Apple sues HTC over multitouch and other features

[sandyd]

Apple recently sued HTC over the multitouch capabilities of android
: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/03/technology/03patent.html?partner=rss&emc=rss

[tgalati4]

Google's slogan is "Do no evil."

Meet Mr Evil.

[phrostbyte]

I'm not sure how Apple managed to get such ridiculous patents granted.

[LowSky]

this link here goes over the patents in question

http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/02/apple-vs-htc-a-patent-breakdown/?s=t5


It makes me feel horrible to be an American when you can patent ones and zeros (aka: software)

[rajcan]

Good Lord!! Who the hey is Apple gonna sue next? Are they gonna sue the creators of Cairo Dock or AWN because they created dock applications for other operating systems? Why don't they sue Microsoft for creating the Zune to compete with the IPod? If I never believed in free software before I most certainly do now!

[JDShu]

this link here goes over the patents in question

http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/02/apple-vs-htc-a-patent-breakdown/?s=t5


It makes me feel horrible to be an American when you can patent ones and zeros (aka: software)

Thanks for the link! These patents (and I suspect, all software patents) should not have been granted. Non-obviousness is a requirement and many of these are far from that. Its so easy to inadvertently violate one of these patents. This does nothing for innovation :(

[swoll1980]

I posted this earlier, but that thread was closed. I thought Star Trek invented the touch screen interface for mobile devices.

[Ric_NYC]

Apple worse than Microsoft.

[katie-xx]

Its ever such a complicated business.. patents and copyright and licences.
The only people who seem to win are the lawyers.
Even Microsoft has been sued for patent infringement and has had to pay out millions of pounds.
Linux seems to have had a relatively safe passage so far but I really do wonder exactly what defence is available if Microsoft decided to take issue against Mono ?

Kate

[LinuxFanBoi]

In the world we live in today, people are running out of new ways to turn a profit, so everyone just sues everyone else. Reminds me of the collapse of another empire in human history.

In a lot of ways, an apocalyptic event that decimates 95% of the human race could be a good thing.

[Queue29]

It makes me feel horrible to be an American when you can patent ones and zeros (aka: software)

I can understand patenting source code, it's akin to patenting formulas for ingredients, or chemical compounds, etc. But allowing for patents on gestures I can make with my hand is ridiculous.

[katie-xx]

I can understand patenting source code, it's akin to patenting formulas for ingredients, or chemical compounds, etc. But allowing for patents on gestures I can make with my hand is ridiculous.

Agreed.
Our Company is absolutely paranoid that someone might steal our code.

Kate

[hobo14]

Here's some big news in the digital world; Apple is suing HTC for patent infringements, mainly for Android related stuff (so it could possibly be seen as another volley in the current G vs A stoush).

http://digitaldaily.allthingsd.com/20100302/apples-suits-against-htc-both-documents/

http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/02/apple-vs-htc-a-patent-breakdown/

Some of the patents mentioned cover things like:

- scrolling/panning direction/direction locking
- rearranging rows of icons when another is added
- gestures to unlock a screen...
- managing power in a digital camera device
- shutting off the screen while you hold the phone to your ear
- shutting down parts of a processor to conserve power
- displaying context sensitive menus (!)

This is all over the tech news at the moment, it's going to be interesting

[hobo14]

Sorry, duplicate thread.

Mods could you please merge this with http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1420172 ?

Thanks.

[overdrank]

Merged :)

[sandyd]

Here's some big news in the digital world; Apple is suing HTC for patent infringements, mainly for Android related stuff (so it could possibly be seen as another volley in the current G vs A stoush).

http://digitaldaily.allthingsd.com/20100302/apples-suits-against-htc-both-documents/

http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/02/apple-vs-htc-a-patent-breakdown/

Some of the patents mentioned cover things like:

- scrolling/panning direction/direction locking
- rearranging rows of icons when another is added
rediculus
- gestures to unlock a screen...
I can also do this on my samsung. another excuse.
- managing power in a digital camera device
- shutting off the screen while you hold the phone to your ear
- shutting down parts of a processor to conserve power
your kidding right?
intel did this in speedstep, even if it wasnt in a mobile phone....
- displaying context sensitive menus (!)
also rediculus
This is all over the tech news at the moment, it's going to be interesting
did they make all these claims just to get at android?

[hobo14]

did they make all these claims just to get at android?

Yes ;)

They aren't going after multitouch, btw.

[LinuxFanBoi]

I think all these law suits would stop if there were laws requiring the plaintiff to pay for the defendant's legal expenses. If the plaintiff wins, they get reimbursed for the defense expenses. You would see fewer law suits being filed as a means of attacking the other parties ability to remain solvent and competitive.

IMO thats what's going on here. The other guy has grown just enough to be a threat, but not big enough to sustain a long legal battle. Lets sue them just to put the squeeze on their bottom line so they can't afford to compete against us.

[amitabhishek]

Timing of this lawsuit is intriguing. Apple is sh!tting bricks and it knows that 2010 may very well be the year of Android devices. A $235 Android device now packs a 800Mhz processor whereas a $700 iPhone 3G S packs a 600Mhz processor :D and this is just the beginning of 2010! With every upgrade the OS is becoming more mature. They have reasons to worry.

This is a proxy lawsuit for Google BTW!

[Gallahhad]

Apple to sue the maker of fingers, after unknown force in the Universe refuses to comply with U.S. Patent Office.

[DubyBreaks]

Timing of this lawsuit is intriguing. Apple is sh!tting bricks and it knows that 2010 may very well be the year of Android devices. A $235 Android device now packs a 800Mhz processor whereas a $700 iPhone 3G S packs a 600Mhz processor :D and this is just the beginning of 2010! With every upgrade the OS is becoming more mature. They have reasons to worry.

Exactly, Apple has reason to deuce bricks over android phones. For the first time since the money guzzling iPhone came out there is a REAL threat of a iKiller. Multiple companies building android phones (rapidly), the apps are piling up insanely fast, the processors are getting faster, in true Linux style the OS is developing/evolving very quickly, and people are eating these things up.

Good for Android=D>, but it will definitely be interesting to see how this turns out for HTC.....and the rest of the software/computing world.

[kreggz]

Does WM7 have multitouch? If so I bet Apple won't go after Microsoft.

[amitabhishek]

apple to sue the maker of fingers, after unknown force in the universe refuses to comply with u.s. Patent office.

rofl

[Madspyman]

Not surprised Apple waited till the month the Nexus One gets released for Verizon to sue. At&t has some of the worst service in the US, Verizon's network is generally regarded as better, and the Nexus One is also a more advanced phone.

Better phone better network. Apple should have skipped the iPad in favor of an iPhone upgrade.

[Sashin]

Meego is also going to be splitting the market soon enough.

[3rdalbum]

I can't believe Apple was granted a patent for a "menu that changes its items based on the context". Isn't that pretty obvious? Well, actually, no - it wasn't obvious to Apple, they only implemented contextual menus in Mac OS 8, years after Windows had them.

I've written two or three small programs on Linux, and every single one of them has stepped on an Apple patent. It's the patent about a foreground program being the frontend, and it running another program as the backend, and the two programs communicating. How on earth was this patent ever granted?! It ONLY describes what Unix sysadmins have been doing since the 1960s!

[TuckLive]

Timing of this lawsuit is intriguing. Apple is sh!tting bricks and it knows that 2010 may very well be the year of Android devices. A $235 Android device now packs a 800Mhz processor whereas a $700 iPhone 3G S packs a 600Mhz processor :D and this is just the beginning of 2010! With every upgrade the OS is becoming more mature. They have reasons to worry.

This is a proxy lawsuit for Google BTW!

Yep. Remember the timeframe here:

1. Eric Schmidt leaves Apple board
2. Google creates Nexus One phone
3. Apple asks Google to not put multitouch in Nexus One phone
4. Google puts multitouch in phone
5. Apple goes to war
6. WW3 ;)

[oobuntoo]

Apple is trying very hard to make me hate it.

[Chronon]

I can't believe Apple was granted a patent for a "menu that changes its items based on the context". Isn't that pretty obvious? Well, actually, no - it wasn't obvious to Apple, they only implemented contextual menus in Mac OS 8, years after Windows had them.

I've written two or three small programs on Linux, and every single one of them has stepped on an Apple patent. It's the patent about a foreground program being the frontend, and it running another program as the backend, and the two programs communicating. How on earth was this patent ever granted?! It ONLY describes what Unix sysadmins have been doing since the 1960s!

Very good questions. If there is any justice these patents will be struck down for attempting to patent other people's prior art.

[frup]

Merely another reason never for me to give them my business.

[Ozor Mox]

I posted this yesterday but the thread disappeared for some reason:

Apple are such a horrid company.


“We think competition is healthy, but competitors should create their own original technology, not steal ours.”

You freakin' what?! Isn't that a lithium ion battery your entirely unique iPhone is using? Isn't that an LCD touchscreen? Isn't that a radio antenna it has built in? And so on and so on...

This is not how the real world works. The US really does have to get rid of software patents.

[DubyBreaks]

This is not how the real world works. The US really does have to get rid of software patents.

Seriously, this is getting ridiculous.

[hobo14]

I posted this yesterday but the thread disappeared for some reason:

Apple are such a horrid company.



You freakin' what?! Isn't that a lithium ion battery your entirely unique iPhone is using? Isn't that an LCD touchscreen? Isn't that a radio antenna it has built in? And so on and so on...

This is not how the real world works. The US really does have to get rid of software patents.

I really dislike some of Apple's behaviour too (mostly Psystar related) and I think this HTC issue is absurd, but I would like to see them get bigger at the expense of MS.

Those examples you give here are all invalid, because Apple pay for those things (and that's what will happen when this lawsuit is finally over, it's just a matter of determining how much HTC will have to pay, and what for)

[fatality_uk]

Meh!! Same old, same old. It wont change. Eventually, patents will meet themselves coming back and the world will implode.

[Ozor Mox]

I really dislike some of Apple's behaviour too (mostly Psystar related) and I think this HTC issue is absurd, but I would like to see them get bigger at the expense of MS.

Those examples you give here are all invalid, because Apple pay for those things (and that's what will happen when this lawsuit is finally over, it's just a matter of determining how much HTC will have to pay, and what for)

I know Apple are entitled to use that technology, I was more arguing with Jobs' statement that competitors should "create their own technology, not steal ours". It's just astonishingly hypocritical, since I'm sure Apple have plenty of bits of technology in the iPhone that they've "borrowed" from others.

The main point of this anyway is why the hell were Apple granted those patents in the first place. They are totally stupid and some are obvious prior art.

[amitabhishek]

It's just astonishingly hypocritical, since I'm sure Apple have plenty of bits of technology in the iPhone that they've "borrowed" from others.

Absolutely...

If I remember correctly both HTC's Touch and First generation iPhone debuted in June 2007. There were striking similarity between the two devices. Now who should sue whom; considering the secrecy in which iPhone was designed?!!!

[Queue29]

The main point of this anyway is why the hell were Apple granted those patents in the first place. They are totally stupid and some are obvious prior art.

I could not possibly agree more.

Here's to hoping that HTC's, Google's, Nokia's, and even MS's lawyers all team up and get these patents thrown out.

If Apple can patent gestures used to browse a web page I should be able to patent the motion used to jack off, shouldn't I?

[3rdalbum]

The big question is, does HTC hold any patents that Apple wants access to? There's a springloaded clamshell mobile phone design, and there's a magnetic stylus for capacitive touchscreens. That last one is a clue - Apple wants the magnetic stylus for the iPad, presumably so you can write or draw on it, ala Apple Newton.

Somebody earlier said "I hope Apple wins, so it can gain market share at Microsoft's expense". No... because all these patents are at Google's and HTC's expense, and they put Free Software under threat too.

[whiskeylover]

Apple is trying very hard to make me hate it.


Apple will have to try very hard to make me NOT hate it.

[Johnsie]

Apple are the new AOL

[wildman4god]

The amount of legal battles going on in the tech world is getting ridiculous I actually just did a post about this on my blog (http://techgeneral.wordpress.com/2010/03/03/teething-problems/) if you want to check it out.

P.S. I'm not sure if this qualifies as spam, if it is I apologize, and would ask people for advice on how to get my blog noticed.

[hobo14]

I know Apple are entitled to use that technology, I was more arguing with Jobs' statement that competitors should "create their own technology, not steal ours". It's just astonishingly hypocritical, since I'm sure Apple have plenty of bits of technology in the iPhone that they've "borrowed" from others.

The main point of this anyway is why the hell were Apple granted those patents in the first place. They are totally stupid and some are obvious prior art.
I guess he probably assumed "...or pay for it." would be tacked on the end by default ;)


Somebody earlier said "I hope Apple wins, so it can gain market share at Microsoft's expense". No... because all these patents are at Google's and HTC's expense, and they put Free Software under threat too.
If you mean me, I most certainly did NOT say that.
I personally hope these claims get thrown out and Apple is forced to pay HTC's legal costs.

Yes, I would like to see more Apple users instead of MS users, up to the point they are even, and no further.
Even better though would be more Google or Linux users at the expense of MS users (up to the point where they are even)
Best of all would be to see MS, Linux distros, and Apple OSes all control an equal desktop market share (or something along these lines).
Competition is by far the best thing consumers can hope for.

I'm with the EU as far as software patents go.

[Lightstar]

alot of people will anything for money.

[mamamia88]

apple needs to realize that you can't stop people from trying to emulate good ideas

[ElSlunko]

iSue coming to a product near you!

[HappinessNow]

Apple simply being Apple, nothing new here but this screams of severe desperation on Apple's part!

[HappinessNow]

Apple simply being Apple, nothing new here but this screams of severe desperation on Apple's part!

I don't think Apple has a leg to stand on; here's why:

"Did they include the letter "i" in anything?"

also here is the list of supposedly exclusive to Apple patents:


Apple’s suit involves a bevy of patents ranging from user interface features such as scrolling and scaling to touch screen methods to power consumption to graphics.

The laundry list:

‘331 Patent, entitled “Time-Based, Non-Constant Translation Of User Interface Objects Between States”
‘949 Patent, entitled “Touch Screen Device, Method, And Graphical User Interface For Determining Commands By Applying Heuristics”
‘849 Patent, entitled “Unlocking A Device By Performing Gestures On An Unlock Image”
‘381 Patent, entitled “List Scrolling And Document Translation, Scaling, And Rotation On A Touch-Screen Display”
‘726 Patent, entitled “System And Method For Managing Power Conditions Within A Digital Camera Device”
‘076 Patent, entitled “Automated Response To And Sensing Of User Activity In Portable Devices”
‘105 Patent, entitled “GMSK Signal Processors For Improved Communications Capacity And Quality”
‘453 Patent, entitled “Conserving Power By Reducing Voltage Supplied To An Instruction-Processing Portion Of A Processor”
‘599 Patent, entitled “Object-Oriented Graphic System”
‘354 Patent, entitled “Object-Oriented Event Notification System With Listener Registration Of Both Interests And Methods”
http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/?p=31427&tag=content;wrapper

[Khakilang]

Apple sue HTC, Microsoft sue Google... Who will sue who next. I believe they just want to dominate the market so that no one can compete with them. Not like in Linux world where people can share and use for free.

[HappinessNow]

Apple Computer, Inc. v. Microsoft Corporation, 35 F.3d 1435 (9th Cir. 1994) was a copyright infringement lawsuit in which Apple Computer, Inc. (now Apple Inc.) sought to prevent Microsoft Corporation and Hewlett-Packard from using visual graphical user interface (GUI) elements that were similar to those in Apple's Lisa and Macintosh operating systems. The court ruled that, "Apple cannot get patent-like protection for the idea of a graphical user interface, or the idea of a desktop metaphor [under copyright law]..."[1] Because Mac's GUI was heavily based on unlicensed GUI developed before by Xerox, in the midst of the Apple v. Microsoft lawsuit, Xerox also sued Apple on the same grounds.[2] The lawsuit was dismissed because Xerox had waited too long to file suit, and the statute of limitations had expired. Apple lost all claims in the suit except for the ruling that the trash can icon and file folder icons from Hewlett-Packard's NewWave windows application were infringing. The lawsuit was filed in 1988 and lasted four years; the decision was affirmed on appeal in 1994[1], and Apple's appeal to the U.S. Supreme Court was denied.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Computer,_Inc._v._Microsoft_Corporation

How many times will Apple try to resubmit this lawsuit and waste the tax payers money? The people of the US should sue Apple for frivolous lawsuits.

[Methuselah]

I don't feel this will end well....and not far Apple.

[DubyBreaks]

How many times will Apple try to resubmit this lawsuit and waste the tax payers money? The people of the US should sue Apple for frivolous lawsuits.

Right on. I'm down.