Lost warranty/support because of installing Linux based OS

[nukleuzN]

Hi,

I have a question.

In connection with that I will upgrade the hardware on my computer, I contacted the manufacturer (Fujitsu Siemens) for information on what type of components etc I would order.

Out in the conversation I was informed that if I switched to Ubuntu (which I have), or any other software one that was installed on the computer (Windows Vista) when I bought it, I would lose both the support and guarantee - regardless of whether it was hardware or software support / warranty.

Therefore I ask here. Can this be correct? Is there any PC manufacturers that do not have such rules and regulations, or do this applies to them all.

It's really sad for Linux distros, because it is not a good "selling point" (Yes, I know that Linux is largely free).

[BrandonBan6]

It does not sound correct, but I am no lawyer! Was there a small print agreement you signed when purchasing the hardware?

Worst case scenario, you could use dd or clonezilla, take an image snapshot of your ubuntu install. Re-install vista from either the restore partition (providing you didn't wipe that when installing linux) or the restore cd. Get your support, and then dump your ubuntu image back on! :D

[whiskeylover]

So that means if you install anything on your computer (even an IM client, since it didn't originally come with the computer) you lose your warranty? That can't be right.

Call them up and tell them you're recording the phone call (even if you aren't) and ask them to repeat the voiding warranty part.

[dabl]

Therefore I ask here. Can this be correct?



Of course it can -- it is their warranty. Who will force them to support a "mystery configuration" that they did not install? And of course, many manufacturers will use any excuse to avoid repairing the hardware, too.





Is there any PC manufacturers that do not have such rules and regulations, or do this applies to them all.



I think all are the same for "configured system" equipment. If you build your own from purchased parts, then usually the parts warranties will be honored by the parts vendor. At least this is my experience.


p.s. There is nothing illegal about using clonezilla to image the hard drive, before you ever boot it. Then if you need to restore that image before returning the system to the OEM, you can have an interesting debate about why the seal on the drive bay cover was torn. ;)

[x33a]

I have heard of similar cases before:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=warranty+linux+over&btnG=Search&meta=&aq=f&oq=

I can only say that you should know the warranty rules for the computer beforehand considering how much resistance we linux users face from the corporations. either buy a machine with no os, or buy from a company which doesn't have such rules.

[nukleuzN]

[..] either buy a machine with no os, or buy from a company which doesn't have such rules.


[..] Is there any PC manufacturers that do not have such rules and regulations, or do this applies to them all.



Of course it can -- it is their warranty. Who will force them to support a "mystery configuration" that they did not install? And of course, many manufacturers will use any excuse to avoid repairing the hardware, too.
--
I think all are the same for "configured system" equipment. If you build your own from purchased parts, then usually the parts warranties will be honored by the parts vendor. At least this is my experience.
--
p.s. There is nothing illegal about using clonezilla to image the hard drive, before you ever boot it. Then if you need to restore that image before returning the system to the OEM, you can have an interesting debate about why the seal on the drive bay cover was torn. ;)

Yes I am aware that it is their warranty .... and they can decide what should be in it. - But why should support and warranty on the hardware be affected by that I install another operating system? Realize that support for drivers and support in a different operating system than what was pre-installed is not granted.

I was very exasperated with this - almost enough that I do not want to use Linux-based operating system on my next computer, but rather use the pre-installed.

[dabl]

But why should support and warranty on the hardware be affected by that I install another operating system?



Have you ever seen a post on this forum reporting a failure of Linux to run the fans properly? How is the manufacturer to know whether the fans were cooling the CPU properly before it fried?

[leandromartinez98]

Certainly you cannot loose your hardware waranty because of that, I'm sure that if you go to court you will win the case. But, as usually the things go, you will not sue the company for that because you have more important things to do, and that's how things actually work.

I have a friend that bought a Dell laptop with Vista, changed to (pirated) XP, and had a hardware problem. They said the same thing. After insisting a little and menacing calling the consumer protecting agencies, Dell substituted his laptop. The company will probably not make many efforts to not change a failed hardware, but you probably will have to insist.

[tgalati4]

Why put up with those restrictions to your use of a computer that you purchased?

Buy an out-of-warranty Thinkpad. Runs linux and no warranty restrictions.

[Sef]

Moved to Community Cafe.

[clanky]

If you bought a car from Ford and changed the engine would you expect Ford to honour the warranty?

If you buy a computer and change the operating system then the same applies, the operating system you use does affect the hardware, there have been issues with both fan speed control and HDD cycle times with Linux before.

If you choose to install a new OS on your computer you cannot expect the makers who pre-installed Windows (or any other OS) having tested the computer using that OS to honour the warranty.

[Maheriano]

They're only referring to the software warranty. Like if it no longer boots up, they're not going to support it if you put Linux on there. But if some hardware component fries then they'll warranty that.

[nubimax]

I am planning to buy my wife a new computer in April, was going to replace her Fujitsu with a new one. After reading this thread I will be looking at different manufactures. Thank you for the heads up.
M.

[Tristam Green]

They're only referring to the software warranty. Like if it no longer boots up, they're not going to support it if you put Linux on there. But if some hardware component fries then they'll warranty that.

No they're not. It is the machine warranty, which includes a specific build that came with the computer - Operating System and Original hardware configuration. Deviate from it and you void your warranty.

dabl and clanky have the right answers here, OP.

[ssam]

if you are in the UK, not sure about other places.

no matter what the warranty says you still have your statutory rights. if you buy something and it turns out to be defective you are entitled to a repair or replacement.



Remember, rights under a warranty are in addition to your other consumer rights. A warranty doesn't affect your legal right to reject a computer that was faulty when you bought it and get your money back. But don't delay your complaint for too long. For more information see Using a guarantee and Making a complaint.

http://www.consumerdirect.gov.uk/after_you_buy/know-your-rights/computers/


If goods are inherently defective (as opposed to being misused or suffering from normal wear and tear), you may be entitled to a free repair, like for like replacement or partial refund. If there's a fault in the first six months after purchase, the onus will be on the trader to prove that the fault was not present at the time of sale. After that, it's down to the consumer
http://www.consumerdirect.gov.uk/news/press_releases/national/2009/Christmasrights

i am sure it would be difficult for them to argue that installing new software is not normal use.

[nukleuzN]

Hi,

Thanx for the replies! Something is for sure; I think the Norwegian consumers rights is quite better then the manufacturers.

But I'm wondering; what is out-of-warranty, and what does it meen?

I think my next PC will be a Lenovo - because I heard from a friend of mine (that owns Powertech - a norwegian ISP company, or something like that) that Lenovo was great Linux computers. He's been using Linux for ages.

Tried to search on Google for "out-of-warranty Lenovo" and "Computers without OS" etc etc, but i couldn't find any?!

[BrandonBan6]

Hi,

Thanx for the replies! Something is for sure; I think the Norwegian consumers rights is quite better then the manufacturers.

But I'm wondering; what is out-of-warranty, and what does it meen?

I think my next PC will be a Lenovo - because I heard from a friend of mine (that owns Powertech - a norwegian ISP company, or something like that) that Lenovo was great Linux computers. He's been using Linux for ages.

Tried to search on Google for "out-of-warranty Lenovo" and "Computers without OS" etc etc, but i couldn't find any?!

I'm using a Lenovo T400, alright haven't had any "real" issues with Ubuntu, IMHO I would look for a Lenovo w/Nvidia drivers.

[MCVenom]

Yes I am aware that it is their warranty .... and they can decide what should be in it. - But why should support and warranty on the hardware be affected by that I install another operating system? Realize that support for drivers and support in a different operating system than what was pre-installed is not granted.

I was very exasperated with this - almost enough that I do not want to use Linux-based operating system on my next computer, but rather use the pre-installed.
Buy a computer from ZaReason. (http://www.zareason.com) They come preinstalled with Ubuntu, you can customize the hardware they're shipped with before ordering it, and nothing short of blowing the computer up for a YouTube video will void your warranty.

System76 (http://www.system76.com) is also a popular vendor for Ubuntu preinstalled computers/laptops :D

[tgalati4]

Craigslist is a good source for used thinkpads.

[lisati]

Here in New Zealand we have statutory rights about suitability of purpose and similar stuff that go beyond what some manufacturers and retailers want to offer. However, when the keyboard on my laptop needed repairs last year, having read similar threads about warranty concerns, I took the precaution of making backups of my system and data and restoring the Vista-only installation to an out of the box state (+ updates and antivirus) before sending it off to Toshiba. Repairs done, no problems, and Ubuntu reinstalled when the machine came back.

[mickie.kext]

Therefore I ask here. Can this be correct? Is there any PC manufacturers that do not have such rules and regulations, or do this applies to them all.

It's really sad for Linux distros, because it is not a good "selling point" (Yes, I know that Linux is largely free).

You can screw them by installing Vista back, then when they do upgrading and stuff, you revert back to Ubuntu.


If you bought a car from Ford and changed the engine would you expect Ford to honour the warranty?

If we are talking about changing CPU, then you would have a point.

[bunburya]

It depends upon the wording of the warranty. Of course it is within their power, legally, to add into the contract of sale a clause that a change in OS will void the warranty. The question though is whether this clause was in your contract of sale.

I live in Ireland and when I bought my laptop I asked about this, and was told that installing Ubuntu or any OS other than Windows 7 (Vista was pre-installed) would void the warranty. However, I asked on another forum about whether or not I could simply install Ubuntu, re-install Vista if anything went wrong (presuming I still could) and avail of the warranty under those circumstances, and switch back to Ubuntu afterwards. I was told by people with experience in IT that that would be okay. Some said that the reasoning behind the OS rule was that they wanted to be sure that it was actually a hardware fault and not something caused by the OS or other software. (This was in relation to a hardware warranty btw.)

I don't know if that would apply to your situation but it's worth looking into. Of course if the warranty relates to software then you void it by changing the software.

[AlanR8]

This Sony laptop had a failed BlueRay disk within 4 weeks of buying it from Comet UK.

First, Comet refused point blank to honour the sale of goods act (UK) and I had to return the machine to Sony directly. In fairness, Sony were super fast and it was back inside 48 hours!

BUT, I had to strip off Kubuntu (at the time) and re-install Vista before sending it back. I'd left Vista on the machine long enough to burn the rescue disks but had to buy an external CD/DV drive to do the job.

Sony also said they would only honour the warranty work subject to original OS being installed

[nukleuzN]

Interesting: http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site.wss/document.do?sitestyle=lenovo&lndocid=MIGR-48NT8D
- When such is on Lenovo's support site, Lenovo has probably struggle to wriggle out of warranty cases. Here you can read namely: the machines that are confirmed supported by the various distros.

Then there will be a Lenovo on me next time, I think! :) Someone who has knowledge of how "politics" to Lonovo is? Customer service and support?

[Post Monkeh]

Have you ever seen a post on this forum reporting a failure of Linux to run the fans properly? How is the manufacturer to know whether the fans were cooling the CPU properly before it fried?

this.

your hardware is controlled by software drivers. if you don't use the drivers that the equipment manufacturer provides then you're on dodgy ground.

if you're really worried, do what someone else suggested and clone your drive, and hope that if anything goes wrong they don't do a scan to see what's been on the disk.

[Tristam Green]

You can screw them by installing Vista back, then when they do upgrading and stuff, you revert back to Ubuntu.


Yes. This isn't exactly "screwing" them, because all you're doing is reverting to the OEM system state. That's all they care about, really.


this.

your hardware is controlled by software drivers. if you don't use the drivers that the equipment manufacturer provides then you're on dodgy ground.

if you're really worried, do what someone else suggested and clone your drive, and hope that if anything goes wrong they don't do a scan to see what's been on the disk.

^---

[nukleuzN]

This Sony laptop had a failed BlueRay disk within 4 weeks of buying it from Comet UK.

First, Comet refused point blank to honour the sale of goods act (UK) and I had to return the machine to Sony directly. In fairness, Sony were super fast and it was back inside 48 hours!

BUT, I had to strip off Kubuntu (at the time) and re-install Vista before sending it back. I'd left Vista on the machine long enough to burn the rescue disks but had to buy an external CD/DV drive to do the job.

Sony also said they would only honour the warranty work subject to original OS being installed

In fact, I had a warranty issue on this while it was installed Ubuntu on it. It's only then that I had questions about it then, and it was a contact on the video card that was the problem - so repairman had not seen what was on the machine before it was fully repaired;) - This was not this time, unfortunately.

[Post Monkeh]

if you are in the UK, not sure about other places.

no matter what the warranty says you still have your statutory rights. if you buy something and it turns out to be defective you are entitled to a repair or replacement.


http://www.consumerdirect.gov.uk/after_you_buy/know-your-rights/computers/


http://www.consumerdirect.gov.uk/news/press_releases/national/2009/Christmasrights

i am sure it would be difficult for them to argue that installing new software is not normal use.

when it is the software that controls the hardware, then it really isn't normal use.
it's no different than overclocking your processor, for example.
the drivers play a very important role in the running of the hardware, and if that driver isn't supported by the hardware manufacturer then you'd have a hard time proving that it wasn't that that damaged your hardware.

[Nevon]

I was very exasperated with this - almost enough that I do not want to use Linux-based operating system on my next computer, but rather use the pre-installed.

That wouldn't really be a viable option either, since according to the information you were given, any software installation would void the warranty - regardless of whether it's an operating system or a fancy screensaver.

But, like many people in the thread have already said, many countries have some kind of consumer rights that makes it so that you have a hardware warranty for a period of time, regardless of what the seller's warranty clause says.

Still, I'd recommend voting with your wallet and simply not buying anything from companies with such outrageous demands.

[nukleuzN]

Have you ever seen a post on this forum reporting a failure of Linux to run the fans properly? How is the manufacturer to know whether the fans were cooling the CPU properly before it fried?


this.

your hardware is controlled by software drivers. if you don't use the drivers that the equipment manufacturer provides then you're on dodgy ground.

if you're really worried, do what someone else suggested and clone your drive, and hope that if anything goes wrong they don't do a scan to see what's been on the disk.

when it is the software that controls the hardware, then it really isn't normal use.
it's no different than overclocking your processor, for example.
the drivers play a very important role in the running of the hardware, and if that driver isn't supported by the hardware manufacturer then you'd have a hard time proving that it wasn't that that damaged your hardware.

Is Linux based OS really that bad?


If you bought a car from Ford and changed the engine would you expect Ford to honour the warranty?
FTW?
Had you talked about changing the interior of the car, so I had understood what you are talking about. But you are talking about engine parts in the car? Hardware! As I however have not tampered with.

We are talking about software (Linux).

[Post Monkeh]

it doesn't matter whether linux is that bad or not. If you're using unofficial drivers then the manufacturer would have a pretty strong case.

[clanky]

FTW?
Had you talked about changing the interior of the car, so I had understood what you are talking about. But you are talking about engine parts in the car? Hardware! As I however have not tampered with.

We are talking about software (Linux).

Bold = cruise control of cool, right?

As several people have already pointed out to you the hardware of your computer is controlled by your OS, as I pointed out to you, there have been several issues with linux causing issues with hardware, I don't think my comments called for the poorly obfuscated wtf

You asked a question, if you only want to hear answers that confirm what you already believe then just type the question on your own PC and type an answer yourself.

[Alexandre Putt]

This sounds rather absurd to me. I buy hardware, not software, and how I use it is up to me. I see absolutely no connection between the two.

Btw, there are plenty of laptops that are shipped with Linux or DOS (e.g. some models from Dell or Acer).

[Post Monkeh]

This sounds rather absurd to me. I buy hardware, not software, and how I use it is up to me. I see absolutely no connection between the two.

Btw, there are plenty of laptops that are shipped with Linux or DOS (e.g. some models from Dell or Acer).
Then those manufacturers are supporting that os. To use the car analogy, if you get a car and it is clearly stated that the car will only accept a certain kind of engine oil, and you use a different kind, then if something breaks, the car makes would be within their rights to blame it on you using an unsupported engine oil. Just because most car makers will let you put many types of oil in their engine doesn't mean that all engines can accept them.

[Alexandre Putt]

To use the car analogy, if you get a car and it is clearly stated that the car will only accept a certain kind of engine oil, and you use a different kind...

Well, computers are not cars, and the analogy is not adequate (sorry). A computer is a calculating device built with circuits. Just how exactly it operates on the software side (or what it does) is irrelevant. It may have no software at all and be used just to display the BIOS prompt for years - and this would be a perfectly valid use.

OK, there is this issue with drivers. But this issue is misunderstood IMHO. The equipment on your computer is mostly run without any add-on software (like Windows). Devices like HDDs have controllers with the software built-in (in the ROM). They operate independently of whatever content you put on the drive. Stating that copying certain files on a drive voids the warranty is weird at best. It has to work.

Video cards and fans are similar, but slightly more difficult cases.

Of course, it might be possible to cause damage to the hardware. But this is very, very rare, and in this situations you are at your risk (you read and signed the licence agreement, right?). But this does not mean that in the general case you are stripped of your rights.

[madnessjack]

If a car with software had it altered you'd probably get arrested

[t0p]

Video cards and fans are similar, but slightly more difficult cases.


Sorry, but the fan is a very important piece of kit. If it doesn't work correctly, the computer's other components can overheat and fail. And fan operation can be totally controlled by the operating system.

If the OS you installed screws up and the CPU gets fried because the fan stops working, is it fair to say the hardware manufacturer or the company that sold you the computer with a different OS should foot the bill? Remember, Linux is supplied with no warranty implied; so you won't get much joy asking Linux devs to pay for your repairs!

Of course that's all pretty unlikely. But still possible. If anyone is really concerned about how a particular manufacturer/seller may react to an OS change, why not ring them up before you buy and ask them? Tell them you're recording the call and they will be sure to give you a truthful answer.

[Post Monkeh]

Well, computers are not cars, and the analogy is not adequate (sorry). A computer is a calculating device built with circuits. Just how exactly it operates on the software side (or what it does) is irrelevant. It may have no software at all and be used just to display the BIOS prompt for years - and this would be a perfectly valid use.

OK, there is this issue with drivers. But this issue is misunderstood IMHO. The equipment on your computer is mostly run without any add-on software (like Windows). Devices like HDDs have controllers with the software built-in (in the ROM). They operate independently of whatever content you put on the drive. Stating that copying certain files on a drive voids the warranty is weird at best. It has to work.

Video cards and fans are similar, but slightly more difficult cases.

Of course, it might be possible to cause damage to the hardware. But this is very, very rare, and in this situations you are at your risk (you read and signed the licence agreement, right?). But this does not mean that in the general case you are stripped of your rights.
Unlikely but possible. Just like any hardware failure, and a good argument if anyone is looking to get out of a warranty. The hardware is directly controlled in some instances by the software, that in itself gives them a case to invalidate the warranty.

[ssam]

i a pretty sure that fans will always run at full speed, unless the software slows them down. so if linux does not have a driver for your fan controller, then your CPU or GPU will still be cooled.

if you go out of your way to turn the fans off, then you might cause overheating, but you could do the same on any OS.

Any sane hardware will power off if it overheats (otherwise it would be a fire hazard). so it should be very difficult for software to damage hardware in this way.

still (so long as you country has sane consumer rights) if the product suffers from a manufacturing defect it does not matter what the warranty/guaranty says, you are entitled to a refund/repair/replacement.

[wirepuller134]

+1 to Lenovo customer support. We bought a few SL410 laptops this year, that came with Windows 7 pro 64 on them. Our software vendor, Rockwell software, does not support it. On contacting Lenovo to request the 32 version install, they next day aired the DVD sets to us, but also suggested replacing the hard drive with another one and using XP pro until our vendor supported Windows 7, then put the original hard drive back in. We have never had any issues with warranty claims with Lenovo/IBM with any laptop that was dual booting into a Linux OS.

[MarcusW]

Have you ever seen a post on this forum reporting a failure of Linux to run the fans properly? How is the manufacturer to know whether the fans were cooling the CPU properly before it fried?

The fans not working does not mean the CPU fries. All modern CPUs (at least x86 from intel and amd) shut down a good while before it "fries". Maybe it wouldn't have time to to shut down if it was completely without a cooler, but that's hardly the case.

If turning off the fans would fry the CPU, how would the manufacturer know you didn't turn off the fans from windows? (or maybe a virus turned them off) I don't know how it works in the US, but in sweden the usual deal is that the warranty never covers anything software related, but what software you use doesn't matter at all if your hardware breaks. (FYI it often says installing another OS voids the warranty in the manufacturers documentation though, but as long as the salesman says something else that's what you get. :))

[t0p]

The fans not working does not mean the CPU fries. All modern CPUs (at least x86 from intel and amd) shut down a good while before it "fries".

I take your point that fan failure usually leads to shutdown rather than frying the CPU. But that doesn't really affect the main issue. If your computer is repeatedly shutting down to fan failure, and that fan failure is due to the OS you installed, should the manufacturer have to bear the cost of shipping the machine back and forth and having techs examine it?

I think that if the manufacturer learnt fan failure was caused by your unsanctioned OS, they would want some money for their trouble.

[Alexandre Putt]

If the OS you installed screws up and the CPU gets fried because the fan stops working, is it fair to say the hardware manufacturer or the company that sold you the computer with a different OS should foot the bill?

Correct, but you can equally well damage your PC using Windows and some third party software.

The point is that

The company must prove it was a misuse of equipment on your side that caused a failure. E.g. if the fan was with a defect and you had Linux, there is no reason for them not to be liable.
In no way a malfunctioning fan limits your warranty for other pieces of equipment that make a computer. E.g. if you ruined the CPU, an HDD with a defect is still the responsibility of the manufacturer, contrary to what Fujitsu Siemens guys say.

[Post Monkeh]

Correct, but you can equally well damage your PC using Windows and some third party software.

The point is that

The company must prove it was a misuse of equipment on your side that caused a failure. E.g. if the fan was with a defect and you had Linux, there is no reason for them not to be liable.
In no way a malfunctioning fan limits your warranty for other pieces of equipment that make a computer. E.g. if you ruined the CPU, an HDD with a defect is still the responsibility of the manufacturer, contrary to what Fujitsu Siemens guys say.


you're getting hung up on cpu fans.

when i first tried ubuntu (about 16 months ago) on my laptop, everything worked great.
on my desktop however, my wireless adapter just didn't play well with it at all. so much so that if i tried to use it in ubuntu, then loaded windows, it would not work there either until i plugged it out and reinserted it.
don't ask me why switching the computer off didn't do the same thing. i had to take it out and reinsert it to get it to work. every time. that is a fact. if using a piece of hardware on linux can make it stop working temporarily, it can make it stop working permanently.

people seem to misunderstand what hardware really is. until it is doing something, all it is is plastic and metal.
it is the SOFTWARE that drives the hardware. this is hidden for the most part in windows because the manufacturers are providing the necessary software (ie the drivers)to run it.
if you use an unsupported driver then you're taking your chances. as soon as you stop using the hardware the way the manufacturer says it should be used (whether you like what they say or not) then you are automatically not using it in the way it is intended.
it wouldn't be very hard to hide (at least superficially) the fact you were using linux instead of windows, but do not assume that you should be able to use whatever operating system you want to control your hardware with no danger of losing your warranty. i would say most companies wouldn't care, but if one specifically tells you you must use windows then if i were you i would either use windows, or if i wasn't then i would do my best to hide it if anything did go wrong.

[TurnOfTide]

Hi,

I have a question.

In connection with that I will upgrade the hardware on my computer, I contacted the manufacturer (Fujitsu Siemens) for information on what type of components etc I would order.

Out in the conversation I was informed that if I switched to Ubuntu (which I have), or any other software one that was installed on the computer (Windows Vista) when I bought it, I would lose both the support and guarantee - regardless of whether it was hardware or software support / warranty.

Therefore I ask here. Can this be correct? Is there any PC manufacturers that do not have such rules and regulations, or do this applies to them all.

It's really sad for Linux distros, because it is not a good "selling point" (Yes, I know that Linux is largely free).


protip: just install windows with clonedisk before you ship it/ don't be a tool by telling them you installed ubuntu just to make an argument

[tom66]

I know Dell has no such restrictions, though they do require Windows for the software tech support.

[steveneddy]

System76 (http://www.system76.com/)

[Khakilang]

That's not true. If your PSU blow a fuse and your computer doesn't turn on, do you blame Ubuntu? Software do not take a hammer and wack you computer. Sometime the component just fail. I think if you install Linux and your computer hang due to software compatibility or drivers problem than only they have the right to refuse the service but they still have to warranty the hardware if it is hardware failure.

My HP notebook Window fail and they charge me for reinstalling the Window because they do not warranty software even it come with pre install Window.

[Mark Phelps]

.. but they still have to warranty the hardware if it is hardware failure.

Not true ...

Any warranty comes with T's-and'C's (Terms and Conditions). No warranty comes with no limitations.

For example, a new car generally comes with a warranty. But if you install a supercharger and racing tires, and then take it to the track and blow the engine racing -- your dealer will NOT take the car back and fix it under "warranty" -- because without reading it, I can pretty much bet there are clauses in their warranty about "usage".

If the installed OS comes with drivers and software that, combined, protect the CPU and other hardware against overheating, and you replace those with an OS that does NOT provide those, you have modified the system -- and the original supplier is then NOT obligated to honor THEIR warranty.

[Alexandre Putt]

If the installed OS comes with drivers and software that, combined, protect the CPU and other hardware against overheating, and you replace those with an OS that does NOT provide those, you have modified the system -- and the original supplier is then NOT obligated to honor THEIR warranty.

This is not true and makes no sense, as already said above. Moreover, this sounds pretty illegal to me. You buy a PC and have the right to use it in whatever way you like. PC is an open architecture. You are not tied to using one single program made by one producer.

There is no way that hardware would die without software control. There is hardware that has some functionality implemented on the software side (for example, Winmodems). But I've never heard of these modems exploding without Windows-nursing.

As I already said, hardware must run flawlessly without any operating system. If it does not, it is faulty.

[Post Monkeh]

As I already said, hardware must run flawlessly without any operating system. If it does not, it is faulty.

what are drivers for?

[golusweet]

depends on vendor. I had replacement of my laptop's screen, and DVD ROM, and ubuntu was installed on it. I taken my laptop to service center, and they ordered the parts because it was within warranty.

[Post Monkeh]

depends on vendor. I had replacement of my laptop's screen, and DVD ROM, and ubuntu was installed on it. I taken my laptop to service center, and they ordered the parts because it was within warranty.

i'd say it would depend on the part too.

a screen and dvd rom (or a keyboard) couldn't be damaged no matter what softwware you were running.
things like a processor, graphics card, or anything that can be flashed to upgrade the firmware (wireless card for instance) and you could have a fight on your hand if the hardware vendor states in their warranty that the equipment is only certified with windows.

[Alexandre Putt]

what are drivers for?

Extra functionality. For example, any video card should support working in VESA mode. With a driver you get much faster operation, more video modes and extra features. If the manufacturer does not provide a driver for Linux (or whatever), you will certainly want to have the added functionality available via an unofficial driver (which may in fact perform better in some cases).

Of course, many devices do not work without a driver at all. But I still don't see how the mere fact of installing Linux (or whatever) destroys them. This is an exaggeration as this is not how most hardware works. It does not matter for a printer what operating system you run. All what matters is that you send the right sequence of commands.

[Post Monkeh]

unofficial driver


got it in one :popcorn:

[Tristam Green]

Extra functionality. For example, any video card should support working in VESA mode. With a driver you get much faster operation, more video modes and extra features. If the manufacturer does not provide a driver for Linux (or whatever), you will certainly want to have the added functionality available via an unofficial driver (which may in fact perform better in some cases).

Of course, many devices do not work without a driver at all. But I still don't see how the mere fact of installing Linux (or whatever) destroys them. This is an exaggeration as this is not how most hardware works. It does not matter for a printer what operating system you run. All what matters is that you send the right sequence of commands.

You need a driver for any operation of the hardware. Even in VESA mode, it still requires a basic software driver, probably from the Operating System.

It can appear to not need drivers, but they are there. Stock or not.

[Alexandre Putt]

You need a driver for any operation of the hardware. Even in VESA mode, it still requires a basic software driver, probably from the Operating System.

It can appear to not need drivers, but they are there. Stock or not.

I guess it depends on how you define it. 15-20 years ago you could run DOS without a single driver. Drivers were completely optional. If I am not wrong, VESA does not require a driver (but I've not programmed it, so I can be wrong) . At least VGA mode does not.

The point is that a device is generally not tied to a particular OS. It is tied to an interface and a set of commands. Thus nothing prevents it from using it with different software.

[lisati]

what are drivers for?


To provide functionality that is not provided by BIOS or the OS
To extend the functionality that is provided by BIOS and the OS

[Post Monkeh]

I guess it depends on how you define it. 15-20 years ago you could run DOS without a single driver. Drivers were completely optional. If I am not wrong, VESA does not require a driver (but I've not programmed it, so I can be wrong) . At least VGA mode does not.

The point is that a device is generally not tied to a particular OS. It is tied to an interface and a set of commands. Thus nothing prevents it from using it with different software.



To provide functionality that is not provided by BIOS or the OS
To extend the functionality that is provided by BIOS and the OS


so if we could go in and delete every single display driver in our linux install and boot our computer you reckon ubuntu would just magically be able to speak to the graphics card and display a desktop at a "normal" resolution ?(ie not vga)

[gspat]

When I bought laptops for my kids to use at school last christmas, I asked them when I bought them what would be the effect of installing linux on the warranty.

They told me flat out that they would not support it, not because linux is dangerous or any of the other reasoning you guys have mentioned, but simply because none of their techs knew anything about linux and would be unable to service it if something went wrong.

They had no problem with a dual-boot setup, they simply insisted that windows be there in some way, shape or form for their troubleshooting purposes.

When the hard drive on one of them failed, they were more than willing to re-install vista from the restore disks (and in this way verify that the hard drive actually failed so the warranty work could be done).

I'm not going to fault them for this... this is how they trained and what they were trained to do.

They were a bit surprised when I brought them both in for a "checkup" when the warranty was ending (I asked them to stress test the hardware to look for possible failures), and the vista setup was basically untouched from factory (all I did was create restore disks, then install Ubuntu)

In fact, the windows partitions are still there... I couldn't be arsed to remove them and the kids can't be arsed to use them either.

[Tristam Green]

so if we could go in and delete every single display driver in our linux install and boot our computer you reckon ubuntu would just magically be able to speak to the graphics card and display a desktop at a "normal" resolution ?(ie not vga)

I'm currently awaiting the "terminal qualifies" argument.

[Post Monkeh]

When I bought laptops for my kids to use at school last christmas, I asked them when I bought them what would be the effect of installing linux on the warranty.

They told me flat out that they would not support it, not because linux is dangerous or any of the other reasoning you guys have mentioned, but simply because none of their techs knew anything about linux and would be unable to service it if something went wrong.

They had no problem with a dual-boot setup, they simply insisted that windows be there in some way, shape or form for their troubleshooting purposes.

When the hard drive on one of them failed, they were more than willing to re-install vista from the restore disks (and in this way verify that the hard drive actually failed so the warranty work could be done).

I'm not going to fault them for this... this is how they trained and what they were trained to do.

They were a bit surprised when I brought them both in for a "checkup" when the warranty was ending (I asked them to stress test the hardware to look for possible failures), and the vista setup was basically untouched from factory (all I did was create restore disks, then install Ubuntu)

In fact, the windows partitions are still there... I couldn't be arsed to remove them and the kids can't be arsed to use them either.

to be fair i'd expect that to be the attitude most of the time, and it's only fair that there's a windows installation there to aid the maintenance.

[qalimas]

Buy a Dell preloaded with Linux :)