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swoll1980
March 19th, 2010, 08:31 PM
I never understood this. I can't figure out what they would have to gain from this. They spend tons of money developing this browser that has nothing to do with whether, or not someone pays for windows. Is there a business model hidden here, that I'm not seeing? Opera is another one I don't understand. They have no ads on their site, they don't charge any money for it, yet they manage to pay for developers, and severs, web developers. I just don't get it.

Maheriano
March 19th, 2010, 08:35 PM
The same reason Microsoft released a box that plays games.
They have an operating system that runs on computers.....which plays games.....yet they went ahead and released another box also running Windows which......also plays games. I don't get it. Their business models don't make sense.

GeoPrude
March 19th, 2010, 08:38 PM
I never understood this. I can't figure out what they would have to gain from this. They spend tons of money developing this browser that has nothing to do with whether, or not someone pays for windows. Is there a business model hidden here, that I'm not seeing? Opera is another one I don't understand. They have no ads on their site, they don't charge any money for it, yet they manage to pay for developers, and severs, web developers. I just don't get it.

If you don't understand something, why not read up on it?

phrostbyte
March 19th, 2010, 08:41 PM
There were afraid in the 90s that Netscape would reduce the lockin potential of Windows OS.

I think the Netscape CEO was once quoted saying that Windows in the future will just be a "series of poorly debugged device drivers". Implying that the web will be the future computing platform and it would be easy to switch off of Windows and still get the Netscape shell/web browser.

lyceum
March 19th, 2010, 08:43 PM
Windows actually runs in IE. Or, at least it use to from what I understand. Even in Vista, when my IE crashes the whole system crashes. I remember trying to uninstall it on Windows 98, when I finally figured out how, nothing worked.

Post Monkeh
March 19th, 2010, 08:52 PM
they made internet explorer to give people easy internet access, before there were loads of other browsers. and in xp anyway it was totally integrated with the update system.
maybe they just want as many people as possible to use their software so that people go on thinking that they're the only company that makes decent software, and so they keep theier market position. they're maybe just planning for the future, thinking that if another company could come in and start making a lot of indispensible software for its os, that the company in question could have a bit of power over them. if they are able to offer all the software the average user needs out of the box, they're more in control.

or maybe they use it to spy on you, i dunno

Post Monkeh
March 19th, 2010, 08:54 PM
Windows actually runs in IE. Or, at least it use to from what I understand. Even in Vista, when my IE crashes the whole system crashes. I remember trying to uninstall it on Windows 98, when I finally figured out how, nothing worked.

:D
ie was integrated into the operating system, but your os wasn't running inside its internet browser.

:D

doas777
March 19th, 2010, 08:54 PM
they seem to believe that "There can be only One!". hence their latest departure into the malware scanner area. they tried to charge for it last year, but that didn't take so they build security essentials, upon which they;ll add some paid-for services soon.

Simon17
March 19th, 2010, 08:55 PM
Windows actually runs in IE. Or, at least it use to from what I understand. Even in Vista, when my IE crashes the whole system crashes.

Lawl. Have you ever actually used Windows?

RabbitWho
March 19th, 2010, 08:58 PM
Windows actually runs in IE. Or, at least it use to from what I understand. Even in Vista, when my IE crashes the whole system crashes. I remember trying to uninstall it on Windows 98, when I finally figured out how, nothing worked.

I think you've confused "Explorer" with "Internet Explorer".

rottentree
March 19th, 2010, 08:58 PM
This?
http://www.slate.com/id/2238996/?from=rss

ankspo71
March 19th, 2010, 09:00 PM
Why does gnome and kde make their own browsers? (epiphany and konqeror) Just kidding! :p There is money behind putting IE in windows (as in giving people a reason to buy windows or a windows based PC), and and I think there would be money behind Opera pre-installed on mini devices etc. (I'm only guessing about opera)

hessiess
March 19th, 2010, 09:03 PM
Because they want to hold back the internet and make it a pain to develop for (not following standards).

Psumi
March 19th, 2010, 09:04 PM
I think you've confused "Explorer" with "Internet Explorer".

*sigh*

Phrea
March 19th, 2010, 09:14 PM
The internet was becoming very important halfway the 90's, and if they did not include a browser, how would novice users get online and surf the net [even to get another browser].
They wouldn't know what to do. :D

koshatnik
March 19th, 2010, 09:16 PM
The same reason Microsoft released a box that plays games.
They have an operating system that runs on computers.....which plays games.....yet they went ahead and released another box also running Windows which......also plays games. I don't get it. Their business models don't make sense.

Software publishers have to pay a license to release software on a given platform. The X-Box is obviously making enough money as a licensing platform for MS to continue to support it.

Regenweald
March 19th, 2010, 09:18 PM
I never understood this. I can't figure out what they would have to gain from this. They spend tons of money developing this browser that has nothing to do with whether, or not someone pays for windows. Is there a business model hidden here, that I'm not seeing? Opera is another one I don't understand. They have no ads on their site, they don't charge any money for it, yet they manage to pay for developers, and severs, web developers. I just don't get it.

Opera does deals much like the recent Ubuntu+Yahoo deal to generate funds. They also have a pretty big mobile browser market share in Europe. Advertising and search engine defaults are where the money is in browsers.

JSeymour
March 19th, 2010, 09:19 PM
There were afraid in the 90s that Netscape would reduce the lockin potential of Windows OS.

I think the Netscape CEO was once quoted saying that Windows in the future will just be a "series of poorly debugged device drivers". Implying that the web will be the future computing platform and it would be easy to switch off of Windows and still get the Netscape shell/web browser.We have a winnah!

Microsoft then wired their browser into the OS and desktop so Win* wouldn't run w/o it, gave the browser away for free, destroyed Netscape's business model, and the rest is history.

eriktheblu
March 19th, 2010, 09:26 PM
Model 1
1. Make your browser default on your OS.
2. Make deals with OEMs to prohibit installation of other browsers
3. Once you have the most used browser, add features that other browsers cannot provide due to intellectual property laws.
4. Internet is reshaped based on the capabilities of the most used browser
5. Stop development of the browser for other operating systems
6. In order to employ the internet as it is built, users must buy your latest OS.

Model 2
1-3 as listed above
4. Charge fees to browser vendors to employ the net features you developed

Model 3
Whereas: An internet browser is considered by our customers to be an essential program and
Whereas: Other companies who's policies we do not control make browsers and
Whereas: Should browser companies cease to support our OS or charge excessive fees, your customers may leave our OS for one that provides a browser
Therefore: We maintain a browser installed by default to provide our customer with a fully functional OS not bound to the whims of third parties.

I think MS is more along the lines of model 1 where Apple is probably thinking more like model 3.

Opera has previously sold their product (trial versions with a purchase requirement, later ad supported). For a time they might have made money from Nintendo (Opera could be purchased with Wii points) or other companies that used Opera in their devices. Wikipedia shows their current revenue deriving mostly from Google. I think Ubuntu is doing something similar with Lucid.

Google's stated purpose is to force advancement of browsers so they might provide more advanced web programs. If they can provide more advanced programs, they have more opportunity to advertise.

Post Monkeh
March 19th, 2010, 09:28 PM
We have a winnah!

Microsoft then wired their browser into the OS and desktop so Win* wouldn't run w/o it, gave the browser away for free, destroyed Netscape's business model, and the rest is history.

netscape still exists, in fact i'd say most users on these forums are using it right now

Old Marcus
March 19th, 2010, 09:40 PM
I think the similarities between Netscape and Firefox 3.6 are negligable at best these days...

Post Monkeh
March 19th, 2010, 09:56 PM
I think the similarities between Netscape and Firefox 3.6 are negligable at best these days...

so are the similarities between ie5 and ie8

NCLI
March 20th, 2010, 04:24 PM
The same reason Microsoft released a box that plays games.
They have an operating system that runs on computers.....which plays games.....yet they went ahead and released another box also running Windows which......also plays games. I don't get it. Their business models don't make sense.

They made the Xbox because they feared Sony and their PlayStation would become the dominant "PC" in the living room, closing a market that they foresaw would become huge: The Media PC market. And just look at the situation today: Both the PS3 and the X360 have become capable Media Centers which tie-in with the entire home network. Microsoft's solution is tied-in heavily with Windows, and Sony's with their own services.

If Microsoft hadn't made the Xbox, Sony would dominate the media center market now, and Windows would be cut out of the "center of the living room" market, making it easier to dump Windows, as you're not tied-in with Live, and provide less incentive to use Windows Phone 7 over Android and the iPhone OS.

IE is supported for the same reason: Making people dependent on Windows services, and forcing the world to shape the infrastructure of the Internet around it, whereas the Xbox shapes the home media standards and gaming network around it.

DeadSuperHero
March 20th, 2010, 04:44 PM
Well, why shouldn't they make their own browser and bundle it with their system? Apple does the same thing, yet no one seems to mind. It's their system, they can do what they want with it. You're free to just use another browser if you don't care for it. It's not like they're still pushing IE for UNIX systems.

NCLI
March 20th, 2010, 04:48 PM
Well, why shouldn't they make their own browser and bundle it with their system? Apple does the same thing, yet no one seems to mind. It's their system, they can do what they want with it. You're free to just use another browser if you don't care for it. It's not like they're still pushing IE for UNIX systems.

If it adhered to the international standards on how to render websites, and if you were able to uninstall it from Windows, it wouldn't be so bad.

JSeymour
March 20th, 2010, 04:57 PM
netscape still exists, ...As a subsidiary of AOL (which, itself, may not be much longer for this world), and not as a browser maker.

MasterNetra
March 20th, 2010, 07:24 PM
The same reason Microsoft released a box that plays games.
They have an operating system that runs on computers.....which plays games.....yet they went ahead and released another box also running Windows which......also plays games. I don't get it. Their business models don't make sense.

Actually creating a game console does make sense. For starters even if they charge $200 for their xboxs. Its still cheaper then a equivalent regular computer and so with gamers purchasing it instead of/(in addition to) a new computer MS makes money, they are a corporation and like all corps its all about making money. If it makes money then do it.

mamamia88
March 20th, 2010, 07:26 PM
how would you install firefox if you couldn't browse the web and download it?

scouser73
March 20th, 2010, 08:22 PM
To dominate the marketplace.

Post Monkeh
March 20th, 2010, 08:24 PM
As a subsidiary of AOL (which, itself, may not be much longer for this world), and not as a browser maker.

the netscape browser evolved into firefox.

AllRadioisDead
March 20th, 2010, 08:28 PM
how would you install firefox if you couldn't browse the web and download it?
The same way people in the EU do it.

Gallahhad
March 20th, 2010, 08:35 PM
Microsoft makes lots of products, and does so with the intended goal of profiting from them.

Internet Explorer seems to be a natural value added benefit of owning a MS Windows Operating System which also relies heavily on I.E. to make the entire MS Windows experience as seamless as possible.

The subject of an OS having it's own proprietary browser is not unique to Microsoft, Apple for instance has Safari, and the KDE desktop has Konqueror.

It's probably also noteworthy to consider that if Internet Explorer were not helping Microsoft's bottom line, then it would be unlikely that they would continue developing and maintaining it.

doorknob60
March 20th, 2010, 09:45 PM
Well, any decent OS needs to have a web browser included with it (like Safari in OS X and Firefox in Ubuntu, etc.), and at the time creating their own Browser was probably the best option.

earthpigg
March 20th, 2010, 10:10 PM
how would you install firefox if you couldn't browse the web and download it?

using my internet connection, with the package manager that any modern and complete operating system will come with, of course.

Trandre
March 20th, 2010, 10:16 PM
Windows runs on explorer.exe. if you kill the explorer.exe process in windows your desktop will vanish.

What is the difference between explorer.exe process and ie? they run on the same process dont they?


Trandre

Doctor Mike
March 20th, 2010, 10:34 PM
I never understood this. I can't figure out what they would have to gain from this. They spend tons of money developing this browser that has nothing to do with whether, or not someone pays for windows. Is there a business model hidden here, that I'm not seeing? Opera is another one I don't understand. They have no ads on their site, they don't charge any money for it, yet they manage to pay for developers, and severs, web developers. I just don't get it.Do you remember Netscape, ODP, POwer, search engines, where the data came from, Yahoooooooooo, Aol, and money. H is the best answer, but Microsoft lost that battle, but there still here so that department is funded until.... better ask Microsoft.... Ha Ha Ha LOL and dies.

tadcan
March 20th, 2010, 10:35 PM
how would you install firefox if you couldn't browse the web and download it?

By ording the free cd with mozilla suit sent to you courtesy of the mozilla foundation. :D

Doctor Mike
March 20th, 2010, 10:44 PM
By ording the free cd with mozilla suit sent to you courtesy of the mozilla foundation. :DYes Netscape by a better name... History bites and where can you find the doctor (not me). Many big powerful games were played back in 1998 (toward1999) too 2001. I think it's called leveling the playing field by crapping on it.

Netscape was not a free product. it was allowed to be free for great historical reasons. Mozilla was a child, born of the ODP + and has led us all here today. My personal opine... Look a it's development...

Desert Sailor
March 20th, 2010, 11:24 PM
The Microsoft mantra is: "Embrace and extend" When someone comes up with a new idea, like networking by Novell, web browsing by Netscape, file management by QuickDos, Microsoft will first embrace the new technology by copying it, or just outright buying the company, then they will include it, and extend it by adding features or bells and whistles which are proprietary to them, and enhance their dominance, and drive any competing companies out of business.

The problem with Linux is that they can't kill the beast by embracing and extending, and they can't buy the company and kill it. So they just have to live with it and they hate that.

NCLI
March 20th, 2010, 11:32 PM
Windows runs on explorer.exe. if you kill the explorer.exe process in windows your desktop will vanish.

What is the difference between explorer.exe process and ie? they run on the same process dont they?


Trandre

explorer.exe in Windows = Nautilus in Ubuntu

iexplore.exe in Windows = Firefox in Ubuntu

Firefox is not Nautilus, and Internet Explorer(iexplore.exe) is not Windows Explorer (explorer.exe).

JDShu
March 20th, 2010, 11:39 PM
Diversification (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diversification_%28marketing_strategy%29) probably.

j.bell730
March 20th, 2010, 11:48 PM
This section (http://kmfms.com/whatsbad.html?no_custom_colors=true#predatory) of an informative article describes it quite nicely.

Doctor Mike
March 20th, 2010, 11:49 PM
The Microsoft mantra is: "Embrace and extend" When someone comes up with a new idea, like networking by Novell, web browsing by Netscape, file management by QuickDos, Microsoft will first embrace the new technology by copying it, or just outright buying the company, then they will include it, and extend it by adding features or bells and whistles which are proprietary to them, and enhance their dominance, and drive any competing companies out of business.

The problem with Linux is that they can't kill the beast by embracing and extending, and they can't buy the company and kill it. So they just have to live with it and they hate that.In Canada we have fair competition laws that prevent companies from reducing there price (based on their market share) or offering free (no limit defined) services/etc. if their action could lead to an unfair or monopolized market. Microsoft was never challenged in a Canadian court. The perceived need for Microsoft exceeded a willingness (or understanding) or to look further. If you think the adopters of (Netscape) Mozilla saw no profit (be it more modest and reasonable) than you are mistaken. I think all programmers deserve a tithe, but understand that even open source is impacted, if not driven by MONEY. This is the world we live in...

Post Monkeh
March 21st, 2010, 01:42 AM
Windows runs on explorer.exe. if you kill the explorer.exe process in windows your desktop will vanish.

What is the difference between explorer.exe process and ie? they run on the same process dont they?


Trandre

explorer and iexplorer are two totally different things.

explorer is essentially the front end to windows. killing it doesn't exactly kill windows, but it stops you actually being able to do anything, or see what's going on, but if you kill explorer in xp, for example, then ctrl-alt-del to get a task manager and run explorer again, then everything you had going on is still there - explorer just shows it.

it does other stuff too, like it's your default file manager (like the other poster above said, it's basically the equivalent of nautilus) so it's very needed.

iexplorer on the other hand, while similarly named, is just the web browser, but certainly in early versions of xp was still pretty important because if you wanted to run windows update you had to do it through internet explorer.

i don't know why people insist on removing it anyway, i just don't use it.

speedwell68
March 21st, 2010, 02:10 AM
The same way people in the EU do it.

How do people in the EU do it?

andras artois
March 21st, 2010, 02:18 AM
There were afraid in the 90s that Netscape would reduce the lockin potential of Windows OS.

I think the Netscape CEO was once quoted saying that Windows in the future will just be a "series of poorly debugged device drivers". Implying that the web will be the future computing platform and it would be easy to switch off of Windows and still get the Netscape shell/web browser.

Not far off what with how Google are progressing things obviously without the whole Netscape thing.

aklo
March 21st, 2010, 02:51 AM
I think it is all about branding. They want their names everywhere. Microsoft IE.
As for Opera, yeah i don't see what they actually do on their site besides provide FREE browser but i don't care as long as the browser is good to use. I switch browsers between safari, opera and firefox from time to time so i'm OK with it. I hate it when company(MS) provides software(IE) but it just displays css differently...


Also the reason why ending IE process will show you a blank desktop is because of their Monolithic platform. Everything is dependent of each other. Ending this process will somehow affect another thing...in this case ending IE will disable your desktop/folder.

I'm not a computer GEEK but i read about these somewhere on the net years ago...also the difference why linux is faster and lighter is becuase of the non monolithic approach...nothing is dependent on another thing...every program has their own layers if that breaks, only that layer(program) will be affected and not the entire OS.

PhoenixMaster00
March 21st, 2010, 02:58 AM
Its all part of keeping you locked in.
You use windows OS, the majority use IE.
Meaning you will be less likely to change OS. Plus it just makes sense if you make an OS you should bundle a web browser and they will charge extra per license or install disk so you are paying in some way. Plus with online service integration IE is important as a way to promote these services.

seenthelite
March 21st, 2010, 03:07 AM
The same reason Microsoft released a box that plays games.
They have an operating system that runs on computers.....which plays games.....yet they went ahead and released another box also running Windows which......also plays games. I don't get it. Their business models don't make sense.

Regarding MS's business model wasn't Bill Gates the richest man in the world when he retired.

crush304
March 21st, 2010, 03:59 AM
that little search box in the top right hand corner, that defaults to bing, is worth billions of dollars

Khakilang
March 21st, 2010, 04:21 AM
They don't give something for nothing. BTW how does Ubuntu make money?

q.dinar
March 21st, 2010, 06:46 AM
windows need html engine anyway for help system. they made it. when they have html engine why not make browser.

Fersure
March 21st, 2010, 07:18 AM
Microsoft wants to control everything. Including which browser people use, standards, etc. They want people to use Windows software and only Windows software.


They don't give something for nothing. BTW how does Ubuntu make money?

Through the Ubuntu Shop and through having Canonical as a commercial sponsor.

AllRadioisDead
March 21st, 2010, 07:25 AM
Microsoft wants to control everything. Including which browser people use, standards, etc. They want people to use Windows software and only Windows software.



Through the Ubuntu Shop and through having Canonical as a commercial sponsor.
I would argue against that...
Microsoft doesn't offer that much software with their systems, and what they do offer is rather basic (Movie maker, media player, ie, etc.)
Now:
Many people on this site enjoy using Ubuntu because (most) of the software available for Linux is free of charge. There are countless programs available for Windows on the web also, available for free. It may not be at your fingertips, and it may not be "free", but it's still free and it's there. Microsoft provides basic software bundled with their system, similar to Gnome or KDE, you are free to go beyond that and install whatever else you like.

Looks like I got a little carried away, I'm not sure if my idea is as clear as it was in my head. :?

q.dinar
March 21st, 2010, 07:27 AM
yes, they need media player with at least one video codec anyway for help system.

slooksterpsv
March 21st, 2010, 07:45 AM
In response - why does KDE have their own browser? Why does Apple make their own Browser?

Pretty much Windows took advantage of the fact that the Web was going to be the future of computing. They created a browser that made it simple to surf the web, expandable, upgradable, etc. to where it integrated, looked and felt like your using just another program in the OS - instead of a custom program - e.g. Firefox.

Microsoft has also helped create features that we use everyday in simple browsing of sites.

--Why does MS make their own console? - Simple Gaming is a huge market, plus if you look at XNA, you can create a game for Windows, cut out customized features and port it to the XBOX 360.

All in all: Where is Linux's Console? Where is their cross-hardware development platform? ... well Microsoft has joined forces to help in development of Mono .NET - So all in all, it's pretty much, if a market is doing really good, jump in and make something better or give consumers what they want. E.g. 3d Gaming on the Web will soon be possible with IE9 - Direct2D rendering gives developers a lot of power with IE and the web. Like Chrome does for developers doing a lot with JS. Find a market that's doing well, jump in and make it better!

garvinrick4
March 21st, 2010, 07:59 AM
Wait and watch Google and their Linux OS and browser. They have deep, deep pockets and a desire for market share. Google does not fail at what it wants. Will be tough on Linux market I do believe and imagine much, much more. Will be interesting.

Redache
March 21st, 2010, 08:11 AM
Google have a different idea to the traditional model that Microsoft use. Google probably aren't that interested in whether you use their OS or Browser, they've done that to try and make a tie in, but it's not exclusive. Google care if you use their Search Engine or web apps, since that's what drives their revenue.

I wouldn't compare Google to Microsoft, because nobody knows either way.

Also, IE was Integrated into Explorer, Type a URL in the FilePath bar and you will open a website within Explorer. I presume that this has changed in Vista and Windows 7.

AllRadioisDead
March 21st, 2010, 08:23 AM
Wait and watch Google and their Linux OS and browser. They have deep, deep pockets and a desire for market share. Google does not fail at what it wants. Will be tough on Linux market I do believe and imagine much, much more. Will be interesting.

meh.

Paqman
March 21st, 2010, 08:58 AM
I can't figure out what they would have to gain from this.

Would you ship an OS without a browser?

DeadSuperHero
March 21st, 2010, 10:14 AM
Wait and watch Google and their Linux OS and browser. They have deep, deep pockets and a desire for market share. Google does not fail at what it wants. Will be tough on Linux market I do believe and imagine much, much more. Will be interesting.

Google may have deep pockets and solid products, but I'm skeptical of ChromeOS. I don't really see the desktop paradigm shifting over to a web-browser-based OS as a standard anytime soon, and I don't care that much for cloud computing either.

Swagman
March 21st, 2010, 10:29 AM
Except Microsoft DIDN'T make their own browser.

They licensed one and then, rumour has it, they didn't pay the licence fee.

It's even on Microsofts website.


. In 1995, Spyglass licensed the source code for Mosaic to Microsoft and Internet Explorer was born.

quoted from this Article (http://www.microsoft.com/windows/IE/community/columns/historyofie.mspx)

Post Monkeh
March 21st, 2010, 12:58 PM
that little search box in the top right hand corner, that defaults to bing, is worth billions of dollars

IE was around long before bing was.

abhibharti
March 21st, 2010, 01:00 PM
Well many people uses windows so they don't want to loose their market share in any way.

RabbitWho
March 21st, 2010, 01:01 PM
IE was around long before bing was.


MSN have had search engines longer than Google. Like he said, those search boxes are worth a fortune.
I'm sure it's not the only reason, read a lot of this thread, i think i understand it a bit now.

Post Monkeh
March 21st, 2010, 01:18 PM
MSN have had search engines longer than Google. Like he said, those search boxes are worth a fortune.
I'm sure it's not the only reason but it's the only one i can figure out.

Maybe they can demand a slightly higher price for windows because it has IE in it. The fact is Microsoft is a software company, they make computer mouses in the same way Adidas make t-shirts, it just has the name on it.

Seriously though, reading this thread i don't get a proper answer and it's a good question.. Microsoft have gone to court to insist that they don't have to include Firefox, that presumably has cost them money, what makes it worth it? It can't JUST be the search box box and the start page because they could put firefox on windows with msn.com as it's startpage and bing as the default engine.

there was never a default search box until google came along as far as i remember.

and like i said above, my take on it is, microsoft want to keep people using their software, because the more "basic" software that people are using from other companies, the more people realise that you could, in theory, use a pc without ANY MS software at all.

Psumi
March 21st, 2010, 01:20 PM
*sigh*

To clarify why I said *sigh*...

Up until windows Vista/XP, windows was just a shell to DOS. explorer.exe provided the GUI System since about Win2000 or so (in Win98 or earlier, terminating explorer.exe did not terminate the GUI, only the taskbar.)

with XP/Vista+ Support for 16-bit applications has dwindled... so they remade the system to be standalone rather than dependant on DOS. Terminating explorer.exe in XP+ would bring up a shutdown option.

Post Monkeh
March 21st, 2010, 01:33 PM
Terminating explorer.exe in XP+ would bring up a shutdown option.

err, not in xp it doesn't, it just removes the taskbar and desktop icons.

i can't recall from before xp, but in xp, explorer is basically your front end. killing it gives you a blank desktop with just your wallpaper, but everything you had running is still there, you just can't see it.

running a new explorer task brings everything back

Psumi
March 21st, 2010, 01:34 PM
err, not in xp it doesn't, it just removes the taskbar and desktop icons.

i can't recall from before xp, but in xp, explorer is basically your front end. killing it gives you a blank desktop with just your wallpaper, but everything you had running is still there, you just can't see it.

running a new explorer task brings everything back

You have the latest XP SP#?

Post Monkeh
March 21st, 2010, 01:41 PM
You have the latest XP SP#?

yup, SP3.

i'm running the professional version on my laptop and desktop thougfh, maybe you're only running the home version

madhi19
March 21st, 2010, 02:41 PM
About a decade and a half ago in the dark age before YouTube, Twitter, web 2.0 and the y2k bug a large software cartel started panicking about the rise of the world wide web. You see they did not own the web and they feared that if somebody else started making truckload of money with the web they would sooner or later come after their market.

Back then they feared that Netscape will leverage his dominance over the web to enter the office and OS market, the market that they felt belong to them and them alone. So they set out to murder Netscape and they did. Netscape had his vengeance in the end for feeling the cold hand of death on his shoulder Netscape wrote his last will and testament releasing his holy source code to the world and Mozilla Firefox was born! You know just like an old rich dude give all his money to charities on his deathbed to spite the kids! The ultimate irony is that they murdered the wrong guy the browser does not matters it the search engine and web portal that the key to owning the web! Had they understood that they could have become Google five years before Google even existed!

clanky
March 21st, 2010, 02:55 PM
Yeah, it's all about world domination, crushing the opposition, controlling the interwebz and locking users into their OS.

Or maybe they just realised that people want to browse the internet and that if Windows came complete with a web browser then it would be a more useful and complete OS, thus more competitive and more profitable.

garvinrick4
March 21st, 2010, 03:19 PM
It's mine, It's mine, it's all mine.

rottentree
March 21st, 2010, 03:28 PM
Or maybe they just realised that people want to browse the internet and that if Windows came complete with a web browser then it would be a more useful and complete OS, thus more competitive and more profitable.

Yeah so they did whatever they could do to destroy the opposition in order to provide a more useful and complete OS.

RabbitWho
March 21st, 2010, 03:36 PM
To clarify why I said *sigh*...

Up until windows Vista/XP, windows was just a shell to DOS. explorer.exe provided the GUI System since about Win2000 or so (in Win98 or earlier, terminating explorer.exe did not terminate the GUI, only the taskbar.)

with XP/Vista+ Support for 16-bit applications has dwindled... so they remade the system to be standalone rather than dependant on DOS. Terminating explorer.exe in XP+ would bring up a shutdown option.


Thanks for the back story to it.
I figured out what it did a long time ago but I never knew the details :)

Point of information in my XP terminating explorer still shuts down the computer, but that's SP 2 and hasn't been updated in a good five or more years.

swoll1980
March 21st, 2010, 03:37 PM
@ would you make a OS w/o a browser?

When Microsoft started work on ie, Netscape already had the browser thing taken care of. People would sign up with their ISP, and get a browser. With out an ISP you didn't need a browser. There was no competition in the OS market. To me at that time saying "would you sell a OS w/o a browser." would be like saying would you sell a OS w/o CAD program. To me it doesn't seem like they needed a browser to sell operating systems. Alot of these answers make sense to me. This one doesn't.

Post Monkeh
March 21st, 2010, 03:49 PM
Thanks for the back story to it.
I figured out what it did a long time ago but I never knew the details :)

Point of information in my XP terminating explorer still shuts down the computer, but that's SP 2 and hasn't been updated in a good five or more years.

there must be a difference between the home and professional versions, mine has never shut down when i terminated explorer

RabbitWho
March 21st, 2010, 04:13 PM
there must be a difference between the home and professional versions, mine has never shut down when i terminated explorer

I actually think it might be professional, but it's many hundred miles away so I can't check. I will play with the one in work tomorrow and see what happens ha ha.

swoll1980
March 21st, 2010, 06:28 PM
I actually think it might be professional, but it's many hundred miles away so I can't check. I will play with the one in work tomorrow and see what happens ha ha.

I think killing explorer does the same thing that killing gnome-panel does on Ubuntu. Still usable, just doesn't have task bar, or start menu, or anything.

Post Monkeh
March 21st, 2010, 06:33 PM
I think killing explorer does the same thing that killing gnome-panel does on Ubuntu. Still usable, just doesn't have task bar, or start menu, or anything.

everything is still "there" if you kill explorer, you just can't see it and need to run explorer again to get your gui back

MCVenom
March 21st, 2010, 08:14 PM
err, not in xp it doesn't, it just removes the taskbar and desktop icons.

i can't recall from before xp, but in xp, explorer is basically your front end. killing it gives you a blank desktop with just your wallpaper, but everything you had running is still there, you just can't see it.

running a new explorer task brings everything back
Same here, in Vista terminating explorer.exe just removes taskbars and icons. :p

Also, its been said many times before, but once again:

explorer.exe != iexplorer.exe !

NCLI
March 21st, 2010, 08:25 PM
About a decade and a half ago in the dark age before YouTube, Twitter, web 2.0 and the y2k bug a large software cartel started panicking about the rise of the world wide web. You see they did not own the web and they feared that if somebody else started making truckload of money with the web they would sooner or later come after their market.

Back then they feared that Netscape will leverage his dominance over the web to enter the office and OS market, the market that they felt belong to them and them alone. So they set out to murder Netscape and they did. Netscape had his vengeance in the end for feeling the cold hand of death on his shoulder Netscape wrote his last will and testament releasing his holy source code to the world and Mozilla Firefox was born! You know just like an old rich dude give all his money to charities on his deathbed to spite the kids! The ultimate irony is that they murdered the wrong guy the browser does not matters it the search engine and web portal that the key to owning the web! Had they understood that they could have become Google five years before Google even existed!
And the beast shall come forth surrounded by a roiling cloud of vengeance. The house of the unbelievers shall be razed and they shall be scorched to the earth. Their tags shall blink until the end of days.

from The Book of Mozilla, 12:10

And the beast shall be made legion. Its numbers shall be increased a thousand thousand fold. The din of a million keyboards like unto a great storm shall cover the earth, and the followers of Mammon shall tremble.

from The Book of Mozilla, 3:31
(Red Letter Edition)

And so at last the beast fell and the unbelievers rejoiced. But all was not lost, for from the ash rose a great bird. The bird gazed down upon the unbelievers and cast fire and thunder upon them. For the beast had been reborn with its strength renewed, and the followers of Mammon cowered in horror.

from The Book of Mozilla, 7:15

Mammon slept. And the beast reborn spread over the earth and its numbers grew legion. And they proclaimed the times and sacrificed crops unto the fire, with the cunning of foxes. And they built a new world in their own image as promised by the sacred words, and spoke of the beast with their children. Mammon awoke, and lo! it was naught but a follower.

from The Book of Mozilla, 11:9
(10th Edition)

Maheriano
March 23rd, 2010, 05:13 PM
If Microsoft hadn't made the Xbox, Sony would dominate the media center market now, and Windows would be cut out of the "center of the living room" market, making it easier to dump Windows, as you're not tied-in with Live, and provide less incentive to use Windows Phone 7 over Android and the iPhone OS.I don't believe this, people could have built/bought a media centre PC for years before the Xbox was available. It's just in a different shaped box, that's all. What's the difference?


how would you install firefox if you couldn't browse the web and download it? The same way the European Union gets a browser on their computers, FTP.

undecim
March 23rd, 2010, 06:11 PM
Because IE only runs (well) on Windows.

They want to keep IE on top, because it means poorly designed websites will only support IE.

Which means those websites will require Windows.

Which means people will need to pay MS to get what they need.

Zlatan
March 23rd, 2010, 07:37 PM
About a decade and a half ago in the dark age before YouTube, Twitter, web 2.0 and the y2k bug a large software cartel started panicking about the rise of the world wide web. You see they did not own the web and they feared that if somebody else started making truckload of money with the web they would sooner or later come after their market.

Back then they feared that Netscape will leverage his dominance over the web to enter the office and OS market, the market that they felt belong to them and them alone. So they set out to murder Netscape and they did. Netscape had his vengeance in the end for feeling the cold hand of death on his shoulder Netscape wrote his last will and testament releasing his holy source code to the world and Mozilla Firefox was born! You know just like an old rich dude give all his money to charities on his deathbed to spite the kids! The ultimate irony is that they murdered the wrong guy the browser does not matters it the search engine and web portal that the key to owning the web! Had they understood that they could have become Google five years before Google even existed!

wow dude you're good!:)