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kaldor
April 27th, 2010, 07:35 PM
I am a bit torn between the menus in the windows and the global menu.


For Global Menu

-Saves screen space for the running application
-Asthetically pleasing
-More focus on individual applications; do work on one window without interfering with others
-Control an application even if the main windows are not open (such as in IM programs)


Against Global Menu

-Always sitting there
-Bad on large screens; works wonderfully on my 13'' macbook, but is a TOTAL pain using the large 24" iMacs in stores.
-Harder to multitask

Should Ubuntu ever adopt the global menu? Do any of you use the global menu? Who hates it with a passion?

BrokenKingpin
April 27th, 2010, 07:49 PM
I personally hate the concept of a global menu.

AlanR8
April 27th, 2010, 08:08 PM
Have been using Global Menu for almost a year now and like it. I also use the Mac4Lin theme so maybe I'm beyond redemption!

That said there are a couple of things. On a fresh install of Lucid 10.4 Beta, the minute I installed Global Menu, Gwibber wouldn't work and neither will the System Monitor. Odd, but I can live without both.

aysiu
April 27th, 2010, 08:23 PM
The next release of the Netbook Remix will have a global menu:
http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/359

Sugz
April 27th, 2010, 08:39 PM
IS this just a widget that the user can add? or is it now an integral part of the UI as like Mac OSX?

NightwishFan
April 27th, 2010, 09:34 PM
Global menu does save space. Personally I prefer my panel to only be for tasks that deserve a quick glance or that I would want over my applications at all times. (Battery icon, sound etc).

Viva
April 27th, 2010, 09:37 PM
Does it work well with firefox?

frankbooth
April 27th, 2010, 09:38 PM
global menu does save space. Personally i prefer my panel to only be for tasks that deserve a quick glance or that i would want over my applications at all times. (battery icon, sound etc).

+1

zekopeko
April 27th, 2010, 10:14 PM
Does it work well with firefox?

The current implementation (from the global menu team) doesn't support Firefox or Openoffice. But they (Ubuntu devs) will patch those apparently.

blur xc
April 27th, 2010, 10:26 PM
Does it work well with firefox?

I love the global menu - run it on my desktop pc. And no, it doesn't work at all w/ FF or open office (and other apps). It pretty much only works with gnome apps (gtk?). :(

BM

arnab_das
April 27th, 2010, 10:27 PM
i always thought of global menu as very imac thing. but then again, ubuntu is indeed turning out to be our very own free OSX!

blur xc
April 27th, 2010, 10:31 PM
i always thought of global menu as very imac thing. but then again, ubuntu is indeed turning out to be our very own free OSX!

Well, fundamentally, it is more like OSX than windows to begin with...


BM

kaldor
April 27th, 2010, 10:32 PM
but then again, ubuntu is indeed turning out to be our very own free OSX!

Oh god no! Ubuntu is Ubuntu, looks or not :)

I embrace the changes that borrowed from OS X ideas. But, they're still Ubuntu.

arnab_das
April 27th, 2010, 10:42 PM
Well, fundamentally, it is more like OSX than windows to begin with...


BM

yup true. btw i'm not at all against the OSX look. just would like canonical to innovate a bit and improve upon OSX's ideas. that would be really awesome. simply aping (sorry, i couldnt find a better word) OSX's looks and features wont really help in the long run.

zekopeko
April 27th, 2010, 10:43 PM
yup true. btw i'm not at all against the OSX look. just would like canonical to innovate a bit and improve upon OSX's ideas. that would be really awesome. simply aping (sorry, i couldnt find a better word) OSX's looks and features wont really help in the long run.

Did you miss the part where they are doing that or planning on doing that? Check out Mark's post.

arnab_das
April 27th, 2010, 10:53 PM
Did you miss the part where they are doing that or planning on doing that? Check out Mark's post.

oh thanks for pointing it out. the alt thing to global menu would be really awesome!

arnab_das
April 27th, 2010, 11:02 PM
the major problem I had with global menu was the fact that it wont support all apps. also once one uses global menu, switching through apps can be tiresome. unless u run 1 app per workspace. that then necessitates the need for the bottom panel (with the windows selector) which would then obliterate any chance of installing AWN.

blur xc
April 27th, 2010, 11:07 PM
switching through apps can be tiresome.

How so? Alt-tab still works, doesn't it? And on the desktop with good graphics performance, I use the compiz scale plugin the rest of the time...

With regards to the netbook remix- I wonder how much space it will save over the current setup w/ the maximus applet.

BM

arnab_das
April 27th, 2010, 11:09 PM
How so? Alt-tab still works, doesn't it? And on the desktop with good graphics performance, I use the compiz scale plugin the rest of the time...

With regards to the netbook remix- I wonder how much space it will save over the current setup w/ the maximus applet.

BM

with alt+tab i lose the maximise and minimise effects of compiz. thats a deal breaker. :(

sudoer541
April 28th, 2010, 03:21 AM
I personally hate the concept of a global menu.


anyone has a screenshot of global menu?, cuz I dont know what u talking bout!!!!!!:)

MasterNetra
April 28th, 2010, 04:08 AM
Actually you can globalize your menu in windows too. Granted the only way I know is manually move all start menu stuff from the other account folders in documents & settings into the all users one. A slight annoyance but meh whats so diffcult about Ctrl+A-ing all the user start menu folder contents, cuting then pasting. Unless you got 100's of users... ...hmm a app could be made for that I suppose.

arnab_das
April 28th, 2010, 05:56 AM
anyone has a screenshot of global menu?, cuz I dont know what u talking bout!!!!!!:)

here's a screenshot. notice the top panel having menus.

the8thstar
April 28th, 2010, 06:26 AM
anyone has a screenshot of global menu?, cuz I dont know what u talking bout!!!!!!:)

Here is another one:

http://omploader.org/tNGF2Yw (http://omploader.org/vNGF2Yw)

chessnerd
April 28th, 2010, 07:05 AM
For Global Menu

-Asthetically pleasing
This is only a personal opinion. I don't like the way a global menu looks.

Honestly, I see several problems:

1. It doesn't seem very intuitive to me. If you are using a small application (like a calculator) down near the bottom of the screen you need to bring your mouse to the top to change any settings. Also, you have to shift focus to a different window before you can see what its menu options are.
2. It's sort of confusing. To get back to Finder you have to know to click somewhere on the desktop. Also, what would be the "Finder" for Ubuntu? Nautilus doesn't really fit.
3. It forces programs to have menu bar menus. Some programs, like Chrome, don't use conventional menus, but Chrome for Mac has a menu because of the global menu. Yes, most programs have a menu bar, but more and more are starting to move toward newer, simpler GUI styles.



Who hates it with a passion?
In what I hate about the Mac OS X GUI, the "global menu" is third after the dock and floating tool bars.

When it comes to the OS X GUI, to say that I "hate it with a passion" is to say that Richard Stallman "has a few issues" with proprietary software. To me, Mac OS X's GUI is a blight upon all reality. It's very existence, a cross that I must bear. With every Mac I see a part of my soul is ripped from my body! My loathing of that GUI produces a physical agony that is, to me, as instinctive and natural as hunger or breathing. I wouldn't even spit in Steve Job's direction because he doesn't deserve the water. :twisted:

Hopefully you can tell that this was an overdone rant and that I'm not serious. I don't like OS X's GUI very much, but it is not "a blight upon all reality." (Maybe the bane of existence, but surely not a blight :P).


Now, I know what you're thinking: Ubuntu moved the window buttons. What do you think of that?

Honestly, when Ubuntu moved its buttons to the left I was fine at first. However, when I saw that they changed the order to mimic that of OS X I was upset. The order Max, Min, Close was okay to me, but Close, Min, Max hurt. No, I'm not kidding about that. My heart sank when I saw the GUI update in beta 2...

NightwishFan
April 28th, 2010, 07:15 AM
I like buttons on left, the global menu I do not like, I prefer my applications to be all one window. However, when every pixel counts, I am sure it would help a lot.

Mark said in a blog post he will be making the Ubuntu global menu compatible with KDE, Firefox, etc... Which should make fans of it happy.

del_diablo
April 28th, 2010, 08:03 AM
Why would you want a global menu when gmrun mapped to alt+f2 just works?

antenna
April 28th, 2010, 08:10 AM
Why would you want a global menu when gmrun mapped to alt+f2 just works?

That's not really what global menu is.. (besides alt+f2 works in gnome). Have a look at the screen shots above.

ssam
April 28th, 2010, 09:47 AM
anyone has a screenshot of global menu?, cuz I dont know what u talking bout!!!!!!:)

http://mtaram.wordpress.com/2009/11/09/mac-os-evolution/

notice that the menubar is always at the top of the screen, rather than in the application windows. when you switch between applications the menubar changes.

hilden (the UI for nokia interent tablets) has another style of global menu. the whole menu appears vertically when you click the applications name at the top of the screen.
you can see in these screen shots http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=18684

Penguin Guy
April 28th, 2010, 04:10 PM
In my opinion, the global menu increases the amount of mouse movement needed to do a task. Far better to have the window, and the window's menu together.

ve4cib
April 28th, 2010, 04:47 PM
In my opinion, the global menu increases the amount of mouse movement needed to do a task. Far better to have the window, and the window's menu together.

It may require more mouse movement, but the movement is a lot less-precise and therefore easier (and often faster). Instead of having to move the mouse precisely over a menu in the middle of the screen you can simply throw the mouse to the top, using the edge of the screen as a backstop to prevent you from going too far.

At any given time the easiest places for the user to put their mouse are:

1- The mouses's current location (no movement necessary)
2- The corners of the screen (throw the mouse diagonally and you'll stop precisely in a corner)
3- The edges of the screen (throw the mouse orthogonally and you'll stop somewhere on an edge)
4- Anything in the middle of the screen (precise movement always required)

Most good UIs make heavy use of that list. WMs like Fluxbox and JWM capitalize a lot #1 by having the root-menu accessible via clicking wherever the mouse currently happens to be. Gnome and KDE go for the root/panel menu in a corner (#2). Pretty much everything uses screen edges for window lists/docks. The right edge (with maximized windows) has scroll bars.

But if you look at your typical Windows/Linux interface with some maximized windows the top edge of the screen has very little. Look at a typical Windows machine: the top edge has a titlebar with the max/min/close buttons on the right, the icon on the left, and wasted space in the middle. Macs/Linux boxes with a global menu make much better use of that easy-to-get-to top screen edge.

Ultimately it's all a question of personal preference. Which takes more time, throwing the mouse to the top edge of the screen, or carefully picking out something in the middle with no backing? I find global menus far easier to use -- especially with a trackpad, but I can definitely see how others might not.

aysiu
April 28th, 2010, 04:55 PM
It may require more mouse movement, but the movement is a lot less-precise and therefore easier (and often faster). Instead of having to move the mouse precisely over a menu in the middle of the screen you can simply throw the mouse to the top, using the edge of the screen as a backstop to prevent you from going too far. This is true in most cases, but if you have a 15" laptop with an extended desktop to a 24" display, it is definitely not easier to get to the top of the other screen just to select a menu item.

ve4cib
April 28th, 2010, 05:01 PM
That's where keyboard shortcuts and/or high mouse accelleration are your friends. But like I said before: global menus work for some people, and don't work for others.

Something I didn't mention before: if you're working with maximized windows there's not much of a difference between going to the standard menu strip versus going to the very top of the screen. Maybe 24 pixels further to go?

aysiu
April 28th, 2010, 05:12 PM
That's where keyboard shortcuts and/or high mouse accelleration are your friends. But that's basically making up for a shortcoming in terms of what you're describing (what's easy for your mouse to gravitate toward). I'm simply pointing out that there are situations in which a global menu is not ideal. (It also means you can't hit that menu item unless the application in question is in focus.).

I don't know how Ubuntu is planning to implement the global menu, but one of the annoying things about Mac OS X's global menu is the lack of keyboard shortcuts. Sure, I can press three keys at once (Control, Fn, and F2) to get to the menu bar, but then I still have to use my arrow to navigate to all the menu items. Annoying.

In Windows and Linux, I can use the keyboard to get directly to what I want. If I want the File menu, Alt-F. If I want the Edit menu, Alt-E.


But like I said before: global menus work for some people, and don't work for others. Same with non-global menus.

zekopeko
April 28th, 2010, 05:29 PM
But that's basically making up for a shortcoming in terms of what you're describing (what's easy for your mouse to gravitate toward). I'm simply pointing out that there are situations in which a global menu is not ideal. (It also means you can't hit that menu item unless the application in question is in focus.).

I don't know how Ubuntu is planning to implement the global menu, but one of the annoying things about Mac OS X's global menu is the lack of keyboard shortcuts. Sure, I can press three keys at once (Control, Fn, and F2) to get to the menu bar, but then I still have to use my arrow to navigate to all the menu items. Annoying.

In Windows and Linux, I can use the keyboard to get directly to what I want. If I want the File menu, Alt-F. If I want the Edit menu, Alt-E.

Same with non-global menus.

I don't see why they wouldn't keep Alt-F etc key-bindings for it. Ideally all the applications would start to move to a more Chrome-like behavior when menus are in play.

blur xc
April 28th, 2010, 05:51 PM
Where global menus shine is on small screens trying to maximize verticle space. I've got a 1600x900 monitor, and on that, it's very nice. There's another discussion about 10.10 NBR using global menu by default, and in that case, I think it should work out nicely, since you almost always run apps maximized on the small netbook screens (1024x600, I think).

For a 6 - 24" monitor setup, yeah, I could see how it would make for a horrible user experience... It's all about the right tool for the right job.

BM

ve4cib
April 29th, 2010, 05:25 AM
Both my laptops are 1280x800 monitors, and I've done my best to squeeze out every available inch of vertical space. Global menus are great for that.

As for the question of Alt-* quick-keys for getting at the global menu, I can't speak for everything, but Gnome2-Globalmenu (http://code.google.com/p/gnome2-globalmenu/) does support those quick-keys.

the8thstar
April 29th, 2010, 06:53 AM
Both my laptops are 1280x800 monitors, and I've done my best to squeeze out every available inch of vertical space. Global menus are great for that.

As for the question of Alt-* quick-keys for getting at the global menu, I can't speak for everything, but Gnome2-Globalmenu (http://code.google.com/p/gnome2-globalmenu/) does support those quick-keys.

+1 on that.

AlanR8
April 29th, 2010, 07:49 PM
I said, earlier in this thread....


That said there are a couple of things. On a fresh install of Lucid 10.4 Beta, the minute I installed Global Menu, Gwibber wouldn't work and neither will the System Monitor. Odd, but I can live without both.

Just to let you know this is now sorted by installing the latest update that's supported in Lucid as below.


sudo add-apt-repository ppa:globalmenu-team

sudo apt-get update

sudo apt-get install globalmenu

Can't take the credit for this as its posted elsewhere in the forum.