ATI or Nvidia for a better overall experience on Linux?

[Starks]

Simple question.

In terms of GPU-assisted features, open-drivers, and closed-drivers, who comes out on top for laptops?

[Paqman]

Nvidia have always been a better bet. You get good proprietary drivers, and the nouveau open source driver in Lucid is getting some great feedback. Plus you get GPGPU in the form of CUDA.

[Starks]

What about stuff like vdpau/vaapi/xvba and physics engines?

[blueshiftoverwatch]

ATI has better open drivers, Nvidia has better proprietary drivers. From what I've heard, ATI's proprietary drivers are pretty bad and the open drivers aren't all that great either at the moment. Some people will tell you to get an ATI card because their drivers will eventually become very good. But I spent $200 on my GPU and I'm not going to put that kind of money out there on the promise that my hardware will eventually work well. I want to be able to take full advantage of it on day one.

/in before move to recurring discussions/

[fatality_uk]

I vote nVidia. The features inthe drivers are almost compatible with the Windows world.

[gradinaruvasile]

Nvidia is the best solution ATM if you use their proprietary drivers - plus their drivers have the best stability.

[Nevon]

Go with Nvidia if you don't mind using proprietary drivers. I bought an ATi HD4850 after hearing about how the closed source ATi drivers were pretty much as good as the Nvidia ones, and boy was I underwhelmed. I can't even watch HD movies on it, despite the fact that my laptop with a craptastic intel integrated chip does it without a hitch.

[Starks]

Does this praise transfer over to the Windows 7 partition I'm going to have?

Also keep in mind that this topic is referring to my next laptop.

[sxmaxchine]

ati mearly because i prefer ati to nvidia

[Starks]

I could go either way if I wanted. My history is 2-1 for Nvidia vs ATI in terms of past experiences. Getting tired of Intel graphics though.

[Lensman]

I like them both, but my ATI 4670 has been purring along just fine.

[Khakilang]

I would prefer nVidia because of driver although proprietery it works great.

[redmage85]

Nvidia all the way! it has better support and stability both in windows and linux, as far as my past experience with graphic cards goes

[3rdalbum]

For Linux support, Nvidia is literally one or two years ahead of ATI.

Nvidia performance is much better on Linux, plus you get accelerated video decoding with VDPAU, plus you can use 3D programs and Compiz at the same time (which you can't do with ATI).

As for "ATI's open drivers": Nouveau is rapidly catching up, and besides ATI doesn't make any open-source drivers; the community does. Most people will use the proprietary drivers anyway, so Nvidia is the definite choice.

I've used ATI and I've used Nvidia, and I can definitely say that Nvidia will give you a far superior experience. Anyone who tells you to buy ATI has simply not used both cards on Linux.

[M1ke]

As it's a laptop the OP is looking to buy and I might be doing the same soon, which nVidia cards can anyone recommend? Most laptops with a dedicated graphics card I find are all sporting ATi Mobility Radeon.

[Paqman]

Does this praise transfer over to the Windows 7 partition I'm going to have?


No, ATI cards are fine on Windows. They've just been dragging their feet releasing decent drivers for Linux.

[sxmaxchine]

For Linux support, Nvidia is literally one or two years ahead of ATI.

Nvidia performance is much better on Linux, plus you get accelerated video decoding with VDPAU, plus you can use 3D programs and Compiz at the same time (which you can't do with ATI).

As for "ATI's open drivers": Nouveau is rapidly catching up, and besides ATI doesn't make any open-source drivers; the community does. Most people will use the proprietary drivers anyway, so Nvidia is the definite choice.

I've used ATI and I've used Nvidia, and I can definitely say that Nvidia will give you a far superior experience. Anyone who tells you to buy ATI has simply not used both cards on Linux.

you cant say that nvidia is 2 years ahead of ati because that is plainly untrue especially since the ATI radeon hd 5970 is the worlds fastest gpu and the Sapphire Radeon HD 5970 is even faster

[antenna]

you cant say that nvidia is 2 years ahead of ati because that is plainly untrue especially since the ATI radeon hd 5970 is the worlds fastest gpu and the Sapphire Radeon HD 5970 is even faster

He clearly said for Linux support.

I am in the same position, I was considering going ATI but now I am not so sure... I haven't kept an eye on the progress of Nouveau. Open driver availability is fairly important to me after ATI discontined Linux support for one of their cards a fairly short time after I purchased it new.

[osfight.de]

you cant say that nvidia is 2 years ahead of ati because that is plainly untrue especially since the ATI radeon hd 5970 is the worlds fastest gpu and the Sapphire Radeon HD 5970 is even faster

This discussion is about drivers and I agree using Nvidia works like a charm for many years, whereas ATI might work or not. ATI works on open source drivers wheras Nvidia refuses to do that, however, the closed source drivers are excellent. And I just discovered Disper (http://willem.engen.nl/projects/disper/) for Nvida on Linux allowing you to quickly switch to external monitors with shortcuts, very nice.

I have used a ATI on Linux two years ago trying to make it work with HD videos /compiz and got really frustrated. I have not tried since than any ATI on Linux but friends are telling me it is still not as smooth as with Nvidia.
(Making compiz and nvidia work takes less than five minutes)

At last: I would love to see Nvidia releasing open source drivers or a better API to work with Kernel features in the future. ATI is on the better way at least providing information, Nvidia striclty refuses that. The Noveaux Driver is getting better every day, but without Nvidias help I do not see a future for it and Nvidia strictly refuses to help.

(More information on Open Source Graphics on phoronix.com)

[Changturkey]

Go with Nvidia if you don't mind using proprietary drivers. I bought an ATi HD4850 after hearing about how the closed source ATi drivers were pretty much as good as the Nvidia ones, and boy was I underwhelmed. I can't even watch HD movies on it, despite the fact that my laptop with a craptastic intel integrated chip does it without a hitch.

Wait, your X4500 can play 720/1080p? On Linux? How?

[Carpentr]

On Linux Nvidia is the best option of the two. Sadly, I really like ATI better when it comes to GPUs; I never had a problem with them. My last two cards have been Nvidia. My first was a 8600 GTS and it was defective. My second was a 9800GT that came with my Dell. It was also defective and a computer technician from Dell had to come and replace it.

I've always liked ATI more, but their drivers for Linux aren't too good. So if you wanted good performance (especially in gaming) Nvidia is your safest bet.

[Starks]

Wait, your X4500 can play 720/1080p? On Linux? How?
Dude, even an i945 can play 720p flawlessly. 1080p too if you use coreavc-for-linux.

[AllRadioisDead]

I had a 4850, got sick of the constant tearing, and poor performance. I bought a GTS 250 and I have nothing but good things to say about it.

[earthpigg]

I bought a GTS 250 and I have nothing but good things to say about it.

ditto, my GTS 250 is also pretty sexy.

yup, nVidia hands down.

for windows users, this is up to reasonable debate with reasonable arguments on either side.

for Linux users, it's a case of "nVidia or dont even bother purchasing one".

[RichardLinx]

Nvidia if you're using Linux.

[swoll1980]

ati and nvidia both work fine in Windows. If your planning on using Linux you need an Nvidia card.

[3rdalbum]

you cant say that nvidia is 2 years ahead of ati because that is plainly untrue especially since the ATI radeon hd 5970 is the worlds fastest gpu and the Sapphire Radeon HD 5970 is even faster

First, I said "For Linux support, Nvidia is one or two years ahead of ATI".

Second, you're trying to compare a GPU with a full graphics card that uses that GPU. It's like comparing the speed of a car with the speed of an engine.

[inobe]

nvidia without a doubt, their 6xxx series and up cards will do, the driver support is very good.

"if" you can get your ati card to work' performance would be very poor due to it's mediocre driver and you will not experience the cards true potentials.

[Changturkey]

Dude, even an i945 can play 720p flawlessly. 1080p too if you use coreavc-for-linux.

Sorry, 720p/1080p .mkv s. And I don't want to use CoreAVC, I'd like to use hardware acceleration.

[Starks]

Yes, even mkv files with H.264 video and FLAC audio. I know what I'm talking about.

Also, don't expect VA-API accelerations to ever work for the 945 or 4500.

[iRiUX]

Simple question.

In terms of GPU-assisted features, open-drivers, and closed-drivers, who comes out on top for laptops?

I have two laptops, one NVIDIA and one ATI.

ATI:
- Better Open-Source drivers.
- Proprietary drivers is great but has some issues: hardware accelerated video playback not supported yet, slow when playing games through wine (so I hear, I only play native games). Native games will play as well as they play on windows.

NVIDIA:
- Great proprietary drivers.
- Open-Source are still way behind ATI open-source.


With both drivers, they don't have support for their latest videocards, so be careful about that. In NViDIA's case they don't even support those on their windows OS yet, and there isn't even an alpha for linux....

[Changturkey]

Yes, even mkv files with H.264 video and FLAC audio. I know what I'm talking about.

Also, don't expect VA-API accelerations to ever work for the 945 or 4500.

But then it's not the i945 decoding the video, it's your processor.

[mips]

Does this praise transfer over to the Windows 7 partition I'm going to have?

Also keep in mind that this topic is referring to my next laptop.

Depends on which you will be spending the most time on, Linux or Windows?

In Windows I would say ATI all the way. Better performance and more bang for buck. I would however not recommend ATI for Linux at this stage although I would love to. Incase you are wondering I'm not a ati fanboy as I'm a long time nvidia user but currently the ati offerings are better value.

[ssam]

i am more into open drivers than games so ATI. i got a passive cooled HD3650, and it works fine. compiz, HD video, basic 3D. because its open drivers it work out of the box (or on the live cd), i dont need to worry about upgrading kernels.

the opensource radeon driver should continue to develop at a good speed, as AMD are supporting the effort with documentation and manpower. nvidia have chosen to ignore the nouveau project.

you can compare the status at.
http://www.x.org/wiki/RadeonFeature
http://nouveau.freedesktop.org/wiki/FeatureMatrix

[Starks]

Depends on which you will be spending the most time on, Linux or Windows?

In Windows I would say ATI all the way. Better performance and more bang for buck. I would however not recommend ATI for Linux at this stage although I would love to. Incase you are wondering I'm not a ati fanboy as I'm a long time nvidia user but currently the ati offerings are better value.
Is this subject to change within the next few months?

And yes, I use my Linux partition 95% of the time.

[iRiUX]

Is this subject to change within the next few months?

And yes, I use my Linux partition 95% of the time.

I can't tell a difference between ATI and NVIDIA desktop performance. I use Linux 100% of the time. On another partition I have win7, but I never go in it. The laptop I spend most time on (99%) uses ATI 4570. As I've said, you will experience no issues, until and unless you want to do one of the following:
1) If you're a 'pro-user' and like to live on the edge with the latest xserver, kernel, etc that don't come with Ubuntu. (some users upgrade manually to the latest kernels, etc)
2) You like playing windows games with wine. With applications through wine, it doesn't matter. I very often use photoshop CS through wine without any performance difference.
3) You get annoyed that ATI constantly works on fixing things and adding things that are meant for companies, rather than on your desktop.

Practically all complaints about ATI come from users of non-supported distros who live on the edge of Linux tech. :) Which I completely understand of course, ATI should support the latest kernels, regardless of whether Ubuntu/RedHat/SUSE hasn't used it... other distros should also enjoy it.

For NVIDIA you will not have drivers for the 200 series, not even an alpha or something that slightly works... there are hacks to make other drivers work... but its horrible, heh.

The pace of advancement for the NVIDIA driver is faster than the pace of the ATI driver. An ATI employee said that they invest resources on the ATI drivers based on an estimate that there are 3% linux OS users (2% extra margin included)).

Both drivers have OpenGL 3.2 support. Heavy native games play with maximum settings on mine.

If you want to be on the edge with the latest things for your driver, get NVIDIA. If you're willing to live with the faults of ATI and don't mind them not getting fixed in 6 months, you can get ATI.

I'm not sure the advancements can be compared that easilly though... ATI releases drivers every month, but NViDIA releases every six months... so the change list will of course differ. What annoys me most about ATI is their strong focus on non-personal users (e.g. companies that use linux at exhibitions

[realzippy]

For NVIDIA you will not have drivers for the 200 series, not even an alpha or something that slightly works... there are hacks to make other drivers work... but its horrible, heh.



????????????
Who told you?
195.36.15 is the driver for the 200 series.My GF's 260 works perfectly with it....Compiz in Lucid,with 16xAA;sure
thats impossible with ATI.

[iRiUX]

For NVIDIA you will not have drivers for the 200 series, not even an alpha or something that slightly works... there are hacks to make other drivers work... but its horrible, heh.



????????????
Who told you?
195.36.15 is the driver for the 200 series.My GF's 260 works perfectly with it....
Oops, it seems you're right. I just checked... the GT 230 (released June 15, 2009) is not supported yet. I thought the rest of the newer ones musn't be supported either then. But it seems they just passed this driver, heh.