French plan would open iTunes to other devices

[mstlyevil]

Here is some interesting news. The French are thinking of passing laws to force Apple to open iTunes to other devices. What are your opinions on this proposed move by the French?

French plan would open iTunes to other devices (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060313/wr_nm/media_france_copyrights_dc)

[rfruth]

Wow mstlyevil you ask some tough questions, in an ideal world there would be no DRM but iTunes AAR format may be a good comprise ..[-(

[mstlyevil]

Wow mstlyevil you ask some tough questions, in an ideal world there would be no DRM but iTunes AAR format may be a good comprise ..[-(

This is a tough world with no easy answers.:-k

[rfruth]

There are no easy answers ... yep this last weekend a XP friend of mine copied a plain old audio CD via WMP, granted he knew it was (is) intellectual property but ...

[nalmeth]

This is a tough world with no easy answers.:-k
I second that

[GreyFox503]

The article headline misled me. I thought the French were planning to force Apple to make iTunes compatible with other companies' music players. What they are actually proposing is this:


Under a draft law expected to be voted in parliament on Thursday, consumers would be able to legally use software that converts digital content into any format.
Now that's interesting. Making it legal to to use any software that converts digital content into another format.

At first, I thought that sounds really great. But isn't it just a band-aid on the bigger problem of DRM? This solution legimitizes DRM by authorizing a workaround for it, instead of refuting it altogether. Would we really be OK in a world where everything we buy is DRM'ed... but it's totally legal to crack it!? No, that doesn't sound good to me.

They should address the real problem. If they want to make iTunes usable by other players, they should force Apple to offer their downloads in a free format, not legalize methods to liberate their DRM'ed format.

[Bandit]

IMHO, iTunes is owned by Apple. No one has the right to force them to do anything they dont want with there own software. But I good ban on apple products might persuade them to a comprimise if they want sells in France :D

[DigitalDuality]

Frankly, i find what they're doing to be anti-competitve. So i'm all for the french plan.

If i pay for a license for a song or an album, how dare you tell me what i can and cannot use it on.

[Bandit]

Frankly, i find what they're doing to be anti-competitve. So i'm all for the french plan.

If i pay for a license for a song or an album, how dare you tell me what i can and cannot use it on.
I think they should be persuaded to remove there crapy DRM stuff.
Trade embargo anyone :)

[Adrenal]

They should not be forced to open up their software, no one should.
A fascist government is still a fascist government even if you agree with what they're being fascist about

[Leo_01]

Yeah...
Itunes DRM thingy is stupid but it belongs to apple...
I am sure the goverment can SUE apple but i don't think they are allow to make such a bias law...

[bugmenot]

I am sure the goverment can SUE apple but i don't think they are allow to make such a bias law...
Huh? A democratically elected parliament should not be allowed to pass a law that makes it legal to convert digital content into an other format?
Why should that be the case?


A fascist government is still a fascist government even if you agree with what they're being fascist about
WTF???????:-k

[gmclachl]

Frankly, i find what they're doing to be anti-competitve. So i'm all for the french plan.

I don't think it can be called that. iTunes is just one of a number of available services. AFAIK you are not locked into using it, and are free to buy your music elsewhere. Apple are not forcing you to only downoad music from iTunes.



If i pay for a license for a song or an album, how dare you tell me what i can and cannot use it on.

Again you cannot just target Apple, I think 90% of the music download services are like this. I think it's also fair to say a lot of the DRM stuff is pushed onto Apple by the record labels. I am afraid it's their ball and if you don't play by the labels rules they take it away. Whats more if I download a song from iTunes I can burn it onto CD and put it on whatever I want.

I am certainly not in favour of DRM content, in fact the last time I bought anything from iTunes must have been...well a long time ago. Just trying to add some balance.

George

[Stormy Eyes]

Here is some interesting news. The French are thinking of passing laws to force Apple to open iTunes to other devices. What are your opinions on this proposed move by the French?

I think Apple should tell the French to go bugger themselves. There's nothing stopping people from buying music from iTunes, stripping the DRM and converting to MP3, and then putting the MP3s on the device of their choice, is there? If there isn't, then the French are just being meddlesome. Screw 'em.

[midwinter]

I think Apple should tell the French to go bugger themselves. There's nothing stopping people from buying music from iTunes, stripping the DRM and converting to MP3, and then putting the MP3s on the device of their choice, is there? If there isn't, then the French are just being meddlesome. Screw 'em.

From my understanding of the article, it is currently illegal to strip the DRM to convert to another format. That is what they may change and make legal.

Well, at least that's what I got from the article... it doesn't seem particular to apple or anything (not that you would guess from the first post).

[frodon]

Indeed, the question is just to let a user who downloaded a song on itunes convert it to the format of his choice to listen it on another player if he wish and all that in a legal context.
Because for the moment nobody is supposed to break protection features, if you do such a thing you do it in a illegal context for the moment.
So apple will not be forced to anything, the goal is just to let the itunes users convert their songs in a legal context.

[ComplexNumber]

I think it's also fair to say a lot of the DRM stuff is pushed onto Apple by the record labels this is true.

if i buy a cd or pay to download a song, it is THE CONSUMER'S RIGHT to be able to transfer it to be played on another device. when i pay for a song, i am paying to hear that song whenever i choose. what medium i choose to play it on is my choice as a consumer...whether its an iPod or my PC.

[DigitalDuality]

They should not be forced to open up their software, no one should.
A fascist government is still a fascist government even if you agree with what they're being fascist about

Tell me a fascist government that has NOT been propped up by corporations..and maybe you'll understand why people want to use the government to keep corporations in check. On copyright issues.. on down to work conditions.

[ComplexNumber]

Tell me a fascist government that has NOT been propped up by corporations..and maybe you'll understand why people want to use the government to keep corporations in check. On copyright issues.. on down to work conditions. or more precisely, one would be hard pressed to mention ANY government that isn't propped up by the corporations.

[timas]

The record labels enforce any digital distributor of the content, be it audio, video or any other format to put some type of rights management on this.. They verify the rights before the distributor can start distributing it.

Now, keep in mind, I'm in no way trying to say I'm for DRM here.. but its a bit double. DRM sucks because it limits our use as a consumer, DRM rocks because it ensures the artist(s) at least get -some- revenue from the labels, per sold track.

The DRM is meant as a way to ensure I wont download a song and then just send it to my buddies. They have to buy that song for themselves. At this, you might say "But I can copy my CD all I want!" well, sure, they are still trying to come up with the uncrackable copy security simply to ensure the money they make from it.. and the wee small minor percentage the artist gets.

I agree with what France is doing, but I don't agree with the statement that DRM sucks for what it is and that its totally against our cosumer rights. I will agree that most of the implementations are at the least poorly done, again under the hamer of the record labels. A good DRM license allows everything except redistributing it to another computer.. the more common licenses you'll find today are unlimited playing, limited burning/syncing. I disagree with the limit on burning and syncing.. I want to be able to burn and sync a track to my device(s) as much as I'd like to..

Those are my two cents (and yes, for those who are curious, I used to work for a distributor of digital content)

[ComplexNumber]

DRM rocks because it ensures the artist(s) at least get -some- revenue from the labels, per sold track. thats an excuse. the artists themselves are totally against DRM of any kind because it hurts them.



As a musician I find the notion of using DRM technology abhorrent -- not only because of the risk that my works could be locked up indefinitely by technological means, despite my signing a non-exclusive distribution contract. Under anti-circumvention laws such as the DMCA and the forthcoming EUCD, it could well prove impossible for me to share my own work with my friends, or to distribute DRM-controlled content to another publisher.

But aside from the legal and practical aspects, I believe DRM to be against the spirit of music-making. Music is made for enjoyment -- and it is very difficult to create music without an atmosphere of freedom. Musicians just want to be free to create, without being concerned over having their music -- or the tools they use to make music - tied down or controlled by devices which may well have detrimental effects on audio quality. Perhaps the reason Apple has been so notoriously silent on the topic of DRM is that the Mac OS dominates the creative market. To implement DRM on a Mac platform would risk alienating their primary customers in the pro audio sector. http://news.dmusic.com/article/6867

[mstlyevil]

So far I think people are missing the other half of this Article. Here is a quote from the article.


Under the latest version of the proposed law, people who download material illegally would be subject to a fine of 38 euros and those sharing illegally downloaded material with others would be subject to a fine of 150 euros.

People who make and sell software for illegal file-sharing and content downloading would remain subject to a maximum fine of 300,000 euros and prison sentences of up to three years.

Police agents can monitor music exchange Web sites and trace back the email address of beneficiaries by asking the Internet service provider for it through a court order.

The proposed law would also secure private copies of legally downloaded material, but the number of private copies could be limited and have yet to be determined

While the French Government wants to make it possible to play iTunes music on any player you want, they are also cracking down on illegal file sharing at the same time with new fines and surveillence of the web. Not only are they telling Apple what to do with their proprietary software and players but they will be using police state tactics to catch illegal file sharing. How is this any better than the DRM the music industry is imposing on us? You litterally will be trading one wrong for another one.

Consumers can stop DRM simply by refusing to buy music that it is attached to. Do we really need Government to step in and at the same erode our rights and liberties all in the name of consumer protection?

[frodon]

So far I think people are missing the other half of this Article. Here is a quote from the article.



While the French Government wants to make it possible to play iTunes music on any player you want, they are also cracking down on illegal file sharing at the same time with new fines and surveillence of the web. Not only are they telling Apple what to do with their proprietary software and players but they will be using police state tactics to catch illegal file sharing. How is this any better than the DRM the music industry is imposing on us? You litterally will be trading one wrong for another one.

Consumers can stop DRM simply by refusing to buy music that it is attached to. Do we really need Government to step in and at the same erode our rights and liberties all in the name of consumer protection?Be careful, this is under hard discussion for the moment and no decision has been taken, what is said in the article is the state the law proposal and this law proposal change every 3 days !! So we can't have any ideas for the moment of what the new law will be but for sure everybody in france keep an eye on it.

[mstlyevil]

Be careful, this is under hard discussion for the moment and no decision has been taken, what is said in the article is the state the law proposal and this law proposal change every 3 days !! So we couldn't have any ideas for the moment of what the new law will be but for sure everybidy in france keep an eye on it.

True, this is still in the drafting stage. It worries me that they include police state type tactics in the proposed draft in the first place. You are right, it can always change before it becomes law.

[ComplexNumber]

DRM is a very frightening concept. in years to come, it won't just be with music and other media. it will be with anything.
the new microsoft licence is a form of DRM.



While the French Government wants to make it possible to play iTunes music on any player you want, they are also cracking down on illegal file sharing at the same time with new fines and surveillence of the web.
i think you are quite correct when you say:

You litterally will be trading one wrong for another one.

its almost like trying to soften the blow of DRM.

[frodon]

True, this is still in the drafting stage. It worries me that they include police state type tactics in the proposed draft in the first place. You are right, it can always change before it becomes law.However i agree with you, at this step the new law doesn't sound good and it worries me too.

[majikstreet]

gooo frenchies!