Ubuntu Bug #1...Have we strayed?

[Excedio]

I recently discovered the first ever bug (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1) placed in Launchpad (At least I think it was the first one judging by the number it's been given). It was created by Mark Shuttleworth.

Does anyone feel as though we have strayed from the goal of this bug? Seeing how Ubuntu has evolved over time, especially recently, I don't know how to feel.

Don't get me wrong, I love Ubuntu, whole-heartedly. If I do change distros, it will have to be because of something huge.

I'm just curious how everyone else feels. I know that there have been "similar" threads lately about "is Ubuntu changing in the wrong direction?" But I create this to bring focus to Mark's Bug Report.

Have we come closer to the goals of the bug or moved farther away?

[NCLI]

I recently discovered the first ever bug (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1) placed in Launchpad (At least I think it was the first one judging by the number it's been given). It was created by Mark Shuttleworth.

Does anyone feel as though we have strayed from the goal of this bug? Seeing how Ubuntu has evolved over time, especially recently, I don't know how to feel.

Don't get me wrong, I love Ubuntu, whole-heartedly. If I do change distros, it will have to be because of something huge.

I'm just curious how everyone else feels. I know that there have been "similar" threads lately about "is Ubuntu changing in the wrong direction?" But I create this to bring focus to Mark's Bug Report.

Have we come closer to the goals of the bug or moved farther away?

The fact that the number of people using Ubuntu has risen to ~12 million from ~8 million just two years ago suggests to me that we are on the right path.

[NMFTM]

How has Ubuntu strayed? It's became the leading desktop distro. Besides breaking compatibility with Debian, I don't see anything the developers have done wrong.

[fatality_uk]

Don't get me wrong, I love Ubuntu, whole-heartedly... but


Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix.

Strayed? How exactly? The goals are mapped out there for all to see. Stuff like moving a close button, which is what seems to have got people in such a state over recently hardly warrants a whole scale re-evaluation of Bug#1


The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes.

This is happening. So many respins use Ubuntu as a base because of the behind the scenes work that makes it stable, user friendly, compatible with so much more hardware than ever before and marketed correctly.

[Excedio]

The fact that the number of people using Ubuntu has risen to ~12 million from ~8 million just two years ago suggests to me that we are on the right path.
I can agree with this.



How has Ubuntu strayed? It's became the leading desktop distro. Besides breaking compatibility with Debian, I don't see anything the developers have done wrong.

I personally do not know if Ubuntu has strayed or not. I like a lot of what's happening lately, however, some things I read make me feel nervous.

Why does Canonical use so many proprietary services? Mainly UbuntuOne's backend.

Again though...Please know that I am happy with my Operating System. I am just curious how people feel about where Ubuntu stands compared to Bug #1.

[NCLI]

Why does Canonical use so many proprietary services? Mainly UbuntuOne's backend.

So many? AFAIK, that only proprietary service in the core Ubuntu functionality is the software on the servers which form the backend for the UbuntuOne storage service.

[Excedio]

Strayed? How exactly? The goals are mapped out there for all to see. Stuff like moving a close button, which is what seems to have got people in such a state over recently hardly warrants a whole scale re-evaluation of Bug#1

Again...Not saying that Ubuntu has strayed. Asking if people think we may have. So far the consensus is "No."

As for the minor cosmetic stuff, like moving the Close buttons to the left side.... I couldn't care less about that. I can move my mouse a 1/8" to the left and click close on that side instead.


The only constant it change.

[thebigob]

Ubuntu is defiantly changing. Old hard core users love the command line and ubuntu is starting to move away from this and incorporate more and more functionality into the GUI's.

Is this a bad thing? OF COURSE NOT!!!!

Many people (especially now) couldn't use the command line to save themselves this is what modern operating systems provide and Ubuntu is very nearly there so that non cli junkies can use this os without any problems.

The reason I love Ubuntu is now it has the look and feel AND the cli. Something which in my opinion puts it head and shoulders above the rest:guitar:

[Excedio]

So many? AFAIK, that only proprietary service in the core Ubuntu functionality is the software on the servers which form the backend for the UbuntuOne storage service.

Fixed my statement. However...

http://blog.canonical.com/?p=330



Is the new service Open Source?
No, it’s not. It is, however, built and hosted on open source technologies (python, django, apache and postgres amongst others).


I realize that it's a Server that it utilizing Open software. This was the original plan: http://blog.launchpad.net/podcast/launchpod-15-launchpads-going-open-source

[Excedio]

Ubuntu is defiantly changing. Old hard core users love the command line and ubuntu is starting to move away from this and incorporate more and more functionality into the GUI's.

Is this a bad thing? OF COURSE NOT!!!!

Many people (especially now) couldn't use the command line to save themselves this is what modern operating systems provide and Ubuntu is very nearly there so that non cli junkies can use this os without any problems.

The reason I love Ubuntu is now it has the look and feel AND the cli. Something which in my opinion puts it head and shoulders above the rest:guitar:


Agreed. :-)

[ibuclaw]

The fact that the number of people using Ubuntu has risen to ~12 million from ~8 million just two years ago suggests to me that we are on the right path.

I'm pretty certain that the estimated figure was 46 million, perhaps I dreamt that ... or had a nightmare once. :)

(edit): It was probably the number of Open Office users...

[98cwitr]

You can find Ubuntu on many netbooks...we've come a long way in the past 6 years imho. Just give it another 2 and before Dec. 21st 2012...we might see some progression in this.

[kaldor]

The fact that the number of people using Ubuntu has risen to ~12 million from ~8 million just two years ago suggests to me that we are on the right path.

Yes, but how many of those are dual booting with Windows/OS X or not using it as their primary OS? Maybe even people who only used/downloaded it to recover something and never touched it again? It's not ~12 million switchers.

Ubuntu just needs to make itself known and have a reason for people to switch. Gaming is a big thing. Microsoft Office is another thing, but OpenOffice is nearly there.

[98cwitr]

wait wait...how are those users measured? b/c according to statcounter (http://gs.statcounter.com/#os-US-monthly-200904-201004) they measure it by the collection of web data. That would require the user to significantly browse the web for statcounter to collect data about their computer. Therefore it would suggest that the user would be "using" the OS for more than just restores or recoveries. just sayin.

[samalex]

Ubuntu is defiantly changing. Old hard core users love the command line and ubuntu is starting to move away from this and incorporate more and more functionality into the GUI's.

Is this a bad thing? OF COURSE NOT!!!!

Many people (especially now) couldn't use the command line to save themselves this is what modern operating systems provide and Ubuntu is very nearly there so that non cli junkies can use this os without any problems.

The reason I love Ubuntu is now it has the look and feel AND the cli. Something which in my opinion puts it head and shoulders above the rest:guitar:

Honestly I'm one of those command line junkies, but using the Ubuntu Alternative CD I can choose to install a CLI only system which is nice, plus even using the standard desktop edition I can install pretty much anything I want in CLI via apt-get which is equally nice.

So on older systems, servers, desktops, netbooks, it looks like Ubuntu can do it all. NICE!

Sam

[fatality_uk]

The CLI is like eating all your food with a toothpick. you can do it, but you wouldn't want to daily.

[98cwitr]

Honestly I'm one of those command line junkies, but using the Ubuntu Alternative CD I can choose to install a CLI only system which is nice, plus even using the standard desktop edition I can install pretty much anything I want in CLI via apt-get which is equally nice.

So on older systems, servers, desktops, netbooks, it looks like Ubuntu can do it all. NICE!

Sam

then just use Ubuntu server

[blueturtl]

The CLI is like eating all your food with a toothpick. you can do it, but you wouldn't want to daily.

Dr. DOS:


The GUI Restaurant:

In the GUI Restaurant you are not allowed to speak to the waiter. You go in, sit down and the waiter places a menu in front of you on which there are three images: one of Breakfast, one of Lunch, and one of Supper. It's noon time so you place your finger at the top of the menu where you must run it past "Breakfast" to get to the "Lunch" picture. You tap it once.

At this point, the waiter opens a lunch menu and places it on top of the first. You place your finger at the top of that menu and run it past all the stuff you don't want until you get to say, "Hamburger". You tap once.

At this point, the waiter opens another menu and places it on top of the first two. This one has everything that one might want on the burger. You place your finger at the top of the menu and run it past all the stuff you don't want until you get to say, "Cheese". You tap once. You then run your finger past some more stuff you don't want and tap on "Relish". You tap some more to signal to the waiter that you have finished selecting.

At this point, the waiter removes the third menu and you notice that there is a picture at the bottom of the second menu representing Beverages. You tap on it and the waiter places a mini menu depicting various beverages on top of the second menu. You place your finger at the top of this menu and run it past all the stuff you don't want until you get to say, "Juices". You tap on it and yet another menu is placed on top of the beverage menu showing the various juices available. You place your finger at the top of this menu and run it past all the beverages you don't want until you get to say, "Orange Juice". Now, yet another menu is placed on top of this one with pictures showing the various sizes. You place your finger at the top of this menu and run it past all the sizes you don't want until you get to say, "Large".

Finally, you then tap on the waiter to fold & remove the table full of menus, and you eventually get your order.

The TUI Restaurant:

Say to the waiter: "Cheeseburger with Relish, and a large Orange Juice". It arrives immediately. (-:

[NCLI]

Yes, but how many of those are dual booting with Windows/OS X or not using it as their primary OS? Maybe even people who only used/downloaded it to recover something and never touched it again? It's not ~12 million switchers.

Ubuntu just needs to make itself known and have a reason for people to switch. Gaming is a big thing. Microsoft Office is another thing, but OpenOffice is nearly there.
That is not possible to measure. But in reality, Canonicals numbers are probably a very conservative estimate.

wait wait...how are those users measured? b/c according to statcounter (http://gs.statcounter.com/#os-US-monthly-200904-201004) they measure it by the collection of web data. That would require the user to significantly browse the web for statcounter to collect data about their computer. Therefore it would suggest that the user would be "using" the OS for more than just restores or recoveries. just sayin.

We don't know.

[swoll1980]

I see nothing that indicates this. They are increasing market share, and the Ubuntu OS still contains only free software. You say you have no opinion on whether, or not they strayed, so why start the thread?

[Excedio]

I see nothing that indicates this. They are increasing market share, and the Ubuntu OS still contains only free software. You say you have no opinion on whether, or not they strayed, so why start the thread?


I stated that already.



*snip* I'm just curious how everyone else feels. I know that there have been "similar" threads lately about "is Ubuntu changing in the wrong direction?" But I create this to bring focus to Mark's Bug Report.

Have we come closer to the goals of the bug or moved farther away?


I did also state an Opinion...


*snip* I like a lot of what's happening lately, however, some things I read make me feel nervous. *snip*

[nothingspecial]

The CLI is like eating all your food with a toothpick. you can do it, but you wouldn't want to daily.

That may be true for you.

[Flimm]

Dr. DOS:
Quote:
The GUI Restaurant:

In the GUI Restaurant you are not allowed to speak to the waiter. You go in, sit down and the waiter places a menu in front of you on which there are three images: one of Breakfast, one of Lunch, and one of Supper. It's noon time so you place your finger at the top of the menu where you must run it past "Breakfast" to get to the "Lunch" picture. You tap it once.

At this point, the waiter opens a lunch menu and places it on top of the first. You place your finger at the top of that menu and run it past all the stuff you don't want until you get to say, "Hamburger". You tap once.

At this point, the waiter opens another menu and places it on top of the first two. This one has everything that one might want on the burger. You place your finger at the top of the menu and run it past all the stuff you don't want until you get to say, "Cheese". You tap once. You then run your finger past some more stuff you don't want and tap on "Relish". You tap some more to signal to the waiter that you have finished selecting.

At this point, the waiter removes the third menu and you notice that there is a picture at the bottom of the second menu representing Beverages. You tap on it and the waiter places a mini menu depicting various beverages on top of the second menu. You place your finger at the top of this menu and run it past all the stuff you don't want until you get to say, "Juices". You tap on it and yet another menu is placed on top of the beverage menu showing the various juices available. You place your finger at the top of this menu and run it past all the beverages you don't want until you get to say, "Orange Juice". Now, yet another menu is placed on top of this one with pictures showing the various sizes. You place your finger at the top of this menu and run it past all the sizes you don't want until you get to say, "Large".

Finally, you then tap on the waiter to fold & remove the table full of menus, and you eventually get your order.

The TUI Restaurant:

Say to the waiter: "Cheeseburger with Relish, and a large Orange Juice". It arrives immediately. (-:

The TUI Restaurant:
You pull out a manual, and after hours of studying hard, you order in Arabic.
If you don't understand Arabic, tough.

There, fixed that for you. http://ubuntuforums.org/images/icons/icon12.gif

[NCLI]

The TUI Restaurant:
You pull out a manual, and after hours of studying hard, you order in Arabic.
If you don't understand Arabic, tough.

There, fixed that for you. http://ubuntuforums.org/images/icons/icon12.gif

I think what blueturtl posted is how an expert CLI-user would fare against an expert GUI-user.

[Jpenguin]

^I like using the CLI, but I like my GUI; I alway want to have the option of the added control of the CLI, but for most task I like the GUI


I think Ubuntu is heading in the right direction, but MONO is going to do do it's best to keep us back


KILL MONO-- USE GTK, FLTK, & QT4

[randumnumber]

I'd say it is definitely changing, and its definitely changing in the right direction.

[Ebere]

I think what blueturtl posted is how an expert CLI-user would fare against an expert GUI-user.

.....FROM, an expert CLI uswer's point of view.

What Flimm posted, would be from the viewpoint of the expert GUI user.

[arnab_das]

Fixed my statement. However...

http://blog.canonical.com/?p=330




I realize that it's a Server that it utilizing Open software. This was the original plan: http://blog.launchpad.net/podcast/launchpod-15-launchpads-going-open-source

go through this.

Ubuntu / Launchpad Single-Sign-On Now Open Source

http://fridge.ubuntu.com/node/2023

[asddf]

I think we are on the right track, but it's all about marketing and without Microsofts money it's hard for Ubuntu to compete in marketing.

Hopfully as Ubuntu finds new ways to make money such as the music store and online storage, Ubuntu will afford more marketing.

[murderslastcrow]

We're not trying to copy Windows, or even replace it, but to achieve an equal marketshare or more. And I think his goals to be better than OS X are logical, since, if you can have a system better than that fancy expensive system everyone's drooling over, for free, on a REALLY OLD computer, why would you even think of using anything else, except for legacy software compatibility?

The answer is, people would at least want to dual boot in the majority of cases, or use a Virtual Machine.

With Steam coming to Linux, iPhones being supported by default, and the new video editors coming out and blowing people away, the only thing I can see stopping people from using Linux full-time is the Adobe Creative Suite. And, since Adobe seems to support Ubuntu as an ISV, it's probable that they would develop for Linux, or at the very least develop for Wine for the sake of compatibility.

After all, if you develop for Wine, you're technically developing for EVERYTHING running on 32-bit/64-bit processors.

So yeah, I think we're well on our way, and a lot closer than ever, with 10.04.

[sudoer541]

The TUI Restaurant:
You pull out a manual, and after hours of studying hard, you order in Arabic.
If you don't understand Arabic, tough.

There, fixed that for you. http://ubuntuforums.org/images/icons/icon12.gif

Or in other words, you have to hold the menu and copy every single letter from the menu to the computer accurately. If not, then you gotta start from the beginning.
plus, 95% of computer users us GUI therefore majority rulezzz!!!:P:)

[jrusso2]

Ubuntu has strayed so far from doing anything about bug 1 thats its not even a bug anymore.

[Excedio]

go through this.

Ubuntu / Launchpad Single-Sign-On Now Open Source

http://fridge.ubuntu.com/node/2023

Nice! Thanks for the heads-up. :-)

[blueturtl]

I think what blueturtl posted is how an expert CLI-user would fare against an expert GUI-user.

Actually the point I wanted to make was that using the CLI is not like eating your food with a toothpick, after you learn how to use it. Of course it can feel like that or like you're trying to order in Arabic, before you learn to use it.

Anyway, I feel that bug #1 is quite within reach. Ubuntu was created as a necessary step to address the bug. Qualitywise we are on par and in some cases beyond the competition. However I seriously hope that Mark and Canonical realize that having a superior product alone is not enough. They need to actively seek bundling deals with OEMs to have Ubuntu hit store shelves.

We need market visibility outside the internet. That's how most consumers still make their OS choice... by going to a store and picking up a system. The OS is a secondary consideration in most cases so what needs to happen is that there needs to be attractive hardware sitting on the shelf bundled with Ubuntu ready to go.

[Excedio]

Actually the point I wanted to make was that using the CLI is not like eating your food with a toothpick, after you learn how to use it. Of course it can feel like that or like you're trying to order in Arabic, before you learn to use it.

Anyway, I feel that bug #1 is quite within reach. Ubuntu was created as a necessary step to address the bug. Qualitywise we are on par and in some cases beyond the competition. However I seriously hope that Mark and Canonical realize that having a superior product alone is not enough. They need to actively seek bundling deals with OEMs to have Ubuntu hit store shelves.

We need market visibility outside the internet. That's how most consumers still make their OS choice... by going to a store and picking up a system. The OS is a secondary consideration in most cases so what needs to happen is that there needs to be attractive hardware sitting on the shelf bundled with Ubuntu ready to go.


I agree with you completely. :-)

[philinux]

Thread closed at OP request.