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arnab_das
February 1st, 2010, 12:59 PM
Well everyone's talking about HTML 5, I chanced upon a site which actually has HTML 5, this is a link to a video which actually doesnt use Adobe Flash at all! awesome stuff, this is the future.

http://html5demos.com/video

question: assuming u have seen the video, do u think this is the future? or do u think we still have to live with adobe flash for sometime now?

Psumi
February 1st, 2010, 01:01 PM
Sites will still use flash for some time, especially sites like newgrounds.com, homestarrunner.com, etc.

They need flash due to its interactivity and ability to have easter eggs.

Newgrounds needs it for its audio player for one.

homestarrunner.com needs it for menus/splash page/easter eggs/etc.

Tibuda
February 1st, 2010, 01:03 PM
youtube is already adopting it, but it only works with chrome and safari. no firefox or opera.

http://www.youtube.com/html5

I think, yes, this is the future for videos, but we still could use flash for games.

Psumi
February 1st, 2010, 01:10 PM
youtube is already adopting it, but it only works with chrome and safari. no firefox or opera.

http://www.youtube.com/html5

I think, yes, this is the future for videos, but we still could use flash for games.

Youtube uses it with h.264 as well, which linux doesn't really like.

Lol, I have firefox, so I can't join their html5 beta. :D

arnab_das
February 1st, 2010, 01:11 PM
just another piece of info. html 5 has the backings of google and apple.


The HTML5 editors are Ian Hickson of Google, Inc. and David Hyatt of Apple, Inc.

reference : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTML5


whenever a Mac crashes, more often than not, it's because of Flash (...) No one will be using Flash. The world is moving to HTML5. - Steve Jobs

reference: http://news.cnet.com/8301-17852_3-10444817-71.html

I think HTML 5 is poised to be something big.

arnab_das
February 1st, 2010, 01:23 PM
Youtube uses it with h.264 as well, which linux doesn't really like.

Lol, I have firefox, so I can't join their html5 beta. :D

+1 to that. just tried it out, the video stops and the audio keeps on playing. works with chrome browser.

Psumi
February 1st, 2010, 01:27 PM
+1 to that. just tried it out, the video stops and the audio keeps on playing. works with chrome browser.

Well, their html5 page says firefox is not supported, so where's the join button? I can't see it.

The join the beta link at the bottom just takes me back to the html5 page, so nothing happens.

arnab_das
February 1st, 2010, 01:29 PM
Well, their html5 page says firefox is not supported, so where's the join button? I can't see it.

The join the beta link at the bottom just takes me back to the html5 page, so nothing happens.

i use google chrome...hence :) u could give chrome a try (just for trying out this beta) and later remove it.

Psumi
February 1st, 2010, 01:31 PM
i use google chrome...hence :) u could give chrome a try (just for trying out this beta) and later remove it.

Until SRWare Iron has a fancy deb, I will not be using chrome.

jflaker
February 1st, 2010, 01:33 PM
youtube is already adopting it, but it only works with chrome and safari. no firefox or opera.

http://www.youtube.com/html5

I think, yes, this is the future for videos, but we still could use flash for games.

Firefox supports HTML5...http://html5demos.com/

Tibuda
February 1st, 2010, 01:39 PM
Firefox supports HTML5...http://html5demos.com/

I know this, but it does not support the video codec used by Youtube. See Psumi post.

Psumi
February 1st, 2010, 02:05 PM
Just tried chromium daily build on an html5 video on youtube.

unfortunately, it never loaded the video, so... something must be up. *back to firefox*

arnab_das
February 1st, 2010, 02:30 PM
Just tried chromium daily build on an html5 video on youtube.

unfortunately, it never loaded the video, so... something must be up. *back to firefox*

it does work, the video does load but after a looooooooong time :)

Psumi
February 1st, 2010, 02:39 PM
it does work, the video does load but after a looooooooong time :)

Even on 5 MB cable Internet? That shouldn't be.

haydoni
February 1st, 2010, 03:00 PM
It seems an improvement on flash. Mainly since it "loads" the whole video from the beginning (I'm not sure what effect this has with long videos), so you can skip forward from the beginning, and back, without erasing the already loaded video (as flash, frustratingly, does).

arnab_das
February 1st, 2010, 03:05 PM
well it did work for me but the video got stuck while the audio kept on playing. wondering how this thing works on windows though. anyone tried it with virtualbox yet?

ssam
February 1st, 2010, 03:30 PM
html 5 video is good, but really it needs to be ogg
see: http://www.0xdeadbeef.com/weblog/2010/01/html5-video-and-h-264-what-history-tells-us-and-why-were-standing-with-the-web/

email your favourite websites now :-)

madnessjack
February 1st, 2010, 03:41 PM
HTML5 sucks

What's it playing at?

The w3c need to stop messing around and start again. HTML was made for FORMATTED TEXT. Not stupid animation or application frameworks!

Skripka
February 1st, 2010, 03:44 PM
Just tried chromium daily build on an html5 video on youtube.

unfortunately, it never loaded the video, so... something must be up. *back to firefox*

HTML5 video works just fine on the latest Chrome-dev build.

Less CPU usage than Flash, but no fullscreen ability.

juancarlospaco
February 1st, 2010, 04:35 PM
I think, yes, this is the future for videos, but we still could use flash for games.

Native Client: (http://code.google.com/p/nativeclient/)

Native Client is an open-source technology for running native code in web applications, with the goal of maintaining the browser neutrality, OS portability, and safety that people expect from web apps.
Native Client runs on Windows, Vista, Mac OS X, or Linux.


http://nativeclient.googlecode.com/svn/data/site/quake-200.png



For 3D you have 3DnoPlugins (http://www.thoro.de/page/3dnp-introduction-en)


BTW coding web pages without errors is really needed too...

Mr. Picklesworth
February 1st, 2010, 04:44 PM
HTML5 sucks

What's it playing at?

The w3c need to stop messing around and start again. HTML was made for FORMATTED TEXT. Not stupid animation or application frameworks!

What brings you to say that? Personally, I find that this has been scaling quite well, and legacy browsers (eg: Links2 and Internet Explorer 6) can still understand the new stuff to a reasonable extent. The HTML spec is closer to its roots with version 5 than it's been, I think. Instead of arbitrary formatting-specific things like H1-H6, div and span, we have meaningful tags to complement them such as article, header, footer, article, section, aside and time. Now a search engine can parse a video or an audio tag and say with utmost precision that there's a video there. That was not possible before. FlashBlock? Now you have VideoBlock.

Now, CSS on the other hand, is problematic and needs some re-imagining. That it is sensitive to the position of elements in an HTML document is trouble. Oh, and the way browsers apply arbitrary defaults that are impossible to predict (thus screwing up my pages unless I waste bandwidth with a similarly arbitrary reset.css) is pretty annoying, too. CSS3 at least has some pretty toys, though :)

Canvas is a bit weird, but really the gist of that is in the DOM and Javascript. Javascript is newer than the rest there. I guess it's kind of like a native ActionScript that doesn't need a proprietary player.

People complaining about HTML5 video being CPU intensive are crazy. It may be at the moment in some browsers, but the beauty of it is this can actually be fixed by using the native mechanisms for accelerated video playback. We aren't at the mercy of Adobe (a conglomeration of imbeciles, except some of the people working on Photoshop) to make the web usable.

whiskeylover
February 1st, 2010, 04:50 PM
HTML5 sucks

What's it playing at?

The w3c need to stop messing around and start again. HTML was made for FORMATTED TEXT. Not stupid animation or application frameworks!

Lets get rid of FF, chrome, etc. and lets all use lynx :)

mamamia88
February 1st, 2010, 04:53 PM
i personally can't wait for flash to die a horrible death

Tibuda
February 1st, 2010, 04:57 PM
HTML5 sucks

What's it playing at?

The w3c need to stop messing around and start again. HTML was made for FORMATTED TEXT. Not stupid animation or application frameworks!
Yeah, let's get rid of <img> tag too.

HTML5 itself won't render the video. It will only call the right codec (if supported by the browser) just like the <img> tag does.



Native Client: (http://code.google.com/p/nativeclient/)
that's cool

madnessjack
February 1st, 2010, 04:59 PM
Lets get rid of FF, chrome, etc. and lets all use lynx :)
Literally nothing would make me happier :D


What brings you to say that? ...
I think HTML is a horrible way of coding applications and complicated content-rich websites. I'm barely happy using it to display images! There should be some-other XML standard for defining layout and navigation, and something COMPLETELY different for building application front-ends (although I believe Firefox's chrome does this).

EDIT: @danielrmt (http://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=702969) you beat me to the img point! :P

LightB
February 1st, 2010, 05:07 PM
Couldn't firefox just get a 3rd party extension to support h.264?

Skripka
February 1st, 2010, 05:14 PM
i personally can't wait for flash to die a horrible death

You'll be waiting a long while.

Mr. Picklesworth
February 1st, 2010, 05:33 PM
I think HTML is a horrible way of coding applications and complicated content-rich websites. I'm barely happy using it to display images! There should be some-other XML standard for defining layout and navigation, and something COMPLETELY different for building application front-ends (although I believe Firefox's chrome does this).

You aren't using HTML5 to code the application, though. You're using stuff like JQuery (http://jquery.org). HTML5 provides a UI skeleton, much like Glade or QT Designer.
In a sense, I think the situation is pretty close to what you describe; the work is done in Javascript, then the rendering is handled through the existing framework which happens to be really flexible and really good at rendering stuff.

Now I'm not a huge fan of web apps either (unless it's done elegantly, like in WebOS), but I think the technology is really quite sound.

Tibuda
February 1st, 2010, 05:34 PM
Couldn't firefox just get a 3rd party extension to support h.264?

This link says no (http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1067503), but I don't really trust everything I find on the Internet.

deadalus.globalnode
February 1st, 2010, 05:38 PM
whenever a Mac crashes, more often than not, it's because of Flash (...) No one will be using Flash. The world is moving to HTML5. - Steve Jobs
reference: http://news.cnet.com/8301-17852_3-10444817-71.html


Great, just as long as it doesn't cause more problems. :)

Colonel Kilkenny
February 1st, 2010, 05:44 PM
Chromium doesn't play h264 because it must be licensed and Google cannot license it for Chromium.

madnessjack
February 1st, 2010, 05:53 PM
In a sense, I think the situation is pretty close to what you describe; the work is done in Javascript, then the rendering is handled through the existing framework which happens to be really flexible and really good at rendering stuff.


Now I'm not a huge fan of web apps either (unless it's done elegantly, like in WebOS), but I think the technology is really quite sound.
It's not though is it! I mean yeah, meebo and Facebook and Google (thinking about Wave) pull it off sound, but it can't be fun. HTML was made so that we could bold certain words or make italic bits of text. It wasn't designed to be a window manager or application framework.

I see HTML much like how people today use BBCode. We should've kept it simple and developed something else for this other stuff.

hugmenot
February 1st, 2010, 08:52 PM
For me Chromium from ppa:chromium-daily/ppa plays H.264 content and also the HTML5 video examples on other sites work.Only the YouTube demo doesn’t. It just displays a spinning logo.

And there’s another problem that when the native controls are enable they are stuck in the middle, and the video loops around that point.

No very stable yet, I guess.