Safely, Privately, SECURELY remote desktop with online meeting! Support this idea!

[onyxwolf]

Before reading this post see my discussion here (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=9093678#post9093678) pertaining to the security of Empathy's 2.28 Share My Desktop Thread.

I know this post is a little lengthy but take a min and read it please!

Its an old story. Trying to figure out how to better help new Ubuntu users. One possible way thats revolutionizing the IT support industry is web-meeting support (like WebEx). A currently free solution is the Adobe powered Acrobat.com ConnectNow. A free account gets you a meeting room with max of two additional attendees, but it allows for screen sharing and surrendering control of your mouse to host or another attendee so an experienced, or tech savvy person can drive. Currently screen sharing is only supported through Windows. This is a thread to get Acrobat.com to add full support for Ubuntu and Linux in general.

So why bother with remote desktop support through a provider such as Acrobat.com?

First and foremost, ease of use. Try to get a newbie to figure out how to get remote desktop through VNC on Ubuntu working, I dare you! It might work if he / she is tech savvy, but what about the person supporting them? How much of their time do you eat up by not only having to instruct the supportee to get that end working, but getting your end working as well. An interesting way that OS X has gone is by using reverse connections through an IM. I don't know much about that but I do know that, but I think this may have questionable privacy and security issues (see fourth), and with so many options for every Linux system, this may be hard to implement across separate platforms and WM and so on.

Which brings me to my second, the possibility of true cross platform support. What if you are at work on a Windows machine and are browsing the furoms, to see someone just posted an Ubuntu problem that would take you your entire break to explain by typing, but only a couple minutes to do yourself. Sign into your ConnectNow meeting room, send a private message with its URL and he sees it and joins *BAM* two minutes to connect, two minutes to resolve, and you still have 11 minutes to browse before getting back to work. (Maybe ask the person recieving the assistance to post a quick overview of what you did on his post for sharing the answer). And all of this from a Windows machine.

Third, reliability and support. Trusting a company as robust as Adobe, which I think we can all agree does not have the careless (or is it could care less) attitude like Microsoft does, is not a bad thing. This is especially true when you are relying on something to just work when someone else needs our support. Instead of having to troubleshoot connection problems and so on, we can concentrate on the issue that brought the need for the desktop support. They gave us Flash you have to give them mad props for that! They have had the attitude that the ability to read and watch should be free, for a long time! Maybe not open source but trustworthy non-the-less.

Finally, and probably most importantly, Privacy and Security! HTTPS (for those of you who don't really know what that is, thats HTTP over SSL. SSL is a very secure encryption method that is the standard for safe internet sessions like when you use your CC through PayPal), and using someone elses servers. No giving your public IP addr to a stranger or letting a stranger have file transfer ability to your system without your approving the files. Enough said!!!

If you like this idea go to:

https://na5.brightidea.com/ct/ct_a_view_idea.bix?c=8FBBEA8F-D8E6-4E34-A7C1-7C74FB3B4EFA&idea_id=EC5BA2A3-DB31-4A8C-98C9-469BFD7BC094

Click on the up arrow labeled "Promote" and let Acrobat.com know it!!! (You have to register with brightidea, but it takes less than a minute and an email address to do so!)

[onyxwolf]

Keep bumping this thread, until we have that support!!!

[onyxwolf]

Repeat post!

[falconindy]

So lemme get this straight:

Adobe = To be trusted
Microsoft = Not to be trusted
Random internet stranger = To be trusted

What's the logic in this?

[dearingj]

Voted up :)

[onyxwolf]

To quote myself:


Trusting a company as robust as Adobe, which I think we can all agree does not have the careless (or is it could care less) attitude like Microsoft does, is not a bad thing. This is especially true when you are relying on something to just work when someone else needs our support.

Sorry you're right, maybe my stab at the MS devil was out of place. Maybe my holding Adobe, a company that builds proprietary software that natively supports Ubuntu was wrong. But is there anything I said that is not TECHNICALLY TRUE?

[falconindy]

Sorry you're right, maybe my stab at the MS devil was out of place. Maybe my holding Adobe, a company that builds proprietary software that natively supports Ubuntu was wrong. But is there anything I said that is not TECHNICALLY TRUE?You mother must have told you to accept candy from strangers. No, I don't agree with you.

If you want to get technical, then sure. Let's do just that. Adobe inherited Macromedia in 2005, and continued the tradition of poorly supporting the flash plugin for Linux (not Ubuntu). In addition, they provide Acrobat Reader and a plugin for Air. None of these are open sourced (nor will they ever be), which is the cornerstone of the Linux world. If Adobe had any inclination to:

* Fix Flash for Linux
* Release a real product for Linux (Photoshop, InDesign, Illustrator, Lightroom...)
* Make any of their software open source

Then I might have a different opinion. As it stands, Adobe isn't in the Linux world by choice.

And, you still expect people to trust each other over the internet. Consider the following...

Stuck-like-chuck: "...so that's my problem. I'm not sure what to do."
Totally-Not-evil-helper: "Ok, sure I can fix that. Just open <this file> as root so I can make the necessary changes"
Stuck-like-chuck: "Alright... " <tappity tappity> "...hey wait!"

And before you know it, poor chuck's hard drive has been erased because his helper has keyboard control and root permissions to do whatever the frick he wants.

[onyxwolf]

Or maybe, if you search all my threads you'll not find a posting where I put down other ideas because I'm a "Random internet stranger". You WILL find all my postings are constructive questions, input, or answers. So which is more logical, trusting someone with a proven best effort track record. Or someone who randomly trashes constructive posters? ;)

[onyxwolf]

No, the average person wouldn't let someone randomly root or sudo into their system. I think thats the first strong warning whoever hooks someone on any Linux system should warn about is root and sudo access. I think most people would question what they where doing before putting in that password. Don't you? Oh no because your one of those jerks that thinks everyone who doesn't currently use Linux our dumb naive little worms huh? So which script are you going to use on which poor grandma's computer to make yourself feel better tonight?

BTW my flash player works great.

P.S. I am sorry for the negativeness above. I was in an ER lobby for last 2 days (American Community / Trauma 1 hospital), but they finally got my sister a bed, so I finally went home and got some sleep. Due to my fatigue I did not realize falconindy was commenting on
browsing the furoms, to see someone just posted an Ubuntu problem that would take you your entire break to explain by typing, but only a couple minutes to do yourself. Sign into your ConnectNow meeting room, send a private message with its URL and he sees it and joins when he said,
So lemme get this straight:

Adobe = To be trusted
Microsoft = Not to be trusted
Random internet stranger = To be trusted

What's the logic in this?
I felt this to be more of an attack, and wrongfully attacked back. I stick by my comment about trusting Adobe. I am basing this off customer and software support. I never said MS was not to be trusted, just that they could care less! (Though I don't personally trust a single update they give). The last line was what I misinterpreted as an attack, but he was saying random internet stranger = the expert on browsing the forum I was talking about. This was a valid point, but I do want to add a point, I claim it as safe because people cannot randomly put files on the computer they are working on, so the only way someone could do something malicious is with sudo / root access please see my post below about this. I do apologize to falconindy for the attack.

[falconindy]

Chill. I'm not "trashing constructive posters". I've provided a valid counter claim and you're dismissing it because I've brought up a possible flaw in your own idea. You've advertised this as being "safe and secure". I believe it is neither of these.

Your idea goes beyond offering your own services. Your proposition is to open a sort of pipeline for people to be able to help each other interactively on an adhoc basis. If you want to legitimately help others, cool. My point is that you can't control what other people can and will maliciously do.

[falconindy]

No, the average person wouldn't let someone randomly root or sudo into their system. I think thats the first strong warning whoever hooks someone on any Linux system should warn about is root and sudo access. I think most people would question what they where doing before putting in that password. Don't you? Oh no because your one of those jerks that thinks everyone who doesn't currently use Linux our dumb naive little worms huh? So which script are you going to use on which poor grandmas computer to make yourself feel better tonight?

BTW my flash player works great.
Who's trashing who?

[onyxwolf]

Chill. I'm not "trashing constructive posters". I've provided a valid counter claim and you're dismissing it because I've brought up a possible flaw in your own idea. You've advertised this as being "safe and secure". I believe it is neither of these.

Your idea goes beyond offering your own services. Your proposition is to open a sort of pipeline for people to be able to help each other interactively on an adhoc basis. If you want to legitimately help others, cool. My point is that you can't control what other people can and will maliciously do.

Your right, my apologies. I'm tired and the only reason I've had this kind of time is because I'm stuck in an ER for the second day in a row and am extremely tired and cranky. Yes your right, if a newbie does not understand the concepts of root or even root vs sudo it could be dangerous. I think that is the kind of awareness that as we try to spread the joy of Ubuntu, we also make sure they are aware of that. The script comment was soulless and uncalled for, again my apologies. I guess your initial post felt more like an attack. So I got defensive and it escalated.

[onyxwolf]

But, I think that the chances of someone doing that to you from this forum is worse than you getting jumped on the street. Don't you? Crap happens, but generally we're here to help.

[cariboo]

Please don't create multiple threads on the same subject, I have merged your two threads.

[onyxwolf]

*Bump*

Despite my disagreement with falconindy, at least he took a second to read the post, and thank you for the promote on the idea dearingj.

[pwnst*r]

No, the average person wouldn't let someone randomly root or sudo into their system. I think thats the first strong warning whoever hooks someone on any Linux system should warn about is root and sudo access. I think most people would question what they where doing before putting in that password. Don't you? Oh no because your one of those jerks that thinks everyone who doesn't currently use Linux our dumb naive little worms huh? So which script are you going to use on which poor grandma's computer to make yourself feel better tonight?

BTW my flash player works great.

P.S. I am sorry for the negativeness above. I was in an ER lobby for last 2 days (American Community / Trauma 1 hospital), but they finally got my sister a bed, so I finally went home and got some sleep. Due to my fatigue I did not realize falconindy was commenting on when he said,
I felt this to be more of an attack, and wrongfully attacked back. I stick by my comment about trusting Adobe. I am basing this off customer and software support. I never said MS was not to be trusted, just that they could care less! (Though I don't personally trust a single update they give). The last line was what I misinterpreted as an attack, but he was saying random internet stranger = the expert on browsing the forum I was talking about. This was a valid point, but I do want to add a point, I claim it as safe because people cannot randomly put files on the computer they are working on, so the only way someone could do something malicious is with sudo / root access please see my post below about this. I do apologize to falconindy for the attack.

lol, wow.

[matthew]

The exchange that has taken place in this thread is a perfect example of what I am addressing in the new sticky. Please read it before this thread progresses to avoid problems.

[onyxwolf]

I read your sticky and agree whole-heartedly. I am sorry for the way I handled it. I would also PM falconindy my apologies but he does not allow PMs.

[castrojo]

First and foremost, ease of use. Try to get a newbie to figure out how to get remote desktop through VNC on Ubuntu working, I dare you! It might work if he / she is tech savvy, but what about the person supporting them? How much of their time do you eat up by not only having to instruct the supportee to get that end working, but getting your end working as well. An interesting way that OS X has gone is by using reverse connections through an IM.

We've had this in the default install since Karmic, in Empathy right click on a person and click "Share my desktop".

Not multi-user but it definitely handles the one-on-one support case.

[onyxwolf]

That would be excellent if two things-- Does this method require any configuration of routers? Is it secure (IE does it encrypt in any way)?

If the answers are no and yes respectively, then I will use this in a heartbeat!

(A side note: I did a Distro Upgrade to Karmic and it looks like that does not automatically install Empathy, so one may need to install it.)

[onyxwolf]

Another important question, How does it work (because its obviously not going to go through google talk to share the desktop!)?

[onyxwolf]

I started a new thread to discuss the security of Empathy's Desktop Sharing. Its at http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=9093678#post9093678 (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=9093678#post9093678).

If it is indeed secure, then that will be best case desktop sharing (I've tried it and it works great except I don't know if its secure). I will mark this solved and edit my initial post to "USE EMPATHY SHARE DESKTOP INSTEAD!!!" If we can determine it is.