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arnab_das
February 19th, 2010, 02:41 PM
Is Ubuntu about popularising and bringing Linux to the masses?

I'm in a doubt regarding this, coz some (many) think that Linux doesnt need to be popular, as it can never really compete with Microsoft and Apple and become a profitable venture. Hence there is no need for development in fast track (use of beta softwares in releases etc.).

I was a bit confused when a Linux user commented on this issue saying Ubuntu never really needed to be popular in the first place. I will provide a link to that page if you ask me to.

I mean whats the point of having an OS if we dont want to get users on board?

thatguruguy
February 19th, 2010, 02:51 PM
I'm pretty sure that the reason Canonical puts out Ubuntu is because they want Ubuntu to be "popularised."

Whether particular users agree or disagree with Canonical's position doesn't really matter w/r/t the corporation's policy.

Scarfnoogan
February 19th, 2010, 02:53 PM
Linux is like the movie Clerks, it has a cult following, and I do believe that it is being improved and becoming better suited for the masses(Clerks 2), no I don't think it will be as big as windows, but you know, I'd rather watch clerks than titanic

audiomick
February 19th, 2010, 03:58 PM
I'm pretty sure that the reason Canonical puts out Ubuntu is because they want Ubuntu to be "popularised."

Whether particular users agree or disagree with Canonical's position doesn't really matter w/r/t the corporation's policy.
couldn't have put it better myself.

tjoff
February 19th, 2010, 04:04 PM
"I mean whats the point of having an OS if we dont want to get users on board?"

For me the point is to have a good OS that the users like, whether they are many or few. If more users help to improve Ubuntu and the community, then it is good.

Linux gaining popularity will have some side effects, mostly good but also some not so good.
On the bright side many people will like Ubuntu and have a good experience. Also it will make more hardware manufacturers produce linux drivers, and more software companies port their products to linux.
It wil maybe also attract more developers, although the kind of people that OS development really needs, will probably already know about Ubuntu in the first place. On the other hand a larger Ubuntu adoption will also mean more malware for linux, and it will be harder to innovate and make changes in the OS, if a large user base has to be maintained.

I think that the first priority is to make a good OS. If that attracts many new users, great. If not we'll still have a good OS.

~sHyLoCk~
February 19th, 2010, 04:06 PM
Isn't it trying to be popular already?
It's the most popular distro among newbies.

neu5eeCh
February 19th, 2010, 05:36 PM
Is Ubuntu about popularising and bringing Linux to the masses?

The only way its ever going to reach the "masses" is if there is incentive (read: $) to do so. The more demand for Ubuntu, the greater the profit (potentially); the greater the profit, the more resources Canonical will have for Ubuntu's development. It's all about money. The real test for Ubuntu is not whether it can work as well as windows, but whether a company like Canonical can profit in the open source environment. If it can profit, then Ubuntu will eventually equal, if not surpass, Windows in terms of usability.


I'm in a doubt regarding this, coz some (many) think that Linux doesnt need to be popular, as it can never really compete with Microsoft and Apple and become a profitable venture. Hence there is no need for development in fast track (use of beta softwares in releases etc.).

It depends in what manner it competes. If *I* were to give advice to Canonical, it would be, initially, to focus on the OS aftermarket. Think of Windows OS has the brand new, shiny muffler on your new car. After a year or two that muffler isn't looking so good. After three years, forget about it.

When many of us go looking for a replacement muffler, we might look for less expensive alternatives. Linux is like that. Do folks really want to shell out a hundred, two hundred dollars for a new OS that might or might not work on their system, when they can replace their OS for free? Some will simply replace their computers, but not all. It's that latter group which Ubuntu should target, at least initially. Just get it onto people's HDDs.

As long as Windows is bundled with new computers, buyers see Windows in the same way they see the muffler on a new car. It's there. It might as well be free - part of the package deal. So why opt for a problematic alternative? Does anyone really take the muffler off their new car and replace it? Only the hard-core. If Linux is to make some inroads, my thinking is that it will be in the older computer market.

Having said that, all this may change with Google's Chrome OS.

I'll be interested to see how tolerant Google remains with systems like Ubuntu. Right now, the success of Linux (in general) is probably in their interest. It wakes folks up to the notion that there's a viable alternative. But what if their own improvements to Linux only serve to make Ubuntu a more competitive choice? Right now, that's all pie in the sky, but who knows...


I was a bit confused when a Linux user commented on this issue saying Ubuntu never really needed to be popular in the first place. I will provide a link to that page if you ask me to.

Canonical's survival relies on profitability. It's all well and fine for some users to posture over their hermetic preferences, but the opinions of those users are irrelevant.


I mean whats the point of having an OS if we don't want to get users on board?

What's the point of Canonical's investment in money and talent of they can't produce an OS the average user can use? None. They're working hard to make Ubuntu a viable alternative. I think they've done an amazing job so far.

samalex
February 19th, 2010, 08:22 PM
I honestly don't think any company has put forth the marketing dollars to get Linux out there. IBM did a slew of Linux commercials years ago, but that was geared at IT professionals not consumers.

Not until you see Linux commercials and ad's in mainstream media will it be anything more then a nitch to most people. I have several Linux stickers on my car, and you don't know how many times I've had to explain to people what Linux is because most people have never heard of it, even in today's world.

I really think if Canonical or whoever were to put lots of money into marketing, have TV commercials and ad's in mainstream magazines, and explain exactly what Linux is and how it can compete with Microsoft and even Apple, that may change the tide. Even if they can list some of the products currently running Linux that most people don't even know about, like routers, cell phones (Android!), etc.

It's all about giving people a great impression of Linux who have never heard of it, and changing the mindset of people who look at it as a nerd, nitch, or hobbyist OS. Regardless of whether it gets the same market share as Apple and Microsoft, if people can at least be aware that it's an option and see it in a positive light, that will help as Linux inches onto main street. And for right now I think Canonical is about the only company with the cash and incentive to do this.

Sam

arnab_das
February 19th, 2010, 08:45 PM
I honestly don't think any company has put forth the marketing dollars to get Linux out there. IBM did a slew of Linux commercials years ago, but that was geared at IT professionals not consumers.

Not until you see Linux commercials and ad's in mainstream media will it be anything more then a nitch to most people. I have several Linux stickers on my car, and you don't know how many times I've had to explain to people what Linux is because most people have never heard of it, even in today's world.

I really think if Canonical or whoever were to put lots of money into marketing, have TV commercials and ad's in mainstream magazines, and explain exactly what Linux is and how it can compete with Microsoft and even Apple, that may change the tide. Even if they can list some of the products currently running Linux that most people don't even know about, like routers, cell phones (Android!), etc.

It's all about giving people a great impression of Linux who have never heard of it, and changing the mindset of people who look at it as a nerd, nitch, or hobbyist OS. Regardless of whether it gets the same market share as Apple and Microsoft, if people can at least be aware that it's an option and see it in a positive light, that will help as Linux inches onto main street. And for right now I think Canonical is about the only company with the cash and incentive to do this.

Sam

great thought there.

i strongly agree with u. ubuntu/canonical is the only one which can do it. but is ubuntu really ready for that sort of a campaign? eg. when one sees say an ubuntu ad on tv, chances are that the person will install it. but ubuntu as of now, is not really that perfect as OS (neither is windows, but their support system is great, which is either provided by professionals or by the vendor), hence if one gets messed up its pretty much upto them to resolve the issue. (aysiu pointed it out in another thread) and although canonical does provide support, the professional support (which is the one which most people will need) is quite expensive.

maybe a year or two down the line when canonical has smoothed out a few creases, i think ubuntu will be ready for the big launch.

(btw, ubuntu has already sort of made an 'impression'. lucid lynx release was 'announced' by mark shuttleworth and not whispered :) )

katie-xx
February 19th, 2010, 09:54 PM
The real key to success is to capture a significant share of the business market.
That wont happen until IT managers can be confident that support systems are adequate
and, importantly, support costs for open source offerings can match those of Microsoft.

Its currently a lot less costly and carries significantly less risk for an IT manager to choose Microsoft products over open source products.

If we add to that the significant level of integration Microsoft can bring to a business in terms of products like Office, SQlServer, Sharepoint, etc, then its not surprising that very few IT managers will feel the need to change their procurement strategy.

There is some hope of course and, in particular, significant headway has been made in mainland Europe ..
or at least in the public sector.

Kate

squilookle
February 19th, 2010, 10:45 PM
I think it is on the right track to becoming popular. Ubuntu, and Linux in general, are getting coverage in mainstream media. That did not happen often (here in the UK anyway) as recently as 2 - 3 years ago.

My local Tesco (a mainstream supermarket!), sell 3 Linux magazines, one of which is an Ubuntu one (the others are Linux Magazine, Linux format) - so people must be buying these things and, therefore, be interested in Linux (They won't be buying them for toilet paper - they aren't cheap!)

Linux on netbooks and smart phones won't hurt it either.

In the mean time, even if Canoncal aren't actively advertising Ubuntu, they need to try and avoid the bad press that was received around the launch of Karmic ("Early Adopters Bloodied by Karmic Koala", or words to that effect on the Register.

Success and popularity are coming, but it doesn't come overnight.

katie-xx
February 20th, 2010, 12:19 AM
I think it is on the right track to becoming popular. Ubuntu, and Linux in general, are getting coverage in mainstream media. That did not happen often (here in the UK anyway) as recently as 2 - 3 years ago.

My local Tesco (a mainstream supermarket!), sell 3 Linux magazines, one of which is an Ubuntu one (the others are Linux Magazine, Linux format) - so people must be buying these things and, therefore, be interested in Linux (They won't be buying them for toilet paper - they aren't cheap!)


Agreed, Linux is much better known than ever was the case.



Linux on netbooks and smart phones won't hurt it either.


Not too sure about that one.The Netbook thing hasnt really been sustained from a Linux point of view. Most OEMs have reverted to Windows. Far too many problems and bad distributions. Smart phones yeah yeah yeah! Problem being that most people wont or dont know what the OS is.



Success and popularity are coming, but it doesn't come overnight.


I would expect Linux to be more successful than is now the case. However, we still have a major hurdle to jump in terms of cost for businesses. It really is far too expensive for companies to procure installation and support contracts.

Kate

beetleman64
February 20th, 2010, 01:42 AM
I think that Canonical want Ubuntu popularised, proved by the inclusion of Ubuntu One, restricted extras, etc. After all, they are a business and the more people use Ubuntu, the more money they will make.

aysiu
February 20th, 2010, 02:41 AM
Of course Canonical wants Ubuntu to be popular:
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1

iamwhatiseem
February 20th, 2010, 03:11 AM
Since November I have "spread" ubuntu to 8 others.
It really isn't that hard...

1) Infinity less chance of viruses.
2) Linux doesn't slow down with age, I wager that the #1 reason why people buy a new PC is because of a clogged Windows OS than with the PC itself.
3) Ubuntu doesn't take 6-7 minutes to boot up after you have had the computer for a little while.
4) A ubuntu system on your OLD computer is very likely to be faster that a brand new PC with Windows...unless you fork out some serious cash.
5) Ask them the question "What have you got to lose?"...they are about to buy a new PC, offer to install ubuntu on their old computer, you load the restricted codecs etc. for them (and lose the Win95 desert theme that none of us understand is used out of the box). Chances are - they will stay with ubuntu rather than spend the dough.

ETbluez
February 20th, 2010, 03:29 AM
Ubuntu is popular with me.
I can't believe it's FREE!

aridattebayo
February 20th, 2010, 03:40 AM
It's popular with me... I do try to recommend it to all my friends, however most of them don't have any computer skills past "Let me click on Internet Explorer" - I do tell them the greatness of linux, but I often say - "Get someone who knows how to install it to install it for you and give you help when you need it."

Most of my friends don't have the patience for trying to hack away at command lines and google to try to fix their issues. :(

sudoer541
February 20th, 2010, 04:08 AM
my best wishes to Canonical for making ubu popular!:p

Dayofswords
February 20th, 2010, 04:21 AM
(They won't be buying them for toilet paper - they aren't cheap!) [citation needed]

arnab_das
February 20th, 2010, 06:35 AM
Of course Canonical wants Ubuntu to be popular:
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1

+1 the next time i hear some blogger ubuntu doesnt need to be popular i'll cite bug 1. thanks. :)

handy
February 20th, 2010, 06:37 AM
...
I mean what's the point of having an OS if we don't want to get users on board?

Developing it & using it.

Everything else is a bonus.

Who cares how popular something is, apart from the marketroids, or insecure people?

If it exists, & you like using it, that's all that matters.

aysiu
February 20th, 2010, 06:42 AM
Who cares how popular something is, apart from the marketroids, or insecure people? Mark Shuttleworth.

handy
February 20th, 2010, 07:06 AM
Mark Shuttleworth.

He would fall into the marketroid class I guess.

Not all marketroids are beyond creativity... ;)

arnab_das
February 20th, 2010, 09:35 AM
Developing it & using it.

Everything else is a bonus.

Who cares how popular something is, apart from the marketroids, or insecure people?

If it exists, & you like using it, that's all that matters.

but unless an OS is popular dont u think it will be stagnant in terms of development? after all, more users mean more feedback, which means better quality of the product and higher user friendly quotient.

handy
February 20th, 2010, 10:49 AM
but unless an OS is popular dont u think it will be stagnant in terms of development? after all, more users mean more feedback, which means better quality of the product and higher user friendly quotient.

There are distro's that are popular with only a small percentage of Linux users, & they are great systems, with an enthusiastic user community.

I can see where the smaller more specialised distro's could even be more appealing to their users, because they are getting what they want, not what suits the largest number of users.

As far I'm concerned, GNU/Linux has long proven itself to be popular enough. The incredible speed of the ongoing development just keeps on snowballing.

Because there are so many FOSS projects, that are used in various combinations by so many distro's, everyone wins. The dev' team can all be working on a particular FOSS project, & each one of them can be doing it from a different distro.

The different brand distro's are all helping each other out whether all of their users are aware of that or not. It makes it so easy for small distro's to survive & even thrive.

squilookle
February 20th, 2010, 01:13 PM
[citation needed]

Why is a citation needed? I'm not quoting anyone or writing a Wikipedia entry.

They come to somewhere between 5 and 7 pounds. You do get a dvd with them though.

samalex
February 20th, 2010, 06:35 PM
great thought there.

i strongly agree with u. ubuntu/canonical is the only one which can do it. but is ubuntu really ready for that sort of a campaign? eg. when one sees say an ubuntu ad on tv, chances are that the person will install it. but ubuntu as of now, is not really that perfect as OS (neither is windows, but their support system is great, which is either provided by professionals or by the vendor), hence if one gets messed up its pretty much upto them to resolve the issue. (aysiu pointed it out in another thread) and although canonical does provide support, the professional support (which is the one which most people will need) is quite expensive.

maybe a year or two down the line when canonical has smoothed out a few creases, i think ubuntu will be ready for the big launch.

(btw, ubuntu has already sort of made an 'impression'. lucid lynx release was 'announced' by mark shuttleworth and not whispered :) )

I haven't used 9.10 yet, I'm still running 9.04, but if 10.04 is all it seems to be plus with them adding the App Store, Music Store, and all the other bells and whistles, if they pull it off with few problems I think it will be ready for everyone.

My only suggestion to the Canonical folks is to bundle mainstream applications where you can, for example bundle Sun Java with Ubuntu and not that Iced Tea Java. For my online college classes the online chat didn't work with Iced Tea Java and I had to remove it and download Sun Java to get it working. Likewise, use Adobe Acrobat Reader and not a FOSS equivalent. Granted this will ****-off the FOSS purists, but if we're moving across the line to have a fully functional system for the average consumer and not the computer nerd these things will need to be done as to not run people off when things don't work. There's also a comfort for some in seeing that Adobe Logo or Sun Logo when they open apps...

Outside of that I think Ubuntu is 100% ready for main stream. Unfortunately for me most of my friends and family are so wrapped around Windows there's no way I'd get them to even try Linux. Just yesterday I had a conversation with a co-worker and he still had the notion that everything was command line, which just isn't true anymore.

I remember when I retired my Dell Laptop (running Slack) in 2005 for an iBook, I had a few friends really question my sanity. When I was able to tie them down and show them what OSX was, I found out their last experience with a Mac was on OX 9 or below (one was even OS7!). Many people when they hear 'Linux' either think of old-school Unix TTY terminals or Linux of yester-year when it was mostly command line. These are the things Canonical or whoever needs to address because that's the biggest reason I think most people don't give Linux a second look -- that and so many people haven't even heard of it.

Sam

arnab_das
February 20th, 2010, 08:10 PM
I haven't used 9.10 yet, I'm still running 9.04, but if 10.04 is all it seems to be plus with them adding the App Store, Music Store, and all the other bells and whistles, if they pull it off with few problems I think it will be ready for everyone.

My only suggestion to the Canonical folks is to bundle mainstream applications where you can, for example bundle Sun Java with Ubuntu and not that Iced Tea Java. For my online college classes the online chat didn't work with Iced Tea Java and I had to remove it and download Sun Java to get it working. Likewise, use Adobe Acrobat Reader and not a FOSS equivalent. Granted this will ****-off the FOSS purists, but if we're moving across the line to have a fully functional system for the average consumer and not the computer nerd these things will need to be done as to not run people off when things don't work. There's also a comfort for some in seeing that Adobe Logo or Sun Logo when they open apps...

Outside of that I think Ubuntu is 100% ready for main stream. Unfortunately for me most of my friends and family are so wrapped around Windows there's no way I'd get them to even try Linux. Just yesterday I had a conversation with a co-worker and he still had the notion that everything was command line, which just isn't true anymore.

I remember when I retired my Dell Laptop (running Slack) in 2005 for an iBook, I had a few friends really question my sanity. When I was able to tie them down and show them what OSX was, I found out their last experience with a Mac was on OX 9 or below (one was even OS7!). Many people when they hear 'Linux' either think of old-school Unix TTY terminals or Linux of yester-year when it was mostly command line. These are the things Canonical or whoever needs to address because that's the biggest reason I think most people don't give Linux a second look -- that and so many people haven't even heard of it.

Sam

+1 noise needs to be made alright. but dont quite agree with u regarding bundling of adobe reader though. i think the default document viewer does a good job. and also, ubuntu is all about open source. that doesnt mean that one HAS to use open source stuff, but only that wherever a compatible and more importantly efficient open source alternative is available it should be included in the default CD packages. i'm not sure if sun java is open source, but yes, sun java is one package which should be included in the live CD.

handy
February 21st, 2010, 12:25 AM
The closed source stuff doesn't need to be included on the CD, it just needs to be made very easy for a new user to know this is how you download & install it.

samalex
February 22nd, 2010, 07:43 PM
+1 noise needs to be made alright. but dont quite agree with u regarding bundling of adobe reader though. i think the default document viewer does a good job. and also, ubuntu is all about open source. that doesnt mean that one HAS to use open source stuff, but only that wherever a compatible and more importantly efficient open source alternative is available it should be included in the default CD packages. i'm not sure if sun java is open source, but yes, sun java is one package which should be included in the live CD.


The closed source stuff doesn't need to be included on the CD, it just needs to be made very easy for a new user to know this is how you download & install it.

We're talking about how to Popularize Ubuntu and get it in the hands of the common computer user, are we not??? This means parting with the "it's got to be 100% open source" mentality because in some cases the freely available closed source app is just more functional and less buggy than the open source equivalent, which is what I found with Iced Tea Java compared to Sun Java. And yes you can say the freely available closed source apps are available for download or on the CD, but the average user isn't going to know how to or want to do this after a clean install.. they want to hit the ground running.

I think this is where much of the problem lies with the mentality of Linux. You have the camp of people pushing for a purely FOSS operating system, but then there's the camp wanting a fully functional operating system. I hate to say it, but unfortunately there's still a line there and many of the open source equivalents to freely available commercial software are not up to par.

The example in my prior post of taking my online class and finding that the stock Iced Tea Java that shipped with Ubuntu caused errors is a prime example. Yes I know how to gut it and install Sun Java, but it wasn't something the n00b will know how to do or want to do. And with Sun Java being freely available why not bundle what works???

I will agree that the FOSS equivalent to Adobe Acrobat works quite well. The reason I had to install Adobe Acrobat Reader for Linux was again for school where the instructor gave us worksheets in Adobe with Forms enabled. The later versions of Adobe allow you to create PDF Forms that can be saved, but I found the FOSS PDF reader didn't have this ability.

The Linux community can't have its cake and eat it too is all I'm saying. Linux is there for the common user, but whether through the hands of Ubuntu or by some vendor who makes these amendments, the stock version of Ubuntu would still cause some head scratching and frustration to many to most non-techie computer users.

Sam

murderslastcrow
February 22nd, 2010, 09:26 PM
My only suggestion to the Canonical folks is to bundle mainstream applications where you can, for example bundle Sun Java with Ubuntu and not that Iced Tea Java. For my online college classes the online chat didn't work with Iced Tea Java and I had to remove it and download Sun Java to get it working. Likewise, use Adobe Acrobat Reader and not a FOSS equivalent. Granted this will ****-off the FOSS purists, but if we're moving across the line to have a fully functional system for the average consumer and not the computer nerd these things will need to be done as to not run people off when things don't work. There's also a comfort for some in seeing that Adobe Logo or Sun Logo when they open apps...

Outside of that I think Ubuntu is 100% ready for main stream.

Does this mean Windows isn't 100% ready for the main stream yet?

Also, Acrobat Reader, while bearing the Acrobat logo, is a slow and cumbersome program. If there's a suitable open source equivalent, I think it's better to show off our own software and make use of it and improve it than to ignore it for someone else's "official" derivation. Of course, if it doesn't work, we shouldn't do this.

But, if it works better, of course we shouldn't shove something with potential legal ramifications into a default install. It's not that I'm being a FOSS purist. It's that there are patents and laws that make including things like this iffy, and we'd rather avoid that especially if it's going to improve the chances of open source software.

Go use Linux Mint if you're so hot and bothered about downloading a few spare programs.

Then again, I agree in that we shouldn't have to play around with an installation just to get it working the right way. People should be able to be lazy and still use Ubuntu is my impression. XD