Adobe's war with apple may open the door for linux

[madjr]

interesting reads:


Adobe ditches iPhone, Bets on Android. apple not biggest source of income. (http://www.osnews.com/story/23137/Is_Apple_Betting_on_Adobe_Ditching_the_Mac_)


Many Ubuntu users want photoshop, they may work with canonical (http://blogs.computerworld.com/15991/ubuntu_would_welcome_adobe_to_linux)


Hey, Adobe: Dump Apple, go Linux (http://blogs.computerworld.com/15975/hey_adobe_dump_apple_go_linux)



while i like Gimp, there's no doubt that lots of users still need to dual-boot to use photoshop, required for work.

they could either port it over or work with the wine/canonical guys to better integrate it (similar to picassa).

This could lead to even more companies supporting the linux platform and a possible jump in market acceptance.

i agree flash needs to get separated from youtube and other video sites, but i used it for games and some apps on daily basis, it's showing no signal of dieing (if ever). in fact this may be the time to get the performance right

[Crunchy the Headcrab]

interesting reads:


Hey, Adobe: Dump Apple, go Linux (http://blogs.computerworld.com/15975/hey_adobe_dump_apple_go_linux)


Many Ubuntu users want photoshop, they may work with canonical (http://blogs.computerworld.com/15975/hey_adobe_dump_apple_go_linux)


Adobe ditches iPhone, Bets on Android. may ditch mac (http://www.osnews.com/story/23137/Is_Apple_Betting_on_Adobe_Ditching_the_Mac_)

The first two links are the same. I hate Apple, but I've got a feeling they're going to win this war. By that I mean nobody is going to stop buying their products because of diminished functionality. If that were the case they wouldn't buy them in the first place.

[LowSky]

Most people have no idea what Flash really is, until they find out they cant watch a video.

What is going to change is when more and mopre tablets come out that work fully with internet content. When we see under $200 tablets running android we will see more and more people running toward the new format.

[Crunchy the Headcrab]

I suspect Apple is going to try to take flash down. If Google doesn't do it first that is.

[areteichi]

I agree with many of the comments made below the first CW article. I think this guy really has no clue as to how much Adobe's business depends on Apple. Flash as a platform is one thing, Adobe's business is entirely another.

[Dr. C]

I agree with many of the comments made below the first CW article. I think this guy really has no clue as to how much Adobe's business depends on Apple. Flash as a platform is one thing, Adobe's business is entirely another.

Adobe can port its applications to GNU / Linux. They do not have to drop support for Mac OS X. Also such a move by Adobe can lead other propriety Mac OS X software vendors to follow. Such a move can hurt Apple since users of say Photoshop now have another alternative to Windows apart from OS X, and at the same time reduce Adobe's dependence on Apple. My take is that Canonical may be smelling blood here.

[user1397]

The fact that Apple is going to war with friggin' Adobe could be said to be brave, but it is more foolhardy than valiant.

Adobe has flash, photoshop, acrobat, lightroom, dreamweaver, fireworks, etc (the CS line-up) which is fundamental for so many businesses / individuals.

Going to war with them is not exactly the best idea, but it's hard to predict the winner...both have 2-handed claymores and giant viking shields! (okay enough with the metaphors :-({|=)

[disturbed1]

Flash is meaningless and on it's way out. Today it's seen as nothing more than a medium to deliver ads. Video streaming using flash is, honestly, old technology. Streaming flash is only kept around for legacy reasons while the next thing is hammered out. Remember, at one time Real was THE streaming format of choice :)

Apple, and Apple owners have felt ill will towards Adobe for years now. At one time Adobe created first rate applications that were above Adobe's Microsoft offerings. These offerings went from above par, to on par, to currently below par. Adobe's offerings on Microsoft's OS blows the identical Apple offerings away. In features, price, and performance. Adobe originally sited that the performance difference was caused by the PPC platform, however, the performance difference stayed the same, and was worse for some, once Apple made the switch to Intel x86 instruction CPUs.

I don't see Adobe porting, nor releasing their products on GNU/Linux. This is easy and plain to see by the half-baked flash support centered around false claims and unintelligent developers making excuses for it's (Flash) lack luster performance.

And the second link from the OP is nothing more than poor journalism (not caused by the OP ;))
Many Ubuntu users want photoshop, they may work with canonical Who may work with Canonical? With what? Why? Where? It's an empty statement with no credibility.

Apple dropped Flash support because of very well known facts. Flash has poor performance, poor stability, and uses too much CPU. This equates to a poor customer experience along with lower battery life.

People need to wrap their head around HTML5 and consider Google's recent purchase on ON2 technologies. Google (Youtube) is the king of online streaming media. Which ever path they choose, people will follow.

Another thing that seriously bothers me, is the fact that GNU/Linux users will complain that a $600 Adobe product is not available, but won't offer $5 towards the devolopement of GIMP. If 50% of the people that complain there is no Photoshop would give GIMP, or any other Open Source developer, $5-$10 .... well you do the math - Unless they all planned/hoped on pirating the application. [-X

[Frak]

You listened to SJVN, I am disappoint.

[chucky chuckaluck]

Hey, Adobe: Dump Apple, go Linux (http://blogs.computerworld.com/15975/hey_adobe_dump_apple_go_linux)

yeah, great idea! go from 5% of the market that's used to paying too much for everything to 1% of the market that's used to getting stuff for free. (i suppose they could always make money on support calls.)

[witeshark17]

The first two links are the same. I hate Apple, but I've got a feeling they're going to win this war. By that I mean nobody is going to stop buying their products because of diminished functionality. If that were the case they wouldn't buy them in the first place. That last bit isn't reasonable; OS X and Arperture are hardlly "diminished functionality". Go ahead, argue that. :lolflag:

[m4tic]

the idea is one of the dumbest things ive heard. Linux users, please don't offer business tips. If you want photoshop, why did you cry over yahoo search? And why photoshop if you'll still complain its closed source. We'll never gain recognition as long as there are those who whine over search engines.

[Crunchy the Headcrab]

That last bit isn't reasonable; OS X and Arperture are hardlly "diminished functionality". Go ahead, argue that. :lolflag:
Good point. I like OSX. I was referring to the Iphone, and Ipad mostly.

[Frak]

the idea is one of the dumbest things ive heard. Linux users, please don't offer business tips. If you want photoshop, why did you cry over yahoo search? And why photoshop if you'll still complain its closed source. We'll never gain recognition as long as there are those who whine over search engines.
This * 1/0

[mkendall]

This * 1/0

You do realize that your comment makes no sense. I know you were trying to say "This times infinity" (which also makes no sense) but 1/0 does not equal ∞. The limit as x approaches 0 for 1/x also doesn't equal ∞. It is undefined. There is no value. It is a nonsensical mathematical statement.

However, the limit as x approaches 0 from the right for 1/x does equal ∞. And the limit as x approaches 0 from the left for 1/x equals -∞.

Lastly, you cannot multiply with ∞. ∞ is not a number.




Had to get that off my chest.

[Frak]

You do realize that your comment makes no sense. I know you were trying to say "This times infinity" (which also makes no sense) but 1/0 does not equal ∞. The limit as x approaches 0 for 1/x also doesn't equal ∞. It is undefined. There is no value. It is a nonsensical mathematical statement.

However, the limit as x approaches 0 from the right for 1/x does equal ∞. And the limit as x approaches 0 from the left for 1/x equals -∞.

Lastly, you cannot multiply with ∞. ∞ is not a number.




Had to get that off my chest.
Feel better now?

[JDShu]

I know you were trying to say "This times infinity"

Or s/he could have meant his opinion about the comment is undefined :D

[Frak]

Or s/he could have meant his opinion about the comment is undefined :D
I love math.

[tubezninja]

Wasn't it not too long ago that linux users were complaining about the SAME THING Mac users complain about? That Flash performs poorly and hogs resources?

Here's another viewpoint:

http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2010/04/10/five-tremendous-apple-vs-adobe-flash-myths/

Trust me, the linux community DOES NOT want Adobe as a "partner."

At any rate, the irony in here is amazing. Apple is promoting the use HTML5, CSS... you know, open standards. And here some people are saying that linux should embrace Adobe's litany of closed platforms, merely because Apple wishes otherwise.


Sorry, but in this case the enemy of your enemy is NOT your friend.

[Ruzbeh]

I hate Apple
But why?

[Roasted]

But why?

Because they're a bunch of cut throat bastards who over-charge users for their systems and also sue everybody and their mother over copyright infringement when the areas that are being "infringed" on wasn't even Apple's idea in the first place?

The company as a whole... sucks. Even from an Apple fanboy standpoint, I find it impossible to argue that.

[Frak]

Because they're a bunch of cut throat bastards who over-charge users for their systems and also sue everybody and their mother over copyright infringement when the areas that are being "infringed" on wasn't even Apple's idea in the first place?

Good, you just described 90% of Fortune-500 companies. Have a cookie.

[tubezninja]

Because they're a bunch of cut throat bastards who over-charge users for their systems

So don't buy them.

[Ruzbeh]

Good, you just described 90% of Fortune-500 companies. Have a cookie.
"You know what, you're right. I'll have a cookie. Om nom nom. This is pretty good. What's it called? Oreos, yum. Who makes these? What? Kraft Foods (http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/2008/snapshots/293.html)!? NNNNNNOOOOOOOOOO"

[madjr]

Good, you just described 90% of Fortune-500 companies.

Disgusting but true

[NCLI]

Disgusting but true

Still, Apple is worse than most when it comes to how it treats its partners and users.

[Frak]

Still, Apple is worse than most when it comes to how it treats its partners and users.
Oh, there are companies that make Apple look like Mother Teresa. Apple is much more respective of their customer base, than say, any insurance company.

[mkendall]

Feel better now?

Yes. Thank you for your time.

[matchett808]

Lets not escape the fact that a linux port of photoshop etc would increase (linux's) marketshare. However unlikely such an event would be, it would be great to see such a thing happen.....

I think that the apple vs adobe thing is hitting a critical point, and I actually expect to see a move (like a proper move, not this posturing) out of one or t'other pretty soon....

[chucky chuckaluck]

Lets not escape the fact that a linux port of photoshop etc would increase (linux's) marketshare.

how do you figure that? i can't imagine anyone switching to linux just to use the linux version of photoshop. (am i missing something?)

[Frak]

how do you figure that? i can't imagine anyone switching to linux just to use the linux version of photoshop. (am i missing something?)
I can see piracy skyrocketing.

[MasterNetra]

I can see piracy skyrocketing.

Unlikely, the systems which the piracy will occur will spread out over onto linux, the high prices adobe charges is what is encouraging many people to Pirate it. Have you seen the price for the CS5 Design Premium? its $1900 USD! and Master Collection $2600. Adobe seriously needs a worthy competitor to drive these prices down.


how do you figure that? i can't imagine anyone switching to linux just to use the linux version of photoshop. (am i missing something?)

Indeed. Sense Ubuntu and many linux distro's use considerbly less resources then windows, prehaps mac but dunno what it idles at, which means the adobe apps can be ran on a lower end machine which means when designers go to upgrade their machines they can settle for a lower end model to save money. Also lets not forget that Ubuntu is free and thus designers don't have to waste money purchasing the next version of a OS. Also lets not forget about linux's superiority in secuirty over windows. So yea Free & Secure make it a appealing alternative.
What has held back many designers is adobe's lack of a linux installer for its CS products. And wither or not you like it, the truth is, in the design industry Adobe's products are the standard tools of the trade.

[madjr]

how do you figure that? i can't imagine anyone switching to linux just to use the linux version of photoshop. (am i missing something?)

just look at maya or other linux compatible 3d software and linux render farms.

companies want to use linux, adobe could see an opportunity here and then linux would get even more adoption

it's a vicious cycle.

[yester64]

Adobe can port its applications to GNU / Linux. They do not have to drop support for Mac OS X. Also such a move by Adobe can lead other propriety Mac OS X software vendors to follow. Such a move can hurt Apple since users of say Photoshop now have another alternative to Windows apart from OS X, and at the same time reduce Adobe's dependence on Apple. My take is that Canonical may be smelling blood here.

Adobe and Apple have a long and ruff relationship. Both need each other and it was always about who has the upper hand.
Remember Postscript. That was before MS came into the picture with Truetype.
My assumption is that Apple has the bigger lever and made its case for HTML5. This would mean also a win for users.
Besides, i do not see or come to the same conclusion that developers would flock to GNU because Apple ditches Flash. It's about business and as far as i can see, i haven't seen any major missteps from apple really. At least not one which would've hurt their position.
Apple is for the time being in a much better position then any other manufacture. Thats just a fact.
So i am not seeing any open doors for linux in general. The dream to replace Mac with Windows was dreamed at the time Windows surfaced. But you forget that Apple has a very devote following, which reminds me off Commodore.
Flash may be still around for some time, but i think it will be replaced eventually.

[matchett808]

I was more indicating a rise in switchers from1 less barrier being present and a possible decrease in dual booting (due to removing the 'one last tie' to ms/osx) this should mean an increase in adoption which would mean companies supporting linux like graphics tablets for instance which would probably mean an overspill into other hardware devices.....this is all speculation and of course is 'best case scenario'

I am in no way saying that such a move would give an increase up to 20 or 30 percent but the ripples could add steam...

As far as I see it there are a few barriers to widespread Linux adoption....one of which is basically the root of the problem and is the lack of 3rd party support, which is apperently due to the lack of users, this is a catch 22 situation, however, a company doing something 'out of spite' against another company could give the boost to adoption that is needed.

A far more likely event is the Gov't here in the UK (in the run up to the election, I mean all of the parties) have spouted an open source policy....this would in the UK give probably and increase quite quickly (after the policy took effect) at best a possible increase of 100,000 (I think that is less than the amount of public sector workers and supposing that they all decided to use linux on their home computer) this would then have a ripple effect adding more users, which could double linux's UK marketshare (600,000 @ 1%).
See how a small event could have a big event, not to mention the fact that the computers that the gov't installed Linux on could also be counted into the statistic......

All completely theoretical and best case scenario...but still worth a moment of thought...

[Frak]

Unlikely, the systems which the piracy will occur will spread out over onto linux, the high prices adobe charges is what is encouraging many people to Pirate it. Have you seen the price for the CS5 Design Premium? its $1900 USD! and Master Collection $2600. Adobe seriously needs a worthy competitor to drive these prices down.

$2600 is a good price. I'll only have to pay $900. But really, nothing even comes close to what Adobe offers. I don't want to hear gimp, because it doesn't. It doesn't even come close.

Of course, those who pirate the Creative Suite usually don't need it in the first place. Also, don't let me be the first one to say that Linux users have a pretty high piracy rate among computer users.


Indeed. Sense Ubuntu and many linux distro's use considerbly less resources then windows, prehaps mac but dunno what it idles at, which means the adobe apps can be ran on a lower end machine which means when designers go to upgrade their machines they can settle for a lower end model to save money. Also lets not forget that Ubuntu is free and thus designers don't have to waste money purchasing the next version of a OS. Also lets not forget about linux's superiority in secuirty over windows. So yea Free & Secure make it a appealing alternative.
What has held back many designers is adobe's lack of a linux installer for its CS products. And wither or not you like it, the truth is, in the design industry Adobe's products are the standard tools of the trade.

No serious designer is "budget conscious" about their machine of choice. More power means better workflow, period. A Macintosh guarantees this, and is one of the reasons Mac's are sold for design purposes so much.

[ElSlunko]

I'm very curious to see evidence of Linux users being more piratey. That might be because the small percentage of Linux users are more computer savy & know the resources avaiable to them when compared to the less savy, huge percentage of windows users.

Even then, I don't think that's really true. When I switched to linux I pretty much stopped pirating anything. I even bought Bibble 5 and a few paid plug ins. I'm happy to invest in anything that I can see returns on.

That said, Adobe's prices are completely fair. Considering the professionals that use them probably pay the price tag in a couple of gigs (or one even). The toolset provided by Adobe Photoshop are meant for professionals, but just happen to be useful to just anyone.

Finally, I think (in theory only, I don't have numbers to support this) that piracy has done an incredible job in spreading the popularity of photoshop & related products. Piracy doesn't threaten their bottom line because there are enough professionals out there that MUST stay legit to keep their pockets fat.

I'm probably a minority ... but just because I like using linux as my main OS it does not mean I don't like spending money. There are just some aspects of the computing needs for running my business that are less important to my end product -- so I'm happy that Linux gives me that flexibility and allow me to invest in tools I need & use free tools for tasks less important to my photography.

[yester64]

$2600 is a good price. I'll only have to pay $900. But really, nothing even comes close to what Adobe offers. I don't want to hear gimp, because it doesn't. It doesn't even come close.

Of course, those who pirate the Creative Suite usually don't need it in the first place. Also, don't let me be the first one to say that Linux users have a pretty high piracy rate among computer users.



No serious designer is "budget conscious" about their machine of choice. More power means better workflow, period. A Macintosh guarantees this, and is one of the reasons Mac's are sold for design purposes so much.

Somehow i can not multiquote.

Anyway, as far as piracy goes, people pirate no matter what the price is. It can be $5 and it would be pirated.
This is one of the reasons you see more development on a console versus pc. If you check any other major software you will find millions of 'cracked' copies.
Its a hypocrisy among users in a sense.
My point shall be that people do pirate and a lot. And its not just about price rather principle.

If a linux distro would have a key, you would find it most likely on isohunt w/free virus. :)

[cmat]

> $1000 software isn't as bad as you think. These software packages are not geared towards the home user but rather design firms. For example AutoCAD licenses I use are very expensive per PC but a single job can pay for it. Designers working with Photoshop usually use it for professional graphics design which they get paid for. It's something too unwieldy for the home user. This is why Photoshop Elements exists. The home user's addiction to Photoshop stems from either using it as a student or its blatant piracy.

No one in the right mind would spend $800 just to touch up pictures, crop images and apply Gaussian blur..

:popcorn:

[yester64]

> $1000 software isn't as bad as you think. These software packages are not geared towards the home user but rather design firms. For example AutoCAD licenses I use are very expensive per PC but a single job can pay for it. Designers working with Photoshop usually use it for professional graphics design which they get paid for. It's something too unwieldy for the home user. This is why Photoshop Elements exists. The home user's addiction to Photoshop stems from either using it as a student or its blatant piracy.

No one in the right mind would spend $800 just to touch up pictures and crop images.

:popcorn:
'
True, absolutely true.
I actually liked Adobes Photoshop Lite (was it 5 or 6 not sure). The last time i seen Elements (isn't that acquired by adobe?) i did not like it that much.
But if you ask even the most normal user, you will find (unless that changed really) that most will use Photoshop, MS Office etc.. i think my point was, that most user use the more expensive, 'standart' software. And honestly i don't think most even bought it. That would offend honest buyers, but thats how i see it.

[cmat]

'
True, absolutely true.
I actually liked Adobes Photoshop Lite (was it 5 or 6 not sure). The last time i seen Elements (isn't that acquired by adobe?) i did not like it that much.
But if you ask even the most normal user, you will find (unless that changed really) that most will use Photoshop, MS Office etc.. i think my point was, that most user use the more expensive, 'standart' software. And honestly i don't think most even bought it. That would offend honest buyers, but thats how i see it.

The last time I used it was as a student (version 7) and have never owned a copy. I used Corel PainShop when I was on Windows until I discovered GIMP. Most people I know, unless they got it though school, don't actually buy it. What's really sad is that some institutions I attended didn't either. Yeah I don't want to offend the occasional honest buyer but it's true and people need to appraise the situation for what it is. Pirating is at least one of the reasons its so popular amongst the "home user"/non-professional population.

It blows my minds seeing people with 3D Studio Max, AutoCAD and PS installed on a single PC. I'm suprised so many people have $5000 CAD to spend on software and aren't in any industry that requires them.

[Chronon]

I can see piracy skyrocketing.

I'm not following. You foresee more pirating if Adobe released Linux versions of Creative Suite?

[Chronon]

Also, don't let me be the first one to say that Linux users have a pretty high piracy rate among computer users.


[citation needed]

Also, you need to define "pretty high" otherwise this borders on a meaningless statement.

[phrostbyte]

I don't think Adobe has any intention of releasing Photoshop for Linux. And people have a point, Linux users are used to free (of charge), why would you run this great free OS only to have some bloated $800 app run on top of it? You might as well buy Windows as well. :)

I think we should figure out ways to get our own tools (eg: The GIMP) funded and on par with proprietary alternatives. I see the ultimate goal not in gaining tons of marketshare, but gaining tons of marketshare and still being 100% free.

[madjr]

Of course, those who pirate the Creative Suite usually don't need it in the first place. Also, don't let me be the first one to say that Linux users have a pretty high piracy rate among computer users.



@Frak
are you speaking for yourself ?

the last time i pirated anything was when i was a windows user, in fact i never payed for software back then.

moving to linux, from 2007 on, i actually grew a conscious, not only did i started purchasing the software i liked, i also donated time or money to various FOSS projects.

i never knew anyone that actually paid for software in windows, pirating seems to be the way of life.

on the other hand i know many linux users who actually pay, specially if it's in the benefit of the platform

[phrostbyte]

@Frak
are you speaking for yourself ?

the last time i pirated anything was when i was a windows user, in fact i never payed for software back then.

moving to linux, from 2007 on, i actually grew a conscious, not only did i started purchasing software, i also donated.

Maybe you grew a conscious or you realised there is very little worth pirating anymore! :lolflag:

Linux users pirate what exactly? There is so little proprietary software for Linux. Really, this whole "pirating/warez" business is the stuff of Windows users. And the getting rooted in the process part as well. (Better pirate some anti-virus!) :P

I think everyone wants free software really, it's just Linux users do it the legal way. And honestly, I am not the one to judge, but if you have a copy of Photoshop and you aren't a design house or something of that sort... I'm going go off a on a limb here and say you probably didn't pay for it. Because $800 is not something a normal, middle class person would drop on a CD-ROM.

[Frak]

@Frak
are you speaking for yourself ?

the last time i pirated anything was when i was a windows user, in fact i never payed for software back then.

moving to linux, from 2007 on, i actually grew a conscious, not only did i started purchasing the software i liked, i also donated time or money to various FOSS projects.

i never knew anyone that actually paid for software in windows, pirating seems to be the way of life.

on the other hand i know many linux users who actually pay, specially if it's in the benefit of the platform
Exception, not the rule. You can tell by the amount of users on torrent sites that blatantly say that they "wish there were a Linux version, cuz linux iz soooo much bettr tan winoze".

I got CS4 through my company, but will be paying for CS5 upgrade on my own dime. Due to GNU/Linux's nature, it tends to attract those who are unwilling to pay for software. To ignore that would be blatant ignorance.

[phrostbyte]

Exception, not the rule. You can tell by the amount of users on torrent sites that blatantly say that they "wish there were a Linux version, cuz linux iz soooo much bettr tan winoze".

I got CS4 through my company, but will be paying for CS5 upgrade on my own dime. Due to GNU/Linux's nature, it tends to attract those who are unwilling to pay for software. To ignore that would be blatant ignorance.

What are you doing on torrent sites Frak? [-( Downloading Linux ISOs I hope!

[ElSlunko]

Due to GNU/Linux's nature, it tends to attract those who are unwilling to pay for software. To ignore that would be blatant ignorance.

I think that's an incorrect blanket statement to make considering all the pirated versions of Windows over the years floating around.

[antenna]

Huh, I doubt piracy for Linux users is very high at all.

[Frak]

What are you doing on torrent sites Frak? [-( Downloading Linux ISOs I hope!
Most recently looking for the Pixel image editor because I can't find a place to buy the darn thing and for music I can't find anymore or old programming books that are no longer printed.

[Frak]

Just want to comment on how defensive the users are in here. "No, I don't think piracy is high at all." Next thing you know people will be screaming heresy.

[phrostbyte]

Most recently looking for the Pixel image editor because I can't find a place to buy the darn thing and for music I can't find anymore or old programming books that are no longer printed.

So you admitting that you are attempting to commit copyright infringement? That's very convenient.

PS, you can contact the author over here:
http://www.kanzelsberger.com/pixel/?page_id=7

I am sure he will be able to arrange a legal transaction for you.

[Frak]

So you admitting that you are attempting to commit copyright infringement? That's very convenient.

PS, you can contact the author over here:
http://www.kanzelsberger.com/pixel/?page_id=7

I am sure he will be able to arrange a legal transaction for you.
Did, never responded.

[phrostbyte]

Did, never responded.

Then you can't use it.

[fromthehill]

Huh, I doubt piracy for Linux users is very high at all.
because it isn't neccesary

if you want to convert a video you can just install the right package from the repository. instead of downloading some crappy freeware or some trialware package with restrictions.

[Frak]

Then you can't use it.
Then I don't use Linux. The tools available are too inferior to suit my workflow. Pixel was closest, I contacted the author, never responded, so I'd get it and use it until it was sold and buy a license. Since that'll never happen since this is yet-another-commercial-Linux-application-that-will-never-hit-the-market, I ditched it like the wasteland it is.

[phrostbyte]

Then I don't use Linux. The tools available are too inferior to suit my workflow. Pixel was closest, I contacted the author, never responded, so I'd get it and use it until it was sold and buy a license. Since that'll never happen since this is yet-another-commercial-Linux-application-that-will-never-hit-the-market, I ditched it like the wasteland it is.

You think you have some kind of right to violate federal laws because you can't figure out how to buy something? I will not have sympathy if you get caught because where I am from that is called "justice".

[Frak]

You think you have some kind of right to violate federal laws because you can't figure out how to buy something? I will not have sympathy if you get caught because where I am from that is called "justice".
Point me to the page where I can buy it. OH GREAT PHROSTBYTE, LEAD THY WAY!

[phrostbyte]

Point me to the page where I can buy it.

No one is putting a gun to your head and forcing you to use this piece of software.

If you can't buy it, then you are not allowed to use it. The original author has no entitlement to sell you anything. Move on.

[Frak]

No one is putting a gun to your head and forcing you to use this piece of software.

If you can't buy it, then you are not allowed to use it. The original author has no entitlement to sell you anything. Move on.
You fail. You didn't give me the answer I asked for. I guess you can't back up your accusation. Nothing new for you, Phrostbyte.

[phrostbyte]

You fail. You didn't give me the answer I asked for. I guess you can't back up your accusation. Nothing new for you, Phrostbyte.

You seem to think you are allowed to pirate something because you can't figure out how to buy it. You are patently wrong. It's still piracy, no matter how you want to spin it. You are doing something illegal, and in my opinion, unethical.

[Frak]

You seem to think you are allowed to pirate something because you can't figure out how to buy it. You are patently wrong. It's still piracy, no matter how you want to spin it. You are doing something illegal, and in my opinion, unethical.
Less talky, more answery.

[ElSlunko]

I'm not being defensive, just disagreeing with you. I think most commercial software available for linux has a large amount of it's success due to the fact that it's cross platform. There ISN'T a huge money pocket in porting something to Linux because even if every single Linux user bought the same piece of software it would be a big 1% of all PC users.

I think a Linux user is as likely to be a pirate as much as a windows user isn't. Most windows users probably haven't actually purchased Windows separately. Many won't upgrade to a new version either 'till they purchase a new PC.

I'm pretty sure it has to do with my maturity level more so than what OS I use as to the reasoning as to why I don't pirate anymore. However, I do feel that having being given so much free software also affects my mentality towards commercial software. I'm much more willing to pay for software that takes my work to the level I need it to be at since I don't need to pay for other aspects of my daily computer use.

[phrostbyte]

Less talky, more answery.

What are you trying to prove? That because you can't buy something, you are allowed to pirate it? Don't you release how absurd this kind of thinking is?

What is next Frak? Are you going to start robbing houses because they refused to sell their stuff to you or something? "I tried to contact them first, but they he wouldn't sell me his TV." :-k

[Frak]

I'm pretty sure it has to do with my maturity level more so than what OS I use as to the reasoning as to why I don't pirate anymore. However, I do feel that having being given so much free software also affects my mentality towards commercial software. I'm much more willing to pay for software that takes my work to the level I need it to be at since I don't need to pay for other aspects of my daily computer use.

Of course. I'd never pay for an Intel Compiler as long as I have access to Clang. I'd never pay for REALBasic as long as I have access to HaXe. They're so high quality, I don't find a reason to pay for the commercial alternative.

[quinnten83]

Also, don't let me be the first one to say that Linux users have a pretty high piracy rate among computer users.





You better bring out the statistics before you start calling me a pirate.

[asddf]

It would be such a great move for Adobe, since Ubuntu is a serious competitor to the Macs

[MCVenom]

No one is putting a gun to your head and forcing you to use this piece of software.

If you can't buy it, then you are not allowed to use it. The original author has no entitlement to sell you anything. Move on.
This.

[ukripper]

I wonder when Google will come out with its own flash like streaming technology that would pis* both Apple and Adobe

[ibuclaw]

Why does everyone quite a number of people seem to perceive everything is a war these days. It's just normal marketing competition. Besides, Adobe have for a very long time been falling behind the game (http://www.businessinsider.com/the-underlying-story-behind-adobes-failed-mobile-strategy-2010-4), so comes really as no surprise.


I wonder when Google will come out with its own flash like streaming technology that would pis* both Apple and Adobe

They bought On2, and have planned to open source it later this year (http://googlesystem.blogspot.com/2010/04/google-will-open-source-on2-vp8-codec.html) - with both Chromium and Firefox supporting it - in a bid for closing the whole debate on which video codec to settle on for HTML5.

[asddf]

Adobe has anything but "fell behind the game" the first language I ever did was Actionscript, Flashes programming language.

That was in 2003 and Flash has grown stronger and stronger, the language behind it has been completely redone and Actionscript 3.0 the latest is now a very nice language, very similar to Java and it's OO.

Theres really nothing to rival Flash.

Java is too bulky, Silverlight failed miserably and Apple trying to force C++ and Objective-C are good languages, but there slow in development time and there not easy like Actionscript to learn.

I don't know that much about HTML5 at all, but as far as I know it has no actual programming power behind it.

[yester64]

As far as pirating goes, well we all did at one point. In the C64/Amiga days it was pretty much a given.
And i would argue that today it did not change that much.

But regarding flash, i think you will see flash for a while to come on the internet. But not to forget, that Adobe is he maker of Flash and as such has a monopoly.
Any animation or movie is displayed via Adobes creation. This monopoly is threaten by Apple right now. If apple succeds it will certainly benefit Linux as well.
The same could be said about silverlight. Also not very Linux friendly.
As a linux user i wonder why people embrace Adobe, unless you accept that there is a proprietary world and a opensource world.
If Adobe would win, Linux would not gain anything and still has to provide flash and have an insecure hole on the web.

p.s. i find it funny to some extent that a lot of people admited that they pirated with windows but found the right way of life with linux.

[Chronon]

Why does everyone quite a number of people seem to perceive everything is a war these days.

I think it is just perceived as effective rhetoric.

[WinterRain]

I don't want to hear gimp, because it doesn't. It doesn't even come close.


I find it amazing that 99% of all linux users are professional graphics artists, and need Photoshop. Who knew?

[matchett808]

I will admit that I used t pirate EVERYTHING in windows unless there was a proggy I needed or if it was premium AV that I wanted.....I still pirate other things on linux (mostly because i dont want to wait 2 years on my tv programmes catching up!) lol .......

[Frak]

You better bring out the statistics before you start calling me a pirate.


I find it amazing that 99% of all linux users are professional graphics artists, and need Photoshop. Who knew?

You both get cookies for taking offence to a piece of software. How sad.

[Chronon]

This seems like purposeful misinterpretation. It seems clear to me that people are objecting to your claim that Linux users are more likely than average to engage in piracy. They are not offended by a piece of software. :lolflag:

Please do furnish us with the information that supports your claim.

[ukripper]

They bought On2, and have planned to open source it later this year (http://googlesystem.blogspot.com/2010/04/google-will-open-source-on2-vp8-codec.html) - with both Chromium and Firefox supporting it - in a bid for closing the whole debate on which video codec to settle on for HTML5.


Open-sourcing VP8 could solve the problem, although it could take years until Google releases the code and browsers start to support the new format. Despite all the hurdles, it's rare to see a company that pays more than $100 million to open source a video codec.

That is why I have respect for Google.

[handy]

I haven't read the entire thread so maybe someone has mentioned something with regards to Apple's interests in Adobe?

In the early days Apple had 19.9% shares of Adobe, I don't know what the situation is now.

[peterj]

Hey, Adobe: Dump Apple, go Linux (http://blogs.computerworld.com/15975/hey_adobe_dump_apple_go_linux)

yeah, great idea! go from 5% of the market that's used to paying too much for everything to 1% of the market that's used to getting stuff for free. (i suppose they could always make money on support calls.)
I lol'ed.. so true.

[MasterNetra]

$2600 is a good price...
No serious designer is "budget conscious" about their machine of choice. More power means better workflow, period. A Macintosh guarantees this, and is one of the reasons Mac's are sold for design purposes so much.



That maybe but having to pay less for your machine means you can opt for a more powerful one. Mac's are nothing more then overpriced Fancy looking PC's with the Mac OS on it these days. You can configure the Pangolin Performance from system76 to the same level as the Mac-book Pro for only $964 and double the ram and hard drive space for only $93 more then the mac-book pro. So really why would you opt out 1.2k for the Mac-book pro when you can get a Linux based laptop for nearly twice the power at the same price? The only issue is of course is that CS# doesn't have a Linux installer yet. If Adobe was to provide one, Linux would become a more better looking platform for designers. PC prices means more bang for your buck and Linux itself needs no explanation. Granted I'm not expecting those who are still fine with their current mac's to jump into Linux, just those who are aware of it and are in the market for a new machine.

[whiskeylover]

That maybe but having to pay less for your machine means you can opt for a more powerful one. Mac's are nothing more then overpriced Fancy looking PC's with the Mac OS on it these days. You can configure the Pangolin Performance from system76 to the same level as the Mac-book Pro for only $964 and double the ram and hard drive space for only $93 more then the mac-book pro. So really why would you opt out 1.2k for the Mac-book pro when you can get a Linux based laptop for nearly twice the power at the same price? The only issue is of course is that CS# doesn't have a Linux installer yet. If Adobe was to provide one, Linux would become a more better looking platform for designers. PC prices means more bang for your buck and Linux itself needs no explanation. Granted I'm not expecting those who are still fine with their current mac's to jump into Linux, just those who are aware of it and are in the market for a new machine.

Good luck convincing non-techy people. I know people who think that when it comes to artistic design, there is no substitute for Apple. They don't know the difference between RAM and Hard Disk.

[MasterNetra]

Good luck convincing non-techy people. I know people who think that when it comes to artistic design, there is no substitute for Apple. They don't know the difference between RAM and Hard Disk.

Prehaps but I should only need to mention that the fact you can get a more powerful PC for less price, and that Linux is as secure if not more so then a mac OS while being more customizable, more flexible, and in most cases free of charge.

[bshosey]

To be honest aren't most things to day over priced POS. Think about it. Most companies believe make something the cheapest as possible and sale at the highest as possible. So there for most thing are over priced POS. And no this is not Point Of Sale.

I never liked Adobe for the prices of their software and I really do not like most of their software. The only product that Apple has that I like so far is the iPod Touch line. That is it. So I think both of the companies need a reality check. Now I also realize that Apple and Adobe are in the niche market and that is the way they want it for what I see.

[whiskeylover]

Prehaps but I should only need to mention that the fact you can get a more powerful PC for less price, and that Linux is as secure if not more so then a mac OS while being more customizable, more flexible, and in most cases free of charge.


Perhaps. But do you really think that people would believe you rather than the multimillion dollar ads that Apple has on TV on a daily basis?

[ukripper]

Perhaps. But do you really think that people would believe you rather than the multimillion dollar ads that Apple has on TV on a daily basis?

There is an app for that!:) http://techcrunch.com/2009/05/26/need-a-witty-app-for-that-phrase-theres-an-app-for-that/

[rottentree]

Perhaps. But do you really think that people would believe you rather than the multimillion dollar ads that Apple has on TV on a daily basis?

People believe ads?

[MasterNetra]

People believe ads?

+1

People who know me are most likely to believe me over a ad. As for the Blind Mac Fan boys, not much can be done about them.

[Chrysantine]

People who know me are most likely to believe me over a ad. As for the Blind Mac Fan boys, not much can be done about them.
Not unlike the blind Ubuntu fan boys then, eh?

[Grenage]

People believe ads?

Unfortunately, then tend to.

[whiskeylover]

+1

People who know me are most likely to believe me over a ad. As for the Blind Mac Fan boys, not much can be done about them.


People who know you aren't likely to buy a copy of Photoshop for $3000. Either they get a copy of it from their workplace (in which case the company makes the decision,) or they pirate it for their personal use.

Lets get real. People who actually buy these expensive software products don't bother with the cost of hardware in the first place.

[handy]

@Frak: My understanding is that the prime reason Macs were the leaders in desktop publishing is because a guy at Xerox worked out how to print WYSIWYG to laser printers.

He left Xerox & setup Adobe, Apple bought 19.9% of Adobe & at last had software (because they were failing at the time because IBM had software) that would give people a reason to buy a Mac.

The WYSIWYG advantage eventually went away, & these days the main advantage that OS X, has over windows is simplicity of use & the ability to safely run without extra virus-malware protection.

[MasterNetra]

People who know you aren't likely to buy a copy of Photoshop for $3000. Either they get a copy of it from their workplace (in which case the company makes the decision,) or they pirate it for their personal use.

Lets get real. People who actually buy these expensive software products don't bother with the cost of hardware in the first place.

Get real Adobe is the industry standard and while Gimp revivals Photoshop its neither superior or as good as it. There is no real good alternative to Flash Pro. And while I am not thrilled about needing to shell out $1800 for Web Design Premium at some point, its going to need to be done...sometime after shelling out $200 for Win7 to run it on. (Dual booting with Ubuntu of course). Btw Photoshop isn't 3k, Master Collection (CS5 which is available for preorder now) is 2.6k. Adobe though badly needs a strong competitor to drive these prices down...

[handy]

I bought Macromedia Studio MX some years ago, it was installed on a Powerbook initially, which I removed (when I gave the Powerbook to my wife) it was then installed on an XP machine.

I had no use for MX for a number of years, & had dumped windows (over 4.5 years ago now) though maybe a year ago I decided I wanted to create a website for myself, so I installed Dreamweaver & was put in the position where I had to contact those who now own Macromedia's products - Adobe, to activate my copy.

Adobe refused to activate it, they told me I had to buy another license!

I told the nice young man with the Californian accent that I would not buy a license for software I had already purchased & will therefore solve this problem via torrents.I also said that I would never give another cent to Adobe, though I wouldn't have anyway.

Boy are they hungry.

I think Apple & Adobe are a good pair of greedy corporations, I hope they cost each other a fortune in legal fees, though then of course the notorious greed of the legal firms wins - again.

[yester64]

+1

People who know me are most likely to believe me over a ad. As for the Blind Mac Fan boys, not much can be done about them.

Thats a pretty bold statement.
You know there are also people who run Linux on a mac.
Why people on this forum have to insult other groups of people. We are all fans of linux so no one need to alienate other people just because they did this heresy and bought a mac.

It is true that Apples Adds are well placed and are well done. Compare them to 'i am pc' or some linux adds.
Apple is always good in generating a demand. Thats just how it is.
I wouldn't be surprised to know how many people believe some other adds on tv which are sponsored by cooperations.

[handy]

I'm typing this through Arch/Openbox/xfce4-panel on my 24" iMac.

I like my system & the hardware it runs on, expecially since I ripped out the tiny 320GB HDD & put a 1.5TB WD Green HDD in it. :)

@yester64: You have to learn to live with the chauvinism of others & attempt to spot it in yourself so you can route it out whenever you identify it.

[yester64]

I'm typing this through Arch/Openbox/xfce4-panel on my 24" iMac.

I like my system & the hardware it runs on, expecially since I ripped out the tiny 320GB HDD & put a 1.5TB WD Green HDD in it. :)

@yester64: You have to learn to live with the chauvinism of others & attempt to spot it in yourself so you can route it out whenever you identify it.

True.
It reminds me, that computer users are always like that i suppose.
In the old days Amiga users claimed they were superior to Atari users and vise versa.
So i have to leave at that.
Still don't have a mac, but i am working on it. lol

[handy]

True.
It reminds me, that computer users are always like that i suppose.
In the old days Amiga users claimed they were superior to Atari users and vise versa.
So i have to leave at that.
Still don't have a mac, but i am working on it. lol

Yes, the personal identification with an idea or object & thinking or feeling as though anything that is being somehow critical of those ideas or objects is also being critical of the person is such a common problem with people.

Just because the Amiga was better than the Atari, & the Mac's of the time meant no more in the regard of personal value, than the owner of the Amiga had a superior piece of hardware & system.

If you follow through on the logic, it means that if the Amiga (for example) owner for whatever reason becomes computer-less, they have instantly become a less valuable human being to the world at large!

Possessions a superior person does not make. Far from it.

[dE_logics]

I appears Apple has bribed Adobe and MS too...they always do that anyway.

[handy]

I appears Apple has bribed Adobe and MS too...they always do that anyway.

Is that called investing in their future?

Apple are certainly not the only entity with those kinds of investment in their history.

[murderslastcrow]

There are a lot of people complaining about the price of Adobe products, and HTML5 has preliminary export support in Flash CS5. Also, if you look at canvasdemos.com, you'll see that HTML5 already can replace all of the functionality we currently see in Flash on the internet (heck, they ported Quake II to the web using HTML5 and WebGL).

So, even though I really hope Adobe does support Linux, and that this all ends with a fairer market for everyone, not a bunch of deals and manipulation, it seems that everyone wants Adobe's products to either become cheaper or overrun by another developer's products.

I'm totally on Adobe's side, though. Until Flash just isn't seen anywhere on the internet, they've provided a useful service, despite shady support in the past. I still want them to succeed as a company. They seem like they wanna' help everyone help them. XD

[Gallahhad]

Apple iPad's ship with direct links to YouTube on them. If nothing else, Apple intends to continue "supporting" Adobe for the foreseeable future if for no other reason than flash players. Yeah html-5 blah blah; but, there is an insane amount of content already setup in flash players. It will be years, maybe decades before the internet would be free of flash players.

On a side note, I like flash; it works great for me in all 3 operating systems. HTML-5, eeek, needs more time in the oven, get back to me when HTML-6 is ready.

[handy]

As I pointed out earlier Apple had 19.9% ownership in Adobe, whether that has increased I don't know, Id be very surprised if it has diminished.

Apples partnership in Adobe has a lot of ramifications I think.

[xir_]

As I pointed out earlier Apple had 19.9% ownership in Adobe, whether that has increased I don't know, Id be very surprised if it has diminished.

Apples partnership in Adobe has a lot of ramifications I think.

I am surprised that apple and adobe are having a tiff at all. It seems to me that recently apple has become far more aggressive to its partners.


I wonder if apples part ownership of adobe has anything to do with the poor Linux support.

[Chrysantine]

I am surprised that apple and adobe are having a tiff at all. It seems to me that recently apple has become far more aggressive to its partners.
Sensationalist news is sensationalist. We don't know anything about what is really happening behind closed doors, all we have is some news sites reporting things so they'll get more hits, more ad revenue and more syndication.


I wonder if apples part ownership of adobe has anything to do with the poor Linux support.
No, it has much more to do with the fact that the Linux desktop user base is not significant enough to warrant porting it over. Porting the whole Master Suite would be a significant investment with relatively small chance of generating revenue.

Not to mention the support nightmare of having to support 50 distributions. I wouldn't do it either.

[xir_]

Sensationalist news is sensationalist. We don't know anything about what is really happening behind closed doors, all we have is some news sites reporting things so they'll get more hits, more ad revenue and more syndication.


No, it has much more to do with the fact that the Linux desktop user base is not significant enough to warrant porting it over. Porting the whole Master Suite would be a significant investment with relatively small chance of generating revenue.

Not to mention the support nightmare of having to support 50 distributions. I wouldn't do it either.


from what i understand the porting shouldn't be to hard actually, the openGL should be quite strait forward. The main problem is the ppc emulators still used in photoshop which would require sections to be re written for x86.


I think it would be simple if they standardized around ubuntu (but then i would).


As far as the poor support goes, adobe has just one employee working full time on linux flash and has stated most problem comes from no standard graphics interface type.

I also think there are more desktop linux users than android users yet flash is being actively ported to that platform.


Anyway, you can't disagree that apple seems to be a bit more willing to get into a fight lately. maybe boosted by their strong market performance.