Arguing with someone on another forum about Linux (specifically Ubuntu) vs Windows

[IceDoE]

The funny thing is I'm not a particularly advanced user, but I know alot of what this guy says is straight bull, and its getting a bit annoying to keep telling him he is wrong and to try and make sure other readers of the forum aren't taking his word on it.

Anyway here is how it started:
Poster A: I'd get Windows 7 if it didn't cost hundreds.
Poster (windows): You could buy a win 7 ultimate key on eBay for like, $20
Me: Or you could get ANY version of ANY GNU/linux OS, which are much better, for free. They are also more efficient and run on just about anything (even microwaves).
Poster (windows): that is very, very bad advice.

And then argument ensues, including him saying that you can't run something like ubuntu out of the box, you have to go through a bunch of suff first and fix stuff to get it to actually work. Windows works out of the box great for everyone. Then saying that RAM is used better in Windows and Video editing can't be done in Ubuntu, etc etc.

Supposedly this guy has used ubuntu, but has gotten frustrated because his wireless card doesn't work. Now, for myself, I recently popped a wifi card in my desktop and it started working without me doing anything, and it was an obscure company card (U.S. Robotics).

And I'm sure all of us know plenty of not tech savvy people that have tried Ubuntu and found it much easier to use and do stuff than windows.

So what am I ranting on all this for? I'm getting a bit tired sorting through the ******** over and over and being the only one (small forum), and I'm honestly not as knowledgeable as many of you. Anyone wanna lend some help?

Note: the funniest part of the discussion was that his original argument was that linux is way TOO GOOD for the average user.

[acapella_eunuch@]

The funny thing is I'm not a particularly advanced user, but I know alot of what this guy says is straight bull, and its getting a bit annoying to keep telling him he is wrong and to try and make sure other readers of the forum aren't taking his word on it.

Anyway here is how it started:
Poster A: I'd get Windows 7 if it didn't cost hundreds.
Poster (windows): You could buy a win 7 ultimate key on eBay for like, $20
Me: Or you could get ANY version of ANY GNU/linux OS, which are much better, for free. They are also more efficient and run on just about anything (even microwaves).
Poster (windows): that is very, very bad advice.

And then argument ensues, including him saying that you can't run something like ubuntu out of the box, you have to go through a bunch of suff first and fix stuff to get it to actually work. Windows works out of the box great for everyone. Then saying that RAM is used better in Windows and Video editing can't be done in Ubuntu, etc etc.

Supposedly this guy has used ubuntu, but has gotten frustrated because his wireless card doesn't work. Now, for myself, I recently popped a wifi card in my desktop and it started working without me doing anything, and it was an obscure company card (U.S. Robotics).

And I'm sure all of us know plenty of not tech savvy people that have tried Ubuntu and found it much easier to use and do stuff than windows.

So what am I ranting on all this for? I'm getting a bit tired sorting through the ******** over and over and being the only one (small forum), and I'm honestly not as knowledgeable as many of you. Anyone wanna lend some help?

Note: the funniest part of the discussion was that his original argument was that linux is way TOO GOOD for the average user.

the other poster has a point.

[Tibuda]

let him use whatever works for him.

[chillicampari]

So what am I ranting on all this for? I'm getting a bit tired sorting through the ******** over and over and being the only one (small forum), and I'm honestly not as knowledgeable as many of you. Anyone wanna lend some help?

Are you asking us to invade another forum because the discussion isn't going the way you want it to? Seriously?

[Grifulkin]

The funny thing is I'm not a particularly advanced user, but I know alot of what this guy says is straight bull, and its getting a bit annoying to keep telling him he is wrong and to try and make sure other readers of the forum aren't taking his word on it.

Anyway here is how it started:
Poster A: I'd get Windows 7 if it didn't cost hundreds.
Poster (windows): You could buy a win 7 ultimate key on eBay for like, $20
Me: Or you could get ANY version of ANY GNU/linux OS, which are much better, for free. They are also more efficient and run on just about anything (even microwaves).
Poster (windows): that is very, very bad advice.

And then argument ensues, including him saying that you can't run something like ubuntu out of the box, you have to go through a bunch of suff first and fix stuff to get it to actually work. Windows works out of the box great for everyone. Then saying that RAM is used better in Windows and Video editing can't be done in Ubuntu, etc etc.

Supposedly this guy has used ubuntu, but has gotten frustrated because his wireless card doesn't work. Now, for myself, I recently popped a wifi card in my desktop and it started working without me doing anything, and it was an obscure company card (U.S. Robotics).

And I'm sure all of us know plenty of not tech savvy people that have tried Ubuntu and found it much easier to use and do stuff than windows.

So what am I ranting on all this for? I'm getting a bit tired sorting through the ******** over and over and being the only one (small forum), and I'm honestly not as knowledgeable as many of you. Anyone wanna lend some help?

Note: the funniest part of the discussion was that his original argument was that linux is way TOO GOOD for the average user.

Linux is not better than Windows, just like Windows isn't better than Linux it's what people prefer, deal with it.

[Post Monkeh]

which are much better, for free. They are also more efficient and run on just about anything (even microwaves).

that really is pretty bad advice. you're building it up for a fall.

[nothingspecial]

If you don`t know what you`re doing and something like wireless or sound doesn`t work out of the box then linux is a bloody nightmare.

Unless you enjoy "geeking around" as my better half describes it.

[ctrlmd]

maybe he had bad experience with linux on his computer
anyway don't try to convince someone who's already convinced about what he want.

[swoll1980]

Wireless support is a big problem for Linux. It has nothing to do with the company(US Robotics)that makes the card, but with the chip set inside the card. His card may have used an incompatible chip set. Which would have given him a bad taste in his mouth. This bad taste is often a result of a Linux zealot telling him it was the second coming of Christ, only for him to find out it has compatibility issues.

[xpod]

The funny thing is I'm not a particularly advanced user, but I know alot of what this guy says is straight bull, and its getting a bit annoying to keep telling him he is wrong and to try and make sure other readers of the forum aren't taking his word on it.

Anyway here is how it started:
Poster A: I'd get Windows 7 if it didn't cost hundreds.
Poster (windows): You could buy a win 7 ultimate key on eBay for like, $20
Me: Or you could get ANY version of ANY GNU/linux OS, which are much better, for free. They are also more efficient and run on just about anything (even microwaves).
Poster (windows): that is very, very bad advice.

And then argument ensues, including him saying that you can't run something like ubuntu out of the box, you have to go through a bunch of suff first and fix stuff to get it to actually work. Windows works out of the box great for everyone. Then saying that RAM is used better in Windows and Video editing can't be done in Ubuntu, etc etc.

Supposedly this guy has used ubuntu, but has gotten frustrated because his wireless card doesn't work. Now, for myself, I recently popped a wifi card in my desktop and it started working without me doing anything, and it was an obscure company card (U.S. Robotics).

And I'm sure all of us know plenty of not tech savvy people that have tried Ubuntu and found it much easier to use and do stuff than windows.

So what am I ranting on all this for? I'm getting a bit tired sorting through the ******** over and over and being the only one (small forum), and I'm honestly not as knowledgeable as many of you. Anyone wanna lend some help?

Note: the funniest part of the discussion was that his original argument was that linux is way TOO GOOD for the average user.

Without meaning to shoot you down any more than has already been done wouldn`t you be better off helping someone on here who actually wants to be converted rather than waste your time on some Windows based forum with someone who obviously doesn`t want to be converted?
Just a thought.;)

[koshatnik]

die thread die.

[Sporkman]

die thread die.

German for:

the thread the

[howlingmadhowie]

you know, stallman has a point here.

basically you can argue about which operating system supports more hardware or which operating system is easier to use or is cheaper or whatever, but you can't argue about which operating system respects your freedom more. microsoft just isn't in that game, and that's what gnu/linux, ubuntu and free software in general are about.

now some people don't value their freedom. as long as they don't inconvenience those that do, this can remain their problem.

[AllRadioisDead]

Oh, yay. Another my religion is better than your religion debate.
It's an operating system. Get over it.

Die thread, die.

[swoll1980]

you know, stallman has a point here.

basically you can argue about which operating system supports more hardware

You can't argue about which one supports more hardware. Well you could argue about anything I guess, but it would be like arguing about which is bigger the Earth, or the Sun.

[DeadSuperHero]

in b4 thread close.

Seriously, live and let live. Some people like using both Linux AND Windows!

[howlingmadhowie]

You can't argue about which one supports more hardware. Well you could argue about anything I guess, but it would be like arguing about which is bigger the Earth, or the Sun.

well, before adding 3rd party drivers, linux supports more hardware. however, for consumer pcs, windows is more often targeted for 3rd party driver support.

seems like something you could argue about.

[Frak]

inb4threadclose

Live and let live. If they want to use Windows, LET THEM USE WINDOWS. Don't shove Linux down their throat.

[howlingmadhowie]

inb4threadclose

Live and let live. If they want to use Windows, LET THEM USE WINDOWS. Don't shove Linux down their throat.

riiiiight.

i'm not usually sarcastic, but here goes ...

because
1/ posting on an internet forum would somehow make it impossible for someone else to use windows anymore.
and
2/ obviously there is no middle ground between not mentioning gnu/linux at all and shoving it down people's throats.

[swoll1980]

riiiiight.

i'm not usually sarcastic, but here goes ...

because
1/ posting on an internet forum would somehow make it impossible for someone else to use windows anymore.
and
2/ obviously there is no middle ground between not mentioning gnu/linux at all and shoving it down people's throats.

Howie make a good point. Often times if someone mentions Linux, or defends some kind of fud being spread about it, all the sudden they're some kind of fan boy.

[RiceMonster]

Some people like using both Linux AND Windows!

Blasphemy!

[Frak]

Howie make a good point. Often times if someone mentions Linux, or defends some kind of fud being spread about it, all the sudden they're some kind of fan boy.
Often times if someone mentions Windows, or defends some kind of fud being spread about it, all the sudden they're labeled some kind of Microsoft Employee.

It happens all_the_time.

[IceDoE]

Its not actually a Windows based forum, its a tech forum inside an anime fan forum.

Anyway, he's not suggesting to use what works for you, he's suggesting Windows works better for everyone, and that there will always be problems with peripherals and video cards and you have to be an expert to use it. This is really not the case that I've ever seen in the last year or two, and I've seen it used out of the box on many systems by people that don't have a clue what they are doing with computers otherwise.

I'm addressing him point after point, its just I'm getting tired of dealing with things like "The way Windows uses RAM is so much better and more efficient" and "You can't do video editing or use flash on Linux" which is just ********. I don't care to convince HIM to use linux, but the problem is he's giving a bad impression for others who might want to (there are a few on there that already use stuff like Fedora and such, and few that are reading to see the different sides of whatever to see if they might want to try something else).

I don't know what I want, I'm kinda ranting, though to see a forum raid would be entertaining, I don't exactly expect that from you guys from this forum. The only problem I have is its right now this guys word against mine, and where I base my argument on reality, he bases his often enough on exaggerated problems from 3 years ago that have since been fixed or ideas that people have about linux that have never used it before, thus solidifing those ideas.

I don't like those ideas staying out there, since the real drawback for linux systems I see is really that the lack of numbers of users leads to low third party support, and the lack of third party support in turn leads to lack of numbers, but also odd ideas that linux can't work unless you are a tech nerd or only does very basic stuff.

[Chronon]

Rather than arguing, you should just point out that people can easily download a liveCD and decide for themselves how well Linux works on their machines.

[IceDoE]

Rather than arguing, you should just point out that people can easily download a liveCD and decide for themselves how well Linux works on their machines.

that may be a good point. Though the liveCD hardly shows the system at its full potential, especially for things like speed, memory use, games, etc.

[Regenweald]

Howie make a good point. Often times if someone mentions Linux, or defends some kind of fud being spread about it, all the sudden they're some kind of fan boy.

The really sad thing is feeling the need to defend linux or windows. My response to linux or windows pro/anti rants: Ok. I use an OS as a tool. Then I go have a life.

[Zlatan]

mate, get that as an advise- don't give a ***** what other guys use, you can give an advise when you're asked for that. in other way you're getting finished as an annoying evangelista... and no one likes them.
get a nice weekend:)


The funny thing is I'm not a particularly advanced user, but I know alot of what this guy says is straight bull, and its getting a bit annoying to keep telling him he is wrong and to try and make sure other readers of the forum aren't taking his word on it.

Anyway here is how it started:
Poster A: I'd get Windows 7 if it didn't cost hundreds.
Poster (windows): You could buy a win 7 ultimate key on eBay for like, $20
Me: Or you could get ANY version of ANY GNU/linux OS, which are much better, for free. They are also more efficient and run on just about anything (even microwaves).
Poster (windows): that is very, very bad advice.

And then argument ensues, including him saying that you can't run something like ubuntu out of the box, you have to go through a bunch of suff first and fix stuff to get it to actually work. Windows works out of the box great for everyone. Then saying that RAM is used better in Windows and Video editing can't be done in Ubuntu, etc etc.

Supposedly this guy has used ubuntu, but has gotten frustrated because his wireless card doesn't work. Now, for myself, I recently popped a wifi card in my desktop and it started working without me doing anything, and it was an obscure company card (U.S. Robotics).

And I'm sure all of us know plenty of not tech savvy people that have tried Ubuntu and found it much easier to use and do stuff than windows.

So what am I ranting on all this for? I'm getting a bit tired sorting through the ******** over and over and being the only one (small forum), and I'm honestly not as knowledgeable as many of you. Anyone wanna lend some help?

Note: the funniest part of the discussion was that his original argument was that linux is way TOO GOOD for the average user.

[tcoffeep]

that may be a good point. Though the liveCD hardly shows the system at its full potential, especially for things like speed, memory use, games, etc.

This.

People generally use LiveCDs as the end-all way to determine if your system supports Linux, but - when push comes to shove - it doesn't tell how stable the graphics drivers are, how much memory is used, how fast it goes (even when it's stored in RAM, like with the SystemRescue LiveCD). It's a very limited, very flawed test-run of Linux on your machine.

[tcoffeep]

The really sad thing is feeling the need to defend linux or windows. My response to linux or windows pro/anti rants: Ok. I use an OS as a tool. Then I go have a life.

This. I used to defend linux, but I've stopped - and now I just enjoy the OS and move on. However, I still have a problem with those who get defensive about it. That's my problem.

[t0p]

I don't like those ideas staying out there, since the real drawback for linux systems I see is really that the lack of numbers of users leads to low third party support, and the lack of third party support in turn leads to lack of numbers, but also odd ideas that linux can't work unless you are a tech nerd or only does very basic stuff.

These out-of-date and plain wrong anti-Linux ideas will continue regardless of what you say to this guy. IMO it's a waste of time trying to argue every point he makes, especially if you're a newbie to Linux.

Just tell the guy you've finished with the conversation then ignore him. Save the advocacy for someone who might actually take notice of what you're saying.

[Post Monkeh]

German for:

the thread the

haha :D

[IceDoE]

heres the thing guys, to me this is also like saying: 1)you've been screwing over many of your friends and family for a while when you recommend and give them Ubuntu or anything else, and the person that recommended it to you is also a dumbass. Oh, and you don't deserve your position as the Director of Engineering of your college radio station because you really screwed up their systems when you changed it all over from Windows and put on ubuntu studio. People trusted you and you lead them wrong.
2) I started the thread this is in simply as a "what are you using" thread. I didn't say one was better than the other necessarily, though I obviously said what I thought was good especially for the cost. This guy came in saying (before this) that Ubuntu just doesn't work, nor any other linux OS, for most things anyone could ever want to do, as opposed to Windows that always works. That's just not true.

[tcoffeep]

His system might not have been Linux compatible. So it didn't work for him. It's completely possible and has happened before. Until Linux has full 100% all hardware compatibility, there are going to be people who have a configuration that doesn't work well with Linux, and they're going to say "Hey, that shh don't work."

[whiskeylover]

the thread the

[IceDoE]

His system might not have been Linux compatible. So it didn't work for him. It's completely possible and has happened before. Until Linux has full 100% all hardware compatibility, there are going to be people who have a configuration that doesn't work well with Linux, and they're going to say "Hey, that shh don't work."

Thats the same case with every other OS though, including Windows. And, I'm willing to admit that, but he makes general statements that it won't work for anything, especially not anything advanced. Again, i don't really care if HE uses Ubuntu or Windows, but there were some others in this thread before that seemed open to looking for a new system if what I and one or two others were saying about how it works nicely for us had any credibility.

[wilee-nilee]

Why?

[swoll1980]

Thats the same case with every other OS though, including Windows.

While Windows does have it's flaws, I have never in my life bought a piece of hardware that didn't come with Window's drivers.

[Post Monkeh]

if you can't find any evidence to back up your arguments then it wouldn't matter if the forces of hell registered on the forum and posted backing you up - he still wouldn't believe it because his experience was bad.

show him a few of the (many) online tutorials for successfully setting up flash on linux. it doesn't work for everyone, but it does for many.
just don't make out that it's a million times better than windows because for the vast majority of people it really isn't. it's simply an alternative that costs nothing (except time and a bit of effort) and can do almost everything windows can, and a few things it can't. but that doesn't make it better if one of the things linux isn't good at is important to the person you're bumming linux up to.

[Post Monkeh]

While Windows does have it's flaws, I have never in my life bought a piece of hardware that didn't come with Window's drivers.

kempston joystick interface for the zx spectrum :popcorn:

[KiwiNZ]

Enough...enough

Thread closed