JooJoo - iPad alternative, runs crummy/limited Linux distro

[earthpigg]

this thing:

http://hackaday.com/2010/04/04/joojoo-turns-out-to-be-legit-gets-torn-down/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JooJoo

video with default software:
http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/01/the-joojoo-is-here-seriously/

Ya, so. I actually think it isn't to bad, software aside. Which can be easily solved. I don't want to drop several hundred dollars on the possibility that i may be able to install maemo or android - or even a custom Ubuntu/Debian .iso that comes with virtual keyboard functionality and hardware support for this thing OOB.

what do you guys think of this thing?

and another question: why do companies feel the need to reinvent the software wheel when they release great new hardware?

-early eeePC's and modified xandros
-Dell and their needlessly modified Ubuntu (the infamous Dell update that bricked Dell Mini 9s...)
-the JooJoo guys
-etc

modify the distro (ubuntu, android, maemo, whateveR) juuuust enough that the software you pick works on your hardware, and leave it at that.

[MaxIBoy]

It's not supposed to be a "computer." It's an "appliance." The difference? "Appliances" are underpowered, but that's okay. Because it's not as if they're intended as real computers. I mean, it's not like you expect your washing machine to run Unigine Heaven, right? And this "appliance" is so much more versatile than your washing machine, and it costs less too! I'll take twelve!

Marketing a computer as an appliance is a dishonest practice akin to bring crutches to an amputee fight. (Okay, that was in poor taste, but still.) The iPad, and its ilk, were they marketed as actual computers, would of course be recognized as underpowered, impractical, overpriced, keyboard-less crap. I think this is exactly the reason why "pocket PCs" never went anywhere. So that's not how these devices are marketed anymore, and the UI suffers for it.

[earthpigg]

interesting, MaxIBoy. i hadn't thought of it that way before.

Anyways, I just e-mailed them...


Hi,

Are there any artificial barriers (EULA, warranty, etc) to replacing
the software that ships with it with software of my choosing?

What is the process by which a user can tell the joojoo to boot from
whatever is in the USB port, for example?

Regards,

Chris

i should probably have clarified that i'd be interested in knowing any other method of flashing the device, too.

edit: e-mail #2 from me...


Whoops: Any other method of flashing the device, aside from taking the
SSD out, plugging it into my computer, and dd'ing it?

Regards,

Chris

[Mr. Picklesworth]

Yep, I have about the same opinion. Nice bit of hardware, ugly software.

The most important issue, in my view, is the mystery meat navigation. Web designers learned this was a bad idea a long time ago. Here these guys are doing a web-centric device and they have a ton of screen space, yet they can't bring themselves to put labels on buttons so people can understand what they are going to do before pressing them.

I look forward to Meego and ChromeOS taking over this space :)

[earthpigg]

The most important issue, in my view, is the mystery meat navigation.

i didn't know there was a name for that. i just know i hate it.

in this case, it assumes the user has all of the various logos of the dozens of websites memorized.

[madjr]

hmm Android would be a beast on this pad

i hope chromeOS doesnt become as boring as the modified OS the joojoo has.

i dont think this will succeed

1st: this thing costs $500....

2nd: ChromeOS pads will cost $180 to $300

3rd: android is the only OS right now that is a "direct" competitor to iPad

4th: for $500 that's the least they could had included

5th: i might wait for a real Droid pad


ps. this pad was suppose to be the legendary CRUNCHPAD (years in the making before the ipad was even news)

it was going to be cheaper/better/cooler and ready like 6 months ago

too bad their partners were greedy as*h*les and screw everything up

[Tristam Green]

I'd *only* be interested in this thing if it could run Windows 7 Starter, or a *cough*comparable Linux distribution.

[madjr]

I'd *only* be interested in this thing if it could run Windows 7 Starter, or a *cough*comparable Linux distribution.

am not sure why u would want to run traditional desktop OSs like w7 or even normal ubuntu on these pads

everything has to be done with the fingers so it could lead to problems

[Paqman]

Marketing a computer as an appliance is a dishonest practice akin to bring crutches to an amputee fight.

I disagree. I think computing is becoming ubiquitous. All our appliances have microprocessors in them, and our TVs and even our books (!) are turning into computers too. The distinction is rapidly vanishing.

You're going to see a lot more appliance-like computers and computer-like appliances. That's just the way the tech is going.

[Tristam Green]

am not sure why u would want to run traditional desktop OSs like w7 or even normal ubuntu on these pads

everything has to be done with the fingers so it could lead to problems

I won't even get into the argument of why Ubuntu isn't a "traditional" desktop operating system, but I will say that Starter Edition certainly isn't. It's about as appliance as it gets for the 7 series. Perhaps you'd prefer if I said I would run Windows CE Embedded edition?

[fatality_uk]

iPad, iSmad!!!
The iPhone definitely redefined the marketplace for mobile phones. The iPad will be shiny for 6 months, then become another Newton!!
Lets not forget: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQECwm3erEs

[MCVenom]

I love my Android phone. It does everything I would ever want a phone to do. That being said, I would sooner buy an iPad than an Android tablet; Android is too unstable (at times), too prone to slowdowns, and too locked in (Android? Locked in? Explanation: I don't like Java. ;)) and overall it would have the same 'it's just not enough' problem that the iPad presents to me. I'd rather get something like the HP Slate, it runs Win7 OOB, but I'd probably dual-boot with UNR, or a MeeGo tablet. :D

[MaxIBoy]

I disagree. I think computing is becoming ubiquitous. All our appliances have microprocessors in them, and our TVs and even our books (!) are turning into computers too. The distinction is rapidly vanishing.

You're going to see a lot more appliance-like computers and computer-like appliances. That's just the way the tech is going.I don't necessarily think that's the whole story. See, I think computing devices are tending toward greater and greater consolidation; eventually, the special-purpose embedded device will be the domain of a few hard-core devotees.

For example, remember when phones, PDAs, and personal music devices were all separate devices? When you'd have a laptop, and then an entirely separate device for watching DVDs? That day is gone. We now have one, or at the most two computing devices to cover all these functions. And it will not stop there.

And the only logical way to have something that versatile is to make its UI more general-purpose. An appliance, by definition, cannot be versatile or general-purpose.

This is why I think "netbooks," "Internet tablets," "smartphones," and "gaming consoles" are all pipe dreams. Sooner or later, people will realize that the $350* PS3 they paid for was actually a crippled, outdated computer with 256 Mib of RAM. They'll realize that they could have saved all that money on the computer they also bought, if only the PS3 was running a sane, normal, desktop OS. (Perhaps few people will be able to put it in so many words.)

Eric S. Raymond wrote in his blog (http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=1759) about what he thinks the future of computing will look like, and I basically agree with him. You'll get something which looks pretty much like a current smartphone, but which is plenty powerful enough to handle even high-end gaming. You'll dock it in your house, and the dock will have an external screen, mouse, keyboard, etc. You can then remove it from the dock, take it wherever you want, and dock it in other places as well. All other computing/communications devices will be completely obsolete. (Although I'll still be building tower PCs from parts just for fun.)



*Assuming 250 Gib Playstation 3 model. Source: http://us.playstation.com/ps3/systems/250gb.html

[Mr. Picklesworth]

Well, I think Engadget's review confirms our suspicions:
http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/05/fusion-garage-joojoo-review/

They completely hammered the software. The UI enthusiast in me is screaming bloody murder, telling me to look away.

(Although, in fairness, the home screen does have labels for the different bookmarked sites; those pictures which made me think otherwise just weren't crisp enough for me to see).

[ve4cib]

The UI looks pretty from that one video. Not terribly usable, but pretty. I like the semi-transparent top panel. If it was always visible I think it would be better, but hopefully there will be some way of changing that. As they said, they hadn't had much of a chance to play around with settings, so I'm willing to keep an open mind about those kinds of details for now until a proper review is up.

Someone mentioned that Meego or ChromeOS would be nice on this. I concur, though I also think Mer should be added to that list. And maybe even a recompiled version of the Touchbook's OS (with the requisite driver/module substitutions).

I do like the fact that you can open up the case and access the physical hardware to swap stuff out. A RAM slot in a tablet? Sheer awesomeness right there in my opinion.

I'd be lying if I said I wasn't tempted by this device, provided there's a way of running local applications (with or without installing a different OS). Between JooJoo, the Touchbook, and OpenPandora we seem to have a wealth of community/start-up driven Open Source hardware projects rolling along lately. Let's hope this trend continues!

[madjr]

I won't even get into the argument of why Ubuntu isn't a "traditional" desktop operating system, but I will say that Starter Edition certainly isn't. It's about as appliance as it gets for the 7 series. Perhaps you'd prefer if I said I would run Windows CE Embedded edition?

no

am referring to something more like Android

since i seen w7 run so poorly on these things (ui and performance wise. at least on the ones i seen)

but is not a problem, everyone is free to like an X combination of hard/soft over another. There's always something that make it worth it and the shortcomings bearable

[Zanthir]

I'd *only* be interested in this thing if it could run Windows 7 Starter, or a *cough*comparable Linux distribution.

Has a USB port, I believe you can install windows from there. Either that or they have some kind of web/remote desktop app they are running. Or it is just YouTube in full screen mode playing from the JooJoo. Who knows.

http://liliputing.com/2010/06/joojoo-tablet-hack-drop-linux-and-install-windows-7.html