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MooPi
March 3rd, 2010, 03:28 AM
Leave it to a Microsoft employee to suggest this incredible idea. Please lets just soak the consumer some more because I think they have a few bucks left.
http://www.itworld.com/software/98522/microsofts-charney-suggests-net-tax-clean-computers
Why don't we just write secure software and environments ?

Psumi
March 3rd, 2010, 03:35 AM
What the pfgartl?!

MMKOneEyedMike
March 3rd, 2010, 03:52 AM
Wow 1. More reason Microsoft sucks!

Go Ubuntu

Psumi
March 3rd, 2010, 03:59 AM
Wow 1. More reason Microsoft sucks!

Go Ubuntu

An Internet tax would affect everyone.

MMKOneEyedMike
March 3rd, 2010, 04:03 AM
=( Noo

Bootleg INTERNET lol

Hwt
March 3rd, 2010, 04:10 AM
I'd rather have this than some of the entirely ridiculous stuff (http://yro.slashdot.org/story/10/01/03/2241248/Bono-Hopes-Content-Tracking-Will-Help-Media-Moguls?art_pos=1) already proposed and enacted (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DMCA).

Psumi
March 3rd, 2010, 04:14 AM
I'd rather have this than some of the entirely ridiculous stuff (http://yro.slashdot.org/story/10/01/03/2241248/Bono-Hopes-Content-Tracking-Will-Help-Media-Moguls?art_pos=1) already proposed and enacted (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DMCA).

I'd rather have the whole patent system dissolved.

LinuxFanBoi
March 3rd, 2010, 04:16 AM
=( Noo

Bootleg INTERNET lol

This is not as far fetched as some may think.

sgwebb
March 3rd, 2010, 04:21 AM
This does not surprise me.. a few years ago Bill Gates was suggesting a charge per email sent to stop spam.. something like 1-5 cents each email sent

Firestem4
March 3rd, 2010, 04:21 AM
what the pfgartl?!

+1

Guyon
March 3rd, 2010, 04:24 AM
Back off my rights, Charney, <snip>.

ubunterooster
March 3rd, 2010, 04:31 AM
"And why do I pay for my neighbors to use windows"
[ISR: MS helps people]
how soon till this thread gets closed due flames?

RevKeltina
March 3rd, 2010, 05:40 AM
Great, one more tax us accountants would have to keep track of and learn all the law changes on.......someone shoot me if they do this!!!!

Simon17
March 3rd, 2010, 05:43 AM
Great, one more tax us accountants would have to keep track of and learn all the law changes on.......someone shoot me if they do this!!!!

Hell, I'd shoot an accountant even if he didn't ask me.

RevKeltina
March 3rd, 2010, 05:47 AM
Gee.....thanks! :-)

TuckLive
March 3rd, 2010, 07:49 AM
Today most hacked PCs run Microsoft's Windows operating system, and the company has invested millions in trying to fight the problem.

So even though I'm running Ubuntu I still get to pay for infected Windows users. That is so awesome. :roll:

I'd actually be paying for Windows users that have to click EVERYTHING THEY SEE.

DubyBreaks
March 3rd, 2010, 08:47 AM
Another brilliant Idea from the Microsoft stable...](*,)....charge everyone so you can inspect/monitor Windows users computers for infections they got using your ill protected OS, WOW, really? The idiocracy ceases to amaze me.

kelvin spratt
March 3rd, 2010, 09:03 AM
The UK Government is already threatening a internet tax on all phone lines but have dropped the idea as we are having a general election. So the tax will be forced on us next year.

V for Vincent
March 3rd, 2010, 09:35 AM
I think the analogy with health insurance is rather distasteful. Kind of as if health insurance was meant for those who frequent prostitutes.

Madspyman
March 3rd, 2010, 09:43 AM
Is there any problem they think they can't fix buy making users pay more, their systems are broken and they want the world to pay to fix it. An internet tax to fix a problem only MS seems to be having, the day that's proposed will be the day Apple sues for IP infringement, oh wait.

DubyBreaks
March 3rd, 2010, 10:57 AM
I think the analogy with health insurance is rather distasteful. Kind of as if health insurance was meant for those who frequent prostitutes.

ROFL!!! :lol:

audiomick
March 3rd, 2010, 12:11 PM
From the article

Microsoft Corporate Vice President for Trustworthy Computing Scott Charney said that the technology industry needs to think about more "social solutions."
ummm.... Open Source???

rottentree
March 3rd, 2010, 12:46 PM
From the article


Microsoft Corporate Vice President for Trustworthy Computing Scott Charney said that the technology industry needs to think about more "social solutions."
ummm.... Open Source???

Hmmm...
The name sounds good but what exactly do you propose under it?

audiomick
March 3rd, 2010, 12:50 PM
Hmmm...
The name sounds good but what exactly do you propose under it?
nothing specific really. I just found it a bit ironic to read about someone from Microsoft talking about "social solutions".;)
My reasons for using Ubuntu include idealogical ones relating to "social Justice"; specifically: is it right that something that has come to be so indispensable for so much of the world, i.e. a computer operating system, has to be bought from one specific company? As I said: idealist thinking I know, and of topic for this thread, I think... ;)

Kdar
March 3rd, 2010, 02:50 PM
This does not surprise me.. a few years ago Bill Gates was suggesting a charge per email sent to stop spam.. something like 1-5 cents each email sent

Well, this will not stop spam from foreign mail servers..
plus.. what if you will decide to use a foreign mail server? How would that charge apply? (if it existed today)

nothingspecial
March 3rd, 2010, 02:56 PM
Just make a new internet.......simples

ptrinder64
March 3rd, 2010, 03:03 PM
As has been mentioned, the UK government has been looking into this (of sorts):

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8529015.stm

Maybe placing the blame of the idea purely on M$ might be a tad harsh - maybe they've just cottoned on to the idea?

ubunterooster
March 3rd, 2010, 03:03 PM
Can i has new internet?

Ubun-net™

clanky
March 3rd, 2010, 03:33 PM
Take a really rational look at this:

1. Malware is wrong, illegal a pain in the neck etc.

2. Although malware only really affects windows users at the moment it is something that everyone needs to be worried about, the idea that Linux is somehow completely immune to malware is ridiculous. If Linux ever becomes a truly mainstream desktop OS then there will be malware, and no amount of Ubuntu security updates will defeat it.

3. The only way to really stop malware will be to tackle it at source, not to try and make computers "unhackable", but to make hacking (I know it's not the right word, but hey) unnattractive.

4. To truly tackle the problem will require money, lots of it so logically those who use the internet most will benefit most from any advances made and they should be the ones paying for it.

ubunterooster
March 3rd, 2010, 03:39 PM
↑-5: money=computers more secure [we all know this]

seriously, it is war, but it should be: you install malware YOU pay for it

TuckLive
March 3rd, 2010, 04:25 PM
4. To truly tackle the problem will require money, lots of it so logically those who use the internet most will benefit most from any advances made and they should be the ones paying for it.

Are you suggesting that those who use the internet more should pay more? If that was the case large companies that obviously have more internet usage would just pass the cost down to common people.

clanky
March 3rd, 2010, 04:44 PM
Are you suggesting that those who use the internet more should pay more? If that was the case large companies that obviously have more internet usage would just pass the cost down to common people.

As it was, and is, and always shall be, amen.

TuckLive
March 3rd, 2010, 05:09 PM
I'd rather much prefer all software companies further educate users on how to prevent getting infected and update vulnerabilities more often.

Psumi
March 3rd, 2010, 05:13 PM
I'd rather much prefer all software companies further educate users on how to prevent getting infected and update vulnerabilities more often.

And consider other Operating Systems if they cannot do as such.

DubyBreaks
March 3rd, 2010, 05:35 PM
seriously, it is war, but it should be: you install malware YOU pay for it

Exactly, making everyone pay for for the rabid clicking, untrained and poor netiquette of some is NOT the answer.

Psumi
March 3rd, 2010, 05:36 PM
Exactly, making everyone pay for for the rabid clicking, untrained and poor netiquette of some is NOT the answer.

Still, your ISP can tell you're not using Windows nor MacOSX. if they see as such, they might charge anyway due to this.

clanky
March 3rd, 2010, 05:38 PM
I'd rather much prefer all software companies further educate users on how to prevent getting infected and update vulnerabilities more often.

The problem is that you can't stop malicious software by simply protecting against it any more than you can stop terrorism by building bigger walls, you have to deal with the source of the problem.

- Look at why people write malicious code and educate those who are willing to be educated.

- For those who are not willing to be educated work out ways to track them down and punish them, this will require both technological solutions and in some cases changes in the law to allow easier prosecution of those who write / distribute harmful code.

- End user security is important, but there will always be people who click on the "FreePornVirus.exe" or its equivalent and click install anyway when their security software tells them that it's a really bad idea, so the answer has to lie in dealing with the source and making the writing of malicious code seem like a bad idea.

DubyBreaks
March 3rd, 2010, 05:49 PM
Still, your ISP can tell you're not using Windows nor MacOSX. if they see as such, they might charge anyway due to this.

I'm just saying the system needs to be left alone. I agree it is a huge issue but, the users that are beind infected need to learn to avoid such ill fated internet habits, and paying to fix your own malware ridden PC is a pretty good way to learn how to be more careful. It is a shame that there are those out there who feel the need to corrupt others PC's and disease the system, but in the end, user responsibility and knowledge are better tools than throwing more money at the problem.

lykwydchykyn
March 3rd, 2010, 06:16 PM
The tax is only one side of what is being proposed:


Microsoft's security chief laid out several suggestions Tuesday, including a possible Internet usage tax to pay for the inspection and quarantine of machines.


The other side is what will be done with the tax revenue. Who exactly will be quarantining and inspecting the machines? The government? Private agencies contracted by the government? And according to what criteria and under what conditions and limitations?

This is the scary part to me.

TuckLive
March 3rd, 2010, 06:35 PM
and in some cases changes in the law to allow easier prosecution of those who write / distribute harmful code.

This is what I would like to see happen and the reason I don't believe in a tax. I'm already paying taxes to fund a federal agency that is supposed to deal with cyber crime as do other people in different countries. Going deeper into that subject would take forever for me to explain, but I agree with you that laws need to be changed and updated to reflect the 21st century.

Lightstar
March 3rd, 2010, 06:41 PM
The tax is only one side of what is being proposed:


The other side is what will be done with the tax revenue. Who exactly will be quarantining and inspecting the machines? The government? Private agencies contracted by the government? And according to what criteria and under what conditions and limitations?

This is the scary part to me.

That also means that tax would be paying them to intrude our computers.
Why the heck would we want that?

spoons
March 3rd, 2010, 07:01 PM
Why don't we just have a stupidity tax and those who play the lottery to win the big prize and people who click on porn links and get loads of viruses on their computers help pay for next gen broadband? ;)

Psumi
March 3rd, 2010, 07:05 PM
Why don't we just have a stupidity tax and those who play the lottery to win the big prize and people who click on porn links and get loads of viruses on their computers help pay for next gen broadband? ;)

Yeah, let's DO that!

Cabs21
March 3rd, 2010, 07:17 PM
I dont see a Tax free internet in the next 10 years. Everything is taxed in this world. It might even be a way to help increase revenue in the US budget. Think about it. In 2015 it is estimated that the US alone will have an annual usage of 1 ZB. Yes a Zettabyte of annual data from the US alone. ( http://www.discovery.org/a/4444 ) if the U.S. government were to tax 1 penny on to every GB of data from a user in 2015 then that would be 10 billion dollars in revenue. If they taxed 1 penny per KBs (which seems much more likely cause they want every penny they can get from you) then the added revenue would be 10 quadrillion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quadrillion). Yeah it would be 10,000,000,000,000,000 dollars in one year from the U.S. traffic ALONE! That is more money then 140 times the World GDP of 2009. Now this seems a little bit crazy doesn't it. Well do you think that will stop the governments of the world from taxing internet???? NO.

I wish I had 10 quadrillion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quadrillion) dollars. I would buy and sell this planet 100 times before I would even start care about how much money I had.

del_diablo
March 3rd, 2010, 07:25 PM
You pay for bandwith, the internet itself can and will NEVER be taxed ~

Zoot7
March 3rd, 2010, 07:28 PM
Leave it to a Microsoft employee to suggest this incredible idea. Please lets just soak the consumer some more because I think they have a few bucks left.
http://www.itworld.com/software/98522/microsofts-charney-suggests-net-tax-clean-computers
Why don't we just write secure software and environments ?
From a Practical standpoint, I really couldn't see Microsoft going down this road. With all the negative press Vista generated and having "rebooted" their image with 7, I'd say it's pretty certain they don't want yet again more negative press.

Just look at the overwhelmingly negative Public opinion that's held towards unions like the RIAA now.

audiomick
March 3rd, 2010, 07:29 PM
I dont see a Tax free internet in the next 10 years....from the U.S. traffic ALONE! That is more money then 140 times the World GDP of 2009...
I don't think it is possible to collect more money in Tax than the gross GDP...;)
Unfortunately though, you may be right about the inevitability of some form of "Internet Tax". I could see it being justified along the same lines as GST/VAT sales tax is justified.

Shpongle
March 3rd, 2010, 07:41 PM
were paying for our internet already, thats enough , it should be already free globally , i mean we have the means to do it, but the fat cats are greedy

i hope some day the world will be like this www.thevenusproject.com,
where money isnt everything. i mean we tax people for producing too much food products and yet there are people dying on the other side of the world, thats not right!. il leave it at that coz of CoC .

peace

Cabs21
March 3rd, 2010, 07:52 PM
I don't think it is possible to collect more money in Tax than the gross GDP...;)
Unfortunately though, you may be right about the inevitability of some form of "Internet Tax". I could see it being justified along the same lines as GST/VAT sales tax is justified.

i realize that this amount of money could never be taxed. even 1% of 10 quadrillion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quadrillion) dollars is more then 1.25 times the World GDP so obviously that is an insane amount. It would have to be something like 1 penny per GB or as high as 10 cents per GB to be even possible to tax your internet use. I definitely see it happening in the next 10 years even though I will truly hate that. P2P torrents will die, youTube will hemorrhage money in taxes until it shuts down. It could possible kill half of the web sites on the internet which would lower the total traffic until it evened out. Sadly it is more then likely going to happen and we must enjoy our tax free internet while we can. :D

Post Monkeh
March 3rd, 2010, 08:22 PM
As has been mentioned, the UK government has been looking into this (of sorts):

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8529015.stm

Maybe placing the blame of the idea purely on M$ might be a tad harsh - maybe they've just cottoned on to the idea?

nothing to do with this situation at all.
the uk broadband tax is meant to fund the rollout of high speed broadband, not fight malware.

Ceiber Boy
March 3rd, 2010, 08:45 PM
Their are two separate issues here 1st is capital (tax) 2nd is Internet security.

The Internet will never be made more secure by taxing its use. Governments want Internet tax not to make it a more secure place to be, but to simply generate revenue (because that is the purpose of their existence), and to have spying abilities. what would make it more secure is grass roots education, and effective implementation of existing safety procedures.

As with the poor, idiots will always be with us. We are all free to choose our actions but we are not free to choose the consequences. (i'll leave that train of thought their as it could become philosophical!)

nerdy_kid
March 3rd, 2010, 09:06 PM
i really hope i never meet that person. cause it might not go well for him :lolflag:

i have a better idea: howbout Micro$oft gets taxed for putting out the OS that allows nice innocent pcs to be turned into botnets LOL

and to enhance my idea even farther...i think all the money should go to me :)

Shpongle
March 3rd, 2010, 09:24 PM
Their are two separate issues here 1st is capital (tax) 2nd is Internet security.

The Internet will never be made more secure by taxing its use. Governments want Internet tax not to make it a more secure place to be, but to simply generate revenue (because that is the purpose of their existence),and to have spying abilities. what would make it more secure is grass roots education, and effective implementation of existing safety procedures.

As with the poor, idiots will always be with us. We are all free to choose our actions but we are not free to choose the consequences. (i'll leave that train of thought their as it could become philosophical!)

well said!

gsmanners
March 3rd, 2010, 10:38 PM
i have a better idea: howbout Micro$oft gets taxed for putting out the OS that allows nice innocent pcs to be turned into botnets LOL

You can't tax Microsoft. They're incorporated in Ireland. :P

:^o "Let's solve all our problems with money, because that's always solved problems before."

:D "Render unto Caesar, or in this case Caligula."

lisati
March 3rd, 2010, 10:47 PM
This does not surprise me.. a few years ago Bill Gates was suggesting a charge per email sent to stop spam.. something like 1-5 cents each email sent
I was thinking about this just before I came across this post..... if I had $1 for every spam email that I've received,I'd be happy. Make it $2 for every forged email address that I've encountered, and I'd be even happier. And it seems I get relatively little spam (or junk mail in general), compared to others I've read about.

The UK Government is already threatening a internet tax on all phone lines but have dropped the idea as we are having a general election. So the tax will be forced on us next year.
Aaargh! Memories of TV licenses, which New Zealand dropped a few years ago.

Still, your ISP can tell you're not using Windows nor MacOSX. if they see as such, they might charge anyway due to this.
Not sure how, unless they monitor the information browsers send out (which is easily "fixed" by means of a user agent switcher)

Post Monkeh
March 3rd, 2010, 10:53 PM
Not sure how, unless they monitor the information browsers send out (which is easily "fixed" by means of a user agent switcher)

http://www.thismachine.info/

RabbitWho
March 3rd, 2010, 10:58 PM
This does not surprise me.. a few years ago Bill Gates was suggesting a charge per email sent to stop spam.. something like 1-5 cents each email sent

Great idea.
80% of emails sent or spam.* The money could go to schools or public health or something like that. You know, all that stuff all you guys want but none of you are willing to pay for because the money is supposed to FALL FROM THE SKY.

*actual fact, here is the source: http://flowingdata.com/2010/03/01/the-state-of-the-Internet/


1 cent is a bit much, I couldn't afford that, but 1 cent per 100 would be reasonable and would stop spambots because they send out millions, or even if it didn't stop them at least some good would come out of it.

Ceiber Boy
March 3rd, 2010, 10:58 PM
http://www.thismachine.info/
how can you mask that or make it think it's a different OS?

lykwydchykyn
March 3rd, 2010, 11:06 PM
1 cent is a bit much, I couldn't afford that, but 1 cent per 100 would be reasonable and would stop spambots because they send out millions, or even if it didn't stop them at least some good would come out of it.

You do realize that spambots are not operating out of legitimate servers that could be accounted for and thus taxed. They generally run from compromised machines, servers with spoofed IP's, or from some other source that can't be traced down to an individual who can be charged.

Email is a pathetically simplistic protocol that can be manipulated endless ways. If we could reliably trace emails back to a user and/or IP, we could end the spam problem in a few days WITHOUT a tax on everyone else.

Post Monkeh
March 3rd, 2010, 11:10 PM
how can you mask that or make it think it's a different OS?

i don't know, but i'm sure it's possible

lisati
March 3rd, 2010, 11:11 PM
http://www.thismachine.info/

...most of which is available through the info that browsers transmit to servers.

Edit: notice that the web page says "Appear(s) to be"? The IP address is easily disguised if you go through a proxy, and the rest of the information is easily changed with the help of a user agent switcher.

phrostbyte
March 3rd, 2010, 11:26 PM
Sounds like a good idea. Except instead of taxing Internet users, how about we tax Microsoft? Makes a lot more sense. :p

ikt
March 3rd, 2010, 11:47 PM
Sounds like a good idea. Except instead of taxing Internet users, how about we tax Microsoft? Makes a lot more sense. :p

A tax for windows users, pretty good incentive to look at other options right there.

Kai69
March 3rd, 2010, 11:56 PM
Pirate copy W7 ultimate with cracks fly over 3rd world countrys and drop the cds let everyone install a copy in their pcs and run it.:tongue:
Anyway windows is already heavely taxed have you seen the prices of W7 its daylight robbery just to install a virus it should be free...

Austin25
March 4th, 2010, 12:04 AM
I hate Microsoft.
It's that simple.

Ceiber Boy
March 4th, 2010, 12:05 AM
how can you mask that or make it think it's a different OS?
THIS IS HOW

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/59

samjh
March 4th, 2010, 12:15 AM
I'm not surprised at the idea of an Internet tax. What I am surprised about is the idea that all Internet users should be taxed, when it is really only Microsoft Windows computers (and their users) that are most problematic.

markp1989
March 4th, 2010, 12:28 AM
**** that, i already paying vat on my service as it is, we have enought tos from the isps as it is, adding an internet tax, on emails or per gb/kb transmited is stupid, or to stop viruses (like it would help) i would be tempted to cancle my internet!

Frak
March 4th, 2010, 02:57 AM
Sounds like a good idea. Except instead of taxing Internet users, how about we tax Microsoft? Makes a lot more sense. :p
They're taxed now, I don't see where you're going with this.

23dornot23d
March 4th, 2010, 09:45 AM
If someone / anyone - anywhere takes your money without your approval that is theft ....

As far as I know .......... suggesting something is one thing .....
but implementing it is something else .....
_______________________________________________

I do not agree to people taking money from me ..... unless I am getting something in return for it .......

(So when you see the word TAX ..... especially in this instance replace it with Theft ......)

Reasons .......

a) I / we have not agreed to it ..... ( * nobody can do so on my/our behalf )

Not that we need a b) ,,,, but as clarification ,,,,,,

b) It gives us nothing back that we need or can be in any way useful to us .........

So it would be Theft ,,,,,, as we are already receiving what we have paid for ......
and if we do not agree to paying more for the same thing then it cannot be done
.... at least not legally.

Khakilang
March 4th, 2010, 09:58 AM
Wow 1. More reason Microsoft sucks!

Go Ubuntu
More reason to switch to Linux.:popcorn:

handy
March 5th, 2010, 02:15 AM
They should just add a tax to the cost of MS OSs as that is where the problem lies.

Taxing everyone, even though they don't use the security hole ridden MS OSs, is not fair.

Perhaps people will be able to claim a rebate if they don't use the MS products.

I'm sure MS would be happy about that. :)

ssj6akshat
March 5th, 2010, 05:28 AM
If microsoft wants us to pay tax for every virus they find let's tax them for every bug we find(Huge $$$)

Frak
March 5th, 2010, 05:37 AM
If microsoft wants us to pay tax for every virus they find let's tax them for every bug we find(Huge $$$)
Think if you taxed Linux for every bug you found. You'd be rolling in money.

ssj6akshat
March 5th, 2010, 06:42 AM
Think if you taxed Linux for every bug you found. You'd be rolling in money.
but linux isn't taxing us for insecurity that isn't even our fault.

Psumi
March 5th, 2010, 06:56 AM
but linux isn't taxing us for insecurity that isn't even our fault.

it's our fault if we don't report it.


More reason to switch to Linux.:popcorn:

Linux users also have to pay this Internet "tax."

handy
March 5th, 2010, 08:04 AM
...
Linux users also have to pay this Internet "tax."

If it does come to it, there could be a serious court battle over this one. Again, I don't think that MS will fair too well, when the facts are presented in court.

jayze
March 5th, 2010, 08:41 AM
The punter always votes with their feet!....and I'm pretty sure that as fast as the internet starts getting "toll boothed" then alternative nets will spring up....which is a shame since "united we stand but divided we fall"...maybe this is why they want to tax it ...and not so much for reasons of financial gain

markbuntu
March 7th, 2010, 04:28 AM
If this "tax" is to get rid of MS sponsored malware MS should pay it when others expend resources to fix their problems. With any luck this will push them out of the OS business and put an end to the crapware wars.

Frak
March 7th, 2010, 06:13 AM
If this "tax" is to get rid of MS sponsored malware MS should pay it when others expend resources to fix their problems. With any luck this will push them out of the OS business and put an end to the crapware wars.
I hate it when Microsoft puts out viruses that infect all of our computers. They need to stop it. Quit acting like meanie heads.

MooPi
March 7th, 2010, 06:26 AM
meanie heads.
I've got to use that sometime. Interchangeable with teenie, weanie and beanie heads.;)
Seriously though wouldn't it be much more simple to just unplug all Microsoft computers from the internet. Can you imagine the extra burst of speed without all that useless traffic.