubuntu's potential for learning, it could reverse his negative opinion. :)

[steveneddy]

Here's my opinion - for what it's worth -

You installed an operating system on a work PC without permission.

That was wrong.

You need to tell the guy riding your back that you will uninstall the OS and never do it again on a company PC.

Then send him to the Red Hat (http://www.redhat.com/), Suse (http://www.novell.com/linux/) and IBM (http://www-03.ibm.com/linux/) page and tell him that Linux is a reliable but alternate operating system. Suggest that since he is the main IT guy that he needs to be versed in other OS's like Linux because there may be a need for it in the office one day.

[Irihapeti]

Here's my opinion - for what it's worth -

You installed an operating system on a work PC without permission.

That was wrong.

You need to tell the guy riding your back that you will uninstall the OS and never do it again on a company PC.

Then send him to the Red Hat (http://www.redhat.com/), Suse (http://www.novell.com/linux/) and IBM (http://www-03.ibm.com/linux/) page and tell him that Linux is a reliable but alternate operating system. Suggest that since he is the main IT guy that he needs to be versed in other OS's like Linux because there may be a need for it in the office one day.

I have to say that that's rather what I suspect may have happened. That requires a slightly different approach from persuading him on the technical level, at least to begin with.

[hansdown]

Have you thought about showing him Edubuntu? Not only is that not cracking (or hacking) but it's relevant to being a teacher. I'm a high school student, and I know I've learned a lot from Ubuntu. If you can show him Ubuntu's potential for learning, it could reverse his negative opinion. :)

Good call wllkmbll.

[cbecker78]

It may be worthwhile pointing out MacOSX <-> Linux similarities there. Also mention droid- which is becoming a widely accepted/used phone OS. Depending on what you have already told him, you could go grab a droid, and explain that you actually installed this to have greater compatibility with your phone, which you hoped would lead to enhanced productivity when out of the office. Then explain how you realize now you should not have done this w/o seeking permission first, that you have already removed the new OS and will not do such a thing again.

[cariboo]

It may help if you point him to some of the companies backing Linux. RedHat, IBM, Novell, even Microsoft has contributed to the kernel. I don't think any of the mentioned companies would back a hacker-OS.

Mentioning IBM and Novell should make a difference if the IT guy has been around for any length of time.

[witeshark17]

If that computer keeps Ubuntu long enough, it will prove itself. There is more than enough internet information to prove that Linux is a proper OS.

[The Thunder Chimp]

It may help if you point him to some of the companies backing Linux. RedHat, IBM, Novell, even Microsoft has contributed to the kernel. I don't think any of the mentioned companies would back a hacker-OS.

Mentioning IBM and Novell should make a difference it the IT guy has been around for any length of time.

I agree with you cariboo907. IBM backs up linux so much, I heard they gave 250 million a year to the "cause". Though IBM would be willing to do anything that annoys Microsoft, after being ripped-off by them in the big OS/2 racket of 1990.

By the way, interesting statistic: Out of the 500 most powerful supercomputers on the planet, 446 run Linux. That's 89,2%. Additionally, the 14 most powerful supercomputers run Linux. If the most powerful computers run Linux, there must be a reason, as it's useless to have a powerful computer if a heavy Operating System drags it's power. Therefore, why can't I use it's power? :popcorn::)

[The Thunder Chimp]

even Microsoft has contributed to the kernel.

I do believe Microsoft has contributed to the Kernel to avoid a law suit after copying a part of the Linux Kernel and claiming it as there own creation. And this contribution is going to be completely removed in a near-future Kernel update.

[TBABill]

Tell him the government in Turkey has switched from Microsoft to Pardus, another Linux distro. Here's their site discussing their distro: http://www.pardus.org.tr/eng/news/pardus-in-cebit-eurasia/

You have plenty to defend Open Source and Linux with. Businesses trust and rely on various distros to manage their data, handle their infrastructure and conduct their business.

[Frak]

I do believe Microsoft has contributed to the Kernel to avoid a law suit after copying a part of the Linux Kernel and claiming it as there own creation. And this contribution is going to be completely removed in a near-future Kernel update.
Microsoft has contributed to the Linux kernel. Was it because of a lawsuit? No. Will they remove the fixes? No.

[kmsalex]

i think all IT people working for schools are just randomly picked morons, i'm a student and once i struck up a bit of a conversation with one. we got to a point where i asked "do you use firefox or chrome" and i got the reply "firefox chrome? are though's programs?" the

[Foster Grant]

Nothing specific, but there doesn't need to be. Simply installing something with the *ability* to hack is apparently hacking in his mind.

Tell him to uninstall Windows.

[steveneddy]

........ are though's programs?" the

grammar police

those

[Frak]

i think all IT people working for schools are just randomly picked morons, i'm a student and once i struck up a bit of a conversation with one. we got to a point where i asked "do you use firefox or chrome" and i got the reply "firefox chrome? are though's programs?" the
I'm inclined to agree. Every time I've ever worked in or been around a school's IT staff, I have felt as if I held some forbidden knowledge.

[renkinjutsu]

For your boss:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzqnA793unc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwEWxpOWOok
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmxPfZtV6w0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySyPIoyXJ-k



For you:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjSDAUykkzQ

[The Thunder Chimp]

Microsoft has contributed to the Linux kernel. Was it because of a lawsuit? No. Will they remove the fixes? No.

Wikipedia says: "Microsoft was forced to make the code contribution when Vyatta (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vyatta) principal engineer and Linux contributor Stephen Hemminger discovered that Microsoft had incorporated a Hyper-V network driver, with GPL-licensed open source components, statically linked to closed-source binaries in contravention of the GPL license
[...]
The prospect of the drivers being dropped did briefly result in Microsoft developers conducting more work to maintain the code, but their effort did not endure and their code is slated for removal as of kernel version 2.6.35."

[Frak]

Wikipedia says: "Microsoft was forced to make the code contribution when Vyatta (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vyatta) principal engineer and Linux contributor Stephen Hemminger discovered that Microsoft had incorporated a Hyper-V network driver, with GPL-licensed open source components, statically linked to closed-source binaries in contravention of the GPL license
[...]
The prospect of the drivers being dropped did briefly result in Microsoft developers conducting more work to maintain the code, but their effort did not endure and their code is slated for removal as of kernel version 2.6.35."
Neat, but they have committed more than that.

[undecim]

Hold on, let me open a terminal and hack into their mainframe and have you promoted to above the IT people's level. I'm using Linux, so that's easy?

Do they know that Google, wikipedia, and the apache foundation all run their web servers on Linux? You can find a lot more websites like that, and probably web pages that explain what OS they are using.

Or that Mac and Linux are almost the same thing?

Show them that it's just a desktop environment. Explain to them why you use it instead of Windows

Let him play around on your desktop (after you've removed anything important) and he'll see that there's nothing wrong with it. Maybe you'll even convert him!

Point them to Ubuntu.com which clearly explains the purpose of Ubuntu. There's also Red Hat, Novell (opensuse)

Also explain that "hacking" doesn't always mean "criminal activity". It can often be more similar to "computer programming", for example, if someone says they are "hacking around in the kernel", they are just messing around with the code on their system.

And yes, most black hat hackers do tend to prefer Linux over Windows, because it is a more powerful tool. Analogously, street racers might prefer one model of car over another, but does that mean that everyone who drives the faster model of car is a street racer?

And if all else fails, agree to hire a neutral third party that would know about this stuff (a security expert for example). Anyone who knows anything about Linux's relation to security and black hat hacking will tell you that Ubuntu isn't the distro you use for hacking. Backtrack would be better for that, and that Linux is used on desktop, servers, routers, cell phones, etc.

[undecim]

Better yet, turn the tables on him. Have HIM find evidence that Ubuntu is a hacking tool (say "ubuntu" or whatever distro you have instead of "linux" otherwise he'll find Backtrack, which is a distro for pentesting, i.e. "hacking")

He can't fire you without a reason. If he lists the reason as "possesion of hacking tools" or somesuch, you can sue him, he'll say "He had Ubuntu, and that's illegal" and anyone who knows what that is will laugh him out of the court room. If no one knows, they'll bring in someone to search your computer. Just make sure you don't have any tools that are used for pentesting

[hunterkasy]

Long story short, I've gotten into a lot of trouble at work by installing Ubuntu on my work-issued laptop because the head of IT believes Linux is "designed by hackers with the sole purpose of hacking into systems." Basically, I *need* some serious "proof," "evidence," "data," whatever you want to call it to refute his accusations. I'm, basically, fighting for my job.

Looking forward to the help!


If I was your boss, I would have more problems with you installing un-authorized software on a company's computer

[Chrysantine]

Simple;

Ask him if he uses Google? Yes? He's hacking systems (Redhat)
Does he use Youtube? Indeed? Hacker he is (SuSE)

[MaxIBoy]

http://www.top500.org/stats/list/34/osfam
List of operating systems used in the top 500 supercomputer sites as of November 2009. Linux is used in 89.2% of them. "other UNIX" is in second place at 5%. Windows is surprisingly high at 1% (management strikes again!)


http://www.linuxfordevices.com/
So he can see how many of his own gadgets run Linux.


http://news.netcraft.com/
Server market share classified by HTTP webserver software. Besides "Sun" and "Microsoft," pretty much all other hosting software can be totaled up to accurately represent market share for Linux (minus a few percent for other UNIXen.) This is roughly 75% market share as of April 2010.


http://www.linuxmovies.org/
Linux is dominant in the film-making industry.



Most of the DNS servers run Linux, as do most switching stations and many common routers, so if he's ever used the Internet in any way, he's a Linux user. He's also benefited directly from advances in medicine which were made possible directly through Linux supercomputers. He's watched movies which were edited and rendered on Linux computers. He's used embedded devices (including his DVD player, GPS, most recently-made routers) which run on Linux. Maybe he should turn himself in to the proper authorities right away.







That being said, you should refer to company policy (as in, what is on your contract, not what he tells you himself,) regarding the installation of new software on work-issued equipment. I it's allowed, then you've got a pretty solid case; otherwise, you should not have done it.

[Paqman]

The dude is head of IT, and he's never heard of RHEL? That's quite an alarming level of incompetence.


If I was your boss, I would have more problems with you installing un-authorized software on a company's computer

+1

You've got to expect them to bodyslam you for installing an alternative OS on their hardware without authorisation. The hacking call is rubbish, but I can see why he might think you're up to something shifty if you're installing stuff under their radar.

Make sure they drop the hacking nonsense, but expect to get disciplined for installing unauthorised software. If doing so was against a published IT policy then they might be entitled to sack you, but personally i'd think it was a bit extreme. Check through the company's policy closely so you know where you stand.

[Khakilang]

If he fire you take him to court. But of course get all the facts to back you up. If you win you can get him fire and you got nothing to loose.

[gnupipe]

I use Ubuntu for penetration testing. It's my hobby. ;)

[YeOK]

Just point him to the USA's NSA website,

http://www.nsa.gov/research/selinux/index.shtml

Then ask him why the USA government would invest time and money in securing a hacking tool.

[Warpnow]

Point out to him that most servers in the world run linux..

Then show him the companies that include linux by default on computers, ie, Dell (Ubuntu), HP(Ubuntu), Acer (Fedora), Asus (Xandros), Google (Android & Chrome), or a dozen more.

[moore.bryan]

Actually, don't quit. Let him fire you and you'll easily collect unemployment.

EDIT: If you are a teacher it's very unlikely an "Head of IT" has any ability to fire you. Nor is he your boss. This story makes no sense.

The head of IT has the ability to go to the superintendent, he did, and convince him that my purpose for installing Linux was to hack. Then, the system is set-up that I have to prove I did not install with the purpose of hacking. In essence, I have to prove I didn't do something.

It's a lot easier to fire a teacher than most people think.

[sdowney717]

The head of IT has the ability to go to the superintendent, he did, and convince him that my purpose for installing Linux was to hack. Then, the system is set-up that I have to prove I did not the purpose of hacking. In essence, I have to prove I didn't do something.

seeing he did this makes me wonder if there are other problems than Linux between the two of you.

[DrMelon]

Ask him why pretty much 80% of web hosters use Linux to host websites. I.E, people who DON'T want to be hacked use it.

[moore.bryan]

Here's my opinion - for what it's worth -

You installed an operating system on a work PC without permission.

That was wrong.

You need to tell the guy riding your back that you will uninstall the OS and never do it again on a company PC.

Then send him to the Red Hat (http://www.redhat.com/), Suse (http://www.novell.com/linux/) and IBM (http://www-03.ibm.com/linux/) page and tell him that Linux is a reliable but alternate operating system. Suggest that since he is the main IT guy that he needs to be versed in other OS's like Linux because there may be a need for it in the office one day.
They've already wiped the hard-drive. When I re-acquired the laptop, the building-level head of IT nonchalantly asked me not to install any other OS's. Since then I haven't, but it's also escalated.


Tell him to uninstall Windows.
I don't think he would appreciate the humor.


Better yet, turn the tables on him. Have HIM find evidence that Ubuntu is a hacking tool (say "ubuntu" or whatever distro you have instead of "linux" otherwise he'll find Backtrack, which is a distro for pentesting, i.e. "hacking")

He can't fire you without a reason. If he lists the reason as "possesion of hacking tools" or somesuch, you can sue him, he'll say "He had Ubuntu, and that's illegal" and anyone who knows what that is will laugh him out of the court room. If no one knows, they'll bring in someone to search your computer. Just make sure you don't have any tools that are used for pentesting
Like I wrote somewhere else, the "system" I'm in doesn't require the district to prove anything, it's up to me to prove it isn't for hacking.


That being said, you should refer to company policy (as in, what is on your contract, not what he tells you himself,) regarding the installation of new software on work-issued equipment. I it's allowed, then you've got a pretty solid case; otherwise, you should not have done it.
I now fully realize why I shouldn't have done it, but I can't--yet--go back in-time to fix that one.


You've got to expect them to bodyslam you for installing an alternative OS on their hardware without authorisation. The hacking call is rubbish, but I can see why he might think you're up to something shifty if you're installing stuff under their radar.

Make sure they drop the hacking nonsense, but expect to get disciplined for installing unauthorised software. If doing so was against a published IT policy then they might be entitled to sack you, but personally i'd think it was a bit extreme. Check through the company's policy closely so you know where you stand.
I do expect that... never thought it was such a big deal and didn't know my IT guy thought Linux was a hacking tool.

[sdowney717]

Write a couple of formal letters to your IT boss and the superintendent and tell them the good reasons you put Linux on the laptop.
Educate the superintendent about how many legitimate companies use Linux on servers and how they use it.

Arrange for a demonstration of the OS.
Explain that legitimate software repositories are used for installing software. Actually windows .exe files are much more likely to be security threats.

Apologize for installing something not approved formally by the IT department but list all the benefits, security,monetary, etc... and maybe you can convince them to use Linux. You have to involve the relevant parties on the inside of this issue.

Explain that you were testing out Ubuntu too see if a FREE software system could work for them.

Your IT boss sounds like a bully who feels threatened by Linux since he seems to be totally ignorant and unlearned about anything other than Windows.

[Penguin Guy]

Linux is often described as an OS 'for hackers', in the sense that it's an OS that can be modified by the user - not in the sense that it's used to hack into computers. Maybe that's what confused him. Anyway, why don't you give him a link to this thread?

[moore.bryan]

seeing he did this makes me wonder if there are other problems than Linux between the two of you.

Not that I know of... I've only met the guy, maybe, five times...

[Irihapeti]

Time to talk to a lawyer?

[chappajar]

Show him these lists of companies and organisations that use Linux:

http://www.aaxnet.com/design/linux2.html

http://www.focus.com/fyi/information-technology/50-places-linux-running-you-might-not-expect/

Some of the more well-known ''highlights'': Cisco, Google, US Army, US Navy, US DoD, Panasonic, Toyota, US Post, Novell, Virgin, Shell, Peugeot, NYSE, FAA, IBM, Amazon.

[chappajar]

Sorry, double post. Please delete.

[moore.bryan]

Time to talk to a lawyer?

Yeah, that was step one. Right now, we're going through a process in education law known as "fact finding." Basically, it's where they accuse me of everything that could conceivably be accused, no matter how ridiculous, and use circumstantial evidence as proof. After that, there is usually a Loudermill hearing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleveland_Board_of_Education_v._Loudermill) where they decide what the punishment is; that's really when the lawyer comes into play.

[Swagman]

Tell him you "know his little secret" whilst stroking your Ubuntu controlled laptop

nudge, nudge - wink wink

[moore.bryan]

Tell him you "know his little secret" whilst stroking your Ubuntu controlled laptop

nudge, nudge - wink wink

:lolflag:

[Doctor Mike]

Just point him to the USA's NSA website,

http://www.nsa.gov/research/selinux/index.shtml

Then ask him why the USA government would invest time and money in securing a hacking tool.Ah no. NSA is not know for observing people's privacy.