Hostility on Ubuntu Forum

[thenailedone]

Hello fellow Forumites,

I have now on several different sites read about Linux users that have decided to drop Ubuntu in favor of some other distro based on the fact that according to them any criticism in regards the new upcoming Lucid Lynx was met with hostility and they were basically told if they don't like it they can leave...

Now, I have been a member of the forums (on and off) for the last 2 and a half years and have not encountered something like that... so my question too you the active members of this community, is this the current prevailing attitude of the members here, to say take it or leave it, or where these members just unfortunate to have ran into some clever trolls, or are they just over sensitive?


Neil

[dmizer]

Some people see this as a negative, but the reality is that one of the best things about Linux is choice. If you do not like certain things about Ubuntu it is your choice to move to another distro. This is NOT a bad thing.

That is the beauty of freedom.

[Sef]

I have now on several different sites read about Linux users that have decided to drop Ubuntu in favor of some other distro based on the fact that according to them any criticism in regards the new upcoming Lucid Lynx was met with hostility and they were basically told if they don't like it they can leave...

If you do find that, please click on the report abuse button in the lower left hand corner, and the situation will be dealt with.

[Directive 4]

i'd say these forums are like any failed communism,

meant to be about community but ends up being subject to the wim's of a select few.

[thenailedone]

Some people see this as a negative, but the reality is that one of the best things about Linux is choice. If you do not like certain things about Ubuntu it is your choice to move to another distro. This is NOT a bad thing.

That is the beauty of freedom.

I agree that in the end a user can decide to choose another distro, but if it becomes a case of like it or lump it then the "freedom" seems a little less to me... one of the reasons I settled on Ubuntu as opposed to several other distros (and in the last month I have literally gone through 9 odd distros) was the community, sense of belonging, and yes, we can't all have our way and I agree there will be those that just whine the whole yet day I believe we should still treat our community members with respect and where possible try and keep them as Ubuntu users rather than telling to get knotted... (not that I am saying this happens, but if this happens)

[Fenris_rising]

You cannot please all of the people all of the time. People seem to forget this and also forget that they do have choices. If the latest and greatest doesn't work and cannot be made to work on your setup this is a shame but it still leaves you with a vast quantity of GNU/Linux flavours to choose from that may fulfill your every whim.

I couldn't use 9.04 so I stayed with 8.10 which did everything I needed. Eventually I tried 9.10 and it works perfect for me as has quite a few other flavours I play with as live USB OS's. At the end of the day if you can do everything you need and you still have your freedom why change just for the sake of it only to wail and gnash your teeth because, unfortunately, it doesn't work this time.

It's not as if people aren't aware that there may be possible issues with a particular version whether an LTS or not but when it's a work in progress?? C'mon people get a grip it could be worse........you could still only have windows =D

regards

Fenris (now hiding in a bunker)

[madnessjack]

I agree with @Fenris_rising (http://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=560195)

You can't please everyone all the time :P

[swoll1980]

What a strange reason to stop using a distro. Almost sounds imaginary.

[Dragonbite]

Hello fellow Forumites,

I have now on several different sites read about Linux users that have decided to drop Ubuntu in favor of some other distro based on the fact that according to them any criticism in regards the new upcoming Lucid Lynx was met with hostility and they were basically told if they don't like it they can leave...

Gotta consider, though, how is it they voiced their "criticism"?

Not to mention, if they are going to leave and complain about it after some negative comments then if it weren't this it would be something else.

I know, because I am very fickle and will change my distro of focus for very stupid, minute reasons.

Maybe there is a growing frustration by the community from seeing the same types of posts over and over again, plus getting any flack from other distributions all the while trying to make Windows users understand. But this is also par and part of the course.

For a lot of us, though, I think these forums are a means for blowing off steam and voicing whatever is bothering us. Most of the time when done, then we drop it.

That's what I think.

[Nevon]

I think nearly everyone in this thread is missing the point. The point is that the person critizising 10.04 was met with hostility, which in turn caused them to leave.

I know for a fact that this is not just the case with some trolling Windows fanboys who write a bunch of crap as flamebait. I have seen several developers and long-time Ubuntu users get treated quite unfairly (not necessarily in a hostile manner, though) when they voiced their opinions regarding this upcoming release, and that has caused some of them to leave the Ubuntu community - which is a damn shame, if you ask me.

This thread has nothing to do with the changes being made to Ubuntu. It has to do with the community (and the official representatives) and their attitude towards people who voice concerns or raise criticism. I myself had a post I made regarding some of the changes deleted by a moderator of this forum, with the rationale that my criticism was insulting (or something of that nature, I can't quite remember exactly). No one else I showed the post to afterwards seemed to think it was insulting at all. When I inquired about it, I receieved no answer whatsoever.

The problem isn't just centered around these forums though. It's quite apparent in other places centered around this community as well, for example Launchpad.

[swoll1980]

I think nearly everyone in this thread is missing the point. The point is that the person critizising 10.04 was met with hostility, which in turn caused them to leave.

I know for a fact that this is not just the case with some trolling Windows fanboys who write a bunch of crap as flamebait. I have seen several developers and long-time Ubuntu users get treated quite unfairly (not necessarily in a hostile manner, though) when they voiced their opinions regarding this upcoming release, and that has caused some of them to leave the Ubuntu community - which is a damn shame, if you ask me.

This thread has nothing to do with the changes being made to Ubuntu. It has to do with the community (and the official representatives) and their attitude towards people who voice concerns or raise criticism. I myself had a post I made regarding some of the changes deleted by a moderator of this forum, with the rationale that my criticism was insulting (or something of that nature, I can't quite remember exactly). No one else I showed the post to afterwards seemed to think it was insulting at all. When I inquired about it, I received no answer whatsoever.

The problem isn't just centered around these forums though. It's quite apparent in other places centered around this community as well, for example Launchpad.

Some people act like *****. There is no way to stop it, and isn't a reflection of the community at large. How would you propose to stop this behavior? There are a million people on this forum. They will never be governable by a hand full of mods. People have to accept this. To make a decision to stop using a tool that was working great for you because a few out of a million were hostile to your criticism is unintelligent to say the least.

[purgatori]

I've been a member here for a long time, although under different usernames, and I have seen it go from friendly to increasingly poisonous in that time. The 'take it or leave it' thing is not necessarily, imo, a manifestation of increasing hostility, unless it is framed as a personal attack. There are, however, plenty of instances of personal attacks on this forum that follow in the wake about people expressing their personal opinions or preferences on the most trivial of subjects.

[_h_]

http://www.fewt.com/2010/03/bye-ubuntu-it-could-have-been-fun-but.html

Some of those comments are just pure class acts, and seems like they are just talking nonsense out of their *** without actually analyizing anything.

[Dragonbite]

Some people act like *****. There is no way to stop it, and isn't a reflection of the community at large.

Or is it? What is the community if it is not everybody?

Just because some people are being nasty doesn't mean it's "not me". We are individuals in this community but the community includes ******** and saints all the same.


How would you propose to stop this behavior? There are a million people on this forum. They will never be governable by a hand full of mods. People have to accept this. To make a decision to stop using a tool that was working great for you because a few out of a million were hostile to your criticism is unintelligent to say the least.

The police cannot be everywhere. How many times is a criminal caught because a neighbor calls in suspicious behavior in the house? How many suspicious characters leave the area when approached by a nosy neighbor or neighborhood watch patrol? How many police persons are corrupt compared to all of the police in the department?

Power to the people. Power from the people. We are the people.

Be the kind of person you want to run across in these forums, let other people reading these posts see that there are some people who are considerate and concerned (and are not ********). Call out the ones trolling and talking smack!

At the same time, resist posting a nasty reply when you don't agree with the person. Post intelligently, but not angrily. It's a discourse, not a shouting match.

Respect each other.

[madnessjack]

https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/light-themes/+bug/532633/comments/183

Wow, this guy's mature.

This isn't a soap. Canonical are a real grown-up business. People need to stop having hissy fits because their opinions aren't as loud as they'd want them to be.

Folks need to lighten up- big time

[swoll1980]

I don't think a lot of people care if some random retards act in an improper manner. What people do care about is when real, well thought out and properly presented criticism falls on deaf ears even when delivered through proper channels (such as the Launchpad bug tracker, for example).

Just two days ago I read two blog posts by developers who had decided to abandon Ubuntu for some other distros because of exactly this. I'm afraid I could only find the link for one of them, but here you go: http://www.fewt.com/2010/03/bye-ubuntu-it-could-have-been-fun-but.html
If you're truly interested, I also suggest you read through the comments on the bug report linked to in that article. There are some real gems in there by our beloved SABDFL.

I understand your point, but it's off topic. The op wasn't referring to the developers, and I haven't heard the developers say anything hostile. Canonical is a business. They have a real stake in what they do, or don't do. It's not a game.

[doas777]

I know that there has been some hostility toward cannonical over the button moving thing, and the response that it will not be changed. some of the advocates for changing it back have gotten rather heated about it, and on several occasions have been told ultimately that they will have to live with it. there are some folks on another forum (that has some cross membership here) that are especially displeased about it.

the anger seems to be more that they can't bully cannonical into doing what they want.
i don't hold anything against fewt (he helped me out once), but in this case i don't think he approached the problem responsibly, and parroting it all over the internet (i've seen that convo linked on several forums) really didn't help my perception of his complaint.

[Dragonbite]

I know that there has been some hostility toward cannonical over the button moving thing, and the response that it will not be changed. some of the advocates for changing it back have gotten rather heated about it, and on several occasions have been told ultimately that they will have to live with it. there are some folks on another forum (that has some cross membership here) that are especially displeased about it.

the anger seems to be more that they can't bully cannonical into doing what they want.
i don't hold anything against fewt (he helped me out once), but i don't think he approached the problem responsibly, and parroting it on linsux really didn't help my perception of his complaint.

Some people feel "entitled" because it's open source.

[Nevon]

https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/light-themes/+bug/532633/comments/183

Wow, this guy's mature.

This isn't a soap. Canonical are a real grown-up business. People need to stop having hissy fits because their opinions aren't as loud as they'd want them to be.

Folks need to lighten up- big time

To be fair, you need to read the entire conversation - not just the last post. And don't just read the posts by this particular person. He is just one example, and as you can see in the thread, many agree with the views expressed by him.

What you will not find in the thread is someone taking the very specific criticism provided and saying: "We don't agree, and here's why..." What is being said is basically just nothing or "too bad. This is what we're doing".


I understand your point, but it's off topic. The op wasn't referring to the developers[...]
Perhaps not. You're right that it may be slightly off topic. It's just that this is a change in attitude that I feel is in tune with the change the OP seems to perceive.

[swoll1980]

Or is it? What is the community if it is not everybody?

Just because some people are being nasty doesn't mean it's "not me". We are individuals in this community but the community includes ******** and saints all the same.



The police cannot be everywhere. How many times is a criminal caught because a neighbor calls in suspicious behavior in the house? How many suspicious characters leave the area when approached by a nosy neighbor or neighborhood watch patrol? How many police persons are corrupt compared to all of the police in the department?

Power to the people. Power from the people. We are the people.

Be the kind of person you want to run across in these forums, let other people reading these posts see that there are some people who are considerate and concerned (and are not ********). Call out the ones trolling and talking smack!

At the same time, resist posting a nasty reply when you don't agree with the person. Post intelligently, but not angrily. It's a discourse, not a shouting match.

Respect each other.
The expression "shoveling crap against the tide" comes to mind. No matter how many people the police arrest there is still crime, and people in jail can't log in under a different user namer.

[lykwydchykyn]

Business as usual IMO.

Seems like every so often someone doesn't like a design or development decision, or has a brilliant idea on how to "fix" Linux; they put together an argument, gather a constituency, and make a big stir in the blogosphere/forums/mailing lists trying to get their way.

When they get pushback from the people actually doing the work, or people with actual data on their side, they fly off the handle and make a dramatic show of kicking the dust off their feet and moving on.

I've seen this more times than I can count. Yet FOSS moves on.

[Dragonbite]

The expression "shoveling crap against the tide" comes to mind. No matter how many people the police arrest there is still crime, and people in jail can't log in under a different user namer.

If we don't "fix" it, who will?

[_h_]

and as you can see in the thread, many agree with the views expressed by him.

This is the bandwagon, and it's sadly human nature nowadays to immedietly get on board without actually knowing the full story behind something.

[Regenweald]

Would you stop using a hammer drill you bought on amazon because some other owner was mean to you ? No. lets put all that stupid in a box and mail it to a galaxy far far away.

@nevon. Some of your recent posts concerning the new theme were neither useful, constructive nor productive. You were basically slinging mud at productive attempts to change Ubuntu's look. Are those an example of the "opinions" that should be met with open arms by the forum ? Should that tantrum have been pondered upon by the design team ?

[swoll1980]

If we don't "fix" it, who will?

The only way it could ever be truly fixed is if the ***** stop acting like *****, or if people stop letting things they read on the Internet hurt their feeling. The later is the only one we can control ourselves.

[dmizer]

The only way it could ever be truly fixed is if the ***** stop acting like *****, or if people stop letting things they read on the Internet hurt their feeling. The later is the only one we can control ourselves.

My experience is that neither of these options are realistic.

[Dragonbite]

The only way it could ever be truly fixed is if the ***** stop acting like *****, or if people stop letting things they read on the Internet hurt their feeling. The later is the only one we can control ourselves.

But to them YOU are being the ****, so who's right? Answer: neither.

[kostkon]

Business as usual IMO.

Seems like every so often someone doesn't like a design or development decision, or has a brilliant idea on how to "fix" Linux; they put together an argument, gather a constituency, and make a big stir in the blogosphere/forums/mailing lists trying to get their way.

When they get pushback from the people actually doing the work, or people with actual data on their side, they fly off the handle and make a dramatic show of kicking the dust off their feet and moving on.

I've seen this more times than I can count. Yet FOSS moves on.
Well said...

[swoll1980]

My experience is that neither of these options are realistic.

There is no realistic solution. That is why people can't throw a broad generalization at us, and say this is the way they are. It's the Linux forum equivalent of racism. You can't lump a huge group of people together, and slap a label on them, based on the minority of the groups behaver.

[thenailedone]

I think nearly everyone in this thread is missing the point. The point is that the person critizising 10.04 was met with hostility, which in turn caused them to leave.

Thanks Nevon for getting the thread back on Topic :KS

I am at least happy to see that different opinions have been raised thus far by community members without any personal attacks so thanks all for this :)

On the members that finally stop using and/or supporting Ubuntu because of the "perceived" hostility I am pretty sure it isn't the first but more likely than not the last straw for them...

For those that has experienced this on the forum it sucks, and for those that won't stand for it I salute you... it is you that will make/or keep this community great :D

[dmizer]

Okay folks, let's keep it on topic. The UI design change and subsequent fallout really has no relevance to hostility (real, perceived, or otherwise) that members feel in these forums.

[ZarathustraDK]

A few opinions:

1. "(users < code-proficient people < actual developers) < Logic" in terms of opinion-value. Opinion is useful, but if the reasoning behind is fraught with errors and emotional widdle-waddle then it is less useful; even worse, one is more likely to get pissed when someone violates ones argument stemming from ones emotions. Anti-Nike : Just don't do it.

2. It's silly to go overboard on something like button-placement which can be changed so easily if it doesn't fit with ones tastes.

3. People should always consider that different = evolution. Perhaps the button-placement will turn out to be awesome and fall in a lot of peoples tastes who have yet to experience Linux; if not, then we've got that new experience, which is not a minus. Trying out new stuff is the only way Linux will ever go anywhere, and this is the first time a major revamp of the theme has been done, embrace it in all its succeses and failures. "Too many cooks..." and so on.

[doas777]

on the topic of hostility,
I would just point out this thread that i ended up on last week. I feel that this kind of hostility is a bigger concern for the community and this forum than any argument about design issues or upstream/downstream sharing.

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1433784

in the end, an op that wanted to support ubuntu, was shouted down by the "it's just a tool"/"mention don't preach" crowd, made to retract his posts, and has not been heard from since.

[Directive 4]

This thread has nothing to do with the changes being made to Ubuntu. It has to do with the community (and the official representatives) and their attitude towards people who voice concerns or raise criticism. .


yes, it seems to me that the CoC shouldn't really even be there, or at the very least it should be changed to,

you'll be allright if you agree with "us" (whoever us are) but if you disagree then your doomed

[AllRadioisDead]

This forum has bigger problems than hostility.

[oldsoundguy]

Part of "hostility" can be attributed to an initial post .. some new member comes on with a blistering rant that may or may not have some foundation, they are going to be met with, at least, mild hostility. Human nature to defend your own.
Granted, it should not be that way, but in some cases, what do you expect?

But moving to another distro because they rankled some members is a very weak excuse for "I want it all my way and no other way will do!"

IF serious, suggest they spend some time lurking in the rafters of some other build related forums and just watch what is going on.

One of the reasons I shifted from several years of Fedora usage was just that .. hostility and just downright meanness in responses posted on their forums. The attitude of "God, you are dumb and why did you ask that as the answer is right in front of you" and "RTFM" responses. And the "go Google it" rather than a polite: "I found this on Google for you" response and nudge. Not to ME .. but in general.

Even Linux.org has those types of responses to members .. especially newbies. That turns people off to using the system. The "we really don't want you playing in our sandbox if you don't know as much as we do" attitude.

Instances such as that are much fewer and further between on the Ubuntu forums (thanks to moderators that, in the main, have their heads screwed on straight) .. one of the primary reasons I dropped other builds and came here. Other builds work just fine with some care and work, but this place has much more sense of community rather than a gathering of snooty geeks!

[swoll1980]

on the topic of hostility,
I would just point out this thread that i ended up on last week. I feel that this kind of hostility is a bigger concern for the community and this forum than any argument about design issues or upstream/downstream sharing.

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1433784

in the end, an op that wanted to support ubuntu, was shouted down by the "it's just a tool"/"mention don't preach" crowd, made to retract his posts, and has not been heard from since.

Yeah he even edited his post to hide the shame they made him feel about merely saying something positive about Linux on a Linux forum. I've been crusading against this behavior for a while, but it's a lost cause. I did a sting about 3 weeks ago where I made a positive comment about Ubuuntu, and Canonical, waited for them to take the bait, and reported the whole thread. It was quite entertaining.

[l-x-l]

So people want to stop using a free distro that works for them because of button placement (which can be easily changed).

That's like refusing a free car because they don't like the air-fresher scent.

[swoll1980]

They won't stop using it. It's just butt-hurtedness. Time heals all wounds.

[Doctor Mike]

You know it's really simple. If someone starts a thread that you think is out in left field, why do you think you must post a response? If it's out in left field there will only be a small number of left fielders who respond and the post will die a natural death. If there are lot of left fielders then maybe the minority have a point. If the left fielders get out of hand the PM will have less posts (potentially) to review and maybe a couple of warnings and a redacted post or two will solve the problem.

I'm not saying don't read or reply to a post you find out in left field. Sometimes the left fielder needs to be pointed toward right field, but if you do, try to be civil. If the first line of your response is (wtf, or other similar derogatory acronym) then don't be surprised if the next response is hostile or the person being responded to perceives you to be hostile.

People can debate issues a lot more controversial then you find in these forums without becoming uncivil.

[KiwiNZ]

You know it's really simple. If someone starts a thread that you think is out in left field, why do you think you must post a response? If it's out in left field there will only be a small number of left fielders who respond and the post will die a natural death. If there are lot of left fielders then maybe the minority have a point. If the left fielders get out of hand the PM will have less posts (potentially) to review and maybe a couple of warnings and a redacted post or two will solve the problem.

I'm not saying don't read or reply to a post you find out in left field. Sometimes the left fielder needs to be pointed toward right field, but if you do, try to be civil. If the first line of your response is (wtf, or other similar derogatory acronym) then don't be surprised if the next response is hostile or the person being responded to perceives you to be hostile.

People can debate issues a lot more controversial then you find in these forums without becoming uncivil.

Exactly. Follow the Code of Conduct and the rest is easy.

[Groucho Marxist]

i'd say these forums are like any failed communism,

meant to be about community but ends up being subject to the wim's of a select few.

+1

Ironically, I just finished reading a text on the subject.

At any rate, I would make the suggestion that "if you don't like it, then fix it." I know I would be willing to put in the time to learn coding languages if it meant working with others to fix reoccurring problems.

[Capt. Blackwood]

I must have been lucky to avoid hostility. I am looking forward to 10.04 :D

[Directive 4]

I'm just posting this here again so that you can see the article I linked to (my old post was deleted):

I don't think a lot of people care if some random chapeaux de derrière act in an improper manner. What people do care about is when real, well thought out and properly presented criticism falls on deaf ears even when delivered through proper channels (such as the Launchpad bug tracker, for example).



seems like your post wasn't the only thing deleted....


http://www.fewt.com/2010/03/bye-ubun...n-fun-but.html


Sorry, the page you were looking for in the blog fewt@blog:~$ _ (http://www.fewt.com/) does not exist.



do we as a community really want to treat dissent like the government of (what, i can't say or i'll be banned for talking about politics):-k

[koenn]

... but here you go: http://www.fewt.com/2010/03/bye-ubun...n-fun-but.html
If you're truly interested, I also suggest you read through the comments on the bug report linked to in that article. There are some real gems in there by our beloved SABDFL.

broken link

[Doctor Mike]

If you're truly interested, I also suggest you read through the comments on the bug report linked to in that article. There are some real gems in there by our beloved SABDFL.[/QUOTE]Hi Nevon, I think your link is broken or the material removed. For what its worth my remarks about civility were addressed to everybody developer, moderator, user alike. I think everybody makes the mistake of being uncivil once in a while.

[_h_]

broken link

The blog owner deleted the post, LOL.

[koenn]

seems like your post wasn't the only thing deleted....


http://www.fewt.com/2010/03/bye-ubun...n-fun-but.html


Sorry, the page you were looking for in the blog fewt@blog:~$ _ (http://www.fewt.com/) does not exist.


do we as a community really want to treat dissent like the government of (what, i can't say or i'll be banned for talking about politics):-k

the url in that post is incomplete, it has those [ ... ] from how this forum shows shortened hyperlinks.

[whiskeylover]

the url in that post is incomplete, it has those [ ... ] from how this forum shows shortened hyperlinks.

It shows the URL as www.fewt.com for me.

[koenn]

It shows the URL as www.fewt.com for me.

it's this, i think:
http://www.fewt.com/2010/03/bye-ubuntu-it-could-have-been-fun-but.html


the link in Nevon's post looks like this, note the href :



<a href="http://www.fewt.com/2010/03/bye-ubun...n-fun-but.html" target="_blank">
http://www.fewt.com/2010/03/bye-ubun...n-fun-but.html</a>

[Nevon]

it's this, i think:
http://www.fewt.com/2010/03/bye-ubuntu-it-could-have-been-fun-but.html


the link in Nevon's post looks like this, note the href :



<a href="http://www.fewt.com/2010/03/bye-ubun...n-fun-but.html" target="_blank">
http://www.fewt.com/2010/03/bye-ubun...n-fun-but.html</a>



Yes, that's the correct link. I had copied the text directly from the infraction on my user page, and didn't notice that the link had been messed up. It seems my post has since been deleted yet again, this time without any explanation. But whatever, at least the link is available again.

[Doctor Mike]

It shows the URL as www.fewt.com (http://www.fewt.com) for me.Thanks whiskeylover. I wanted to read that. I vote for a ten thoudsand bean penalty. Oh, that's right I don't have a vote. That's ok I drink too much coffee anyway.

[doas777]

Exactly. Follow the Code of Conduct and the rest is easy.
unfourtunatly, it seems that there is a movement to harm the forums community, while remaining within the confines of the CoC. I suppose there isn;t much to be done, but this place is not nearly so nice a forum as it was 2 years ago. the tone has changed and not for the better, imo.

[Doctor Mike]

Yes, that's the correct link. I had copied the text directly from the infraction on my user page, and didn't notice that the link had been messed up. It seems my post has since been deleted yet again, this time without any explanation. But whatever, at least the link is available again.Your post is still quoted in my post.

[Directive 4]

It seems my post has since been deleted yet again, this time without any explanation. But whatever, at least the link is available again.


i for one think that deleting post's without explanation is hostility,


do you think that the person who deleted it can justify it within the CoC?

[Nevon]

i for one think that deleting post's without explanation is hostility,


do you think that the person who deleted it can justify it within the CoC?

The first time, sure. The second time, possibly. The third time, no.

But this shouldn't be discussed here. That'll only net you an infraction. :rolleyes:

[swoll1980]

nvrmnd

[Doctor Mike]

i for one think that deleting post's without explanation is hostility,


do you think that the person who deleted it can justify it within the CoC?Yup, Nevons comments are no longer quoted in my post. Anything can be justified in the CoC. It's at the discretion of the moderator or above, which means trying to be a nice guy will likely get me in trouble. Exit stage left... already...

[whiskeylover]

Thanks whiskeylover. I wanted to read that. I vote for a ten thoudsand bean penalty. Oh, that's right I don't have a vote. That's ok I drink too much coffee anyway.

Sorry, I didn't read the entire post before quoting it : (

[Directive 4]

i think that Nevons experience on this very thread is a good example of Hostility on the forum.

seems to me his posts where not off topic, rather to close to the truth.

maybe he should take it up with the show trial err, i mean the resolution center

:rolleyes:

[_h_]

i think that Nevons experience on this very thread is a good example of Hostility on the forum.

seems to me his posts where not off topic, rather to close to the truth.

maybe he should take it up with the show trial err, i mean the resolution center

:rolleyes:


Every post I've seen from you so far has been an attempt to undermine the forums and staff here, what's your deal?

[matthew]

Any topic or discussion that causes problems or drama will be closed.
So, I'm closing this.