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Kdar
February 12th, 2010, 11:58 PM
At my University (UAH) there was just a shooting about 1 hour ago, at 4pm. Never expected something like this happen at my University...
3 or more are dead, plus several are in critical condition...

Why the hell people who tired of their lives try to **** up someone else lives in this way? especially recently it seems popular.. happening almost everywhere.

Yvan300
February 13th, 2010, 12:00 AM
I wonder what was his motivation?

srt4play
February 13th, 2010, 12:01 AM
The explanation for something like this is always very easy and that is that there are and always will be crazy people out there.

kyle99
February 13th, 2010, 12:02 AM
I wonder what was his motivation?

I think it was a girl.

Kdar
February 13th, 2010, 12:02 AM
Some reports tells that it even was done by some stuff or professor (or wife and husband? some sources tell there are two suspects).

Satoru-san
February 13th, 2010, 12:02 AM
I feel really bad for the families of those that were lost. You didn't know any of them did you?

:(

Kdar
February 13th, 2010, 12:05 AM
I am not sure. The building that it happened is mainly for science majors and I am in engineering and most of my friends are from engineering build.
But I hope no one that I know was hurt in this. I called several of my friends. They are ok.
I am also feel very bad for those people that died and their families, especially if some of those people are young students.
No names are given of people that were affected by this.

SuperSonic4
February 13th, 2010, 12:06 AM
Why the hell people who tired of their lives try to **** up someone else lives in this way? especially recently it seems popular.. happening almost everywhere.




The 2nd Amendment.


Only two university shootings have happened outside of the US in a long time - one in Finland and one in Germany

Kdar
February 13th, 2010, 12:11 AM
[I]


The 2nd Amendment.


Only two university shootings have happened outside of the US in a long time - one in Finland and one in Germany

You might be right. I hate that anyone can get guns here.

Especially its scary when you hear some comments from some country people here like..."get my gun and fight for my freedom". He was normal.. but sometimes not very bright..

matthew.ball
February 13th, 2010, 12:14 AM
I'm so sorry to hear about this Kdar.

For me personally, just knowing there was a shooting at my school would make me feel very awkward.

I hope you are ok, and if you ever feel any issues arise, please go see someone as early as possible.

Icehuck
February 13th, 2010, 12:19 AM
Shootings and slayings have been going on for years at universities. There are a lot of people who do not adjust well to university life. The internet and the news stations just make the information more accessible these days.

There needs to be a better way to identify potential problems, but it can't intrude on peoples rights.

mips
February 13th, 2010, 12:23 AM
Shootings and slayings have been going on for years at universities.

It's more a localised thing for you guys.

blur xc
February 13th, 2010, 12:43 AM
http://www.allsafedefense.com/news/International/BritvsUSA.htm
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/798708/posts

Post Monkeh
February 13th, 2010, 12:43 AM
Why the hell people who tired of their lives try to **** up someone else lives in this way? especially recently it seems popular.. happening almost everywhere.

because their warped sense of reality makes them want to leave a legacy, and since it's too hard to leave a legacy bu working hard and achieving something noteable, they do the one sure fire thing that'll get them in the news and kill a few people.

if the previous cases didn't get all the publicity then no one else would do it, but it's hardly the kind of thing that can just be swept under the carpet so we're in a catch 22 situation.

MaxIBoy
February 13th, 2010, 12:50 AM
Because it is a school, from my understanding firearms are prohibited from the campus even if you have licenses for them (can anyone confirm this? Is this just only California?) So it was already illegal for the murderer/murderess to have a gun. But it was also illegal for the victims to be armed enough to defend themselves. The result is that those who are willing to violate the law will always have the upper hand.



In any case, this is horrible. My condolences to the friends and family of those who were killed, and also those who will need to brave the oncoming Inquisition. Stay strong.

SuperSonic4
February 13th, 2010, 12:53 AM
Because it is a school, from my understanding firearms are prohibited from the campus even if you have licenses for them (can anyone confirm this? Is this just only California?) So it was already illegal for the murderer/murderess to have a gun. But it was also illegal for the victims to be armed enough to defend themselves. The result is that those who are willing to violate the law will always have the upper hand.



In any case, this is horrible. My condolences to the friends and family of those who were killed, and also those who will need to brave the oncoming Inquisition. Stay strong.

It's illegal the second you pull out the gun. Only those with military like reflexes will be able to draw and fire beforehand. Banning guns would reduce the frequency of shootings.

jwbrase
February 13th, 2010, 12:55 AM
I recently heard that twice within five days two separate kids brought guns to the High School I graduated from. One of the two times the weapon was loaded. Neither weapon was fired, but...

witeshark17
February 13th, 2010, 01:00 AM
Sorry about the news.

blur xc
February 13th, 2010, 01:02 AM
It's illegal the second you pull out the gun. Only those with military like reflexes will be able to draw and fire beforehand. Banning guns would reduce the frequency of shootings.

School shootings are only one instance of gun violence. For this kind of completely random act, having other armed citizens would probably not have helped the first victim, but the longer the episode the better change of lives being saved. A shooting spree can only go on so long when law abiding citizens can shoot back.

In many other cases, more common cases, responsible gun ownership prevents crime. The problem is that in most cases, if a crime is detered, it doens't get reported and statistics don't get counted. Most (I heard somwhere if memory recalls, 90%-ish) of crimes deterred by a firearm are done w/o ever firing shot. Brandishing a weapon is enough to get your average street criminal to look for an easier target.

My brother went through a bad spell w/ drug abuse and resorted to burglarizing to get money for drugs from time to time. He said his greatest fear was breaking into a someone's house who was armed and getting shot.

Last time I checked people were killing people long before guns were invented.

I'm sorry these sort of things happen- but the problem isn't guns.

BM

MaxIBoy
February 13th, 2010, 01:05 AM
It's illegal the second you pull out the gun. Only those with military like reflexes will be able to draw and fire beforehand. Banning guns would reduce the frequency of shootings.I was going to refute this part, but Blur XC did a much better job than I did. I can only add that the first person to draw doesn't always get the first shot in (source.) (http://sciencenow.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/2010/203/1)
Banning guns would reduce the frequency of shootings.It's a mistake to think so. Someone who is capable of murder is almost certainly capable of illegally obtaining a firearm. Where there is demand, there will be supply. There is a lot of gun-running in Mexico from what I know. Failing that and given a machine shop, it's not exactly hard to roll your own from plans on the Internet (I won't link to any, but a google search for "DIY firearms" would get you started.)

Banning guns might cut down on manslaughter, but more-rigorous training could have the same effect.

Kdar
February 13th, 2010, 01:07 AM
Recent updates tell that victims and a shooter were professors and stuff.
Some professor opened fire during biology faculty meeting. Reason? "One report indicates the shooter was a faculty member who was denied tenure earlier in the day.", from news sources.

Gallahhad
February 13th, 2010, 01:08 AM
My condolences to the families, students, and other staff that were affected by this tragedy.

For those who feel a need to use situations like this for political view points about gun rights, please, at least for now, don't. It's too soon, and it comes off for some of us as disrespectful of the dead.

Post Monkeh
February 13th, 2010, 01:10 AM
removed after reading the previous post

MaxIBoy
February 13th, 2010, 01:11 AM
Recent updates tell that victims and a shooter were professors and stuff.
Some professor opened fire during biology faculty meeting. Reason? "One report indicates the shooter was a faculty member who was denied tenure earlier in the day.", from news sources.Oh wow. This is a big surprise: murderers tend to be far stupider than the average person, not professors.

Once again, my condolences to all parties involved.

blur xc
February 13th, 2010, 01:11 AM
it may prevent some types of crime but it sure doesn't prevent gun crime, and in many cases the mere fact that someone is there will deter a crime. most burglars are cowards anyway and if someone catches them in the act they'll run rather than fight. if a gun was introduced, the burglar that will run will still run, but the burglar who wants to fight it out is the type of person who wouldn't think twice about killing you, and i know people talk about protecting their property, but it takes a special kind of upstanding citizen who's comfortable shooting someone just because they're stealing something.

guns are useful and even necessary sometimes, for instance if someone lives in an isolated area, but unless there is a real danger of being attacked, introducing a gun to the equation can just lead to a minor incident turning into a major one. the more guns there are in a society, the more people will get shot. that is an indisputable fact.

Really? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Switzerland

BM

Tristam Green
February 13th, 2010, 01:13 AM
Wow. My heart goes to you and to the family of those faculty members, OP.

Post Monkeh
February 13th, 2010, 01:17 AM
Really? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Switzerland

BM

deleted my previous post as i think the other guy was right and this isn't really the place, but i'd respond to that by saying that switzerland and america are two totally different places. poverty fuels crime, simplifying things, there is more poverty in america than there is in switzerland, which will lead to more crime. fill a country that will already have a high crime rate with a way for people to relatively easily obtain guns, and you will undoubtedly end up with more people being shot.

i'll not say anything more on the subject here, feel free to open another thread and i'll try to explain my viewpoint a little better on monday if i get a chance

pwnst*r
February 13th, 2010, 01:18 AM
I wonder what was his motivation?

Motivation not needed if you're mentally ill.

SuperSonic4
February 13th, 2010, 01:28 AM
Motivation not needed if you're mentally ill.

There's always a motivation. If the shooter was mentally ill it could be that they thought the unicorn was waiting for them after shooting 10 people. It's ludicrous to you and me but motive nonetheless

The Toxic Mite
February 13th, 2010, 01:36 AM
I feel really bad for the families of those that were lost. You didn't know any of them did you?

:(

I second that :(

R.I.P.

zekopeko
February 13th, 2010, 04:27 AM
Really? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Switzerland

BM

You're kidding right? Did you even read the link?

Switzerland has 0.56 deaths with firearms per 100 000, USA 2.97.
It's apparent that they are far more responsible with guns then USA. Mandatory militia training certainly instills proper gun procedure.
Not to mention that they are far more civilized toward their fellow countrymen.

Sporkman
February 13th, 2010, 04:46 AM
IIRC, in Florida you can shoot someone by simply feeling threatened by them!

Maybe the shooter felt threatened.

Kdar
February 13th, 2010, 05:35 AM
Some news said my Universities (or someone from University) tried to steal her ideas and research work. That's could trigger something like this, I guess. If you work on something all your life.

swoll1980
February 13th, 2010, 06:18 AM
It's illegal the second you pull out the gun. Only those with military like reflexes will be able to draw and fire beforehand. Banning guns would reduce the frequency of shootings.

Conceal carry laws don't allow you to arm your self in public buildings, and I seriously doubt the shooter had a conceal carry anyways. All this proves is that, if guns were banned, the shooter would have had to have broken 1 extra law to achieve his objective.

swoll1980
February 13th, 2010, 06:27 AM
You're kidding right? Did you even read the link?

Switzerland has 0.56 deaths with firearms per 100 000, USA 2.97.
It's apparent that they are far more responsible with guns then USA. Mandatory militia training certainly instills proper gun procedure.
Not to mention that they are far more civilized toward their fellow countrymen.

Perhaps this has something to do with cultural differences. The glorification of violence, tv, rap music, video games, and such.

FoxXxwp
February 13th, 2010, 07:06 AM
I think it was a girl.

Probably not worth taking other people's lives for then...

JDShu
February 13th, 2010, 08:03 AM
Probably not worth taking other people's lives for then...

I think s/he means that the shooter was a woman.

TuckLive
February 13th, 2010, 09:03 AM
I am alumnus at UAH. This is a tragic event. My condolences to the families involved.

It's unfortunate that these tragic events overshadow events where armed citizens deter a potential crime, but that is our news media of today. Those who are in favor of a gun ban don't understand that criminals will always have a gun/knife and a ban will only hurt/unarm a responsible citizen.

Sad day indeed.

Here is a local link for the story:
http://www.al.com/huntsville

Hallvor
February 13th, 2010, 10:27 AM
Yes, the gun itself is not the problem. It is always about the idiot pulling the trigger.

Just like Switzerland, Norway has one of the highest gun densities in the world but very few murders with guns. The law is very strict in my opinion, but we have long traditions for hunting and sports shooting.

People here usually use knives to kill eachother.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Norway
http://pub.tv2.no/nettavisen/innenriks/article544110.ece

Post Monkeh
February 13th, 2010, 12:07 PM
criminals will always have a gun/knife

no, they won't. a criminal will carry such things as he needs to feel safe.
if someone is going to burgle a house in my country (northern ireland, which has a long history of violence let me add) they NEVER take a gun. the only time guns are ever involved in robberies here is when the sole purpose is either to threaten someone into giving money, or to kidnap someone. even then, guns are actually rarely used. the point is that guns are only carried if the criminal feels he'll need it. very few civillians in this country are armed, so our common criminal doesn't feel the need to carry a weapon such as a gun.
put that same criminal in a country where any citizen can potentially have a gun and things change. the same person, who you couldn't really describe as nice for robbing people's houses, but he isn't exactly public enemy number one, now finds himself in a situation where if he's breaking into someone's house, he feels the need to carry a gun to defend himself.

in situation number one, if the burglar gets disturbed, unless he's an evil git who would intentionally kill the person who disturbed him, chances are he'll either run, or maybe try to knock out the home owner and then run.
in situation number 2, 2 guns are introduced to the equation and the same person who would have just ran now finds himself fearing for his life, with a gun in his hand.

how anyone can't think that is a far more dangerous situation is beyond me.
yes, some people will just kill people anyway, but if they're going to do that, no law is going to stop them. what the gun laws do is give your odc (ordinary decent criminal) a need to carry a gun, where in countries without widespread gun ownership, they wouldn't have to carry.
no doubt people will use the argument that the criminals are still the ones to blame, which they are, but what widespread gun ownership does is turns minor crimes into major ones.

Post Monkeh
February 13th, 2010, 12:11 PM
Yes, the gun itself is not the problem. It is always about the idiot pulling the trigger.

Just like Switzerland, Norway has one of the highest gun densities in the world but very few murders with guns. The law is very strict in my opinion, but we have long traditions for hunting and sports shooting.

People here usually use knives to kill eachother.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Norway
http://pub.tv2.no/nettavisen/innenriks/article544110.ece

different mentalities, different cultures, different countries.

you summed it up yourself, gun ownership for your country is because of hunting traditions. while i'm sure a lot of americans are the same, there are also a large number who have guns for protection. protection from people, half of whom wouldn't be carrying a gun if they didn't feel that everyone else would be carrying one. it's a vicious circle.

gn2
February 13th, 2010, 12:22 PM
Yes, the gun itself is not the problem. It is always about the idiot pulling the trigger.

But in a society which is awash with firearms it's much easier for idiots to get hold of them, or if an idiot normally has access to them or routinely carries them the idiot can easily use them.

If the idiot finds it harder to get a firearm he is less likely to get or use one.

The worst mass murder firearms case in my country was in a primary school in Dunblane.
It was perpetrated by an idiot who had access to lawfully owned firearms and he was a habitual user of firearms.
Had he not had firearms or routinely used them, the Dunblane massacre would not have happened.

TuckLive
February 13th, 2010, 02:18 PM
yes, some people will just kill people anyway, but if they're going to do that, no law is going to stop them.

You made my point. With that I don't want to be unarmed.

dragos240
February 13th, 2010, 02:36 PM
I think I'm afraid to go to collage now.

iponeverything
February 13th, 2010, 02:48 PM
I think I'm afraid to go to collage now.

Decisions based on fear are not going to get you far. Death is going to find all of us one day, you can't hide from it, so you might as well get out there and enjoy life.

It's better to have 10 good years than 100 crappy ones.

tjwoosta
February 13th, 2010, 03:50 PM
People always seem to disregaurd the obvious in these type of incidents.

The vast majority of school shootings are just regual kids, some even honor roll students, who constantly get picked on and put down by everyone around them. Were not talking about just any ordinary insane people who like to kill or something. Were talking about peers, the kids we grew up with, who have just been pushed and pushed to the brink of insanity. Eventyally the anger is unleased, and all people can do is scratch their heads as to why something like this happens. Ill tell you why it happens, It happens because of ignorant pricks who enjoy spending thier days pushing people around and tearing them down.


I totally blame school shootings on bullying, ****** parenting, and ignorant teachers. The sad thing nobody does a damn thing about it. They say something like "its just the natural order working itself out". I have seen countless times where people were getting picked on and pushed around, only to have the teacher act as if nothing was wrong.

Well let me ask you this, if bullying is the natural order working itself out, what would you call it when the victim gets fed up and puts a bullet in the bullies brain?

Berk
February 13th, 2010, 03:58 PM
Except posts in this thread seem to be saying it was a professor that did the shooting this time.

mips
February 13th, 2010, 04:19 PM
I totally blame school shootings on bullying, ****** parenting, and ignorant teachers. The sad thing nobody does a damn thing about it. They say something like "its just the natural order working itself out". I have seen countless times where people were getting picked on and pushed around, only to have the teacher act as if nothing was wrong.

All these things happen in other countries as well yet people don't go around shooting each other all the time like in the US. If this happens outside of the US it's a rare thing.

sdowney717
February 13th, 2010, 04:20 PM
I totally blame school shootings on bullying, ****** parenting, and ignorant teachers.

remember the movie Carrie?
angst and revenge.
Strong emotions are played out in these types of shootings.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0074285/

rottentree
February 13th, 2010, 05:15 PM
Although bullying, ****** parenting, and ignorant teachers can be factors in these unfortunate outbursts it's a bit simplifying to leave out other parts of a person's life from it.

Also calling these people idiotic is a pretty sad thing to do as is the fact they have to resort to killing themselves/others in order to feel better.

ramblinche81
February 13th, 2010, 07:31 PM
You might be right. I hate that anyone can get guns here.

Especially its scary when you hear some comments from some country people here like..."get my gun and fight for my freedom". He was normal.. but sometimes not very bright..

I do believe guns should NOT be allowed on campus. I hate to say, our times were a little different. There may be some validity to the idea violence on TV has desensitized some people, or made the already delusional feel it is normal to have a violent reaction to a challenge in life.

I went to a significant major metropolitan engineering college in the 70's and had a shotgun in my dorm room, and several other residents on campus had weapons as well. We all hunted. I am quite confident that would not be tolerated in this day and age.

Yet no shootings by students or faculty and a weapon was never displayed in anger or any inappropriate situation. My school was loaded with those good old boys from the country.

Switzerland has as many as a quarter to half a million or more citizens with automatic weapons in their home as part of compulsory national defense and is violence free compared to our society.

I wish I knew what the answer is to prevent violence and bloodshed, but banning guns overall isn't the best solution to the root cause of the problem.

perce
February 13th, 2010, 07:34 PM
Conceal carry laws don't allow you to arm your self in public buildings, and I seriously doubt the shooter had a conceal carry anyways. All this proves is that, if guns were banned, the shooter would have had to have broken 1 extra law to achieve his objective.

The shooter would have had a harder time to find a gun. Sure if you are a professional criminal, you will always be able to buy guns on the black market, but if you are only a mentally disturbed people, gun control will most probably prevent you to have a gun.

perce
February 13th, 2010, 07:36 PM
Only two university shootings have happened outside of the US in a long time - one in Finland and one in Germany

I know about two in Canada.

perce
February 13th, 2010, 07:38 PM
I wonder if life in American schools is so miserable for some people that they remain traumatised for the rest of their lives. There must be a reason why people shoot so much more often in schools than in shopping malls.

jflaker
February 13th, 2010, 07:46 PM
Ban guns! Great, then the law abiding citizen will be left unarmed against the criminal who will ALWAYS be able to get guns.....GREAT IDEA!

run background checks before gun purchases....only works if the person was previously caught!

Run psychological tests...Yeah, not many will pass but that doesn't mean they are insane. Not very reliable

If it isn't a gun, it will be another weapon...maybe explosives.

If anyone was to run the numbers of deaths and causes, you would find that death by firearms are low on the list and death by auto or other means is way higher.

It isn't happening more, we are just more informed so we see more of it.

Normally sane people will crack, maybe more people need to be armed. Many US states that allow open and/or concealed carry have relatively low crime rates. Compare to states with restrictive gun laws, like New york and New Jersey and you will see shootings are rampant. In Texas, you have the high probability of being shot if you pull a gun....

perce
February 13th, 2010, 07:50 PM
Ban guns! Great, then the law abiding citizen will be left unarmed against the criminal who will ALWAYS be able to get guns.....GREAT IDEA!


There are three categories of potentially dangerous people: professional criminals, petty criminals, and mentally disturbed people. Only the first group is going to have a gun anyway, and very few honest citizens are able to effectively defend themselves against professional criminals.

jflaker
February 13th, 2010, 08:09 PM
There are three categories of potentially dangerous people: professional criminals, petty criminals, and mentally disturbed people. Only the first group is going to have a gun anyway, and very few honest citizens are able to effectively defend themselves against professional criminals.

You have a point.

I do believe that you should need to qualify with your firearm, much like a police officer does, to at LEAST marksman before you are allowed to carry.


I would want the fighting chance to defend myself than to be totally defenseless against such attack.

Sporkman
February 13th, 2010, 08:10 PM
If it isn't a gun, it will be another weapon...maybe explosives.

If anyone was to run the numbers of deaths and causes, you would find that death by firearms are low on the list and death by auto or other means is way higher.


Then why do you insist on gun rights? Why don't you use one of the many available weapons out there? Use a knife, your car, or explosives to protect yourself. All those alternative weapons that criminals will use against you, you can also use against the criminals.

Why this fixation on keeping guns legal, when there are so many other weapons out there?

jflaker
February 13th, 2010, 08:25 PM
Then why do you insist on gun rights? Why don't you use one of the many available weapons out there? Use a knife, your car, or explosives to protect yourself. All those alternative weapons that criminals will use against you, you can also use against the criminals.

Why this fixation on keeping guns legal, when there are so many other weapons out there?

Simply...I don't insist on my right, I DEMAND it.

No one should need to explain why they exercise their constitutional rights, much like you shouldn't need to explain why you want exercise your freedom of speech. That freedom is allowing this exchange....Regardless of whether another person agrees with you or not.

It is my constitutional right to own a firearm as it is your right to decide not to. If I decide to own a firearm, it is my responsibility to use (or refrain from using) that firearm in a manner that will not break other laws. It is also my responsibility to ensure that any use of that firearm does not result in collateral damage/injuries.

I choose not to own a firearm. But no person should prevent my choice just because they don't agree.

robertneville777
February 13th, 2010, 08:26 PM
First of all, my heart goes out to all the parents mourning their kid's sudden death. God comfort them...

But as a side note, banning guns is like putting a band-aid on a snake-bite. It looks promising, but it won't do jack in reality.

Think about it. How many gun laws did they break entering that building? Oh yeah, I'm totally with you. Two more gun laws are totally going to stop them.

How many times do you hear people getting shot in those backwood States like Texas and Montana where people are totin' guns left and right? Now compare that to the East Coast states where gun laws are stricter, where crime is rampant. Or Australia where their crime rate is through the roof.

How many times do you hear someone go onto a military installation and shoot someone? (And the few times it does happen, the media just loves to jump on that) It's because you know that once you fire off that shot, you're going to get shot yourself real soon.

Which grocery store are you going to rob? The store full of citizens you know are not allowed to carry firearms, or the store in which any number of them could be packing a sidearm?

America needs her guns back, and her capital punishment back. The penalty for stealing in Islamic states is cutting the criminal's hand off. You going to steal there?

t0p
February 13th, 2010, 08:26 PM
I wonder if life in American schools is so miserable for some people that they remain traumatised for the rest of their lives. There must be a reason why people shoot so much more often in schools than in shopping malls.

Are there really more often shootings in schools than in shopping malls? That sounds like an anecdotal "statistic" to me.

robertneville777
February 13th, 2010, 08:30 PM
Simply...I don't insist on my right, I DEMAND it.

No one should need to explain why they exercise their constitutional rights, much like you shouldn't need to explain why you want exercise your freedom of speech. That freedom is allowing this exchange....Regardless of whether another person agrees with you or not.

It is my constitutional right to own a firearm as it is your right to decide not to. If I decide to own a firearm, it is my responsibility to use (or refrain from using) that firearm in a manner that will not break other laws. It is also my responsibility to ensure that any use of that firearm does not result in collateral damage/injuries.

I choose not to own a firearm. But no person should prevent my choice just because they don't agree.

You couldn't have said it any better jflker.

@those opposed to gun ownership...
You don't like America's Constitution? Then move to another country!
Where their gun laws are strict, like you like them. And where their crime rate is soaring.

perce
February 13th, 2010, 08:47 PM
@those opposed to gun ownership...
You don't like America's Constitution? Then move to another country!


Those who are US citizens and oppose gun ownership have the RIGHT to try to change their country for what they think it is the best. The same right you have to keep and bear arms. Inviting them to move to another country (where they may not even be allowed to live and work because of immigration laws) is very rude toward them.



Where their gun laws are strict, like you like them. And where their crime rate is soaring.

Like Europe? http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_percap-crime-murders-per-capita I think you are badly misinformed

Mr. Picklesworth
February 13th, 2010, 09:29 PM
Are there really more often shootings in schools than in shopping malls? That sounds like an anecdotal "statistic" to me.

My school is in a shopping mall. And regularly surrounded by druggies!
Peaceful place, though :)


You don't like America's Constitution? Then move to another country!
Where their gun laws are strict, like you like them. And where their crime rate is soaring.Like Canada?

bapoumba
February 13th, 2010, 09:38 PM
I'm closing the thread for review. Quite hard to keep politics out of it, isn't it ?

Grenage
February 13th, 2010, 09:41 PM
Score one for the firearm industry and state rules including Joe public in their militia.

Sad story for the school. While I am glad we don't have many guns in the UK (yay), I imagine it would at this point be impractical to ban guns in America - there are too many of them now.

I say let one country do it their way and we'll do it ours. Americans know American culture best.