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View Full Version : Moblin + Maemo = MeeGo, What do you think?



ssj6akshat
February 15th, 2010, 03:34 PM
Since Moblin and Maemo are merging Click Here (http://meego.com/).Shouldn't Ubuntu Moblin Remix be (re)named Ubuntu MeeGo Remix?

jaxxstorm
February 15th, 2010, 04:11 PM
Maemo (http://maemo.org) and Moblin (http://moblin.org) are merging to make Meego (http://meego.com)

With a unified Qt and GTK API, support for as much hardware as you can think of and directed at netbooks, smartphone and other platforms, would it be exciting to say this may move GNU/Linux and OSS into the mainstream?

Psumi
February 15th, 2010, 04:42 PM
Maemo (http://maemo.org) and Moblin (http://moblin.org) are merging to make Meego (http://meego.com)

With a unified Qt and GTK API, support for as much hardware as you can think of and directed at netbooks, smartphone and other platforms, would it be exciting to say this may move GNU/Linux and OSS into the mainstream?

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1407456

30 minutes late jaxx.

drooze
February 15th, 2010, 05:24 PM
I'm curious, can't wait for their first release...

DeadSuperHero
February 15th, 2010, 05:50 PM
So it's basically Moblin, but it uses Qt now?

lolwut.

cariboo
February 15th, 2010, 06:18 PM
Threads merged.

gletob
February 15th, 2010, 06:27 PM
What do you think about this merger? Voice your opinions!

Press Release:

Intel and Nokia Merge Software Platforms for Future Computing Devices MeeGo* enables an open ecosystem for rapid development of exciting new user experiences

NEWS HIGHLIGHTS:

• Global leaders Intel Corporation and Nokia merge Moblin and Maemo to create MeeGo*, a Linux-based software platform that will support multiple hardware architectures across the broadest range of device segments, including pocketable mobile computers, netbooks, tablets, mediaphones, connected TVs and in-vehicle infotainment systems.
• MeeGo offers the Qt application development environment, and builds on the Moblin core operating system and reference user experiences. Using Qt, developers can write once to create applications for a variety of devices and platforms, and market them through Nokia's Ovi Store and Intel AppUpSM Center.
• MeeGo will be hosted by the Linux Foundation and governed using the best practices of the open source development model. The first release of MeeGo is expected in the second quarter of 2010 with devices launching later in the year.
• Nokia and Intel expect MeeGo to be adopted widely by global device manufacturers, network operators, semiconductor companies, software vendors and developers.

ESPOO, FINLAND, and SANTA CLARA, CALIF., Feb. 15, 2010 – In a significant development in the convergence of communications and computing, Intel Corporation and Nokia are merging their popular Moblin and Maemo software platforms. This will create a unified Linux-based platform that will run on multiple hardware platforms across a wide range of computing devices, including pocketable mobile computers, netbooks, tablets, mediaphones, connected TVs and in-vehicle infotainment systems. Called MeeGo, the open software platform will accelerate industry innovation and time-to-market for a wealth of new Internet-based applications and services and exciting user experiences. MeeGo-based devices from Nokia and other manufacturers are expected to be launched later this year.

This announcement strengthens the Nokia and Intel relationship, and builds on the companies' broad strategic collaboration announced in June 2009. Intel and Nokia now invite participation in MeeGo from existing Maemo and Moblin global communities and across the communications and computing industries.

"Our vision for seamlessly communicating between computing devices from the home, auto, office or your pocket is taking a big step forward today with the introduction of MeeGo," said Intel President and CEO Paul Otellini. "This is a foundational step in our evolving relationship with Nokia. The merging of these two important assets into an open source platform is critical toward providing a terrific experience across a variety of devices and gaining cross- industry support."

"MeeGo will drive an even wider range of Internet computing and communication experiences for consumers, on new types of mobile devices," said Olli-Pekka Kallasvuo, CEO, Nokia. "Through open innovation, MeeGo will create an ecosystem that is second to none, drawing in players from different industries. It will support a range of business models across the value chain, building on the experience and expertise of Nokia, Intel and all those who will join us. Simply put, MeeGo heralds a new era of mobile computing."

MeeGo blends the best of Maemo with the best of Moblin to create an open platform for multiple processor architectures. MeeGo builds on the capabilities of the Moblin core OS and its support for a wide range of device types and reference user experiences, combined with the momentum of Maemo in the mobile industry and the broadly adopted Qt application and UI framework for software developers.

MeeGo also unites the robust worldwide Maemo and Moblin applications ecosystems and open source communities. For developers, MeeGo extends the range of target device segments for their applications. Using Qt for application development means that they can write applications once and easily deploy them on MeeGo and across other platforms, for example, on Symbian.

The Ovi Store will be the channel to market for apps and content for all Nokia devices, including MeeGo and Symbian-based, with Forum Nokia providing developer support across all Nokia device platforms. The Intel AppUpSM Center will be the path to market for Intel-based MeeGo devices from other device manufacturers, with the Intel® AtomTM Developer Program providing support for applications targeting devices in a variety of categories.

The MeeGo software platform, running on high-performance devices, will deliver a range of Internet, computing and communication experiences, with visually rich graphics, multitasking and multimedia capabilities and the best application performance. Since MeeGo runs on multiple device types, people can keep their favorite applications when they change devices, so they are not locked into one kind of device or those from any individual manufacturer.

MeeGo Hosted by the Linux Foundation

The MeeGo software platform will be hosted by the Linux Foundation as a fully open source project, encouraging community participation in line with the best practices of the open source development model. Intel and Nokia invite the respective members of Maemo.org and Moblin.org to join the combined community at MeeGo.com, as well as encouraging wider participation from the communications, computing and related industries. Developers can begin writing applications for MeeGo in Qt immediately. The first release of MeeGo is targeted for the second quarter of this year.

EDIT: Seriously I don't mind being moved, or merged. But could you maybe send a little note in a PM?

themarker0
February 15th, 2010, 06:30 PM
Well thats a quick way for me to get interested. When did they start talking about this? I was scoping their IRC for about 2 weeks (2 weeks ago :P)

Mr. Picklesworth
February 15th, 2010, 07:02 PM
Kind of a pain. Moblin uses GTK and GLib across its stack. Maemo currently does as well, but Nokia had some bizarre plan to swap that for Qt with Maemo 6. From the looks of it, they somehow intend to keep up that plan in MeeGo.

So, prepare for breakage. Again. Maybe we'll get first-class support for Telepathy from a Qt platform, at least. That would be a nice step.

Hopefully they'll actually settle on something so third party developers can invest in the platform for a change. I'm losing any hope of Nokia actually doing that, though, and it will be a shame if they bring that methodology to Intel.

cariboo
February 15th, 2010, 07:45 PM
Merged threads again.

mickie.kext
February 15th, 2010, 08:10 PM
Nice news. Screw Android and Google, I am getting Megi phone:KS.

phrostbyte
February 15th, 2010, 09:27 PM
So I assume the Moblin Clutter UI is dead? That's a shame.

DeadSuperHero
February 15th, 2010, 09:30 PM
So I assume the Moblin Clutter UI is dead? That's a shame.

I'm not so sure about this. The few screenshots they had up of MeeGo looks pretty much like Moblin's UI.

...Maybe they just used some bindings between Clutter and Qt (http://lists.o-hand.com/clutter/3014.html), or maybe they're using Qt Kinetic (http://labs.trolltech.com/page/Projects/Graphics/Kinetic) now.

nuwave
February 15th, 2010, 10:39 PM
looks very interesting

zeroseven0183
February 16th, 2010, 03:27 AM
very promising, I think

gnomeuser
February 16th, 2010, 09:18 AM
I'm not so sure about this. The few screenshots they had up of MeeGo looks pretty much like Moblin's UI.

...Maybe they just used some bindings between Clutter and Qt (http://lists.o-hand.com/clutter/3014.html), or maybe they're using Qt Kinetic (http://labs.trolltech.com/page/Projects/Graphics/Kinetic) now.

Long term it sounds like MeeGo apps will require QT, how this will fit together with Moblin's clutter based UI is so far unrevealed. They haven't really released any specifics yet nor a roadmap for this.

Overall I am displeased with the whole thing, Nokia was happily murdering Maemo on their own while Moblin was seeing relatively good buy in from other vendors. The QT standardization to me seems more like Nokia wanting to feel like they get something out of them wasting/investing millions in Trolltech. The QT switch made little sense for Maemo, it certainly makes no sense for Moblin what so ever. Yet it is going to happen.

What I am pleased to see is that the combined platform will likely retain PackageKit and Telepathy as core elements. But really the areas were they will be cooperating now they already were considering that both platforms do most of their work upstream and both are based on the idea of using stock Linux rather than an Android like Linux core plus a widely different userspace and library set.

The only place I can see it reducing work is in the security area. Both projects have had teams working on devising appropriate security solutions for their rollouts. It's a hard thing to get right and a lot of investments have happened here. Nokia e.g. presented on the Maemo 6 security model at FOSDEM a couple of weeks ago, indicating that they are far along with their solution whereas Moblin still have not really gotten to a presentable stage.

But really, on the whole, I am sad to see this. I would much rather have seen them continue to compete, have seen the natural progress of Maemo being a one trick pony leading to it dying out. Seeing Moblin release their announced phone product and being happy.

What do we have now, a mashed up cooperation which seems to have been created primarily in the minds of business people who needed to put their mark on it at all costs than by technical people in the areas where it made sense. They force a major toolkit change on anyone who invested in either platform - this is going to cost a significant amount to reinvest in MeeGo not to mention the talent you hired to work on either platform originally likely will have to be retrained for the new API (which likely is also going to come with a language change).

I forsee that this will not turn out well short term, long term having one less platform might be good but I doubt it will be worth it (and regardless one less platform still doesn't bring us down to 1 or 2 available platforms, e.g. Samsung revealed their first Bada based device on the same day as MeeGo was announced retaining the number of platforms in the wild at pre-meego levels).

nrs
February 16th, 2010, 10:32 AM
I don't understand the confusion behind a GTK+ -> Qt switch. The reasons why one might want to do that became immediately clear for me after first using it when back in the Qt3 days.

GeneralZod
February 16th, 2010, 10:41 AM
I don't understand the confusion behind a GTK+ -> Qt switch. The reasons why one might want to do that became immediately clear for me after first using it when back in the Qt3 days.

Indeed; Nokia's dissatisfaction with GTK is plainly visible here:

http://www.osnews.com/story/18444/Nokia_Pushes_for_GTK_3_0

They purchased Trolltech ~4 months later.

Pasdar
February 16th, 2010, 11:35 AM
These are companies that understand that working together on one platform will make a much stronger platform rather than having a billion OS' compete with one another over useless minimal differences.... (the sad state the 'Linux world' is in today).

Wouldn't it be great if Debian and Ubuntu were actually one company working on the same product. One product would be long term (for servers), 2 to 3 years between releases, and one would be short term, which would be the 'ubuntu' we know. The point is to have more people working on the same project, rather than having a few working on this OS, a few on another OS, etc., etc.

HappinessNow
February 16th, 2010, 11:37 AM
MeeGo Elsewhere. :p

MeeGo = Bad Choice for a Name.

Pasdar
February 16th, 2010, 11:41 AM
MeeGo Elsewhere. :p

MeeGo = Bad Choice for a Name.

It sounds better than, 'Ubuntu' which forces me to make my mouth make weird shapes to get the sounds out. Unfortunately Shuttlepants thinks he is part of a zulu tribe or something:

http://www.enviroed.co.za/images/traditional%20zulu.JPG

Sometimes he also thinks he is a Buddhist munk:

http://jadedressler.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/buddhist-monk-on-the-way-in-bago-myanmar-burma-to-get-food-into-the-bowl.jpg

Colonel Kilkenny
February 16th, 2010, 01:07 PM
Overall I am displeased with the whole thing, Nokia was happily murdering Maemo on their own while Moblin was seeing relatively good buy in from other vendors. The QT standardization to me seems more like Nokia wanting to feel like they get something out of them wasting/investing millions in Trolltech. The QT switch made little sense for Maemo, it certainly makes no sense for Moblin what so ever. Yet it is going to happen.

I just can't understand this. In what way was Nokia murdering Maemo? And if Qt instead of GTK+ doesn't make sense, I don't know what would make sense. GTK+ is struggling in Linux desktop and Qt totally murders it on mobile platforms. Where is GTK+ for Symbian? Where is progress? GTK+ has already lost the battle.



But really, on the whole, I am sad to see this. I would much rather have seen them continue to compete, have seen the natural progress of Maemo being a one trick pony leading to it dying out. Seeing Moblin release their announced phone product and being happy.
Maemo dying? You mean the Maemo that actually is in released products (and not just Nokia products)? You mean the Maemo that has been developed for years longer than Moblin? You mean the Maemo that basically formed Gnome Mobile (and brought us Hildon etc.)?

If somebody was dying, it was Moblin.



They force a major toolkit change on anyone who invested in either platform - this is going to cost a significant amount to reinvest in MeeGo not to mention the talent you hired to work on either platform originally likely will have to be retrained for the new API (which likely is also going to come with a language change).

So who has invested? Maemo side has known that Qt is coming for a long time. And even before that it was quite easy to guess. What new API? No one is forcing anybody to change toolkit or language. Although, only a fool tries to fight against Qt as it is kind of superior at this stage. And the gap between GTK+ and Qt will only grow wider as Qt gets QML & declarative ui -stuff out.

And Nokia & Intel released their plans to cooperate in last summer, so this wasn't a surprise to anybody who has actually followed Maemo/Moblin.

edit. It's Qt btw. QT is QuickTime.

gnomeuser
February 16th, 2010, 03:58 PM
I just can't understand this. In what way was Nokia murdering Maemo? And if Qt instead of GTK+ doesn't make sense, I don't know what would make sense. GTK+ is struggling in Linux desktop and Qt totally murders it on mobile platforms. Where is GTK+ for Symbian? Where is progress? GTK+ has already lost the battle.


Maemo has undergone a major redesign, right they announce the move to Qt. The platform has no stability for ISVs. It also has no uptake outside of Nokia and even there it is only used by one device is wide availablity.
I own a Nokia n810 and Nokia really doesn't support their products after release, we have gotten one major update and the device is still riddled with bugs and semi-functional hardware (the GPS situation is especially horrid here).

They have effectively mismanaged their platform, they also have Symbian to care about and that is really what the Qt move is all about. It runs on both but let's face it Symbian isn't seeing much in the way of new exciting phone releases and is likely only going to be less and less important over time from now on. Thus positioning your platform for the future based on a desire to still keep a horse with a broken leg and a breathing problem alive isn't a good decision.

If GTK is struggling on the desktop, then all those distributions that default to building their business on shipping a GNOME desktop are just figments of my imagination as is it's rapid and active development?



Maemo dying? You mean the Maemo that actually is in released products (and not just Nokia products)? You mean the Maemo that has been developed for years longer than Moblin? You mean the Maemo that basically formed Gnome Mobile (and brought us Hildon etc.)?


Years and still only some 4 devices using it, none of them outside of Nokia. Yes they use GNOME technology and have helped sponsor development of things such as Telepathy and that is a good thing. I am actually sad that Maemo never managed to get wider uptake. It was an interesting idea but it was poorly maintained and devices using it are riddled with problems and Nokia have not sent out bugfixes in a timely fashion.

Moblin for your information has been in public development since July 2007, Maemo's first release was November 2005 with the N770 (or around 1 year and 8 months - not years as you claim).



If somebody was dying, it was Moblin.


If by dying you mean that every major distro including Ubuntu has invested in it and participated in it's development. I can even go out and buy hardware with Moblin on it (MSI U135 ships with Goblin "openSUSE Moblin", with more devices having been announced).



So who has invested?


Intel, Novell, Canonical, Xandros and many others, additionally there is a wide community of volunteers who contribute to Moblin.

There very likely isn't a major distribution you can't install Moblin on right now. Maemo can't really claim to have the same availability, you pretty much as to buy a Nokia device (and as the owner of one, that is like paying to be a Beta tester).



Maemo side has known that Qt is coming for a long time. And even before that it was quite easy to guess. What new API? No one is forcing anybody to change toolkit or language. Although, only a fool tries to fight against Qt as it is kind of superior at this stage. And the gap between GTK+ and Qt will only grow wider as Qt gets QML & declarative ui -stuff out.


Citation needed for that superiority claim.

I would call replacing the recommended Moblin specific+Clutter+GTK with Qt an API change. I can continue to use gtk but likely it is going to be the same situation as is present running KDE or GNOME apps in the opposing DE, it is never going to feel the same way as the rest of the interface. The same goes for Maemo really, yes they announced the switch but look at how developers reacted. It was met with a lot of concern.



And Nokia & Intel released their plans to cooperate in last summer, so this wasn't a surprise to anybody who has actually followed Maemo/Moblin.


They announced a number of related cooperation deals around conn-man and ofono. Nothing to indicate a full on merging of the two platforms was in the works and at least Nokia have uptill 2 weeks ago at FOSDEM presented technologies as Maemo specific. Regardless in the places where it makes sense for the two platforms to cooperate that already happened thanks to both of them using a basically standard Linux install. They were all contributing to the same upstreams and talking with the community about changes they needed and were working on.

I don't see how a full on merge is an improvement over what they already did. Not from any technical point of view at least, it might have political influence in the industry. It also doesn't significantly reduce the amount of platforms vendors have to pick from.

nrs
February 16th, 2010, 04:28 PM
If GTK is struggling on the desktop, then all those distributions that default to building their business on shipping a GNOME desktop are just figments of my imagination as is it's rapid and active development? That doesn't really mean anything. I can think of dozens of relatively popular programs / libraries that're near stagnant. It means GNOME is popular. FFS there was a near crisis a few years ago over maintainer / developer shortages. 2 releases in year with the only differences being a few dialog tweaks does not count as rapid and active development. GTK+ as it stands is a dead end. That's why they're trying for 3. Time will tell if they succeed. In the end you would've had API breakage even if they stayed with it.

Islington
February 16th, 2010, 05:40 PM
I like qt because it does a better job than gtk at emulating native widgets.

Have you all seen inkscape or gimp on windows, yikes.

Anyways getting back to the point I cant wait to see this project mature.

chris200x9
February 16th, 2010, 07:14 PM
will there be an arm port?

gnomeuser
February 16th, 2010, 07:21 PM
will there be an arm port?

Yes

Regenweald
February 16th, 2010, 08:01 PM
Two commercial powerhouses, leaders in their respective fields and with programming clout collaborating on an OS. Plus they can actually *afford* to pay developers. Yeah, terrible news:rolleyes:

Edit: Qt yet again shows that it is a superior development platform. Bye bye clutter, at least it's open source. Score one for Gnome yet again.....

freakalad
April 7th, 2010, 04:41 AM
There's a compiled very, *very*, VERY early build available here (intended for netbooks): http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/devel/trunk/images/

Download & use dd to write to disk