Why do people get so passionate about a browser or an OS

[clanky]

OK, first of all, in light of the request from mods to keep the tone in the cafe civilised can we PLEASE try not to turn this into a flame war!

But seriously, why do people get so passionate about their use of a particular piece of software that they are prepared to get into a huge argument and start name calling because someone else thinks that their chosen OS / browser / text editor / etc. is not the best thing in the world ever?

I have seen so many threads here and elsewhere which turn into name calling because someone prefers windows to linux, or opera to firefox or emacs to vim etc. Why do people seem to be so incapable of just using what works best for them and letting everyone else do the same. This seems to be so widespread that it cannot just be down to a few idiots, there must be some sort of psychology behind it?

Any ideas?

And once again this thread is meant to be a discussion of the causes of flame wars, not a flame war, please don't turn it into one.

[whiskeylover]

Obsession.

[MelDJ]

boredom

[xpod]

OK, first of all, in light of the request from mods to keep the tone in the cafe civilised can we PLEASE try not to turn this into a flame war!

But seriously, why do people get so passionate about their use of a particular piece of software that they are prepared to get into a huge argument and start name calling because someone else thinks that their chosen OS / browser / text editor / etc. is not the best thing in the world ever?

I have seen so many threads here and elsewhere which turn into name calling because someone prefers windows to linux, or opera to firefox or emacs to vim etc. Why do people seem to be so incapable of just using what works best for them and letting everyone else do the same. This seems to be so widespread that it cannot just be down to a few idiots, there must be some sort of psychology behind it?

Any ideas?

And once again this thread is meant to be a discussion of the causes of flame wars, not a flame war, please don't turn it into one.

Blue or Brown anyone?

:-\"

[arnab_das]

:D passion about the software/OS. but it turns obnoxious when one's argument becomes illogical (mine sometimes does :P)

[SemiBuz]

Whiskey or Vodka ?

[Islington]

Blue or Brown anyone?

:-\"

I see what you did there.O:)

[coolbrook]

Picture the OS as a cockpit and a browser as your vehicle.

[Roasted]

No matter your preferences, stance, argument, or beliefs, you have to use what works best for you. If you're a Mac guy because OSX does what you need it to, great. The only person who should give a damn about the software you're using is you, because that's the only bottleneck where it matters.

I'm passionate about Ubuntu simply because I believe it's a very unique stance on the outlook of software development. I like how it's pretty much anti-cutthroat, and they do a lot of things I personally like - all while giving me the ability to run the OS full time as my main OS, both at work and at home with flying success.

I'll give my friends a hard time for using Windows or Apple now and then when they're trying to do something that I know can be done in Ubuntu, but at the end of the day, none of that matters.

[Tristam Green]

:D passion about the software/OS. but it turns obnoxious when one's argument becomes illogical (mine sometimes does :P)

illogical passion has a much simpler term, and it was used in Post #2. (http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=8830313&postcount=2)

[ElSlunko]

Mostly because our society is obsessed with using "the best" or at least having an idea that there is only one correct way to go about anything. Best phone, best car, best music, best games, best OS, best browser. No one wants to waste time with an inferior product. These insecurities become so powerful that they lead to an offensive behavior to belittle other competition so they are convinced of their superiority.

I feel that way anyways. Many have lost their ability to make choices on their own and need a "popular" crowd to follow. Or perhaps this was always the case, just never really had a medium to follow through. Well better stupid gadgets & OS's than something worse.

[MaxIBoy]

This is a well-noted behavior of a certain type of person. A historical example is the editor wars.

http://www.elsewhere.org/jargon/html/entry/religious-issues.html

[clanky]

Mostly because our society is obsessed with using "the best" or at least having an idea that there is only one correct way to go about anything. Best phone, best car, best music, best games, best OS, best browser. No one wants to waste time with an inferior product. These insecurities become so powerful that they lead to an offensive behavior to belittle other competition so they are convinced of their superiority.

I feel that way anyways. Many have lost their ability to make choices on their own and need a "popular" crowd to follow. Or perhaps this was always the case, just never really had a medium to follow through. Well better stupid gadgets & OS's than something worse.

I have deliberately not posted here to see what ideas others come up with, but my thoughts are along these lines. It never fails to amaze me how easily a seemingly innocuous thread on here (or any other forum) can turn nasty and the only thing I can think of is that people want to be part of a crowd.

[clanky]

This is a well-noted behavior of a certain type of person.

You say a certain type of person, but there are so many people who act like this that, to me anyway it seems like either, that certain type of person makes up 99% of humanity (at least the version of humanity that is found on internet forums) or we are all to greater or lesser degrees guilty of acting like this at times.

[schauerlich]

"Mine's bigger/better" is a very common mindset.

[MaxIBoy]

I have deliberately not posted here to see what ideas others come up with, but my thoughts are along these lines. It never fails to amaze me how easily a seemingly innocuous thread on here (or any other forum) can turn nasty and the only thing I can think of is that people want to be part of a crowd.
By "certain type of person," I am referring to the fairly limited segment of the population which actually knows what a browser or OS is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4MwTvtyrUQ

[clanky]

"Mine's bigger/better" is a very common mindset.

Yeah, that I can understand, but what I don't get is peoples' need to force that down the throats of others?

If I chose to drive an Audi because in opinion it was the bestest ever car in the world and someone else chose to drive a jaguar I would get on with it, maybe disagree with them about their choices, but wouldn't flame the hell out of them for choosing something different, most car forums I have seen don't seem to contain flame wars, but something seems to be different about computer forums, whether they are about OS's, hardware or software people seem to get really angry when someone else disagrees with them.

[estyles]

Whether you like it or not, it's not completely illogical. Unfortunately, support from hardware and software manufacturers is often a function of OS adoption. If Linux continues to be used by ~1% of desktop users, then you can expect it to be an afterthought for desktop hardware manufacturers and consumer software developers. Luckily, there is a large open source community for Linux providing kernel updates and excellent software that is often better than commercial offerings.

But having commercial software providers developing for Linux would not be a bad thing, because even if you prefer Free Software, more choices are always good, and it's not a bad thing to have the option of paying for software. Especially when it comes to games, as 1) Games are not a necessity, so it doesn't seem like a problem that you have to pay to play. and 2) You always need a new game, so more options is always more better! =)

Hardware is a different story. Having hardware supported by the manufacturer goes beyond "nice to have"... If every piece of hardware came with open Linux drivers like it comes with proprietary Windows drivers, it would eliminate a lot of work for kernel developers, and also eliminate bugs from having to reverse engineer some things. With only 1% adoption on the desktop, we will continue to see varying levels of support for desktop PC hardware.

Not that I try to force people to use Linux - talking it up too much or being overly fanboyish only serves to turn people off... As evidenced by my irrational hatred of Macs... =)

But it does cause frustration when a vastly superior OS (to my eyes) is completely ignored in favor of inferior options.

[schauerlich]

Yeah, that I can understand, but what I don't get is peoples' need to force that down the throats of others?

If I chose to drive an Audi because in opinion it was the bestest ever car in the world and someone else chose to drive a jaguar I would get on with it, maybe disagree with them about their choices, but wouldn't flame the hell out of them for choosing something different, most car forums I have seen don't seem to contain flame wars, but something seems to be different about computer forums, whether they are about OS's, hardware or software people seem to get really angry when someone else disagrees with them.

I guess some people see the software they use as a reflection of their personality. But then again, it's the same with cars...

[MaxIBoy]

Yeah, that I can understand, but what I don't get is peoples' need to force that down the throats of others?

If I chose to drive an Audi because in opinion it was the bestest ever car in the world and someone else chose to drive a jaguar I would get on with it, maybe disagree with them about their choices, but wouldn't flame the hell out of them for choosing something different, most car forums I have seen don't seem to contain flame wars, but something seems to be different about computer forums, whether they are about OS's, hardware or software people seem to get really angry when someone else disagrees with them.I'm guessing that you don't choose to drive an Audi, because it's not necessary and it's not the most cost-effective choice. That's an important distinction to make.

[clanky]

I'm guessing that you don't choose to drive an Audi, because it's not necessary and it's not the most cost-effective choice. That's an important distinction to make.

No I don't drive an Audi, it was just a random example. :)

[MaxIBoy]

No I don't drive an Audi, it was just a random example. :)Now suppose you were the type of person who just had to have an Audi. You might feel compelled to defend that, right?

But for gratis software, it's a much-different issue.

[KiwiNZ]

By "certain type of person," I am referring to the fairly limited segment of the population which actually knows what a browser or OS is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4MwTvtyrUQ

That my friend is quite often the start. It is the start of what is seen as perceived elitism. It triggers the response.

[Gallahhad]

maybe disagree with them about their choices

In my opinion, that is it right there.
I think that most of us(human beings far and wide), can not cope rationally with the possibility of being wrong, especially if it is on a subject we feel qualified on.

Whether its Browsers, Operating Systems, Cars, Religion, or Politics, or which shade of the color Blue is best, once a human being has made up their mind, that is likely to become a point of contention with any that disagree. I know I find myself exhibiting the behavior much more than I would like to admit. I continually try to remain open minded, but my ego gets in the way.

Anyway, that's my 2 copper pieces on the subject, and I'll have to arm wrestle you if you disagree :D

[ElSlunko]

I'm guessing that you don't choose to drive an Audi, because it's not necessary and it's not the most cost-effective choice. That's an important distinction to make.

But if he did and it was in his means and it was his preference, what does that have to do with anyone else?

[ElSlunko]

In my opinion, that is it right there.
I think that most of us(human beings far and wide), can not cope rationally with the possibility of being wrong, especially if it is on a subject we feel qualified on.

Whether its Browsers, Operating Systems, Cars, Religion, or Politics, or which shade of the color Blue is best, once a human being has made up their mind, that is likely to become a point of contention with any that disagree. I know I find myself exhibiting the behavior much more than I would like to admit. I continually try to remain open minded, but my ego gets in the way.

Anyway, that's my 2 copper pieces on the subject, and I'll have to arm wrestle you if you disagree :D

Very great point. I have friends who own gadgets that defend them to the end because they don't want to be wrong by using the lesser alternative. I'm pretty much the only person without a smart phone out of my friends and I dare say I'm the nerdiest.

The thing that apple has done is made these gadgets once only accessible to individuals with certain knowledge now easily usable by pretty much anyone. This has created a huge breed of "gadget gurus" who really don't know much of anything and have never previously "needed" such extensive technological dependence.

I single apple out because they've done it the best in recent history.

[swoll1980]

You say a certain type of person, but there are so many people who act like this that, to me anyway it seems like either, that certain type of person makes up 99% of humanity (at least the version of humanity that is found on internet forums) or we are all to greater or lesser degrees guilty of acting like this at times.

Most computer oriented people didn't fit in to well at school. Maybe this is a way of compensating for that. Perhaps this is why you see a lot of this kind of behavior on these forums. Lucky for me I didn't become interested in computers until my mid 20s.

[clanky]

Now suppose you were the type of person who just had to have an Audi. You might feel compelled to defend that, right?

But for gratis software, it's a much-different issue.

But here's the thing, when it's about cars people don't seem to feel this need to defend their choices. This is the whole thing I can't figure out, why do people seem to get so defensive about computer stuff much more than they do about other things? I guess there will probably never be an answer and to be honest maybe a computer forum is the wrong place to look for one because we are all a bit too close to the subject to be truly objective, but it fascinates me.

[lovinglinux]

OK, first of all, in light of the request from mods to keep the tone in the cafe civilised can we PLEASE try not to turn this into a flame war!

But seriously, why do people get so passionate about their use of a particular piece of software that they are prepared to get into a huge argument and start name calling because someone else thinks that their chosen OS / browser / text editor / etc. is not the best thing in the world ever?

I have seen so many threads here and elsewhere which turn into name calling because someone prefers windows to linux, or opera to firefox or emacs to vim etc. Why do people seem to be so incapable of just using what works best for them and letting everyone else do the same. This seems to be so widespread that it cannot just be down to a few idiots, there must be some sort of psychology behind it?

Any ideas?

And once again this thread is meant to be a discussion of the causes of flame wars, not a flame war, please don't turn it into one.

The same reason why people get into fights because of their favorite sports team. Perhaps we could call it Software Hooliganism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hooliganism).

I had my share of arguments on a couple of browser war threads, but nothing uncivilized, just healthy discussions. But I have already been wrongfully accused of starting a thread with the sole purpose of inciting arguments.

Anyway, do I dislike when people bash my favorite application? Sometimes. What I don't like is when I'm giving support to a Firefox user and someone posts "Firefox sucks...use Opera/Chrome". I guess this is how flame wars start.

Nevertheless, I have to police myself to not do the same. I have already done that on a few threads where people experience problems with Transmission, for example. Since I prefer Ktorrent and Deluge, is kind of difficult not to suggest to try them. Nevertheless, I try to at least give a solution for the Transmission problem and not just say to install another client.

[mickie.kext]

But here's the thing, when it's about cars people don't seem to feel this need to defend their choices...
That is because there is no monopoly in car industry, and no company is pushing faulty cars on 90% of people just because it can.

[NoaHall]

Because this is all serious, serious business. Now, CHROME OR LEAVE.

*It's mainly because people like to think they are right, and that people all have the same needs and feelings*

[clanky]

That is because there is no monopoly in car industry, and no company is pushing faulty cars on 90% of people just because it can.


And once again this thread is meant to be a discussion of the causes of flame wars, not a flame war, please don't turn it into one.

Come on, I said please! :)

[lovinglinux]

I think that most of us(human beings far and wide), can not cope rationally with the possibility of being wrong, especially if it is on a subject we feel qualified on.

Perhaps the ratio of perfectionist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfectionism_%28psychology%29) people is higher on software forums (I'm definitely one with the pathological form). Too many knowledgeable and perfectionist people concentrated on a single place cannot end well :)

[JDShu]

But here's the thing, when it's about cars people don't seem to feel this need to defend their choices.

Wait, are you sure?

[KiwiNZ]

The passion about an OS just does not make sense. It's just an OS . If it's doing it's job you should hardly notice it.

Choose what ever works best for you , be it Windows , Linux , OSX or BSD. What ever is best for you may not be best for the person sitting next to you, remember that. And what they chose does not make them wrong.

[thatguruguy]

*It's mainly because people like to think they are right, and that people all have the same needs and feelings*

Therein lay the problem. Of course, the BIGGEST problem is that some people make the mistake of disagreeing with ME. Which means by definition that they are very, very wrong.

[plurworldinc]

This is an easy one! No body want to be wrong. whenever you find something that works for you , you want to tell everyone, but let another person that has a bad experience or thank they have found something better and it's a flame war. I like Ubuntu, but my wife likes Linux Mint, it's the same thing in a different package, it's just what works for you...

[mickie.kext]

Come on, I said please! :)

Wait... what did I say wrong?

I just say that people are not accustomed to different things because of monopoly. You have to get in contact with different things to understand it. If Windows is on 90% computers, Windows users by default think that bigger (market-share) is better (product). So they are dismissive about other computer users and other side also bashes back.

[gsmanners]

This is Psych 101 stuff. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_influence

[saulgoode]

Why do people get so passionate about whether or not other people are passionate? This seems to be so widespread that it cannot just be down to a few idiots, there must be some sort of psychology behind it?

[Tristam Green]

Wait... what did I say wrong?

I just say that people are not accustomed to different things because of monopoly. You have to get in contact with different things to understand it. If Windows is on 90% computers, Windows users by default think that bigger (market-share) is better (product). So they are dismissive about other computer users and other side also bashes back.

There's a reason that Windows is on 90% of those computers, though. And it's not because Microsoft twisted arms to get it there.

And just because someone thinks something is better, even "passionately", it doesn't automatically mean that person dismisses the opinions of others regarding similar-classed product. It's only when that feeling crosses from "passionate" to "obsessed" and alternatively into "zealotry" that your scenario comes about.


Why do people get so passionate about whether or not other people are passionate? This seems to be so widespread that it cannot just be down to a few idiots, there must be some sort of psychology behind it?

[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_reasoning]Wait a minute...[/quote]

[matthew]

I can see a few influencing factors.


people find something they like and want others to know about it, but (unknowingly?) become overzealous in promoting it
someone becomes frustrated with something they already use and discover there is an alternative and use that alternative as a way to promote hatred against their earlier choice of product
we have an inherent tendency as humans to think that our personal experiences are universal and therefore what works best for us will work best for everyone
we have an inherent tendency as humans to think that whatever group we belong to (whether perceived or real) is better than other options--e.g. separate a group of school kids by red shirts and blue shirts and watch what happens

I'm sure there are more reasons. The only way we don't participate in this sort of stuff is by an act of the will birthed out of an awareness that the behavior is bad/counterproductive/etc.

[lovinglinux]

e.g. separate a group of school kids by red shirts and blue shirts and watch what happens

:lolflag:

[Tristam Green]

separate a group of school kids by red shirts and blue shirts and watch what happens


The blue shirts kill all the red shirts with Vulcan death grips.

Red shirts are *always* expendable.

[matthew]

the blue shirts kill all the red shirts with vulcan death grips.

Red shirts are *always* expendable.
lol :)

[Tristam Green]

lol :)

No exceptions ;)

[KiwiNZ]

What about pink shirts ? huh

What did pink shirts do?

They didnt hurt anyone

What about the pink shirts ?

[matthew]

No exceptions ;)
I think an exception should be made for Mr. Scott. If you are nice to him, he will open a bottle of 20 year old Scotch and share it with you.

[Tristam Green]

What about pink shirts ? huh

What did pink shirts do?

They didnt hurt anyone

What about the pink shirts ?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/ab/Red_vs_Blue_Donut.jpg

???

[KiwiNZ]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/ab/Red_vs_Blue_Donut.jpg

???

Thats no way to make a pink shirt:p

[dragos240]

It can be a lot of things. A few examples are fanboyism, and "I'm used to it". Fanboyism occurs everywhere, and if it exists, there are fanboy followers of it. The 'I'm used to it' reason is a common occurrence. I used to use windows exclusively, and loved every bit of it, I defended the OS and thought that OSX sucked, just because I never tried it. When I found out about linux, I was basically a fanboy, and so I bashed and bragged.

[lovinglinux]

The blue shirts kill all the red shirts with Vulcan death grips.

Red shirts are *always* expendable.

:lol:

[MasterNetra]

It can be a lot of things. A few examples are fanboyism, and "I'm used to it". Fanboyism occurs everywhere, and if it exists, there are fanboy followers of it. The 'I'm used to it' reason is a common occurrence. I used to use windows exclusively, and loved every bit of it, I defended the OS and thought that OSX sucked, just because I never tried it. When I found out about linux, I was basically a fanboy, and so I bashed and bragged.

lol Used to be a linux fanboy, its a phase, or for me at least it was. These days its more like "meh" I switch between Ubuntu and Windows 7 pending on my needs and/or wants. Sometimes do it just for the fun of reinstalling...

[t0p]

I find it interesting that a couple of forum members have used this thread as an excuse to tell us how great their choice of OS is: ie "I use Ubuntu because..." and "OSX is the best cos..." (I'm not going to name anyone; but if you look back through the thread you'll see the posts I mean). These people are so proud of their OS!

As to why OS choice gets so fiery: I think geeks (in general) are more prone to obsession; and they're also more insecure. So they obsess on the subject, and they feel a need to validate their choices.

[lykwydchykyn]

We live in a knowledge society. A large percentage of us earn our living by *knowing* things that other people don't know: case in point, just about everyone who works in information technology/information systems.

On top of that, we live in a society in which people define themselves by their careers.

Now, if my self worth is wrapped around the success of my career, and the success of my career is wrapped around the value of the knowledge I posses, it follows that my self worth is tied up in how useful my professional knowledge is.

What it boils down to is that a lot of people are personally threatened by the possible success of things they don't have knowledge of, or failure of things they do.

Even if you take the professional aspects out of it, think of how you define yourself. Favorite sports team, favorite music, hobbies, life experiences, etc. All these things represent an investment of time and knowledge, and if I'm dismissive about something you've invested yourself in, you'll likely get defensive and want to argue about it.

[ViperChief]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/ab/Red_vs_Blue_Donut.jpg

???


That, sir, is light red.

[lovinglinux]

We live in a knowledge society. A large percentage of us earn our living by *knowing* things that other people don't know: case in point, just about everyone who works in information technology/information systems.

On top of that, we live in a society in which people define themselves by their careers.

Now, if my self worth is wrapped around the success of my career, and the success of my career is wrapped around the value of the knowledge I posses, it follows that my self worth is tied up in how useful my professional knowledge is.

What it boils down to is that a lot of people are personally threatened by the possible success of things they don't have knowledge of, or failure of things they do.

Even if you take the professional aspects out of it, think of how you define yourself. Favorite sports team, favorite music, hobbies, life experiences, etc. All these things represent an investment of time and knowledge, and if I'm dismissive about something you've invested yourself in, you'll likely get defensive and want to argue about it.

Nice thoughts.

[Zoot7]

I think the main trap that enthusiastic people fall into is the opinion that just because they themselves like whatever OS/Browser or other piece of software, the whole world should use it.

[katie-xx]

There's a reason that Windows is on 90% of those computers, though. And it's not because Microsoft twisted arms to get it there.



How interesting .... do tell .. Id love to know :)

[jrusso2]

When you don't agree with someone about their personal choice they get angry because they feel your saying their choice is no good.

That's why they get defensive.

[stmiller]

This question could apply to anything in life.

Why do people get so passionate about ____

a car brand
clothing brand
shoes
golf clubs
boat anchor
tv

I think there is a sort of 'brand loyalty' that exists. After you get a good experience with a brand or product, you tend to stick with it and become passionate about it. It's probably human nature after becoming comfortable or knowledgeable from using one certain choice.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100117201353AADdqZG

:)

If you have been a long and trusted Ford user for years and someone on a forum said: "FORD SUCKS!" your instinct is probably to respond. And so flame wars begin...

[clanky]

This question could apply to anything in life.

Why do people get so passionate about ____

a car brand
clothing brand
shoes
golf clubs
boat anchor
tv

I think there is a sort of 'brand loyalty' that exists. After you get a good experience with a brand or product, you tend to stick with it and become passionate about it. It's probably human nature after becoming comfortable or knowledgeable from using one certain choice.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100117201353AADdqZG

:)

If you have been a long and trusted Ford user for years and someone on a forum said: "FORD SUCKS!" your instinct is probably to respond. And so flame wars begin...

As I have said above though, this is the whole thing that I don't understand, every car forum doesn't turn into a Ford v. Chryssler flame war, there are no designer flame wars, I have never seen anyone getting angry because someone else says that they don't like danforth anchors.

You mentioned long and trusted ford users, but with software issues it seems to be that some poeple who have used a particular OS / browser / application whatever for a few weeks are already flaming zealots. Chrome browser for instance has only been in existence for a short period of time and I have already seen people flaming others for saying that they prefer FF.

Anyways, sorry for not replying for a few days, have been at sea.

[chucky chuckaluck]

enthusiasm for inanimate objects is not easily relieved, so it tends to spill over into unreasonable conversation.

[lykwydchykyn]

As I have said above though, this is the whole thing that I don't understand, every car forum doesn't turn into a Ford v. Chryssler flame war, there are no designer flame wars, I have never seen anyone getting angry because someone else says that they don't like danforth anchors.


I can't speak for cars, but once upon a time when I was more musician than computer tech, I hung out at musician forums. You want to talk about flame wars! My brand vs. your brand, digital vs. analog, my genre of music vs. yours, my instrument vs. your instrument, etc. etc. ad nauseam.

[matthew]

I can't speak for cars, but once upon a time when I was more musician than computer tech, I hung out at musician forums. You want to talk about flame wars! My brand vs. your brand, digital vs. analog, my genre of music vs. yours, my instrument vs. your instrument, etc. etc. ad nauseam.

Oh, my goodness. That's the truth. (Musician here: I own 7 guitars and finally built my own amplifier and can officially opt out of the Marshall/Fender/Boogie/Boutique wars.)

EDIT: I still think individual pedals are better than multi-effects. </joke...well, mostly>

[lykwydchykyn]

Oh, my goodness. That's the truth. (Musician here: I own 7 guitars and finally built my own amplifier and can officially opt out of the Marshall/Fender/Boogie/Boutique wars.)

EDIT: I still think individual pedals are better than multi-effects. </joke...well, mostly>

Yeah, but do you use carbon or alkali batteries in them?

[matthew]

Yeah, but do you use carbon or alkali batteries in them?

rotfl!! It totally depends on whether or not they have a true bypass.

[madnessjack]

To the OP:

We argue because we're bored and we all love the drama and the fight if we're being honest

These things don't really matter in life and the majority of us barely know what we're talking about in the first place - it's just human nature

:P

[clanky]

To the OP:

We argue because we're bored and we all love the drama and the fight if we're being honest

These things don't really matter in life and the majority of us barely know what we're talking about in the first place - it's just human nature

:P

That is quite possibly the most honest thing I have ever seen on the internet. I would mark this as solved but if I knew how!

[Berk]

As I have said above though, this is the whole thing that I don't understand, every car forum doesn't turn into a Ford v. Chryssler flame war, there are no designer flame wars, I have never seen anyone getting angry because someone else says that they don't like danforth anchors.


You want car wars?
Australia:
Holden.
Ford.

'nuff said. ;)

I'm on the side of "there are flame wars because we're human" to be brutally honest.
As a race we suck, we get caught up in fanaticism, even myself, when the Rugby is on will quite happily shout abuse at people wearing the other countries colours. I'm not even that patriotic, but I do like to see England do well in the Rugby. ^^
I've seen defence mentioned too, and I agree with that, people want to defend their choices, they want to know in their mind that they did do the right thing, and admitting that maybe another * is better would show that up.

My tuppeny bit anyhow.

[handy]

I think you should have used the following title:

Why do some people get so passionate about a browser or an OS?

I think that the same people will be prone to being defensive about many things. They are also very likely nationalistic; & support other forms of teams - all of which is segregation in the end.

Generally, these people are the people that discriminate.

Personally I much prefer the attitudes that support unity.

In the end those that segregate & those that don't & everything in between, are all one anyway.

We live & we learn, oh so slowly (learn slowly that is).

[scouser73]

I think the reason people are so passionate about browsers or operating systems is that it's the lifeblood for work, entertainment & relaxing. What I mean by this is that Computers are used more than to "Compute", people have the choice to listen to Music or Radio, watch Television programs or YouTube and communicate with friends and family spread far and wide.

To be passionate about the choice of browser a person uses or what operating system they use, really matters these days when there is so much choice.

From a personal perspective, I remember using Windows XP and really enjoying the experience of the internet and amassing a large music & video library, but there were and still are pitfalls due to the fact that you notice when the PC is becoming slower and unresponsive, often leading to many BSODs.

When I switched to using Ubuntu, it became a learning curve to me but one that I have come to appreciate and partly understand with regards to how the system works and just how secure it is.

I don't want to go back to the PC having been infected for the umpteenth time by viruses & malware, I want my system to be free of the constraints of Anti-virus & Firewalls & to enjoy what the operating system & the browser can do for me.

This can also be said about users of different operating systems, so for me this is where my passion lies, in the choices I've made and how I go about getting the best computing experience I can possibly have.

[MCVenom]

Why do people get so passionate about whether or not other people are passionate? This seems to be so widespread that it cannot just be down to a few idiots, there must be some sort of psychology behind it?
Agreed.

[HappyFeet]

something seems to be different about computer forums, whether they are about OS's, hardware or software people seem to get really angry when someone else disagrees with them.

You must not frequent other forums much, because it happens on many different types of forums, not just computers. Go to a sports forum some time, and you'll see it can be much worse.

[undecim]

AFAICT, the vi/emacs wars are mostly tongue-in-cheek. Though it's really annoying having to use emacs when you are ssh'd to server without vim or vi. Some people take it too seriously.

However, it's a serious problem when others use insecure software (read "Internet Explorer" or "Windows") on the internet, because that lets attackers create botnets, spam, and illegal stuff.

Not only that, but a lot of people who try to use secure software get shunned for it. My mom still uses windows for printing online coupons because she has to use IE for it. Not even user agent switching fixes that. (I've set up her Firefox to use the IE tab plugin on that page though). The reason for this is that companies have to either switch to a multi-platform language like Java, or develop for multiple platforms, both of which will cost them money. If they aren't' making enough money in return to make up for that, they won't do it. This applies to third part apps, hardware, web pages... anything that someone makes money from.

Once Linux or Firefox have the market share though, we will see more support, because it will become profitable. With profitability comes more support, and with more support comes more profitability. That viscous cycle just needs a big push to get started, and everyone who uses it will be happier.

[koshatnik]

OK, first of all, in light of the request from mods to keep the tone in the cafe civilised can we PLEASE try not to turn this into a flame war!

But seriously, why do people get so passionate about their use of a particular piece of software that they are prepared to get into a huge argument and start name calling because someone else thinks that their chosen OS / browser / text editor / etc. is not the best thing in the world ever?

I have seen so many threads here and elsewhere which turn into name calling because someone prefers windows to linux, or opera to firefox or emacs to vim etc. Why do people seem to be so incapable of just using what works best for them and letting everyone else do the same. This seems to be so widespread that it cannot just be down to a few idiots, there must be some sort of psychology behind it?

Any ideas?

And once again this thread is meant to be a discussion of the causes of flame wars, not a flame war, please don't turn it into one.

I've often wondered this too. They are just tools to get something done, don't know why people get so entrenched about it and feel the need to evangelise. I get it all the time with camera's as well in my profession. It's everywhere I'm afraid. Alot of people like obssessing over things that arent important. Maybe they need to get out more.

[handy]

It is just the reptilian brain coming to the fore again.

That there reptilian brain has got a lot to answer for.

I personally think it is where most extremists/fundamentalist are coming from.

Generally, all those who have the need to dominate are being governed by the reptilian brain.

Unfortunately, that means that our world is being run by people with a prehistoric mentality.

You can probably tell that I don't have much respect for the way that they are running the place.

Dog eat dog & cat eat mouse...


http://www.crystalinks.com/reptilianbrain.html