Cheap ARM netbook?

[themarker0]

So i'm looking into ARM and find it a little interesting. How cheap can i get one. I live in canada fyi. Any linux or unix distro will be fine on it.

[techunit]

Avoid at all cost. Most arm netbooks are scams. I say most because they aren't all but a $100 netbook kind of tips one off.

[techunit]

The touchbook is a good tablet that runs on an arm chip but it costs about $300 9inch touchscreen and 8GB of storage.

[JDShu]

Basically, nothing yet, but heres a list somebody compiled that you can look forward to. I get the vibe that they won't arrive until late in the year though.

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1377293

[themarker0]

Basically, nothing yet, but heres a list somebody compiled that you can look forward to. I get the vibe that they won't arrive until late in the year though.

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1377293

Thank you :)

[Artemis3]

See if you can get this one:

Menq Easy PC E790 (http://www.menqgroup.com/products/pro/E790.asp)

Its 80 US$.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_k_kpO647s

[chappajar]

Avoid at all cost. Most arm netbooks are scams. I say most because they aren't all but a $100 netbook kind of tips one off.

An unfair comment, I think.

There are a few ultra-cheap, massively underpowered ARM netbooks around (that I'm not interested in buying), and quite a few good quality, big name ones 'on the way' that I would happily buy today if they went retail (see the link by JDShu in post #4), hopefully for not much more than $200.

It seems like big OEMs are too nervous to release them because of worries about poor sales, and/or pressure from MS (http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/165927/asustek_puts_android_netbook_on_ice_for_now.html) (or Intel).
We might have to wait for Google's Chrome netbook before big OEMs follow suit with ARM netbooks.

Anything cheap with Cortex A8 or A9, 1+ GB memory, 9 inch screen and very, very long battery life is what I am waiting for.
IMHO the Touchbook is way overpriced for what it is.

[ibuclaw]

Have a look at this thread too http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1349626

Regards
Iain

[techunit]

An unfair comment, I think.

There are a few ultra-cheap, massively underpowered ARM netbooks around (that I'm not interested in buying), and quite a few good quality, big name ones 'on the way' that I would happily buy today if they went retail (see the link by JDShu in post #4), hopefully for not much more than $200.

It seems like big OEMs are too nervous to release them because of worries about poor sales, and/or pressure from MS (http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/165927/asustek_puts_android_netbook_on_ice_for_now.html) (or Intel).
We might have to wait for Google's Chrome netbook before big OEMs follow suit with ARM netbooks.

Anything cheap with Cortex A8 or A9, 1+ GB memory, 9 inch screen and very, very long battery life is what I am waiting for.
IMHO the Touchbook is way overpriced for what it is.

Sorry In the near future there will be some legitimate ARM based devices. I forgot to mention this, but the current ones on the market mostly from China come with windows CE that can't boot other operating systems.

[techunit]

See if you can get this one:

Menq Easy PC E790 (http://www.menqgroup.com/products/pro/E790.asp)

Its 80 US$.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_k_kpO647s

I believe that this particular netbook wouldn't be able to run ubuntu nor even xubuntu. Windows CE runs on 4 year pdas.

[jago25_98]

The other things about ARM,
is that,

even with a very fast processor, like the Notion Adam has,

you can't do any VM `emulation`. So any closed source stuff for x86 you can't run (yet). Am I mistaken with that? -is there a xen ARM port I'm not aware of...?

[ernstp]

You've missed this: http://www.genesi-usa.com/products/smartbook
The EFIKA MX, comes with Ubuntu.

[gnomeuser]

You've missed this: http://www.genesi-usa.com/products/smartbook
The EFIKA MX, comes with Ubuntu.

I bought one, it is dreadfully slow. The Cortex A8 and the current state of the software simply does not provide a sufficient Ubuntu experience.

[ernstp]

I bought one, it is dreadfully slow. The Cortex A8 and the current state of the software simply does not provide a sufficient Ubuntu experience.

Oh, how disappointing! You've got 3D accel right? What do you get with glxgears?

[kio_http]

Why not go with Intel Atom. It comes with a graphic chip-set too and the performance is really good. If Atom seems expensive then what about the Celeron netbooks?

[gnomeuser]

Oh, how disappointing! You've got 3D accel right? What do you get with glxgears?

You don't have 3D acceleration on any of the ARM boards, no drivers, not even a proprietary fallback as with nvidia or ati.

This really is the biggest problem for ARM right now, every modern environment requires 3D support and seemingly this large task has not yet been undertaken by anyone.

[gnomeuser]

Why not go with Intel Atom. It comes with a graphic chip-set too and the performance is really good. If Atom seems expensive then what about the Celeron netbooks?

At the same power consumption a Cortex A9 or A15 design will perform better than the Atom. The Atom is also a pretty primitive design, you'd likely get a better experience in the x86 space with AMDs Neo chip or likely their Bobcat design as well.

[kio_http]

At the same power consumption a Cortex A9 or A15 design will perform better than the Atom. The Atom is also a pretty primitive design, you'd likely get a better experience in the x86 space with AMDs Neo chip or likely their Bobcat design as well.

Not a fair comparison in my opinion, both Intel Atom and AMD Neo have a range of CPU models. Intel Atom's entry lower end CPU's differ from the higher end ones. By benchmarks, the two perform very closely however AMD's graphic capabilities are a bit better than Intel's, unless the Intel operates with Nvidia ION.

[JDShu]

Unfortunately ARM netbooks are a dead business. Just get an Intel Atom Netbook if thats what you need.

[Paqman]

Unfortunately ARM netbooks are a dead business. Just get an Intel Atom Netbook if thats what you need.

Inclined to agree. Until Microsoft releases a decent ARM port of Windows the business case for an ARM netbook isn't strong enough for any of the big OEMs to take it seriously.

[ernstp]

Why not go with Intel Atom. It comes with a graphic chip-set too and the performance is really good. If Atom seems expensive then what about the Celeron netbooks?

Everything with Atom has a fan and is hence much bigger, the ARM netbooks doesn't have a fan AFAIK. But if Intel can make their Atoms even lighter, I'm all in!

[ernstp]

You don't have 3D acceleration on any of the ARM boards, no drivers, not even a proprietary fallback as with nvidia or ati.

This really is the biggest problem for ARM right now, every modern environment requires 3D support and seemingly this large task has not yet been undertaken by anyone.

I'm pretty sure that there's a proprietary 3D driver for the Efika, check here:
http://packages.efikamx.info/dists/maverick/main/binary-armel/Packages
http://blog.efikamx.info/

[kio_http]

Everything with Atom has a fan and is hence much bigger, the ARM netbooks doesn't have a fan AFAIK. But if Intel can make their Atoms even lighter, I'm all in!

Er some Dell Mini's have no fan and disabling the fan on some machines allows the system to run perfectly (without over-clocking).

[TechZilla]

I would be fine even running an openbox session, with nautilus and tint2 panel. I bet you could run that with 128M of ram. (would be best with 256 though) I'm even willing to go more bare-bones then that!

would really like an ARM based netbook that can actually boot a GNU/Linux distro. And has potential for some sort of installation.

Most of the new android arm based netbook devices, seem to have little to no Linux support. Well they might have some support, but the information is non-existent. Its is very hard to find what board/proc is in which product.

The obvious compatible solution is the EXTREMELY overpriced TouchBook. (399$ !!!!) And i don't need or want touch, I HATE TOUCH!, if i enjoyed I would just buy a tablet.

what I am looking for (most likely what we all are talking about) is something cheep and capable (specs wise), like the augen genbook 108

but can you get hardware supported and actually boot Linux, that is the question. Android is not Linux, any way you look at it. Most importantly it is not meant to be GNU/Linux. It is for OEMs to provide an OS for their products. If it ever gets any distributions, then great... (still sucks for not being GNU)


just ranting, but wanted to mention about my arm based netbook search.

[Copper Bezel]

Why is it still a search? Did you see the Ubuntu keynote? Toshiba AC100 (http://www.trustedreviews.com/Toshiba-AC100_Laptop_review) is a nice Tegra 2 ARM SOC unit with Ubuntu support. I'd poke around for other options, but they certainly exist.

Edit: Augen wouldn't run Ubuntu (well) even without driver issues. Touchbook is a joke.

[ernstp]

Why is it still a search? Did you see the Ubuntu keynote? Toshiba AC100 (http://www.trustedreviews.com/Toshiba-AC100_Laptop_review) is a nice Tegra 2 ARM SOC unit with Ubuntu support. I'd poke around for other options, but they certainly exist.

Hmm, calling it supported is a bit of a lie. :-) There's a small community effort to run Ubuntu on it. It depends on a binary blob from Nvidia that Nvidia is no longer updating, so they can't update the Xserver.

[themarker0]

A little surprised this still exists to be honest :p Personally the Toshibia doesn't look very promising, I still await for the perfect one :P

[jrusso2]

Basically, nothing yet, but heres a list somebody compiled that you can look forward to. I get the vibe that they won't arrive until late in the year though.

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1377293

Is it a year yet?

[NormanFLinux]

Windows CE would seem like the perfect netbook OS - but it offers no wireless support, there is no real software for it and its more like a toy version of Windows than the real thing. Even Microsoft's joke Windows 7 Starter at least offers some customizability.

Until Microsoft develops a full-fledged netbook/tablet OS, don't see the low end netbook market going anywhere. Its dead.

[PhillyPhil]

Until Microsoft develops a full-fledged netbook/tablet OS, don't see the low end netbook market going anywhere. Its dead.

Android, Linux, Windows 8...

[Paqman]

Android, Linux, Windows 8...

You kind of just proved his point.

[PhillyPhil]

You kind of just proved his point.

I didn't bother filling in the gaps:

MS've already developed a "fully fledged netbook OS", and there were perfectly good alternatives available already: Android and Linux.

Intended more to be informative than argumentative ;)

[TechZilla]

@ernstp, Toshiba AC100 is a non-solution.
for multiple reasons.

1. I don't believe it is released in the US.

2. It is far from affordable, approx 500$! for that price I would have gone with the already expensive touchbook. At least the touchbook is supposed to be well supported.

3. Bin. blobs are not a solution, they are a workaround. Especially if they are not updated to work with recent releases.I can deal with blob firmware, Esp. if it is arch agnostic.

I would be willing to import from non-US markets, if it was inexpensive with good Linux support.
The search continues, for an arm based netbook. inexpensive w/ solid Linux support.

[jago25_98]

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?LH_BIN=1&_nkw=netbook%20android&_dmpt=US_Tablets&_fln=1&_ssov=1&_trksid=p3286.c0.m282&_mPrRngCbx=1&_udlo=&_udhi=80

^
I think it's possible to run Ubuntu netbook remix on some of the sub $100 netbooks out there. But I can't remember which!

I guess not the VIA8650 ones? -> http://www.slatedroid.com/topic/21211-7-wm8650-netbook-linux-port/

If this is true, this is fantasic news - linux on $60 hardware!

[freechelmi]

The search continues, for an arm based netbook. inexpensive w/ solid Linux support.

You should check this post

http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=11092270&postcount=7

Ubuntu support ( still with some blobs) keeps getting better

It's 250$ in Europe

[del_diablo]

How about buying a Raspberry Pi, and glying to together with a battery and a decent laptop case?

[TenPlus1]

How about a computer with a 700mhz arm processor for $25:

http://topnews.net.nz/content/218185-tiny-15-raspberry-pi-computer-shows-potential-processing-power

[pibach]

I have an AC100, bought from ebay, almost new for 110 Euro. I am running Lubuntu Oneiric on it, runs fine. Fast and stable. Some things are still to be fixed (sound via speakers and suspend). But otherwise this is the closest device to be a truly mobile companion.

[angry_johnnie]

I just got one, out of sheer curiosity. :p It`s a funky architecture with an exotic OS... how could I resist?

It cost me around 100 us dlls. Comes with windows CE 6.0. It`s got 128 mb of ram and 2gb hd.

Yes, it`s quite slow, but I can`t complain, really. I knew exactly what I was getting into when I bought it. :)

I got it for web browsing, mainly. I`d rather turn on this little 9 volt toy than my 750 watt desktop pc. It`s no replacement, of course, but it`s a good alternative for my simple browsing habits.

For any serious work, I still have my desktop.

[mips]

I just got one, out of sheer curiosity. :p It`s a funky architecture with an exotic OS... how could I resist?

It cost me around 100 us dlls. Comes with windows CE 6.0. It`s got 128 mb of ram and 2gb hd.

Yes, it`s quite slow, but I can`t complain, really. I knew exactly what I was getting into when I bought it. :)

I got it for web browsing, mainly. I`d rather turn on this little 9 volt toy than my 750 watt desktop pc. It`s no replacement, of course, but it`s a good alternative for my simple browsing habits.

For any serious work, I still have my desktop.

Wonder how a minimal Debian ARM install with Openbox will run on it?

I think you should try :biggrin:

[angry_johnnie]

Wonder how a minimal Debian ARM install with Openbox will run on it?

I think you should try :biggrin:

yeah i`ve been trying to tinker with it, but it`s not quite straight forward, as there`s no bios and no real hd, just a flash drive.

apparently it can, in theory, be flashed, and i`ve been trying to figure that out.

hopefully, if i`m stubborn enough, and lucky enough, i`ll crack the little devil :p

[TechZilla]

You should check this post

http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=11092270&postcount=7

Ubuntu support ( still with some blobs) keeps getting better

It's 250$ in Europe

Obviously your responding to my post, so I assume you know what it said. I will reiterate again, the Toshiba ac100 is not a valid option.

BTW...
when you see 250$ in Europe, They are not referring to US Dollars.
Considering this net book was designed for the UK, they mean British pounds!
(FYI that would be approx 400$, and regardless I believe that is an inaccuracy.)

I don't feel like going over the multiple reasons again.
If you need more reasons why "the search continues" reread both my previous posts.

[TechZilla]

@angry_johnnie, that's exactly what I was talking about! Some cheepy with an arm processor, that can boot Debian. And the one guy posted the eBay link, shows android netbooks. But Linux support, that is what we need to see.

[TechZilla]

I'm getting so sick of my current netbook, I really want the long-life of an ARM based SoC. All those stupid hardware magazines promised me I'd have one by now, THEY PROMISED ME!!!

[r+9]

I'm reading this post on my Efika MX by Genesi.

it's $199, has lots of nice features.

Performance is pretty good if you're not treating it like a PC.

What I mean is for focused tasks (browsing one page at a time) it works well.
Trying to read 2+ tabs at the same time, (and other multi-tasking gymnastics) it will slow down painfully. I'm not a hardware expert but I believe it's a combination of the low memory and the software's interaction.

Another thing, Genesi provided a "modified" ubuntu 10.04 that comes with some default software. You may add other things, I've added a lot of my prefered programs.
However, take VLC it will play audio but video locks up with some sort of sync issue. Meanwhile the default movie-player works just fine. I'm not sure if the movie-player was tweaked to "work" or if there is a major difference in how they manage video.

over all I'm happy with the little guy, I wanted something that would let me tool-around on the computer even when I was away from home or just away from my desk.

[drawkcab]

I'm reading this post on my Efika MX by Genesi.

it's $199, has lots of nice features.

Performance is pretty good if you're not treating it like a PC.

What I mean is for focused tasks (browsing one page at a time) it works well.
Trying to read 2+ tabs at the same time, (and other multi-tasking gymnastics) it will slow down painfully. I'm not a hardware expert but I believe it's a combination of the low memory and the software's interaction.

Another thing, Genesi provided a "modified" ubuntu 10.04 that comes with some default software. You may add other things, I've added a lot of my prefered programs.
However, take VLC it will play audio but video locks up with some sort of sync issue. Meanwhile the default movie-player works just fine. I'm not sure if the movie-player was tweaked to "work" or if there is a major difference in how they manage video.

over all I'm happy with the little guy, I wanted something that would let me tool-around on the computer even when I was away from home or just away from my desk.

Yeah, but think of it this way--I have my original Atom n270 eeepc from 3 years ago that will easily run xfce + compiz. I paid $160.

[r+9]

Nice deal on the atom book.

One other thing I neglected to mention is the Efika is 100% silent, there isn't at all. I'm not sure what sort of battery performance you get on the Atom.

I've noticed that "moderate" use floats about 4-5W on a 30Wh battery. it gets around 5.5 hours of constant use.

Playing a video over the wireless gets up to 5.5W as a "heavier" load.