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View Full Version : Wisdom can be shared, but does knowledge alienate us?



murderslastcrow
January 31st, 2010, 11:50 PM
I'm your regular nonchalant American most of the time, but I'm a slave to consideration. Considering things from various angles and perspectives is something I get addicted to, for reasons I can't explain.

When I get bored, instead of reading fiction, I often start to research obscure or complicated subjects just for the sake of learning and challenging myself. I love education, especially in the age of the internet where you have such abundant resources brought to you with a few simple keystrokes.

Of course, this isn't something I do exclusively, it's just a fun habit I like to get involved with, since it feels like it's important to take these considerations. As if it's enlightening somehow.

But I find that, when I'm with my friends, who are fairly intelligent, even when we're in a talking mood, at times the wisdom is all we can share with each other, and the abundance of knowledge is impossible to communicate, even in minute summary.

I love to just have fun and clear my head, of course, but sometimes I feel like I've learned so much on a continual basis that my knowledge begins to alienate me.

I figure since not all Ubuntu users are average thinkers, since not all of us have found Ubuntu out of the luck of buying an Ubuntu computer or having it installed for us, more people here would sort of understand my plight.

I'm kinda' like a woman, in that thoughts circle through my mind a lot if I can't express them in some way (to a journal, person, or through art). So I guess that's the only reason why being able to share information with people is something I'm so hellbent on doing.

Any good remedies for this? Should I just start blogging away my knowledge in order to find better ways to summarize and emphasize it? Does anyone else have this problem, or consider it a problem? XD

Kai69
February 1st, 2010, 12:01 AM
Please come in lie on the couch and tell me what your thinking ....:lolflag:

No seriously I know what you mean you start to talk to your friend and you see the glazed expression on their face, Talk about their favorite football team and you cant shut them up.:p

JDShu
February 1st, 2010, 12:20 AM
This might be a good opportunity for you to work on your delivery :D

When you can talk about things that people usually find boring in an engaging way, then you have won!

murderslastcrow
February 1st, 2010, 12:27 AM
Exactly. Everyone knows way too much about SOMETHING. The thing is, I actually love to hear new information about stuff I could previously have cared less about. XD

I'm the kinda' person who, when someone asks me through IM if I know anything about "insert term here," I literally look it up within the next 10 seconds and read a summary of it so I can tell them, "yes, it's this right?" And have a better conversation about it.

I could probably get a job in researching.

[omitted a large section regarding religion and its personal role in my recent line of thought] Since that's against the rules, I'll just say that I've been looking at many different belief systems and various explanations of humanity.

I think the reason why I care so much is because I see so much unnecessary distress and conflict in the world today. I feel like I can help out more the more I know.

But yeah, I guess I have my head in the clouds a good 1/3 of the time now, and it was more like 2/3 about a year ago due to a lot of deaths in my close group of friends and family. I have always been deeply thoughtful of the things least understood.

I guess it's because I believe that truth, no matter how disgusting or pleasant it is, frees you, and to understand what you really, truly feel about morality, humanity, and the role you play in the world around you, empowers you as a person.

This is part of why free software is so important to me, since it is under my control. It empowers and frees you as a person. I don't want to say people are ignorant for not 'realizing this', since some people use a computer so little that it really DOESN'T matter as much to them.

Anyway, enough blabbing. XD Just trying to expand on your statement and it overflowed a bit. Wall of text.

audiomick
February 1st, 2010, 12:28 AM
I think I know what you mean. Some people look and think, others just barge through. The one true road is a balance somewhere in between. I am a thinker, sometimes too much.;)

murderslastcrow
February 1st, 2010, 12:36 AM
I think the key to understanding is not to preconceive the world around you.

Many people suggest that you should only believe what you can see, and nothing else. But they fail to realize the reason that magicians are at all convincing is due to manipulating these 'realists'.

True realism is to recognize there are some things you can't understand with your senses alone, and to value logic over hopeful presumption.

Kai69
February 1st, 2010, 12:58 AM
There are a lot of people out there that dont want to learn and have no inclination to do so . Look at what information we are bombarded with each day, If you look at twitter for instance look at the things people are more interested in talking about its like celeb crap or what theyve had for lunch have people really turned into idiots.
I have 4 kids and I love seeing them learn One of my kids has verbal dyspraxia and couldnt talk until he was 6 and it upsets me when he has learned something and no one wants to listen its like it was when people couldnt understand what he was saying they used to blank him or just nod it breaks my heart ..

samh785
February 1st, 2010, 01:33 AM
Have you read any of Noam Chomsky's works?

Old_Grey_Wolf
February 1st, 2010, 02:05 AM
Wisdom allows us to use the best means for attaining the best ends. Knowledge only tell us how a given action will result in an effect. Knowledge does not tell us the right action to choose.

Depending on your definition of Wisdom and Knowledge, you may disagree with that.

I find it easier to teach Knowledge rather than Wisdom.

audiomick
February 1st, 2010, 02:09 AM
Wisdom allows us to use the best means for attaining the best ends. Knowledge only tell us how a given action will result in an effect. Knowledge does not tell us the right action to choose.

Depending on your definition of Wisdom and Knowledge, you may disagree with that.

I find it easier to teach Knowledge rather than Wisdom.

And it is possible to be wise without a great deal of knowledge, and definitely possible to know a lot and have no wisdom.

murderslastcrow
February 1st, 2010, 02:09 AM
That really is sad to see, the apathetic nod to a child exploring conversation.

A good example is a conversation I had a couple days back. I told my friend, "sometimes I use words to extravagance." They asked what I meant, so I said, "it means, sometimes I use more words than necessary to explain my ideas."

They told me, "there has to be an easier way to say that."

So really, the importance doesn't always lie in what you talk about, but that you talk about something that inspires you and compells you to want to explain yourself better, and get better with language. Part of that is, naturally, learning to convey thoughts to less talkative people. That's a good core skill for a leader, to quickly get to the knitty gritty with time to spare.

But yeah, I read some of Chomsky's stuff in a few psychology classes, but I've always wanted to learn more. Thanks for the reference.

audiomick
February 1st, 2010, 02:11 AM
...learning to convey thoughts to less talkative people.

No, to poor listeners. Less talkative people are often very good listeners.

samh785
February 1st, 2010, 02:49 AM
But yeah, I read some of Chomsky's stuff in a few psychology classes, but I've always wanted to learn more. Thanks for the reference.
His contributions to the field of linguistics are absolutely amazing, but what really amazes me are his political/social views. Read 'Manufacturing Consent'. Blew my mind.

murderslastcrow
February 1st, 2010, 03:12 AM
I actually have Hegemony or Survival in my collection, been meaning to read it.

Manufacturing consent seems to have a broader subject matter, though, so I may start with that one. And yes, I agree, poor listeners.

samh785
February 1st, 2010, 03:38 AM
I actually have Hegemony or Survival in my collection, been meaning to read it.

:D I'm reading that one as I speak.

murderslastcrow
February 1st, 2010, 03:41 AM
I would discuss Marxism a bit, but I think people might misconstrew the conversation as political, so I'm afraid to take this down those trails.

It's interesting that so much modern religion and political systems seem to have evolved from these new ideologies themselves.

Too bad that whole Dark Age thing happened.

73ckn797
February 1st, 2010, 03:47 AM
I find it easier to teach Knowledge rather than Wisdom.
Wisdom is derived from our knowledge. Knowing what to do with what we know and at the right time to implement such knowledge.

audiomick
February 1st, 2010, 03:56 AM
Wisdom is derived from our knowledge. Knowing what to do with what we know and at the right time to implement such knowledge.

I would put that slightly differently:
"Wisdom is knowing what to do with what we know and at the right time to implement such knowledge"

murderslastcrow
February 1st, 2010, 05:21 AM
Through this we can infer that comedians are wise men.

audiomick
February 1st, 2010, 05:22 AM
Through this we can infer that comedians are wise men.

Really good ones: often.

Mornedhel
February 1st, 2010, 05:53 AM
I'm the kinda' person who, when someone asks me through IM if I know anything about "insert term here," I literally look it up within the next 10 seconds and read a summary of it so I can tell them, "yes, it's this right?" And have a better conversation about it.

I could probably get a job in researching.

That's not quite enough for researching (at least in most scientific domains). Every researcher reads a lot of new information, it's part of the job description. You need to be able to understand it; that comes from experience in the field, and about every researcher also has that.

What really sets good researchers apart is their creativity. You can't write a paper exclusively on existing data, or rephrasing another idea already published. You need to present something *new*. This is the hardest part: coming up with something no one else, in the entire world, has come up with. Or at least publishing your paper before them.

cmay
February 1st, 2010, 06:24 AM
the way I see it wisdom is something that you know from experience and knowledge is something you read somewhere that could be either what others thinks or it could be some of their knowledge they pass on. you dont actually know anyting for sure before you tried it yourself.

I dont think that being wise and being knowledgable needs to conflict . however you can end up being so booksmart that others say "hey he is intelligent " but you dont have any freinds because your are too smart for most people. I known one that was like that once.

Chris Edgell
February 1st, 2010, 06:44 AM
Considering things from various angles and perspectives is something I am addicted to. Sometimes I feel like I've learned so much...that my knowledge begins to alienate me. My thoughts circle through my mind a lot. I need to express them in some way, so I guess that's the reason why being able to share information with people is something I'm so hellbent on doing.

I beg you forgive me for taking the liberty of getting at the essence of your message.

There have been quite a few good responses here; especially about the difference between wisdom and knowledge. Sometimes I have wondered if Alex Trebec is a big boor at a party. You see, it depends how you use what you have learned.

I'm thinking that you are searching for meaning and that all this knowledge hasn't satisfied your mind in any real good way it just "goes around in your mind" and seeks an outlet. You implied that you can't keep a journal, but try again. You'll learn to think through a lot of stuff...you may learn to edit yourself and get down to "brass tacks" as my dad used to say. It may crystallize your thoughts AND your thinking, rereading what you've said and getting to what you're trying to say.

I'd like to have it sink into your mind that we can communicate truly without communicating exhaustively. If you can find peace of mind you can sit knowing 70 times what someone else knows and if you love them it won't matter much...like if you have a child.

As far as a peer group, you must see if you can find one or two intimates who know and understand you. I have felt great aloneness a lot, but it drives me to get out there and BE KNOWN; to reveal myself truly and see if I find understanding once I get something of significance out there (well, and in my case it has often been dredging up stuff from the deep). And the parts that can't seem to be known by anyone I know...well that's what God is for. And actually, if you feel out of touch with God...that's what JC is for. Very best wishes to you!

murderslastcrow
February 1st, 2010, 07:06 AM
Oh yes, I certainly don't think that the only way to satisfy your expressive needs lies in exhaustive conversation. Society is too diverse to focus on every standpoint. I'm sure that Alex Trebec has enough tact to deal with 'common people'.

In fact, the most elevating moments with my friends and associates often comes from a light and dissociative view on our own knowledge and the circumstances of the world we live in. Basically to enjoy life, because you realize you can only do so much for the collective.

The primary focus of my opening statement was the feeling you get when you know so much that you feel responsible over what you've learned. Not exactly about how it conflicts with casual conversation (in many cases I avoid getting into deep conversations out of chivalry, and leave them for private encounters).

The feeling that you must act on new knowledge. This is a good thing, as it motivates us to act on our ambitions, to fulfill ourselves as human beings. Individualism is born from knowledge.

I guess I just see too much negligence in the world around me. It makes me appreciate so much more that we have an unregulated, pure, unbiased form of information, in the form of the internet. It really is a blessing.

Unlike television, which was made for the purpose understanding and sharing information globally, and became a tool of advertising and shallow entertainment, the internet is whatever you choose it to be. It's a beautiful thing.

P.S. I'd like to note that I think most people in the civilized world are much more intellectual and introspective than I'm letting on, and it's no one's business to judge whether someone is thoughtful or shallow. This is preconception, an illusion.

cmay
February 1st, 2010, 07:11 AM
on a more personal note. When I was a kid I started very early absorbing knowledge. I was sort of a bookworm and did not care about the kind of things others my age did. I spend much time absorbing knoweldge from books trying to get the know the umtimate truth regarding spiritual matters.

once I gained enough life experience to judge from that instead I let go of many tthings in the realms of psykology and sprititual searching. I had what I needed from own experinece and did not need to read about it in a book . now I find the boks about psykology to be most of all boring and selfabsorbed somehow. lots of it seems to me to be written by people who read a lot and experience nothing themself.

knowledge about any subject for the sake of knowledge was my motto until I found that to know one thing for sure and value this as is because it was usefull became a later motto of mine when I got older.

not that its wrong in anyway to be curious and finding out things because its exiting . that must be somewhere what healthy to do so.

murderslastcrow
February 1st, 2010, 07:30 AM
Cmay, I had a similar upbringing and childhood, so I can relate to your feelings on truth. I'm very glad you've all given your opinion on this. :3 It has alleviated a lot of my doubts, and reinforced my perception of the role knowledge plays in our lives.

The truth is that, the ideas that spurred this conversation are probably not easily discussed in a forum like this. It's nice to know what other Ubuntu users are thinking, though.

In a way, the majority of the forum users are pioneers of thought. The common man learning the importance of freedom in something so complex and hard to understand as computer software. Not that all of us do, or should. XD

In fact, open source and the internet both give me hope for what mankind can achieve in physical realms. The Cathedral and the Bazaar idea.

But that kinda' leads into the idea that GNU/Linux is Marxism in practice, blah blah blah, don't wanna' get into that. Just want to thank those of you who've shared your insights despite this being an unusual thread. :D