Linux on the Desktop vs Gaming on PCs

[JDShu]

Something I've been randomly thinking about, regarding two rather unrelated areas of geek culture.

I was talking to a friend and after talking a little bit about Linux and other tech stuff, and the topic moved on to PC gaming and its impending doom (in my opinion). I made an idle comment that PCs are probably to gaming what Linux is to the desktop, at least in marketshare. With his immediate reaction being that its not even close. Which when I think more clearly, he's probably right. Still, its an interesting comparison. What do you guys think?

[Bölvaður]

I think you're both wrong in talking about it.
But gaming is not a big thing on personal computers if you actually think about it. Does his mom play quake arena?

[JDShu]

Ah, maybe I should clarify. What I mean is that Linux (at least on the desktop) is something that only a small minority of enthusiasts use. PC gaming, I think, in the world of video games, is becoming less significant and is increasingly only played by die-hard PC gamers. WoW and the Sims being notable exceptions.

[PurposeOfReason]

Gaming on the PC is far from dead. Heck, steam just gave out mac support. That is a huge power move.

[JDShu]

Gaming on the PC is far from dead. Heck, steam just gave out mac support. That is a huge power move.

I've always been interested in how widespread steam is. Phoronix says that they're releasing for Linux as well, though I dunno what games it will offer.

[orlox]

Gaming on the PC is far from dead. Heck, steam just gave out mac support. That is a huge power move.

Also, a linux client of steam seems to be inminent

http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=ODE3Mw

[madjr]

Ah, maybe I should clarify. What I mean is that Linux (at least on the desktop) is something that only a small minority of enthusiasts use. PC gaming, I think, in the world of video games, is becoming less significant and is increasingly only played by die-hard PC gamers. WoW and the Sims being notable exceptions.

MMORPGS is what keeps pc gaming fueled

casual/indie second (mostly web games)

education being third

hardcore last (mostly taken over by consoles)

[asddf]

You couldn't be more wrong.

Games are a long way from hardcore gamers now, games like WOW and Second Life have a huge diversity of people playing them.

Second Life(Native Linux support)

[fatality_uk]

Also, a linux client of steam seems to be inminent

http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=ODE3Mw

Has been for years!

[Bachstelze]

Something I've been randomly thinking about, regarding two rather unrelated areas of geek culture.


PC gaming is an area of geek culture? News to me...

[P4man]

PC gaming isnt dead yet, but its well on its way. The vast majority of games we get nowadays are console ports (and often pretty poor ports at that). There are exceptions, but that is the rule.

Its a simple fact that console games are way more profitable, and PC games for most publisher increasingly an after thought; often one that doesnt make money.

Looking forward I see 2 things that will revolutionize the gaming market. First is handheld gaming, which is already well on its way to overtake consoles as major gaming business.

The second is remote gaming:
http://www.otoy.com/

With something like otoy or onlive, you will be able to game any game on any device (and OS) as long as its connected. A tablet, your phone, a 10 year old PC you thought was obsolete, even your tv through your tivo or ISP settop box. It almost cant fail; gaming as a service. no more piracy. Endless possibilities for pricing schemes and even ads. Keep on eye on google getting in to this or buying one of these startups.

[Roasted]

Saying that PC gaming is going to die is by far the absolute biggest joke I've ever heard of.

[kaldor]

I don't understand why people say PC gaming is dying out... people have said it for years, and I have no doubt in my mind that those statements are false. I am not a huge gamer, but from what I see the gaming community is pretty huge and showing no signs of slowing down.

Gaming, weather you like it or not, really IS a big factor on desktop computers outside of the business world (ie, on home computers). I don't know of anybody under the age of 40 (in person) who doesn't have at least one game for their computer.

Casual gamers often play stuff like The Sims, Spore and such.

Hardcore gamers usually play shooters like Quake, Doom, CoD and all those other famous titles. Some even make a lot of money from competing.

I just feel lucky that all the games I do play are actually Linux-native or run "platinum" in Wine.

[P4man]

Saying that PC gaming is going to die is by far the absolute biggest joke I've ever heard of.

Indeed what a joke.
http://www.winsupersite.com/images/paul/mailbag/gaming_consoles_vs_pcs.jpg

Now add handheld gaming to that, and remote gaming.

[Roasted]

Indeed what a joke.
http://www.winsupersite.com/images/paul/mailbag/gaming_consoles_vs_pcs.jpg

Now add handheld gaming to that, and remote gaming.

Oh, hi. Yes - it's a joke. Thanks.

[MooPi]

I'm a gaming addict and only play on PC/Windows7 system. PC gaming is much bigger than you could imagine. I can login to a Battlefield Bad Company2 server any time of day or night and find a lively game. Same goes for Counter Strike(older game) and Left4Dead. The list could go on & on. I just love to kill cyber terrorist :P

[P4man]

I guess it depends how you define "death" in this context. If you mean > $0/year market worldwide, then sure, it will probably never die. By that metric Im sure the Atari 5200 gaming isnt dead either, Im pretty sure a few games will be sold on ebay each year. Playstation 1 would be thriving I suppose.

If you define dead as marginal and insignificant compared to the overall gaming market, then its death is a certainty (if not already a reality)

[forrestcupp]

I made an idle comment that PCs are probably to gaming what Linux is to the desktop, at least in marketshare.I kind of agree. But Linux has a lot less market share than PC's do with gaming. Another difference is that Linux market share is rising, while PC gaming is falling.

Ever since the C64 days, I have always been a fierce proponent of computer gaming over consoles. Recently, I've changed my stance. After relinquishing my stubbornness, I realized that console gaming is a lot smoother. If you buy a console, all the games made for it just work without any hardware upgrades or hassle (as long as you don't screw it up by trying to mod it). There is no having to go with the lowest settings because you don't have a good enough GPU. And Gamestop has a lot of really cheap used games.


I don't understand why people say PC gaming is dying out... people have said it for years, and I have no doubt in my mind that those statements are false. I am not a huge gamer, but from what I see the gaming community is pretty huge and showing no signs of slowing down.
If you don't think there are any signs of PC gaming slowing down, you're not looking. P4man's graph is one interpretation of sales that prove that it's going downhill.

PC gaming will never die, but it's obvious that the thrust is going into consoles now. If they're making money from consoles and not PCs, where do you think they're going to put their focus?

But there are some genres of games that just work better on PCs, and that's why it will never die out.

[P4man]

edit: misread never mind

[MooPi]

Games like WOW probably will keep PC gaming active and alive for many years to come. With the new StarCraft coming out shortly I predict another surge in PC gaming or another reason it won't die out soon.

[Paqman]

I made an idle comment that PCs are probably to gaming what Linux is to the desktop, at least in marketshare.

It's not quite that bad. PC games in the US make up about 6% of the market by value, or 9% by volume. Desktop Linux is about 1%.

Source (http://www.theesa.com/facts/salesandgenre.asp)

PC gaming is strong in some genres, and that will never change. They're just not the genres that have millions of teenagers glued to the screen.

[antenna]

According to some posts over here (http://forums.gametrailers.com/thread/something-to-brighten-your-day/1019823) those numbers are practically meaningless. And then there's other (http://news.bigdownload.com/2010/01/29/valve-offers-up-2009-user-and-sales-numbers-sort-of-for-steam/) articles that suggest PC gaming isn't exactly dying.

[Roasted]

To be honest, I think Steam has a tremendous amount to do with PC gaming being as sustained as it is. It's just so... genius... and Steam reaching out to Mac and ultimately Linux... gah... :guitar:

[MooPi]

Thanks antenna for the links about Steam. It confirms my notion that PC gaming is very much active and alive. I don't console game but have a question for all the console gamers. Do you have the same interaction among players on consoles as you do in PC gaming. Live chat and voice interaction on PC's is a critical part of it's draw and why I enjoy PC gaming. I'm going to guess that the difference in demographic between console and PC gamers is PC gamers tend to be geeks and consolers your average couch potatoes.

[P4man]

According to some posts over here (http://forums.gametrailers.com/thread/something-to-brighten-your-day/1019823) those numbers are practically meaningless. And then there's other (http://news.bigdownload.com/2010/01/29/valve-offers-up-2009-user-and-sales-numbers-sort-of-for-steam/) articles that suggest PC gaming isn't exactly dying.

I agree with some of the caveats, and accurate numbers may be hard to come by, but the trend is undeniable. Talk to any major game publisher.

Also, to put things in perpsective, Vavle had a revenue of $70m in 2007 according to wikipedia (cant find any other numbers as they are a privately held company). Im sure it has grown since (at the expense of retail sales), but its not likely to change to overall picture.

[cascade9]

Ever since the C64 days, I have always been a fierce proponent of computer gaming over consoles. Recently, I've changed my stance. After relinquishing my stubbornness, I realized that console gaming is a lot smoother. If you buy a console, all the games made for it just work without any hardware upgrades or hassle (as long as you don't screw it up by trying to mod it). There is no having to go with the lowest settings because you don't have a good enough GPU. And Gamestop has a lot of really cheap used games.

Point on 'lowest settings'. Works both ways though, if you do have older setup, you can (in some cases) still play newer games, just not at 1920x1200. You simply cant do that with consoles.

The variable hardware for computers vs consoles static hardware has ups and downs, for both sides.



If you don't think there are any signs of PC gaming slowing down, you're not looking. P4man's graph is one interpretation of sales that prove that it's going downhill.

True, the numbers have fallen. If you trust that graph (which I would take with a grain of salt, myself) computer gaming is still almost at the billion $ a year mark in 2007 (and even if that has fallen to 700millon like from Paqmans link) that is still a Lot Of Money.

From what I know, some of the reason why there has been a fall is because of the deals between publishing houses and console manufacturers- games almost always come out on a console 1st, by quite a large margin. If everything had a concurrent release, the figure could well be very different.

Anyway, since when is there one console? You would rerally need to split the figures up into PS2/PS3/Xbox/Xbox360/Wii/computer. Just lumping all the consoles in together gives the wrong idea IMO.


But there are some genres of games that just work better on PCs, and that's why it will never die out.

True. There are some games that do work better on consoles (e.g. almost everything released for wii) but a lot of games that have had console releases that sold very well that are much nicer with keyboard/mouse (e.g. any version of GTA)

BTW, all the 'serious' gamers I know have computers, and a few consoles for games, and use all of them. The only execption to that rule is the guy I know who has serious reading troubles (dyslexia, which I have a mild version of, and I understand why he doesnt do computer gaming)

[wykedengel]

Gaming is eternal. There will always be people who play games, just like there will be people who read books or watch movies. However, what will shape the future of gaming is when developers realize that the Linux market is an untapped resource waiting for hardware manufacturers and game developers to utilize. Imagine being about to buy a PC game, pop it in your drive and have it recognize which OS you're using and install the appropriate version of the game? And for cripes sake, it's time to allow players to compete across platforms and bring the PC and console peeps together.

[P4man]

Gaming is eternal. There will always be people who play games, just like there will be people who read books or watch movies. However, what will shape the future of gaming is when developers realize that the Linux market is an untapped resource waiting for hardware manufacturers and game developers to utilize.

Well, PC gaming is somewhere around 10% of the overall gaming market (I actually think it might be lower if you include handheld mobile gaming). Of that 10% Linux share toady is what, 2% ? 2% of 10% is 0.2%. Not exactly a gold mine for game studio's.


Imagine being about to buy a PC game, pop it in your drive and have it recognize which OS you're using and install the appropriate version of the game?

Imagine the cost for developing, testing and supporting the game for all OSs platforms.

More likely is that you will just connect to an online streaming server from whatever device, running whatever OS, select your game and start playing just like you watch tv now, just interactively and with a game controller of some sort. People have been saying it cant be done due to lag, but digging a bit in to this, it seems a server located at or near your ISP should be able to get input lag thats roughly equal to the delay between 2 frames at 60 Hz. IOW, pretty much non existent.

[JDShu]

I kind of agree. But Linux has a lot less market share than PC's do with gaming. Another difference is that Linux market share is rising, while PC gaming is falling.

Ever since the C64 days, I have always been a fierce proponent of computer gaming over consoles. Recently, I've changed my stance. After relinquishing my stubbornness, I realized that console gaming is a lot smoother. If you buy a console, all the games made for it just work without any hardware upgrades or hassle (as long as you don't screw it up by trying to mod it). There is no having to go with the lowest settings because you don't have a good enough GPU. And Gamestop has a lot of really cheap used games.


Yeah, this is almost exactly me, just that I'm not old enough to remember the C64 :P

I wasn't sure what the data is for the market share of PCs in gaming, but I always feel sad walking into Gamestop and seeing the magically shrinking PC game shelf. As people have mentioned, maybe its because Steam is making an impact.

[chappajar]

PC games still have superior input methods and resolution.
I know mice and keyboards exist for consoles, but they are rare, and most importantly, console games are written to suit console controller input, not mouse + keyboard.

When an FPS is written with cross-platform multiplayer in mind the input has to be fudged to somewhere between what is suitable for controllers and what is suitable for mice so that PC players don't have an advantage.

When console FPSs are written for mice, and when console games have the resolution of PC games I may consider the possibility of buying a console :D

[chappajar]

PC games still have superior input methods and resolution.
I know mice and keyboards exist for consoles, but they are rare, and most importantly, console games are written to suit console controller input, not mouse + keyboard.

When an FPS is written with cross-platform multiplayer in mind the input has to be fudged to somewhere between what is suitable for controllers and what is suitable for mice so that PC players don't have an advantage.

When console FPSs are written for mice, and when console games have the resolution of PC games I may consider the possibility of buying a console :D

Add RTS to the list of ''better on a PC'':
''We haven't found a control scheme that we like that would allow you to play at the same level or close to the same level, and so no console'' He's referring to mouse and keyboard control.

[Lightstar]

Gaming is very big on PC, bigger than people think.
If you look up the number of people playing mmorpgs, simple flash games, or even card games, it's a huge number of people.

I play on the PC more than consoles. I find it easier to play shooters using a mouse, much more accurate for me. And for mmorpg, consoles aren't a match. Same for strategy games.

Action / Adventure / Fighting games, I play on consoles. But I have a ps2 controller adapter for the pc so I do play games like Dead Space and Assassin's Creed on PC, my monitor is alot better than my tv, and pc games have much more options than console games.