An idea...Ubuntu Plus!

[MaZiNgA]

Hey Ubuntuers! Just an hour ago I had an idea which I'd like to share with you!
Since 99% of us use non-free softwware (take mp3 playback for example), and following down all instructions at ubuntuguide.org ("grab this *.bin and sh *.bin at console then blah blah" :D) seems to take some time, what if we created an application (in GTK environment) to execute some scripts to download most common non-free software such as
*java
*video drivers (+ glx-config thing or equivalent for ATi)
*skype
*(add whatever you want!)
/---------------------------------\
| Welcome to |
| Ubuntu Plus! |

**Please wait while Ubuntu Plus! downloads and installs the latest
non-free software to your computer**
**Remember! Tux says: "Non-free is NOT good!"** :pp

What do you think? It's only an idea...

[Kokosnuss]

Great idea! =D>
If it is possible...

[macewan]

that does sound like a cool idea

[BWF89]

It would never work because Debian developers believe non-free software is the devil.

[oddabe19]

Actually, i think someone started this back in November, October or so....

But i havent heard much about it.

[Quest-Master]

I can create a beautiful program with a full-blown GUI and everything if you guys want me to. I've been thinking about doing it for a while.

However, I don't know if I would be held responsible for anything like breaking copyrights or such. I wouldn't want to risk having the FBI coming to my door. :P

[BWF89]

and following down all instructions at ubuntuguide.org ("grab this *.bin and sh *.bin at console then blah blah" )
If that is the case it means that Ubuntu needs some work. In a modern desktop OS you should be able to install any program without needing an instruction manual for each one.

[tim1]

I can create a beautiful program with a full-blown GUI and everything if you guys want me to. I've been thinking about doing it for a while.

However, I don't know if I would be held responsible for anything like breaking copyrights or such. I wouldn't want to risk having the FBI coming to my door. :P

Amazing, I just started doing some mockups with glade yesterday having the same idea ...

I think it's in no way a legal problem because you can use all the software (mp3, java) for free as a home user. So if you make some license agreement the user has to check, including the specific license agreement from the software itself (like java has one), it should be no problem.

greets, tim

[jdong]

It's not really Debian/Ubuntu's fault that these aren't included.. There are actually legal issues here!

[Titeuf]

But when you add a program that automatically downloads the non-free stuff like mp3 codecs and so, are they any legal issues there ?
And how come Gentoo doesn't have any problems there ?

[BWF89]

Since were on the subject. Why should Linux users be subjected to use propriatory software to begin with? We allready have a free PDF reader/creator program. Why can't we have a free Macromedia Flash program? And a free shockwave program? Then we could legally ship distrobutions with everything a user would need to fully enjoy the internet.

[Titeuf]

Since were on the subject. Why should Linux users be subjected to use propriatory software to begin with? We allready have a free PDF reader/creator program. Why can't we have a free Macromedia Flash program? And a free shockwave program? Then we could legally ship distrobutions with everything a user would need to fully enjoy the internet.
There's a free flash alternative being made: GPLFlash (http://gplflash.sourceforge.net/)
I haven't tried it, but I'm sure it can't play all flash files, like the original flash plugin.

[BWF89]

There's a free flash alternative being made: GPLFlash (http://gplflash.sourceforge.net/)
I haven't tried it, but I'm sure it can't play all flash files, like the original flash plugin.
GNU/Hurd couldn't do much when it first came out either but it got better over time.

EDIT: Actually it still can't do all that much. That's why Linus Torvalds replaced The HURD with Linux.

[DJ_Max]

But when you add a program that automatically downloads the non-free stuff like mp3 codecs and so, are they any legal issues there ?
And how come Gentoo doesn't have any problems there ?
If you've used Gentoo, you'll know they have the same issues. One example is java, doing emerge sun-jdk-1.4.1, will tell you that you need to download the tarballs manually, due to Sun's "online click-wrap" license.

MaZiNgA, I like your idea, and oddly I had the same idea. :idea: I'm here if you wanna get something started.

[Titeuf]

If you've used Gentoo, you'll know they have the same issues. One example is java, doing emerge sun-jdk-1.4.1, will tell you that you need to download the tarballs manually, due to Sun's "online click-wrap" license.

MaZiNgA, I like your idea, and oddly I had the same idea. :idea: I'm here if you wanna get something started.
Yes, they are a few exceptions, but I was talking more about mp3, wmv, ... If for instance I emerge mplayer, it can play any files without problems, and I didn't have to manually download some files.

[DJ_Max]

Yes, they are a few exceptions, but I was talking more about mp3, wmv, ... If for instance I emerge mplayer, it can play any files without problems, and I didn't have to manually download some files.
ahh, ok. But there's a respoirtory with the .deb files you need for mplayer. But I see what you're saying.

[rapala61]

I really think Ubuntu needs to be polished a bit more, by far is one of the best distros i have ever used , but i feel it lacks media support, i mean, i dont even expect it to be installed cuz i know about the legal issues , but is really that hard to make a script so the user can agree with the non-free app agreement and stuff...?? and once agreed u would have a web browser full capable of displaying any media web content, or at least the mos common... quicktime , mp3 , movies , flash .... etc, that would make ubuntu not just perfect to recommend to almost anyone, even those who are addicted to Windows, but it would make it even better since it would make it easier for the user to make those plugins available... so far Mepis is the only one i've seen that includes all that media support by default , and although i know that for legal issues ubuntu team cant do that , the feeling of seeing movies and stuff just work on mozilla was priceless ;) .

[jdong]

But when you add a program that automatically downloads the non-free stuff like mp3 codecs and so, are they any legal issues there ?
And how come Gentoo doesn't have any problems there ?

Yep, that's definitely a great possibility. For Hoary Extras, I'll try this approach, though I have to read up on the subject!

[Titeuf]

Yep, that's definitely a great possibility. For Hoary Extras, I'll try this approach, though I have to read up on the subject!
Isn't a small script that add servers to sources.list and then apt-get all the needed stuff a good idea ?

[MaZiNgA]

Great! I liked the positive response! I'm willing to help too (though I have limited knowledge of programming...)! I'll pm you guys in a week- when my exams are finished- so we can get things started!

I thought about the legal part too but I think since we're already providing info on how to get this stuff then making some software on this changes nothing... ;)

[BWF89]

I really think Ubuntu needs to be polished a bit more, by far is one of the best distros i have ever used , but i feel it lacks media support, i mean, i dont even expect it to be installed cuz i know about the legal issues , but is really that hard to make a script so the user can agree with the non-free app agreement and stuff...?? and once agreed u would have a web browser full capable of displaying any media web content, or at least the mos common... quicktime , mp3 , movies , flash .... etc, that would make ubuntu not just perfect to recommend to almost anyone, even those who are addicted to Windows, but it would make it even better since it would make it easier for the user to make those plugins available... so far Mepis is the only one i've seen that includes all that media support by default , and although i know that for legal issues ubuntu team cant do that , the feeling of seeing movies and stuff just work on mozilla was priceless ;) .
That's a good idea. Especially because alot of media formats such as MPEG movies don't have the plugin warning thing on the top of the page asking if you want to install it like it does when you want to view a flash movie.

[miho]

I don't like the idea of Ubuntu Plus! at all. That just makes Ubuntu one step closer to Click N' Run.

[BWF89]

I don't like the idea of Ubuntu Plus! at all. That just makes Ubuntu one step closer to Click N' Run.
What are you talking about? Click-N-Run is the role model of what every distro should be like.

[miho]

What are you talking about? Click-N-Run is the role model of what every distro should be like.
I'm sorry, I should have put it in another way since people like picking every flaw in a post and exploiting it. A major way of downloading things is using Click N' Run on Linspire which is usually not free. Excuse me for not editing my first post in this thread.

[rapala61]

I'm sorry, I should have put it in another way since people like picking every flaw in a post and exploiting it. A major way of downloading things is using Click N' Run on Linspire which is usually not free. Excuse me for not editing my first post in this thread.

Lets get real, Getting dirty in the command line is fun , i have fun doing it, BUT this should be somehow an alternative , u get what im saying.. just in case we want to do some especific task , but very basic things like plugins shouldnt require downloading developer packages and compiling mplayer + mplayer-plugin.. i think this kind of rough edges are the ones that are keeping a really big number of people from trying linux. not that it bothers me tho...

[TravisNewman]

It would never work because Debian developers believe non-free software is the devil.
Yeah... you're right... but... the point is, the people working on this don't have to be Debian developers do they? Not at all.

[miho]

Yes, installing packages like flash plugins, and java plugins are a pain in the ass. We shouldn't have to use command line for everything, but turning Linux into another Windows fiasco or Click N' Run fiasco is not what Linux needs. Wouldn't it be better for a stand alone developing team to create such a program for multiple Linux distributions instead of just one?
If we simply let a program like Ubuntu Plus! develop it won't be long until they charge for the service to make sure certain things are properly taken care of in the program. That's happened before, and that's not what Ubuntu or Linux needs. 8-[

[Jad]

Well, Why we don't have something like Firefox plugin installer?
if you visits a flash based web site, and you don't have it installed yet, their plugin manager will popup in a bar in the top, when you click to install it, it will display the vendor license, next next, you are done.
I think what we need is, Wizard to list all of this non-free ( in both meaning )
softwares and display each vendor license, then install it.

it would be COooool! idea

[miho]

Well, Why we don't have something like Firefox plugin installer?
if you visits a flash based web site, and you don't have it installed yet, their plugin manager will popup in a bar in the top, when you click to install it, it will display the vendor license, next next, you are done.
I think what we need is, Wizard to list all of this non-free ( in both meaning )
softwares and display each vendor license, then install it.

it would be COooool! idea
Wouldn't the people who wrote the programs want to be paid?(Referring to the programs you usually pay for).

[rapala61]

Yes, installing packages like flash plugins, and java plugins are a pain in the ass. We shouldn't have to use command line for everything, but turning Linux into another Windows fiasco or Click N' Run fiasco is not what Linux needs. Wouldn't it be better for a stand alone developing team to create such a program for multiple Linux distributions instead of just one?
If we simply let a program like Ubuntu Plus! develop it won't be long until they charge for the service to make sure certain things are properly taken care of in the program. That's happened before, and that's not what Ubuntu or Linux needs. 8-[

I get u man... im with u we shouldnt let Ubuntu/Linux become Lindows but my point is more towards usability more than the pack itself, my suggestion is just that it would be waaay better if such feature were present in Ubuntu, I bet my socks that if we did that , we had some hundreds+ people switching to Ubuntu this release ... i mean, its not to make it like windows, its about to give the usability , choice and power that windows lacks...
its about making it better for every1 :D

[Jad]

You don't have to pay for Macromedia in order to get Flash player installed
You don't have to pay for SkyPe in order to download/use their software
You don't have to pay for Sun in order to download and use their JRE

They didn't include thos software and other similar software because of the different licenses. not because they are Paid software.

I'll quote from What I have said before


Wizard to list all of this non-free ( in both meaning ) softwares and display each vendor license, then install it.


The Free Software Definition
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html

[ankitmalik]

Well I kinda posted the same idea a few weeks ago but it never took flight.

hope it works dis time :D

all the best.

I will prefer a window full of icons syaing install this or that and when I click an icon a druid/wizard guiding me thru the installation asking me only VERY SIMPLE questions!

[MaZiNgA]

You don't have to worry about paying or something, this project will be run through GPL :D
Hmm "Wizard vs Component Choice" that's a debate :p
On the one hand, Wizard is much easier for newbies..
But on the other hand, Component Choise adds flexibility..We'll see

[jdong]

Isn't a small script that add servers to sources.list and then apt-get all the needed stuff a good idea ?

Search for "WAIH" (Warty After-install Helper). The idea's already been implemented.

I'm talking about other binaries (i.e. Java) where a ready-to-use .deb isn't available, but a wrapper fetch-on-the-fly system is easy to implement.


With .deb's it seems more difficult than with Gentoo ebuilds, partially because Debs need to have a list of installed files before the fetching phase, while with Gentoo ebuilds, you modify a build environment, and those changes get recorded/merged into your actual filesytem.

[daniels]

Guys, you do really, really need to think about the legal implications. While it's nice to give everyone working video playback out of the box (really, really nice), less nice is a lawsuit arriving. There are very legitimate legal issues here, and not just patents. The codecs you are distributing are files which would you would not have a valid licence to distribute (in fact, I'd expect that the licence would explicitly preclude this sort of thing), which is flat-out illegal.

[rapala61]

Guys, you do really, really need to think about the legal implications. While it's nice to give everyone working video playback out of the box (really, really nice), less nice is a lawsuit arriving. There are very legitimate legal issues here, and not just patents. The codecs you are distributing are files which would you would not have a valid licence to distribute (in fact, I'd expect that the licence would explicitly preclude this sort of thing), which is flat-out illegal.

mm... yeah, we have been discusing that and all agree with that, what me and others have suggested as a workaround is to create a scritp which would download the pluging from the net and install/configure( read the license and agree with it ) on the system , that simple ( well i guess) not to distribute them as part of the system as u said cuz we know of the problm, i still think is a good idea.. my little brother keeps asking me when im gonna let him watch the trailers of his favorite games, c&c generals and movies.. son of the mask ... and i have to be telling him that im gonna work on that.. yeah right

[ctt1wbw]

If that is the case it means that Ubuntu needs some work. In a modern desktop OS you should be able to install any program without needing an instruction manual for each one.


Sounds like he's talking about OS X. :)

[ctt1wbw]

Guys, you do really, really need to think about the legal implications. While it's nice to give everyone working video playback out of the box (really, really nice), less nice is a lawsuit arriving. There are very legitimate legal issues here, and not just patents. The codecs you are distributing are files which would you would not have a valid licence to distribute (in fact, I'd expect that the licence would explicitly preclude this sort of thing), which is flat-out illegal.


Working video playback out of the box is illegal? Someone better tell Microsoft and Apple that. Plus every manufacturere of dvd players in the world.

[KiwiNZ]

daniels is correct .
And yes unless you pay to licence the software and gain permissions to distribute and that would include scripts to download would attract lawsuits.

Microsoft and Apple and like have such agreements in place to allow their inclusion in their OS's