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View Full Version : IBM not going to use Vista, will move to Linux desktops!



matthew
March 8th, 2006, 05:38 AM
Seems like a rumor to me, but it's on digg with a link. Discuss at will.

Digg: http://digg.com/linux_unix/IBM_Not_To_Use_Vista_-_But_Will_Move_to_Linux_Desktops

Links to: http://www.neoseeker.com/news/story/5436/

--EDIT ADDED--

I did a bit more reading and here is the context of the comments, which are far more interesting taken as a whole. From here: http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20060305214231974 It's the last paragraph that got this topic rolling, though I found the whole thing interesting reading.


IBM in the World of Open Source
While the techincal presentations spoke dearly to the computer scientist in me, the most interesting presentation in an overall perspective was IBM's Andreas Pleschek speaking on "IBM vs. Open Source, Friend or Foe". Andreas Pleschek is working at IBM in Stuttgart, Germany, and head of open source and Linux technical sales across North East Europe. As far as Google tells me, he has given the same presentation before, at least in the Netherlands and in Sweden. Nevertheless, it was news to me and provided me with a more detailed understanding of IBM's future plans.

He began by stating that IBM is for open standards. And since open source software drives open standards, they are for open source too. Apparently, it was the Jikes (http://jikes.sourceforge.net/) Java compiler, that opened their eyes about open source. IBM developed Jikes, and in 1997 they put it up for free download as binaries for their UNIX platform. When they put Linux binaries up for download in 1998, they experienced a download rate seven times as big as for the UNIX version. That told them that Linux was going somewhere. In late 1998, they open sourced Jikes, and within eight hours, they received a non-trivial enhancement that was so complex that they had to study it for days just to understand it. In 2000, Lou Gerstner announced that IBM was going to invest one billion dollars in Linux, and IBM now have 650 people working on open source projects such as Apache and Linux. Furthermore, IBM has open sourced software such as Eclipse (http://www.eclipse.org/) and Cloudscape (the latter is now known as Apache Derby (http://db.apache.org/derby/)).
IBM found out that they could use open source principles in-house, because open source "enhances multi-site development". They have purchased several products over the years (Lotus, Tivoli, WebSphere, DB2, etc.) and they wanted to break them up into smaller components that could be mixed and matched. But they discovered that the pieces did not fit together, because the different developers did not talk to each other. Andreas Pleschek referenced Eric S. Raymond's "The Cathedral and the Bazaar (http://www.catb.org/%7Eesr/writings/cathedral-bazaar/)" and said that IBM wanted to exploit the bazaar model rather than their previous cathedral model. They told their developers just to share, although it took some convincing.
Last year, IBM changed their business model after a Gartner study told them that 19% of the software market will move from commercial, proprietary software to open source software over the next five years. IBM's new philosophy is to take the best from both worlds. They will use open source for the commodities, i.e. things that everyone need, such as file zippers, browsers and word processors. On the other hand, he said, proprietary software is better for specialized software - mainly because there is not enough community interest to drive a complex, fast development for something that only a few people need. He said that there is a pendulum motion between the two, so the border between what is best solved by Open Source and what is best solved by proprietary software moves all the time.
Accordingly, IBM will now offer three categories of software: Some will be Open Source, which they will help develop, sponsor or even donate to the Open Source community. Also, they will offer support and integration for it. Some software will still be proprietary - mostly their big, complex systems in full-blown versions. And some will be offered as closed source, but free download. That will often be watered-down versions of the proprietary software. He used the term "community edition".
When asked from the audience whether the new business model works, he said that IBM's customers loved it but that their sales persons were "concerned". But since Gartner predicted that 19% of the market shares would be lost anyway, he did not think that it makes much difference on sales. And if they can sell support to just 10% of the customers that switch to open source, they will still be better off.
Overall, I had the impression that IBM has seen the writing on the wall that proprietary software eventually will be a thing of the past. But on the other hand they have a huge investment in proprietary software, and that is still where they get their money. So of course, they cannot just open source it all at once. They have to do it gradually so that they can grow a new business to replace the income of the former. Personally, I do not like their closed source/free download idea, but I realize that it is the only way for them to keep the business for the full-blown versions. I think they would open source it if they could. But then again, a more cynical interpretation could be that the "community editions" is just a way to get people dependant on them in the hope that they will upgrade to paid-for versions later on.
At the end of the presentation, Andreas Pleschek revealed that the laptop he used for the presentation was running a pre-release of their new platform, the Open Client. It is actually a Red Hat work station with IBM's new Workplace Client, which is built in Java on top of Eclipse. Because of Eclipse, it runs on both Linux and Windows, and they have been able to reuse the C++ code in Lotus Notes for Windows to run it natively on Linux via Eclipse. Internally in IBM, for years, they have had a need to run Lotus Notes on Linux, and now they can. And they will offer it to their customers.
Workplace uses Lotus Notes for mail, calendar, etc. and Firefox as their browser. For an office suite, they use OpenOffice.org.
Andreas Pleschek also told that IBM has cancelled their contract with Microsoft as of October this year. That means that IBM will not use Windows Vista for their desktops. Beginning from July, IBM employees will begin using IBM Workplace on their new, Red Hat-based platform. Not all at once - some will keep using their present Windows versions for a while. But none will upgrade to Vista.

fuscia
March 8th, 2006, 05:45 AM
ok, aside from the tl/dr part, this makes sense to me. i know some ibm employees who wouldn't even know about linux unless there had been talk.

Qrk
March 8th, 2006, 07:06 AM
So, first IBM talked of Linux and open source.

Then they put their money (and a lot of it!) where their mouth was.

Now they just put the whole company where just some of their money was.

It will be interesting to see how a large company like IBM will get by without any windows. Previously it seems the studies were always looking at Linux machines running in a windows environment. Indeed, in that case, perhaps just maybe... Microsoft could be cheaper.

But with Linux on its own at IBM; it truly is a watershed moment. I think more companies will follow... as the cost of upgrading from XP (or 2000) to Vista will make Linux all that more attractive.

Virogenesis
March 8th, 2006, 07:18 AM
IBM are bigger than microsoft they are the reason why we have computers today without their standard hardware would still be extremely pricey even for someone living in a developed country such as the usa, uk, canada and most of europe.

What you have to remember is that they are only changing their systems in house.
Many companies have switched over to linux based desktops even Microsoft don't use windows according to a source of mine instead they use macs how true that is I don't know but its not going to hurt IBM.

What you also have to remember is IBM have not been supporting Microsoft for sometime unlike HP (who backs both linux and windows) IBM have gone pro linux for their servers.

asimon
March 8th, 2006, 08:04 AM
It will be interesting to see how a large company like IBM will get by without any windows.
Being Windows-free will not be possible in the short or midium-term. A lot of IBM's customers are using Microsoft solutions and they can't tell them 'sorry guys, we don't do Windows any longer'. It can only be a long-term goal.

BoyOfDestiny
March 8th, 2006, 08:14 AM
Being Windows-free will not be possible in the short or midium-term. A lot of IBM's customers are using Microsoft solutions and they can't tell them 'sorry guys, we don't do Windows any longer'. It can only be a long-term goal.

Do you know what solutions exactly? People running WINE can in theory use many MS solutions, and it's a fine testing ground for compatability... I've been told by a friend who works at a certain company that produces wireless cards (and will hopefully release native linux drivers...) that they test there win driver in ndiswrapper under linux... Odd but true (AFAIK).

Qrk
March 8th, 2006, 08:23 AM
What you have to remember is that they are only changing their systems in house.
Many companies have switched over to linux based desktops even Microsoft don't use windows according to a source of mine instead they use macs how true that is I don't know but its not going to hurt IBM.

I've heard the rumor... apparently the Hotmail servers were running FreeBSD before Microsoft took over the company and it was many months before Microsoft was able to switch them over to Windows. Apparently they had several headaches along the way as well.

As for Asimon's comment, I agree. IBM isn't abandoning devolopment on Windows, or support for windows. Wine also isn't a really viable system wide enterprise level solution. It is fine for us hobbyists, but for a company that depends on their software it'd be a hard sell.

But IBM is a very large company that does more than devolop software. I'm sure that many companies will look closely at IBM's execution of the switch and consider it for themselves, IBM being the very definintion of "Blue Chip."

BoyOfDestiny
March 8th, 2006, 08:35 AM
I've heard the rumor... apparently the Hotmail servers were running FreeBSD before Microsoft took over the company and it was many months before Microsoft was able to switch them over to Windows. Apparently they had several headaches along the way as well.

As for Asimon's comment, I agree. IBM isn't abandoning devolopment on Windows, or support for windows. Wine also isn't a really viable system wide enterprise level solution. It is fine for us hobbyists, but for a company that depends on their software it'd be a hard sell.

But IBM is a very large company that does more than devolop software. I'm sure that many companies will look closely at IBM's execution of the switch and consider it for themselves, IBM being the very definintion of "Blue Chip."

In regards to wine, what I'd like to know, is it a "fact" that running windows software under windows is more stable/effective than running windows software on Linux. My own bias wants to say Linux can beat it, yet I have absolutely no proof... Unless the app is badly written or not supported (i.e. just doesn't work with wine)... Anyone have any good benchmarks?

Lovechild
March 8th, 2006, 08:43 AM
This will henceforth be known as "In your face Bill" day.

It doesn't entirely surprise me that they would switch to Linux on their machines, they bet a large part of their business on the technology, it's only good business sense to eat their own poison.

poofyhairguy
March 8th, 2006, 09:08 AM
They are the most admired company in the computer industry for a reason:

http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/mostadmired/industries/industry_114.html

niviche
March 8th, 2006, 11:03 AM
They are the most admired company in the computer industry for a reason.

And still, the same article / study has Microsoft ranked higher overall (in the general top 10).

Lux Perpetua
March 8th, 2006, 11:50 AM
What you have to remember is that they are only changing their systems in house.Right. I don't want to diminish this moment, but I don't know what we will see come out of this...

Virogenesis
March 8th, 2006, 12:18 PM
Right. I don't want to diminish this moment, but I don't know what we will see come out of this...
Exactly....why did you quote me I ain't saying anything will come out of this IBM haven't supported microsoft for some time infact most of silcon valley hate working with the company.
All it means is microsoft have lost a few thousand liceanses and thats pocket money for gates.

DrFunkenstein
March 8th, 2006, 12:42 PM
All it means is microsoft have lost a few thousand liceanses and thats pocket money for gates.

Nope, it means that IBM might show Linux is a viable solution for such a big company and more importat:


It is actually a Red Hat work station with IBM's new Workplace Client, which is built in Java on top of Eclipse. Because of Eclipse, it runs on both Linux and Windows, and they have been able to reuse the C++ code in Lotus Notes for Windows to run it natively on Linux via Eclipse. Internally in IBM, for years, they have had a need to run Lotus Notes on Linux, and now they can. And they will offer it to their customers.
Workplace uses Lotus Notes for mail, calendar, etc. and Firefox as their browser. For an office suite, they use OpenOffice.org.
That's the big news here, imho.

xequence
March 8th, 2006, 01:18 PM
They are the most admired company in the computer industry for a reason:

http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/mostadmired/industries/industry_114.html

I know im an IBM fan now ;O

Lux Perpetua
March 8th, 2006, 01:24 PM
Exactly....why did you quote me I ain't saying anything will come out of this (I quoted you to emphasize your point; my comment wasn't directed at you. Sorry, I thought it was clear.)

BoyOfDestiny
March 8th, 2006, 03:05 PM
I know im an IBM fan now ;O

Remember when they were known as "big blue"? Either way I'm a fan too, especially with the GPL to protect all that great software :)

prizrak
March 8th, 2006, 04:25 PM
For those of you saying that IBM will have to keep Windows around. That is not true at all, they have already showed how they can run Lotus on both platforms with little problem. IBM is definetly moving towards Java and other fully defined languages running in virtual machines. With IBM's switch to Linux and the Mono movement MS is in real big trouble. Everyone knows IBM and with the big push to VM technology that enables fully crossplatform software w/o recompiling alot of companies will be looking at Linux. As history shows when you conquer the business desktop you will inevitably get the home user. Many people still use Windows because their company does.
I always thought highly of IBM and I am happy that my "love" wasn't misplaced :)

Bandit
March 8th, 2006, 06:27 PM
I dont know if the article is true, but I do hope it is.
If IBM does make the move to Linux, even if it just starts out as a in house savings project. This can be a good thing.
Many companies, espeacily older companies look to IBM as the definitive of what computers are. If they (IBM) was to point out that Linux is a better answer then windows. Many companies will slowly make the transistion. Just becuase IBM says so and it makes the companies feel more comfortable know that IBM is backing a product.

Now if IBM would only make the move to AMD the world would seem a happier place.

Cheers,
Joey

imagine
March 8th, 2006, 06:41 PM
This is a hoax.

IBM uses FLOSS like Firefox, OOo, Eclipse, etc, but they are not going to dump Windows or MSO in the whole company.

Bragador
March 8th, 2006, 06:45 PM
This is a hoax.

IBM uses FLOSS like Firefox, OOo, Eclipse, etc, but they are not going to dump Windows or MSO in the whole company.

Your source being ?

DrFunkenstein
March 8th, 2006, 06:50 PM
Your source being ?
I of course can't speak for someone else, but seeing that he's also form Germany I guess:
http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/70532 (Sorry, only in German)

They are denying that they will completely switch to linux, though they are saying at the same time that some people working for IBM Germany already use Linux on the desktop.

Surely puts an other perspective on the story, but it doesn't make it a hoax, more a misunderstanding/miscommunication.

matthew
March 8th, 2006, 06:51 PM
This is a hoax.

IBM uses FLOSS like Firefox, OOo, Eclipse, etc, but they are not going to dump Windows or MSO in the whole company.If it were some random person saying so I would tend to agree, but the words in question were spoken by an IBM employee in a public place with tons of witnesses. Not generally hoax material. I think a more accurate potential objection might be that he was misinformed or not actually empowered to speak on behalf of the company, but that may even be a stretch. For my part, I'll take an optimistic wait-and-see attitude rather than dismiss the entire event/speech immediately and completely.

EDIT: The post above (#22) was made while I composed this one.

matthinckley
March 8th, 2006, 09:09 PM
Now if IBM would only make the move to AMD the world would seem a happier place.

Speaking of IBM and AMD.. this could turn interesting.. with Intel on the DRM bandwagon with Microsoft, IBM might be likely to switch to AMD for its processors.

If that happens maybe intel will see that the DRM issue might not be a good one to support.. which would be good for all of us..

mstlyevil
March 8th, 2006, 09:12 PM
Speaking of IBM and AMD.. this could turn interesting.. with Intel on the DRM bandwagon with Microsoft, IBM might be likely to switch to AMD for its processors.

If that happens maybe intel will see that the DRM issue might not be a good one to support.. which would be good for all of us..

AMD is also onboard in supporting DRM. I do not see how IBM choosing to change to AMD will affect DRM in any way.

matthinckley
March 8th, 2006, 09:19 PM
AMD is also onboard in supporting DRM. I do not see how IBM choosing to change to AMD will affect DRM in any way.
Oh I wasn't aware that AMD was supporting DRM like Intel is.. please excuse my misinformed comment..

The fact that my first comment was misinformed threw the second comment out the window... which was if IBM switched to AMD because of the new DRM technology built into Intel chips

mstlyevil
March 8th, 2006, 09:46 PM
Oh I wasn't aware that AMD was supporting DRM like Intel is.. please excuse my misinformed comment..

The fact that my first comment was misinformed threw the second comment out the window... which was if IBM switched to AMD because of the new DRM technology built into Intel chips

I could be mistaken but I believe AMD is on the same DRM board as Intel and Microsoft. I also read (but it has been awhile so I don't quite remember where) that AMD also has instructions in their CPU's to enable DRM. Hell, since Intel and AMD have a cross licensing agreement I wouldn't be surprised if it was the exact same technology.

On topic:

If my reading is correct isn't this just a in house move much like the gubuntu that google uses? I am sure IBM still offers Windows server to their customers that want it. It would be a bad business move to exclude either enterprise Windows or Linux Distros for server sales.

K.Mandla
March 8th, 2006, 10:03 PM
That does it: My next laptop will be an IBM.

Brunellus
March 8th, 2006, 10:14 PM
That does it: My next laptop will be an IBM.
except that it won't, since IBM doesn't make laptops anymore. They sold that division over to Lenovo.

K.Mandla
March 8th, 2006, 10:21 PM
Doesn't matter. I'll support a company whose ethics are in line with mine. So I'll make a point of finding an IBM and using it before picking up another brand.

Brunellus
March 8th, 2006, 10:23 PM
Doesn't matter. I'll support a company whose ethics are in line with mine. So I'll make a point of finding an IBM and using it before picking up another brand.
but the point is that there ARE no IBMs any more. They were all manufactured under license by Lenovo before, and now, after the spin-off, are wholly Lenovo products. The switchover from the IBM to Lenovo trademarks is already underway.

Big Blue doesn't do consumer hardware anymore.

K.Mandla
March 8th, 2006, 10:25 PM
Never mind.

Dark Nations
March 11th, 2006, 12:37 PM
About time.